[Closed] The second coming

I suspect the Vatican would be sceptical of anyone claiming to be Jesus - they wouldn't want the Pope to be second in charge of all Catholics...how will they make their money?

Cougar, give it a rest its getting tedious at best.

Some would say egotistical. 😉

Whether Jesus was a real person or not - you have to hand it to the Christians - they've got a frickin [b]fantastic[/b] marketing department!!!!

"Most people tend to be interested when misconceptions are explained"

Yep... nail on the head there for me over the last 18months... and that's why I ask you to give it a chance.

missed out the second part of the quote there ro5ey

just saying like

Steve cougar seemed to ask a relevant question (without bashing religion - tho others may have) how would christians decide if someone was the son of god? Surely it's come up at the AGM at the vatican/CoE HQ/wherever

You seem to be massively sceptical of everything, bar your own self perceived awesomeness.....

If I don't love me, who else will?

With your amazing insight you should work for the NHS as you could save the country a fortune with your medical diagnosis's without even having to speak to, or even see the patient.....

The irony of this from someone who appears to believe in the existence of a supreme being

without even having to speak to, or even see

Yes I did, because it is my misconceptions of the church and god that have been explained to me... or that I've worked out myself by attendance and interest in the subject.

Cougar, give it a rest its getting tedious at best.

I'm sorry, give what a rest?

Asking a serious question regarding religious beliefs because I'm genuinely interested in any answers is tedious? Or are you referring to something else?

Far as I can see, it seems plenty of people are having an interesting discussion here. Why not have a go at answering the question if you're bored?

cougar keep it up, I enjoyed your last essay.
If you don't like it, exit the thread.

Cougar, it's all a bit pointless arguing with the converted about God trying to use science and verifiable facts, like trying to explain quadratic equations to a well trained labradoodle. They can process simple commands and obey them, but just don't have the vocabulary to understand why. God is not a concept that Science can prove or disprove.

Anyways, I can't believe we have got to page 3 of this thread with no mention of Father Ted.

Down With This Sort of Thing !

Careful now.

Point is, I wasn't arguing. I said that in my very first post. I was asking for clarification on something I didn't understand (and kinda thought that theists revelled in that sort of thing).

God is not a concept that Science can prove or disprove.

Incorrect, science could prove god, if there were a god. If there is a god science will prove it sooner or later. And the moment science does that, it will be proven that he is ungodlike after all as there will be a rational explaination for his existence. Pooof!

The irony of this from someone who appears to believe in the existence of a supreme being

Oh the irony

Incorrect, science could prove god, if there were a god. If there is a god science will prove it sooner or later

I am guessing you aren't a scientist.

Popular, charismatic, persuasive, ethical man comes to prominence, wants to take from the rich and give to the poor? Think he'd last five minutes in this capitalist, consumerist world..?
The last proponent of that philosophy on a grand scale had his lights put out and his hands cut off in Bolivia in 1968, by the very same people who'd be at the forefront of the silencing of any Second Coming...

Toys, so with that logic, the fact that Science can't prove God exists must mean that God doesn't exist ? As much as that theory appeals, I suggest you watch yourself on pedestrian crossings mate !

I think I missed that stuff about Jesus taking from the rich to give to the poor, I thought that was Robin Hood ? Am I getting my mythical persons confused ?

I think it was Robin Hood too, but JC got there first. I'm no theologist, but rich men, heaven, camels, eyes of needles and all that. Did you fall asleep in RE at school too?

We didn't have RE in the promised land of New Zealand. My parents were Atheists and let me go to church/synagogue/worship hall with whoever was my wee friend at the time as they thought it would be educational. Until my wee friend was Catholic, and my dad introduced me to the idea that although we are Atheists, we are Protestant Atheists. (he was from the Scottish Islands VERY religious family)

For the record, the Baptist Church was my favorite. They had a big ole organ and let me be in the Christmas play.

we are Protestant Atheists

What the jeff is that?

It's a reminder that us fair-minded atheists still love a bit of bigotry. Me, I can't stand those bloody Buddhists.

Perhaps God is beyond scientific explanation?
After all science is limited by the scientist undertaking the exploration.
I would say that as individuals we can all find God; not by looking in a church or a book but by self enquiry; or even something as simple as riding your bike and opening your eyes; sittng still, and just being well still!!
The journey is an internal one not external.
Just a thought.

The journey is an internal one not external.

So what you're saying is, god is a construct of our own minds? I could get behind that.

That instant hit sounds like one those bloody Buddhists!

Nice thought though, but isn't that just human introspection and nowt to do with a supreme being..?

instant hit's ... instant hit

Cougar.... You will not find God sitting on a cloud, God is not a Sky Wizard.... God is within you... But you have to go looking.

You won't know if you can swim, if you dont jump in.

Conversely Coug, if you don't jump in, you won't risk drowning...

Being a Protestant Atheist (my dad, not me) is a Scottish thing I think. It's about not really beleiving in God as such, but reserving the right to be bigoted against Catholics. If you know any Rangers fans I am sure they will help explain it.

Cougar not saying God is a construct of our own minds but you have to get past all the crap in your mind before you can see whats really there. (does that make sense??)
I have a massive problem with organised religion and i dont put myself in a catagory of christian, buddhist etc but have just been interested in "something else that might be God" which has just become a natural enquiry which has evolved over time.
Just dont think books and science provide the answers.

Go for it... I dare you

I dare you?

Do your parents know you are on their computer using the internet?

God is not a concept that Science can prove or disprove.

Science cannot prove or disprove anything that is not real. It can merely point to the probability of such being real.

hels - Member

Being a Protestant Atheist (my dad, not me) is a Scottish thing I think. It's about not really beleiving in God as such, but reserving the right to be bigoted against Catholics. If you know any Rangers fans I am sure they will help explain it.

Sounds about right. A weird little sectarian side to the Scots

Organised religion is just heavy-handed totalitarian politics, god should never be spelt with a capital "g" and humanism can provide anything that any god can. Science will never provide all the answers, but all answers are there to be scientifically found. We, and everything, are, after all, just chemicals and chemical reactions, in glorious technicolour.

Science cannot prove or disprove anything that is not real. It can merely point to the probability of such being real.

In which case it's arguable that the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a 'creator', God as an example ... or you can keep on believing we all came about through a loads of convenient genetic mutations ...

You won't know if you can swim, if you dont jump in.

That's up there with "suck on this wire and tell me if it's live, will you?"

not really beleiving in God as such, but reserving the right to be bigoted against Catholics.

Heh, gotcha.

Cougar not saying God is a construct of our own minds but you have to get past all the crap in your mind before you can see whats really there. ... have just been interested in "something else that might be God"

When I was younger and slowly coming to the realisation that I'd been systematically lied to by adults for most of my life, I considered myself agnostic for a while(*). One of the theories I came up with at the time was that this 'god' concept some people have is actually something inside of us and not supernatural at all. So when we pray, we're actually feeding that something, boosting our own confidence (albeit by trickery) in the same way that a friend going "hey, you're great, everything's fine" would. You pray to god, you believe in it, so you immediately feel better about things because you now trust that 'god will help'. You feel better, ergo prayer works, and the whole thing becomes self-sustaining.

In hindsight, I didn't know it at the time but I think where I was going with that ultimately is that god is an abstraction of the placebo effect.

(* - I eventually stopped when I realised that now [i]I [/i]was lying to me.)

A weird little sectarian side to the Scots

My grandad, a protestant shale miner from Winchboroug and a Hearts fan, would be turning in his grave now that I'm married to a Catholic Chinese girl.

It would be even worse if she supported Hibs.

In which case it's arguable that the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a 'creator',

It's arguable that the moon is made out of custard.

(though it'd make landing on it a trifle difficult)

(sorry)

You pray to god, you believe in it, so you immediately feel better about things because you now trust that 'god will help'. You feel better, ergo prayer works, and the whole thing becomes self-sustaining.

Praying to God must be more than just making you "feel better", otherwise anyone doing it regularly would soon give up because nothing actually changed through doing it ... Christians pray to God because they believe it has the power to change things, and considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results, other than just "feeling better" about things for a while ...

Cougar not saying God is a construct of our own minds but you have to get past all the crap in your mind before you can see what's really there.

It's arguable that the moon is made out of custard.

Only if scientific investigation suggests it's probable.

I don't remember any of the Apollo moon landings mentioning anything about finding milk/cream/egg yolk, and possibly sugar or vanilla.

"I dare you?

Do your parents know you are on their computer using the internet? "

Yep and they are asking what forfeit Cougar is going to do for bottling it

😀

considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results

remind where I can see the tangible results? In the starving faces of African babies, or on the coffins of dead relatives, maybe?

Praying to God must be more than just making you "feel better", otherwise anyone doing it regularly would soon give up because nothing actually changed through doing it ... Christians pray to God because they believe it has the power to change things, and considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results, other than just "feeling better" about things for a while ...

I sometimes wonder if the various Saints have just been conveniently organised for the purposes of praying. Saint Anthony for example is the saint of lost causes, so if you can't find your keys, he's your man. St Francis is the saint of animals, so if your pet is ill, a few words in his shell-like and he'll sort the wee fella out.

Although each saint has a long list of things that they're a dab had at, so maybe they cover all eventualities.

Hmmm prayer, thats something different again, from my experience.
My understanding is that thought (prayer??) transcends time and space. Not sure if i can explain that in words, but its something i have "experienced" and accept.
I would never presume that i could explain God, but as zimbo pointed out "you won't know if you can swim if you dont jump in"

Yep and they are asking what forfeit Cougar is going to do for bottling it

Yeah Cougar, you're big wuss for not throwing yourself unthinkingly into spurious metaphysical nonsense!