There is zero evidence of large scale voter fraud and there are good checks and audits in place to catch any.
12 court cases thrown out for lack of evidence. No evidence has been provided. None, Nada. Zilch
Ironic really, his base think he loves his country.
Well, he does, and so do they. Problem is, they love it the way it was in 1955 and they're struggling to adjust to the 1990s.
The Republican party thinks politics is a fight to gain power, rather than a system for governing a country.
Exactly. Most of the Republican politicians know perfectly well that Biden won by a solid margin, but they are politically incentivized to not admit it because their voters would not accept capitulation, they want to see a fight to the bitter end.
I'm sure we can expect a feeding frenzy 'tip of the iceberg' hysteria when inevitably a single dodgy mail in vote turns up
Trump's fund raising drive will be given a shot in the arm at that point
'Sorry cleetus, I know you've been putting some money aside to have that cyst removed from the back of your head but we'll just have to send it to our president - he needs it'
The number of mail-in ballots used in this election has been to my knowledge unprecedented in the US, and dare I say in any other civilised country?
Possibly. But it’s an “unprecedented” situation having such a massive election in the midst of a pandemic. The Democrat party encouraged mail in voting. I think that was the responsible thing to do in this case. The GOP (or Trump or a combination) encouraged in-person voting. Hence red mirage, then blue shift.
I’m willing to bet that were good there a GE here or anywhere else in Europe which had the kind of spread of COVID that America is experiencing right now, there would also be an “unprecedented” amount of postal/proxy voting. What wouldn’t be unprecedented would be right wing parties whinging about possible voter fraud. For such a statistically minute problem in western liberal democracy elections, right wingers do seem obsessed with it. We all know why...
12 court cases thrown out for lack of evidence.
And sadly his cult devotees just see that as proof of the Deep State conspiracy against him.
"Who cares what some libtard court says, here's a photo of a box saying "Votes For Trump" being burned by librul satanists. That's clear undeniable proof" 🙄
Arizona starting to get called for Biden
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1326729456023703552?s=19
Problem is, they love it the way it was in 1955 and they’re struggling to adjust to the 1990s.
Plaid? They’re scared of plaid?
And sadly his cult devotees just see that as proof of the Deep State conspiracy against him.
That seems to also be the method/message being encouraged by so many around Trump. Play to the conspiracies. Even if they don't stick legally (or morally...), his supporters will see smoke.
“Who cares what some libtard court says,
The judges aren't libtards, they're something much worse = RINOs! They were appointed by Republicans, but they're Republicans In Name Only!!!
It's a powerful tactic. You see the same thing used by the anti-vax, 5G, flat earth conspiracies:
If you question them then you are a sheep. If you bring evidence then you are a disinformation agent working for the deep state to silence them. If experts/authorities offer evidence then it is proof they are trying to hide something.
It's very hard to reach someone in that mindset.
Im convinced that Trump really does believe the Dems are cheating. Because if he were in their situation that's exactly what he would do.
Don’t forget Trump started bleating about electoral fraud the moment the polls started turning against him. He has been thinking about doing this for months. The only reason it has any traction at all is because he keeps on saying it. Remember “the bigger the lie the more people believe it.”
Fox News stating 'if the left win the two seats in Georgia in January, bye-bye America. We won't even have a national anthem'.
I thought people were saying Murdoch was pulling away from Trump/the right a bit?
Wow, I thought we had a problem with the media here.
I thought people were saying Murdoch was pulling away from Trump/the right a bit?
I dunno - I think they’ve accepted Trump’s gone. But they’re very much preaching to their choir of right wing nut jobs still.
Fox News stating ‘if the left win the two seats in Georgia in January, bye-bye America. We won’t even have a national anthem’.
I thought people were saying Murdoch was pulling away from Trump/the right a bit?
Trump yes, but they're still the Republican Cheer Leading Squad.
You never know with these fat old ****s, this might all be over some personal pissing contest. I can well imagine Trump sucking up to Murdoch in 2016 because he needed him, and then being condescending next time they spoke and Murdoch deciding he was going to show him who was boss.
I dunno – I think they’ve accepted Trump’s gone. But they’re very much preaching to their choir of right wing nut jobs still.
There was another chap on the panel saying he was talking nonsense to be fair. But still.
I thought people were saying Murdoch was pulling away from Trump/the right a bit?
His news sections are distancing themselves somewhat from Trump.
The opinion side is still bat shit crazy and mostly pro Trump.
With regards to "the right" Murdoch doesnt really care about that so long as he gets what he wants which, admittedly, is more likely from a right wing party but not completely essential.
bye-bye America. We won’t even have a national anthem’.
Weird how they conveniently forget all the other times the Democrats have been in charge and this hasn't happened.
I know the divisive politics there are just insane, but it is very odd to say "Hey see those guys that were in office for 8 years before Trump, if they get into power they will destroy America"
Trump eyes starting his own digital media empire
Predictable. He can go back to being a "celebrity" snidely criticising the president for playing golf too much and not sorting out the pandemic.
This calmed me down a bit yesterday. About an hour-long but some amazing pics and stories if you're into photography.
also how the counting could have been streamlined so the results in election day don’t look so wonky.
The republican controlled legislatures in AZ, GA, WI, PA etc blocked the counters from counting votes early
A cynic would say to precipitate exactly this kind of uncertainty over democrat votes
That’s so dodgy!! Are we surprised though?
That's fairly flimsy but certainly tantalising from a drama point of view!
I'd be very interested in trump doing this news outlet, only to see how Fox news and Alex jones reposition themselves.
Alex Jones would firstly take a huge hit on his merchandising income if he hasn't already as there's only so much right wing nut job money to go around
He'd then probably move further right which would mean he'd actually don a Nazi uniform and take his lead from the neo Nazis in the Blues Brothers
The fox nut jobs would be tempted away to join trump, as fox has been restraining how they really feel. So Carlson and Hannity would have their own shows. However trump himself would naturally want the primetime flagship show for himself to ramble uncontrollably for 60 minutes.
Trump kids would want their own shows but what if Tucker and Sean want equal billing? I predict a riot
I can see Eric being given the graveyard slot, and being very happy with his lot. Sort of like Alan partridge on radio Norwich
...And, when it comes to hate and division:
I saw a MAGA post talking about how Trump should start his own political party, completely separate from the Republicans.
The generally feeling among the libtards commenting was "Great idea, please do that! Third parties always work brilliantly in our electoral system" 😀
I suggested that "The Trump Party" could perhaps be shortened to "the T Party"...
dantsw13
Free MemberThat’s so dodgy!! Are we surprised though?
We shouldn't be, the exact same thing happened here in '94. The "Literal Democrats" ran in Devon and were able to trick enough votes away from the Liberal Democrats to flip a seat to Tory. Led to a law change but the result stood.
Jamze
Full MemberFox News stating ‘if the left win the two seats in Georgia in January, bye-bye America. We won’t even have a national anthem’.
Schrodinger's Biden again, simultanoeusly a Biden in a box can be Sleepy and lead the Do Nothing Democrats, and can also be Literally Satan and going to overthrow america, ban the national anthem and kill god.
I mean, I'm not sure where I stand on the slaying of deities but I'm pretty sure it counts as doing something. And stealing elections, again that's probably not in the "do nothing" column is it?
Can't see this going down well with the orange one; given the money that Adeleson pumped into trump's campaigns this a very clear message with a lot of weight behind it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/12/las-vegas-review-journal-trump-defeat-436302
What's happening in Arizona, super slow counting but Trump's added over hundred compared to Biden adding only 13 today.
According go the chart I'm looking at.
Here's a question. What's the mechanism for ensuring the electoral college voters actually vote for the candidate that won their state? Could these votes be subverted in some way and the election ACTUALLY stolen? (well probably not, he'd have to turn a couple of big states or loads of little ones the way the figures stack up)
tthew
Full MemberHere’s a question. What’s the mechanism for ensuring the electoral college voters actually vote for the candidate that won their state?
Lynchings, essentially.
Arizona votes have updated properly now, ignore my last post but Trump keeps closing that gap strangely.
Georgia & Arizona shouldn't be this close.
Most seemingly well informed commentators think this is about Trump desperately trying to stay relevant and not admit to being a loser, and the silence/collusion from Republicans is about keeping voters riled up for the Senate runoffs - rather than a genuine attempt to stage a coup. Who knows with crazy Donald though.
Thanks slowoldman, that explains it nicely.
this nonsense from Trump is also about raising money to pay his debts from the campaign
this nonsense from Trump is also about raising money to pay his debts from the campaign
The political appointments suggest it's more sinister and/or deep rooted than that.
On Pod Save America they are saying that sources suggest Trump knows he has lost but is playing up the coup scenario as 'theatre' for his supporters, as they wouldn't want him to go down without a fight - although obviously it's mainly about feeding his rampant narcissism.
I don't like this "we're/they're not really serious" narrative.
Is it just me or is this last one percent of votes taking forever to count, then there's the Georgia recount dragging on till Wednesday.
Is it just me or is this last one percent of votes taking forever to count, then there’s the Georgia recount dragging on till Wednesday.
I think they're just checking that all the valid votes have been accounted for. Depending on the state, postal ballots can be valid if they were postmarked by specified dates, even if they arrive late. There are also overseas votes (many of them from military personnel) that arrive late, so they need to check that there aren't any outstanding valid ballots before they can sign off on it. In most states, there won't be enough of those to make any difference, but when the margin is close, it's mathematically possible that late arriving ballots could change the outcome.
Anyone else worried yet?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/trump-election-concede-republicans-democrats
No, ignoring him whilst preparing for office is the right path.
You can’t fight a liar with truth.
Meanwhile the biggest republican donor is slagging Trump in his media outlet and Fox News has dropped him too.
Let the dying fish thrash on the dockside.
Anyone else worried yet?
I don't think serious people are worried about Trump succeeding with his refusal to concede. What I think people are worried about is the precedent the Republican Party is setting, which is really intended to undermine confidence in democratic institutions.
Yup... what happens when, in future, USA politicians point out the latest Putin "election" shenanigans....?
JOB DONE.
Anyone else worried yet?
Hey, you told me NOT to worry about exactly this... and I'm doing my best, despite all the past evidence of norms being overturned.
Anyone else worried yet?
The BBC has a less hysterical view of it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54909817
In short, no, I'm not worried. Biden will be President on the 20th of Jan and it's possibly better for all concerned if Trump is kept busy until then.
They're sowing the seeds of doubt (more like cultivating the ones they sowed ages ago) so that as time goes on more and more people doubt the legitimacy of elections*, not this one specifically, but all of them.
If they can get the doubts properly embedded now then it makes it even easier to (falsely) claim it's rigged/fraud next time, heck, they'll even refer to this one as 'evidence' of previous issues.
It's not necessarily about getting this one overturned, it's about setting up the narrative that fraud happened, the other side did it, and that they should have won, and should win the next one. It's all about discrediting an opponents win as something that is 'wrong'.
*ones they lose anyway, of course the ones they win are valid 😉
It seems he is being handled as any capricious and dangerous leader might be handled. By being allowed to piss and moan and vent and whinge whilst simultaneously minimising the actual damage. For sure some close aides have drunk the kool aid but lots of GOP members play longer games than that. The orange gibbon only turned up to politics a few years ago and will disappear from it equally quickly.
If he continues to vent evidence free accusations he isn't doing anything more serious.
Hey, you told me NOT to worry about exactly this…
I'm not really 🙂
It's an interesting counterpoint though to the assumption that all is ok, and I can never resist the temptation to dampen the mood.
From the Guardian article:
It might be too much of a power grab. One would hope that American politics have not become so tribal that a political party is willing to seize power without a plausible basis for doing so rooted in the actual votes of the citizenry,”
‘One would hope (not)’
No lessons learned there then. Ever since 9/11 and the proliferation of dumbed-down internet-borne talk-radio-style conspiracy-prattle on crack...
...it’s become more tribal than ever. Beginning to take hold in the UK also.
Didn't the investigation into 9/11 conclude a delayed transition to Bush may have contributed to the US lowering its guard?
I hope Republican supporters will make it as hard as possible for the Democrat to govern before they even announce the Presidential election winner.
Yes, every step of the way and every inches need to be a hurdle just like they did to President Trump.
I can never resist the temptation to dampen the mood
Show some Friday spirit! As it happens... I no longer think he'll be in his post in January... but I do think he'll spend every day 'till he leaves casting shade on liberal democracy at home and abroad... I'm expecting some jokes in January about Russia and North Korea being more stable... and Biden's inauguration will be like the debates with Hilary... where he kept walking around to get into shot and pull faces... there will be no dignified hand over.
I hope Republican supporters will make it as hard as possible for the Democrat to govern
Yeah, COVID can look after itself for a while I guess while they make a point.
Yes, every step of the way and every inches need to be a hurdle just like they did to President Trump.
Sorry? They conceded the day after, Trump was being given the tour of the White House by now. The Trump campaign went to the courts trying to prevent Clinton recounts.
I no longer think he’ll be in his post in January
It ain't over yet and be prepared for some surprises.
Sorry? They conceded the day after, Trump was being given the tour of the White House by now. The Trump campaign went to the courts trying to prevent Clinton recounts.
Yes, as if Democrats accepted. Since day one they have been relentless at making life difficult for President Trump but two can play that game so let see who can play it better. Interesting time.
Presumably we're just going to have a steady drip, drip, drip of baseless new lawsuits so Trump can spin this out for as long as possible.
What a sore loser loser.
before they even announce the Presidential election winner.
It's been announced, haven't you heard or are you just in denial? (P.S. I'm aware of what your bad-faith argument against this will be, please don't bother spewing it)
Yes, every step of the way and every inches need to be a hurdle just like they did to President Trump.
You mean like the gracious and professional manner that the Obama administration dealt with the Trump transition team? Which is exactly as all previous administrations have behaved - putting the welfare of the nation before political calculations.
It’s been announced, haven’t you heard or are you just in denial? (P.S. I’m aware of what your bad-faith argument against this will be, please don’t bother spewing it)
Pending the outcome of court case and appeal ... It ain't over yet.
You mean like the gracious and professional manner that the Obama administration dealt with the Trump transition team? Which is exactly as all previous administrations have behaved – putting the welfare of the nation before political calculations
You have winner and loser. The rest of the emotional description is irrelevant.
Putting welfare first? You mean Not America First or do you prefer to call it America Second?
Does that mean China Joe's slogan will be "America Second"?
I hope Republican supporters will make it as hard as possible for the Democrat to govern before they even announce the Presidential election winner.
Yes, every step of the way and every inches need to be a hurdle just like they did to President Trump.
Jesus honey!!!
I told you to put bricks on top of the wheelie bins but you didn't. And now that darned racoon is spreading garbage everywhere...
The court cases are not serious, it's theatre - so far they have all been dismissed out of hand usually with scorn and derision from the judge.
Trump campaign lawyer in the case in Arizona: 'we are not alleging fraud, rather there are good faith errors which wouldn't have changed the outcome' - er..... ok then
Michigan - they claimed to have explosive evidence of fraud, what it boiled down to:
- 'loud noises and mean stares' towards observers
- 'too loud talking to the observers over the PA'
- a Democrat poll observer told a republican observer 'go back to the suburbs Karen'
Pending the outcome of court case and appeal … It ain’t over yet.
Haven't all of his lawsuits been thrown out up to now?
His legal team is deserting him from a couple of nut jobs.
Yes, as if Democrats accepted. Since day one they have been relentless at making life difficult for President Trump but two can play that game so let see who can play it better. Interesting time.
Democrats being horrified by what Trump's been doing for the last 4 years is not the same as the Trump administration refusing to transition. Very different. And Trump needs to be careful as he's going to end up having blame placed with him if there are some negative impact and an investigation.
Putting welfare first? You mean Not America First or do you prefer to call it America Second?
There's only one President in the last 50 years who's refused to release his tax returns. There's also only one President who turned out to have secret Chinese bank accounts that he "forgot" about. And they were the same President. Donald Trump. So yes, America Second does pretty much summarize his presidency. Trump first, everyone else last.
chewkw
Free MemberIt ain’t over yet and be prepared for some surprises.
And what are these surprises you talk of?
that NY Times article is interesting...I presume by announcing he's running in 2024 (even if he isn't) it would allow him to continue to fundraise, and pay off his debt mountain
(ps haven't all learned to ignore the troll yet?!)
Sorry
And what are these surprises you talk of?
court case
There’s only one President in the last 50 years who’s refused to release his tax returns. There’s also only one President who turned out to have secret Chinese bank accounts that he “forgot” about. And they were the same President. Donald Trump. So yes, America Second does pretty much summarize his presidency. Trump first, everyone else last.
Is he breaking the law? Why not apply the law?
You should check out China Joe's connection with China too.
So are you saying "Make America less great" now and "America Second"?
This is interesting ...
US election: China congratulates Biden after long silence