... resulting in no sleep for any of us apart from much loved two year old who invariably ends up hogging our bed by sleeping sideways and punching and kicking us both, presumably to ensure we're both still there.
My take on this is that he needs to cry for three - five minutes before having a parent come in and comfort him, at which point he goes to sleep on his own bed. I know. I do it twice a week when mum's out.
But no, mum won't let his brain be wired badly by leaving him screaming, causing irreversible damage to his future prospects.
Honest opinions sought please, preferably from other parents.
Our 2 year old won't sleep in her own bed at all and her 5 year old sister isn't much better, so think yourself lucky!
Point being that neither of us have had a decent night's sleep in two ****ing years. It's destroying us. If he came into our bed and slept for four hours that'd be fine - no problems with co-sleeping. But he doesn't. He just thrashes about all night long and doesn't sleep during the day either.
End of tether.
Yep.he needs to cry for three - five minutes before having a parent come in and comfort him, at which point he goes to sleep on his own bed.
Suggest to your wife that you go to his room and sleep there - and let her put up with him.
Meant to add, when mum goes out for the night twice a week, I let him work himself into a lather for about three minutes, go up and comfort him and he instantly falls asleep. Every time. Mum thinks this is torture for a small person waking up alone and abandoned. She's well read in psychology and kids' literature. Constantly quotes stats and evidence at me as if it's the ****ing bible.
Honestly, wits end. He's doing his dinger upstairs right now and I'm expected to sleep on the floor next to his cot so he "knows there's someone there". Just no way. I need my sleep.
Crumbs. I'm repeating myself like some kind of head wound trauma victim. Sorry. (I have been one of those in the past after falling off my bike. Not saying if I was wearing a helmet or not).
Not saying if I was wearing a helmet or not
I think you might find if you were wearing a helmet a few years back none of this would be happening!
Perhaps you could start by burning all the books and putting a filter on the internet.... sound proofing his room?
She's well read in psychology and kids' literature
I know bobbins about psychology but I'm very well-read in children's literature. Where is the Green Sheep?, That's not my Snowman, The Gruffalo's Child etc. etc...
On a more serious note, we started to go down the same route as you, when our son was two-and-a-bit. He was ill and coughing himself awake several times a night, waking us both up and meaning one of us had to traipse through to his room and comfort him back to sleep. In the end we got fed up and brought him into our bed just to save us from having to get up each time. About a week later we realised that even though he was mostly over the illness, this was the start of a very slippery slope, and no-one was getting any sleep, so we just put him back in his bed and did as you suggest - let him cry for a bit and then settled him.
This being STW, I'm assuming you've requested peer-reviewed sources for this type of assertion? 😀But no, mum won't let his brain be wired badly by leaving him screaming, causing irreversible damage to his future prospects.
Also, you say that she's well-read in this that and the other - I initially took that to mean 'qualified', but do you mean she's just read a bunch of trendy parenting manuals?
Why not suggest a trial*? You'd tried the 'sleeping in your bed' approach, and the result is that no-one's getting any sleep, it's putting a strain on the relationship, the sprog is picking up on the bad vibes and is therefore being unsettled at night, and round and round you go.
How about suggesting that for a week or two you try your method, to see if it works. You could even compromise and go in to comfort him as soon as he starts crying rather than waiting - but in his own bed, not yours.
*I don't mean try to drown her, and if she survives burn her for being a witch.
My understanding is that practically everyone in France does this. My peer reviewed evidence that this isn't massively problematic: spend a fortnight camping in France. You will very quickly learn that there are few problems having a pitch next to a French family with kids, but if you're next to the average English family that indulges their kids, it's a waking nightmare. When you hear grown people negotiating with toddlers you know they're just making their own problems.
Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems: A Practical and Comprehensive Guide for Parents17 Apr 1986
by M.D. Richard Ferber
1p on Amazon. It sorted my kids out nicely (many years ago).
My four year old, although he goes to bed very, very nicely with no bother at all, probably wakes up 2 out of 3 nights in the early hours, goes downstairs for a single fish, then comes and gets in with us. He has a staying in his own bed all night reward chart, with a bloody Lego set sitting next to it waiting for him to complete it, but he still says he doesn't really want to finish that chart! The problem we had/have with ours is that my wife does not wake up when a child gets in the bed, she's completely oblivious to it. I tried putting them back in their own beds for a while, but all they learnt was that it's a 50/50 chance of Dad being there to put them back so it's definitely worth a try! If he's too wriggly I go and sleep in his bed, but it's a racing car bed so that's ok. Doesn't really help the OP I suppose.
Every kids different.
But. 1 You need to speak to the wife. Having your kid sleep with you isn't normal or right for any of you.
2. If he doesn't sleep that well, are you feeding the wrong stuff in the day time ie E numbers etc. Or is there an underlying health issue?
3. Be firm and fair. All kids have patterns of not sleeping well, and wanting m&d in the night. They are also very manipulative little buggers and know how to get what they want. At 2yrs they fully understand what you are saying. In the day time we would tell Jnr FD that he had to sleep in his bed all night as making us all tired etc. And use bribery too. Ie sleep all night in your bed and you can have a freddo in the morning.
Its all about breaking the pattern of what they think is normal. Some times that did mean one of us having to stay in his room whilst he fell asleep.
As you already do that yourself you need to get the wife doing the same. At the moment Jnr is in charge, not the adults.
Our boy is 15months old and has been sleeping through the night from 12weeks. When we started we let him cry for 15-20minutes before he fell asleep. By about day 4 he was asleep in seconds after being put to bed and apart from the odd wobble when he's ill has been that way since. We may have just got very lucky and got one who likes to sleep.
We don't own a parenting book. I go with the view that it's a pretty common sense thing that people have been doing successfully for thousands of years. No rule can be applied to every child so go with your gut as you know them better than anyone.
disagree. Ours (2 of them) slept with us on and off until they were about 10. No problem there and they are normal well balanced children as far as I know. We have friends who had their children in bed until about 12But. 1 You need to speak to the wife. Having your kid sleep with you isn't normal or right for any of you
but.. they slept (most of the time). They could also be put in their own beds if we wanted to
When ours weren't sleeping well I put them in their own bed and held their hand while they went to sleep. It never took more than 5 minutes and then I could get back to bed. I listened to a radio program once on this topic where people had to be taught to let them children cry themselves to sleep as in the long run it helped everyone
I'm with you op and I absolutely hate those parenting books as it prevents you working out what is best for your family.
I feel your pain O.P.
My boy is 2 and a bit,gets in with us and has never EVER slept through the night!!
I've told my missus that she indulges him too.When I put him down I'm "grumpydada" and he wants mammy to "pat" him.It is tiring and maybe one night in the week I'll camp on the spare bed and make sure my missus gets a lie in.
Due to small flat,house move & renovation etc we've all been camped together since he was born,however the bedrooms will soon be complete and I'll be packing the little wriggler off to his own room.Woohoo.
When he was tiny I let carry him on for 2 minutes before comforting, being a tofu munching liberal any more is cruel.... 😉
Now all he needs is a story and to tell him the long list of people who love him and he's snoring.Then between 2&4a.m. ,he'll jump out of the cot like a tiny ninja......the shitehawk. 😀
Same as Leffeboy here. Ignore the books - go with your gut. Mrs Wally and myself both quite like a bit of company from the wee one and a chat. Often all three of us read for an hour or so in the same bed and chat about the day ahead and just gone.
During the week ours was at nursery and literally we saw him for two hours in the evening before bed.
He sleeps to circa 3am then sneaks into our bed. Hes learnt that shouting mummy! And running like a stampeding elephant gets him put back. Help!
Leffeboy - but it isn't working for them. The wife sleeps through and wakes up refreshed, the OP doesn't sleep. So therefore not good for them.
The key thing here is that for every book you read that tells you to do it one way, there will be another telling you the opposite.
Same with parents. For every kid that slept through after 12 weeks, there's another that never really settled until they were 5 years old. Everyone has their own guaranteed solution but they're statistically only working with one or two individuals. Thinking all babies are the same and will conform is a rather daft way to look at it, when you think about it.
Key thing is to speak with your wife, try different things and work out what is best for all concerned. My boy wouldn't sleep by himself until he was 2 years old, and my wife got very upset after being told to leave him to cry. We found a solution that worked and enabled us to get a good nights sleep, despite fellow parents informing us we were "making a rod for our own back". In the end, at the age of two he just decided he'd rather sleep in his Thomas the tank engine bed and that was that.
We had similar problems with our number 2, tried reward charts and everything. Live in a flat with poor soundproofing which didn't help.
On approach to her 6th birthday we told her it was the law that when children turn 6 they had to sleep in her own bed and if she didn't the police would come and pay a visit. It worked, yay, she's seven and a bit now and we sleep great.
I feel a baby should learn an element of independence early on. Look after yourself in order to be on top form to look after baby. I want to allow our wee guy cry a good 10-15 mins when he should otherwise be sleeping. Also when he rolls onto his tummy and gets stuck, but my wife feels a bit too upset to wait and will generally come to the rescue. We're working on an ok balance though.
Kids sleeping in parents bed until 12?! The phrase 'mummy daddy issues' springs to mind...
+1 treemagnet
Relying on the incomplete evidence of one set of parents and their "solutions" for their children won't get anyone anywhere.
As with many things, trial and error is often the path to happiness rather than rigid rules.
The trouble is if he's used to be being attended to staright away and used to being taken in your bed then things are gonna invariably get worse before they improve. need to break the habit. although it wont help if you have differing parenting methods to the mrs.
i remember hearing/reading somewhere years before we had kids to never, under no circumstance let them into your bed at night. we adhered to this, even when at times weve considered it might be nice if one of us was away or whatever, but as a result they just dont have the concept in their heads.
however we had similar issues with waking and screaming, and wife would dart in there to settle her. after a while we tried to ignore it but she used to scream so hard she'd spew up, then we'd be up changing her and the bedding etc. eventually i came up with a plan to camp in her room just to be on hand if it got to vomit stage, but i wwould let her scream and scream without comforting. first night horrific, but got better each night and by day 5 i was back in my own bed and baby was sleeping through.
Agreed. My point was related to the comment that sleeping with parents is bad. As has been said by many here, what works for one person doesn't work for others. You have to do like many here and work out your own solution to making it workLeffeboy - but it isn't working for them
edit: I tried to find the radio program that I heard but it was 5 years ago now so impossible to track down. However it was referring to Australia where 'apparently' normal tactic is to let them cry and I found various stuff including this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22966034, which is report suggesting that in the long run it makes no difference to how the child turns out. So do what you can to get to sleep 🙂
This is what the OP's wife needs to read:
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Every time. Mum thinks this is torture for a small person waking up alone and abandoned.
A baby, perhaps, but not for a two year old. He's easily old enough to be told. That's your bed, this is ours - if you get scared we'll come help you but we have to have our own sleep.
I wouldn't say 'let them cry' whatever - you need to figure out when they're genuinely upset and when they are just throwing a tantrum because they haven't got their way.
tie the mother to the bed insert earplugs.. the kid will cry itself to sleep no harm done.. get out of the cycle of letting it sleep in your bed or it ll still be there aged 18 and that ll be a bigger burden for it to carry..
Don't just leave him.. talk to him then leave him.
Peope don't talk to their kids enough generally.
We read somewhere that it takes somewhere between five and ten days/nights to break a habit and change behaviour.. Choose a method, stick to it very strictly, and you should be OK..
After a couple of aborted attempts with our first, we found the willpower to deal with it and he slept through ever since..
Our second child was much more stubborn, we were much more exhausted, and another problem is that, if you're the parent that does the night time stuff, leaving a child to cry can fully wake you, meaning you might not sleep again until 20 minutes, half an hour later.. If the child is waking a lot, this can steal a LOT of your sleep, if you react instantly to the crying, you can be up, settle the child and then be back in bed asleep in just a couple of minute..
For whatever reason, our second child did not respond to any method,, meaning no-one got a full night's sleep until we seperated at xmas.. When you add up the sleepless nights with both kids, that's more than 5 consecutive years without a single good nights sleep..
The second one has just started to sleep through maybe 3 nights out of seven, but he still wakes at 5am, raring to go which is in no way compatible with our regular routines..
exhausting doesn't even come close
We did the controlled crying thing with our 18 month old, like you we'd indulged him
So when he wakes up comfort him tuck him in and leave, let him cry for 5 mins then come back again, then let him cry for 10 mins, then 15 mins, then 30 mins. They invariably pass out after that !
Its tough on you- feel terrible and your sleep is broken and they can work themselves up
But after a couple of weeks, (with no giving in)
But mum and dad have to agree and both stick with the routine
Your kid will be sleeping like a baby (what a misleading phrase), 4 years old and he's still really good, illness aside
When his brother came along we were much stricter from the start and he's now 2 and a very good sleeper
Its tough at first but life is better when parents and kids are well rested; better moods, behavior and ability to focus
Seeing as this is stwdadsnet, I guess I should give a mum's perspective. I would agree with the mother. I still co-sleep with my girls 4 and 7, their Dad has his own room, everyone is happy. My kids are smart, happy, independant and well adjusted. The older one chooses to sleep in her own bed often these days and sometimes sneaks in to sleep with her Dad. It's only in the western world that we feel the need to suppress instinct and natural behaviour to conform to the work ethic and so called civilised ideals.
You need to sort this out with your wife, the first problem is between the two of you, and the lack of agreement.
I've seen it happen with friends, both intelligent and one being a psychologist, ultimately lead to divorce and much unpleasantness for all involved.
It's only in the western world that we feel the need to suppress instinct and natural behaviour to conform to the work ethic and so called civilised ideals.
You know what? I get really sick of being told I'm 'conforming' to some absurd received opinion without having thought it through myself. Feel free to post your experiences but try not to casually insult everyone else please!
as said above, both you and your wife need a common approach to this and stick to it or it just wont work as your 2 year old is getting a different message from each of you.
try and find a compromise approach that you are both happy with (I know easier said than done!) and then both stick to it.
Child has lack of sleep - grumpy child.
You have lack of sleep - fall asleep at the wheel, die, child is left father/motherless, atomic death etc.
I am with you on this 100%. Let the child learn to comfort itself. I have few memories of being two. None of them involve any trauma due to sleeping in my cot on my own.
molgrips, I'm not trying to insult you, bring up your kids how you like. I have thought it through and I don't feel the need to conform to others ideals of how and when my kids should sleep. Thats my point, if you are happy with your choices then thats great.
BTW the problem here is nothing to do with the child: it's the OP blaming his wife for his disturbed sleep! Nice....
Your tone is very passive-aggressive, dbcooper!
What like yours? I just posted my thoughts, I can't see how I have blamed you or instructed you in how to live your life in any way.
My experience as a mother is that everybody has an opinion that they like to foist upon you on what you are doing wrong, when in fact I have been happy with my choices from the beginning and my kids are well. Hence my point about not feeling the need to conform, because almost everybody told me to leave the kids to cry, do the hoovering while they wail and generally go agaisnt my own instinct. I did not conform and so far nobody is dead. I'm not suggesting you do the same, I'm suggesting you have the strength to choose whatever you want to do, it seems as though you have, so good news.
Toddler Taming - a great book and a great bloke - used to get lectures from him in Oz when I did a chunk of a paediatric rotation there.
Kids that age do often respond to training. They learn quickly and then forget the trauma. So you have to find a way you are both happy with which doesn't screw up your life and relationship and intimacy together.
OP, say to your partner "if every time I woke up in the night, you gave me a cuddle and pint of beer, do you think it would stop waking me at night?"
Your initial post dbcooper did sound a little 'we did it the right way, the rest of you are doing it wrong and just conforming to a forced ideal like sheep'
Your last post was a lot more diplomatic and explained things better 🙂
I think that none of us fathers though can understand the mothers need to comfort her child, we love our children all the same but are wired differently. My wife is very much 'Aaah don't climb on that chair' to our 11 mth son, whereas I'm more 'Go for it, he'll be fine' but will be there to catch him if he falls. Its all about balance. No pun intended. 🙂
Wilko, fair enough, we just did it our way. I wanted to share that.
I dunno if it's that simple wilko.. I'm a stay at home dad, and so I raised our kids whilst their ma went to work, which also had a fairly dramatic effect on the traditional gender roles..
Controlled crying is what my mother used for me and all my siblings. I can only remember it being used on my youngest 3 siblings as they are 10, 12 and 14 years younger than me. It worked even on the oldest of the threee who was a totally mental ****ing bitch.
To the OP I feel you frustration and exhaustion. Without sleep every aspect of life is less good.
I haven't read all the posts, but see the general gist is that every child is different. To that I'd add every family is different... For us it took time to find a strategy that felt as though we were moving forward together, even if there weren't instant results. We prepared the ground by explaining our plan to nipper then put him to bed. The plan was a) went in after 5 min crying, retucked nipper without making eye contact (which seemed important) or talking b) retreated, lay in bed mutually supporting each other (as we both felt awful listening to him cry we had to stop each other breaking the plan) b) after 10 min repeated c) after 15 min repeated etc.
At no point was it easy to listen to him cry, so I guess I'm saying I can understand how your partner feels 'inflicting' unhappiness on your child (even if that's not how you see it).
Perhaps talking more about how hard your finding it coping without sleep and the effect it's having on you (& her?). A neutral third person in the discussion might help, not to make any judgement but to help you talk about it.
Raising our nipper has been, without doubt, the hardest thing I've ever done. And getting through the sleeping part was the hardest part of the whole experience.
Good luck finding the solution that works for you.
We had a bit of this on and off and still do (My girl is 20 months)
She would always resquawk after about an hour and then would be up again for between 3-5 hours which was killing us, mainly my wife really. She wouldn't go back to bed and so they ended up sleeping together. This went on and then i think in desperation i suggested that i put her to bed , my wife went out for a long walk or to see a friend and I would check on her every ten minutes to settle her down. It was really really hard, night one was near on an hour of cry, settle, i leave, cry until she decided to sleep. Next night 30 minutes, 3rd night 5 minutes then after that for months literally wanted to be in bed. Even now she generally wants to go to bed and will come and tell me when it is bath time, i read her a story with a light on, turn it off and reassure her that I am there then tell her i will come and check on her if she is upset. Every now and then i have to but literally one night in 30. Of course it will all change and last night she woke up in a pile of vom so there are exceptions !
But to echo the above, its hard to be rational and it puts massive tension on everything you do together. You sadly just have to communicate and hope that there will be some listening on both sides.
dbcooper - my wife did the same as you, against all sorts of "advice" from other mothers. Our daughters are great and nobody has suffered as a result.
IME loss of sleep goes with the territory when you have toddlers around. One way or another they tend to keep you awake, regardless of where they are supposed to be sleeping. Only my experience of course, I'm sure some parents are fortunate enough to have two years olds who just sleep the whole night peacefully in their own bed and then bring them breakfast in bed in the morning.
1 You need to speak to the wife. Having your kid sleep with you isn't normal or right for any of you.Ie sleep all night in your bed and you can have a freddo in the morning.
Having a freddo in the morning isn't normal or right for any of you.
The advice given in Toddler Taming is to go in, not switch on the light, not speak, but simply settle the child then leave. By talking and making a fuss you reinforce the behaviour. It's easy to say this but it worked for us; the simple strategies of a rigorous daily routine and non-reinforcement of the wrong behaviour with reward for the right, did the job.
It hasn't stopped him crashing his bike in his teens though, which is costing a bit in repairs.
globalti - problem with that approach is that it is not guaranteed to work with every child. It makes perfect sense, but in practice it didn't work with ours. They are all different and you have to make it work in your own way.
We have a child and I am therefor an expert ....in dealing with him.
He like every other child has phases of sleep issues , we did not want to do controlled crying too traumatic for him and us (we know people who swear by it and are lovely parents with happy offspring.)
we did something like gradual retreat . read his usual bed time stories in his room then sit till he slept after a bit same routine but sit further away and so on till the sitting is in the door way then outside the door. when sitting have the lights off and only say what ever your agreed words are do not engage in conversation or eye contact or peek a bo. our words were " shush shush shush time to sleep" if he woke in the night we went in soothed him and did the same retreat .
He now goes down fine . but at 3 is in an adult bed and has taken to waking up at about three wandering in to our room and sleeping between us or if he sleeps through till 6 am coming in then for a chat . we depending on tiredness and mood are perfectly happy with that as he is getting off to sleep reliably in his own bed.
Ignore any one including me who claims to have the correct answer do what you both feel comfortable with personally I try to let crankygirl take the lead when we are together as that makes us all happier.
OP why not persuade your wife just to relax in the house for one night so she can see how it works when you are alone , it may even help for her to pretend to go out then sneak back so your child does not know she is their and adopt tactics accordingly.
Well I have no idea what the OP's domestic arrangements are but we are lucky enough that I was able to be with the kids and not have to go to work. So I could sleep when they sleep, I can empathise with anyone where both parents have to stick to a working time. In all situations, needs must.
hey what works for us is routine really . He is two on Saturday . He goes to bed at 7pm, half an hour before we wind down read, watch some tv etc. pyjamas on nappy change , then he helps us tidy away his toys . We then say goodbye to a few things (toys etc) and we go into his room. We always get him to switch off the light, say goodnight and we leave him. He falls asleep straight away and doesn't wake until 6am, 90% of the time.
If he won't sleep one of us lies next to him on the floor ( rug ready on standby) and around 10 mins later he will sleep.
If he wakes early we take it in turns to go into his room and lie next to him , falling asleep until around 6.
I don't know other than with my kid but any issues we have had have always been a stage that passes. All the best and hope it gets sorted.
If you want to sleep, put her back in her bed EVERY time. Do this for 3 days and you problem will be solved, carry on letting her boss you about and it will be years of lack of sleep.
Lots of good stuff, thanks all.
I'm bound to start with the negative, so
ourmaninthenorth - Member
BTW the problem here is nothing to do with the child: it's the OP blaming his wife for his disturbed sleep! Nice....
I've re-read my late night, desperate post which was written in the heat of the moment after a heated discussion with my wife and I can see why you might think I'm an arse but please do consider my state of mind before making any more judgements. Not that there isn't any truth in what you say but it just doesn't boil down that simply I'm afraid.
Just to clarify, I was / am peeved because there is no wiggle room. No compromises. No experiments. We did finally agree to a "gradual retreat", as described by crankboy ^^^. I fear it's destined to fail though. Our son's cry does seem to set off something primal in both our heads. My reaction is to put on metaphorical ear defenders and wait. Mrs Removed's reaction is to leap out of bed and comfort (or kick me in the nuts until I take off the mental protection and do it myself). She is utterly convinced that a crying child is damaging him / herself. It's this belief which is at the root of the problem.
Yes, we both work - she's a health professional, I'm a dilettante, slovenly artist photographer who should work harder. Still a full time ****ing job though.
MrsFla is a Paediatric consultant and she advocates the toddler taming approach - hopefully that will counteract some of the trendy rubbish you have heard.
MiniFla No1 did this at about 8 months and it took us a while to crack until we actually followed the book properly and except for the results of my genetics he is a completly normal happy, secure 7 year old
Basically you have to go in and calm them down in their bed and then leave, but you leave this for longer and longer periods until they dont cry out and easily comfort themselves back to sleep.
Go get the book, its ace
I have a mate who takes this approach when the baby cries. He tells his wife "it's your baby, you wanted it" and turns over.
Imagine this said by a massive Romanian bloke.
He says it works every time.
When ours were going through the not sleeping stage we kept a duvet in their rooms and dozed on the floor till they settled. Had probably a year of disturbed nights with eldest, a few months with youngest. They never got into our bed unless they were proper poorly.
Worked for us. Friends had kids sharing with and disturbing them till they were 7 or 8, left them exhausted and put massive strain on their relationship.
I know which route I think is best. I would suggest that the OP needs to point out to his Mrs that his way works, her way is destroying them, and let her choose. Could get messy though.
I did the controlled crying thing at about 1, it worked really well but was hard, really hard.
I sat at the top of the stairs listening to her cry. I could have just gone downstairs and sat in the kitchen where it was much harder to hear, but hey, if she's suffering I figured I should at least do her the courtesy of having my heart ripped out by her screams!
It took about 3 nights before she started being happy at bedtime, she's been awesome at going to bed ever since.
hey what works for us is routine really . He is two on Saturday . He goes to bed at 7pm, half an hour before we wind down read, watch some tv etc. pyjamas on nappy change , then he helps us tidy away his toys . We then say goodbye to a few things (toys etc) and we go into his room. We always get him to switch off the light, say goodnight and we leave him. He falls asleep straight away and doesn't wake until 6am, 90% of the time.
It's a bit different in our house at bedtime if I'm honest. Both our daughters consider sleeping as a waste of their play time and so going to bed is the very last thing they ever want to do. Our 5 year old actually sleeps pretty well now, but she still cannot see the point of sleeping or eating, but that's another story!
I feel I should add that luckily andyfla's genetics seem quite weak and flaNo1 seems surprisingly normal....
Really grateful for all the real - world opinions and experiences. Thanks again. It's nursery day today, so I'm trying to get some actual work done without falling asleep on the floor.
Fortunately our two took little effort to get into a good routine and we went down the controlled crying route. No lights on, no speaking, don't lift out of their bed, just comfort until they relax and their eyes start to go.
The difference is we'd already talked prior and both agreed to take this route (we'd witnessed friends with slightly older kids going through it, who still had their kids in bed with them each night when they were at primary school).
It sounds like you're going to have some difficulty convincing your wife to try your method (ideally you need to stick to it for a good few weeks) and as others have said it will get worse before it gets better as your nipper is now used to sleeping in your bed. Your wife may then revert to her preferred method and use it as a stick to beat you with. Have you got a spare room? I'd probably be sleeping in that 😀
If you want to sleep, put her back in her bed EVERY time. Do this for 3 days and you problem will be solved, carry on letting her boss you about and it will be years of lack of sleep.
This, 100% and it carries for other behaviours as well. I am sick to the back teeth of all the mollycoddled middleclass whimplings that I encounter who have grown up devoid of discipline and any self reliance. Every single decision, issue, crisis whatever involves a run back to mummy for a cuddle to sort it out. Watch how the Barnacle Goose does it if you want to know how to bring up kids in world that could turn harsh very quickly.
This, 100%
Lol.. it worked for you so it will definitely work for everyone else, cos all kids are the same!
Parenting's not hard.. oh hang on.. yes it is.
My parenting advice is never take the parenting advice of anyone who thinks they have a simple cast iron solution to your problem. I'll let you work out if this is ironic or not 🙂
Have you got a spare room? I'd probably be sleeping in that
Yes, as it happens. I tend to sleep either on the sofa or in my office until I wake up at 5 am with aching joints (I'm 41) just in time for it to be "my turn" because the wife has to get up and go to work in an hour.
I've always lived by three basic rules, learnt at boot camp; (as above) self reliance, leave people, places and things better than you found them, positive thinking. Thanks to John Ridgeway and his daughter Rebecca for these words of wisdom. I'm only falling down on the positive thinking bit just now...
Double post.
I'll let you work out if this is ironic or not
I can't, it is not cast iron enough
I am going for my tuppence worth, as always the usual disclaimer about my own children etc etc 🙂
My wife is a lecturer in child psychology and development, and has some pretty strong views about what is and isn't harmful to children! For our two children we have done controlled crying, when we do go in and settle (after the normal night time routine of reading etc) then we don't make eye contact, turn on the light, or speak. We simply go in and put them back into bed. They still have nights when they do wake up multiple times, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
I do think that the dad does have a role to play in this, in looking out for the needs of the mother, she is more tired, stressed and biologically programmed to put the needs of her baby above all else, my role was to take on everything else, and at times put her needs above that of the baby so that both of them could have a better nights sleep!
I am sick to the back teeth of all the mollycoddled middleclass whimplings that I encounter who have grown up devoid of discipline and any self reliance.
Is it just a middle class thing then? In what context are you encountering these people?
Lol.. it worked for you so it will definitely work for everyone else, cos all kids are the same!
Expect it will work in this case. If you sleep on your kids floor or let them in the bed don't be surprised if you are not sleeping well.
The OP's situation is exactly the same as mine. We use the controlled retreat approach or i should say Mrsred does, sadly I can't cos thelittlered will only settle for her if disturbed in the night.
This coupled with the fact that i get up to thelittlered far more than Mrsred does led to me putting his travel cot in our room, he sleeps in there if he wakes up in the night. Works a treat.
Having kids is bloody hard work!
My take on this is that he needs to cry for three - five minutes before having a parent come in and comfort him, at which point he goes to sleep on his own bed. I know. I do it twice a week when mum's out.
This is the case with ours. And with ours it's pretty easy to tell the difference between proper distressed crying and just not being able to settle themselves. I read somewhere (probably one of the books mentioned in this thread) that you are training them to be able to get themselves to sleep and that jumping in too often isn't doing them any favours. Took a while but the hard work has paid off for us. Also a lot easier second time around as we had a long list of mistakes we knew we didn't want to repeat!
We did controlled crying, with me going in rather than the mrs.
It took a while, (4 nights?) but seems to work.
I'm guessing it doesn't work in every situation.
Good luck.
I have a 10 year old girl and twin babies, 5 months old.
IMO what quickly become apparent is the differences between dads and mums. Most mums struggle to see their babies cried to sleep, it is hard (many dads feel the same). The trick is to remember that the sanity of the parents is important just like the needs of the baby. So if you need to cry them to sleep to allow you to survive then you should. As shown in many postings above, it can and does work. The baby learns to self sooth, to look after itself yet still know it is safe and secure and parents aren't too far away. Its harder onmthe parents than the babies. Babies aren't stupid, they know how to get what they think they want. as parents your job is ultimately to support them to independence, to teach them about life. It starts early.
The thing you need to realise is that not all kids are crying for the same reasons.
I do think that the dad does have a role to play in this, in looking out for the needs of the mother
He speaks the truth!
our eldest is now 7, we used to take it in turns putting him to sleep and then he would sleep through the whole night and not disturb us...this was when he was 2...by the age of 3/4 we could just take him up and he would nod off by himself
however his cot bed was in our room at the time as we hadnt sorted his bedroom out yet as we were in the process of moving t a new house
our middle one is now 2.5 and has her own room as does her older brother.
she wont go to sleep in her own room so again we take it in turns to put her to sleep in our bed...once she's well and truly knocked out i shift her to her room
we do get occasions where the eldest will try to sneak into our bed in the middle of the night because he's had a bad dream but we can easily send him back or one of us will go and stay with him for a while until he's asleep again
middle one does quite often come into our bed in the middle of the night and wont return of her own free will...but rather than wake up her now 5 month old baby bother we allow her to get into our bed...but once she is asleep again i will cart her off to her own bed
Is it just a middle class thing then? In what context are you encountering these people?
Yes based on my limited observations of the kids my son/daughter hang out with. Maybe I define middle class wrong, to me it's an attitude not an income bracket.
People of any 'class' can indulge or spoil their kids, they just do it in slightly different ways.