MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
eniro doesn’t have an official towbar, but Brink do a special bike rack only one for it. Sadly none for the Soul yet.
I called Kia today and apparently the e-Niro now has a compatible tow bar. As it's a lease car it'll have to be an OEM tow bar won't it?
Things EV are moving more quickly than things ICE, perhaps, but I wouldn't necessarily be put off by that. If it meets your needs today and you don't think your needs will change, then I wouldn't be concerned. Battery tech is changing incrementally but what you buy isn't all that bleeding edge and the main change is how many kWh for your money. Once bought that's in the past. They're still kWh.
As above, older Teslas and Zoes etc are still good cars now if you thought them good cars then.
Range, however... Don't let a quoted 250 miles make you believe you'll happily drive 250 miles up the motorway without needing a charge. Find out what others with the same car tend to average in terms of Wh/mile or miles/kWh and expect something around that, then adjust for avoiding the bottom 20% and remember that in the worst weather you might consume 20% more than on a dry summer's day. But don't fear a long journey either, just plan a lunch stop.
On the range, my Kia Soul says up to 270 miles but that's perfect driving conditions yet over the past few months a full charge predicts on average 215 miles. I'll admit the way I drive probably doesn't help and with the heater on and I do accelerate hard and drive to the speed limits.
I've had the car for 4 months and yet to do a very long journey but I'm still very happy with my choice.
On the Sould it does has a very large upright window screen that does seem to attract stone chips.
Not sure if it's been covered - I need to read the full thread but am trying to get MrsRNP into a cheap (£4k ish)MK1 Leaf for her local commuting <20miles a day.
She's not recovered well from long Covid and struggles walking when it's damp and our big old V70 isn't ideal for short journeys.
We can charge off street via 13amp and have 3phase in our house.
Would love a new EV but I'm a bangernomics/keep cars as long as possible. Maintaining EV tech doesn't bother me - I'm familiar with industrial thyristor/DC/bus systems etc.
So to stop waffling is anyone else running a first gen MK1 leaf?
Worldclassaccident is running a MK1 leaf.
Re the eniro, I've had a Tesla model 3 for 2 winters now but want a hatchback so also looking at eniro, id3 and maybe even a leaf 40 if I can live with the reduced range (not sure I can in winter if my M3 winter reduced range is anything to measure by). So I'd also be interested if anyone has one or has driven id3.
Hyundai Kona driver here. Its basically a re-skinned e-Niro/Soul. I'd be hard pressed to look past the e-Niro. There's nothing the ID3 does better than the e-Niro except it can charge at 100kw but in the real world even if you can find a 100kw charger you'll never see a 100kW charge. Once you have specced up an ID3 to the same spec as an e-Niro it will be at least the same price. FFS VW even charge you extra to have heat pump HVAC which comes standard with the e-Niro. Also the interior of the VW looks cheap and nasty. The days when VW had the edge in quality over far eastern competition are gone.
@doomanic You didn't say how long your company lease would be but as others have said EV tech is changing fast just now so if I was leasing an EV privately I'd do it on 2 year term. If you are undecided between EV and ICE remember benefit-in-kind for an EV is 0% this year rising to 1% next year vs 20-30% for an ICE car. Even if you go for a PHEV your benefit in kind will still be 10%.
Only the highest 4+ spec eNiro comes with a heat pump now.
I went for the Soul as it had better spec than the e-niro but a work colleague has done nearly 10,000 miles in his e-niro and loves it.
I'm running a 2015 Leaf... it was the cheapest car I could find in terms of cost of ownership. As a runaround it's pretty hard to fault. The range is enough for me, and I'm charging for pennies at home off a standard socket. They seem pretty bulletproof - more than a few people I know just use them as second cars, don't hear about problems. 2015 is a good year to look for as some of the earlier 'Mk2 ' batter packs (2013?) had problems... I'm down to 11 of 12 bars so some battery degredation. They're super easy to drive , especially round town, and plenty nippy enough.
I live Norway and use it as my main car for climbing trips . Takes some planning, but easier than you'd imagine.
Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure, seriously impressive.
Norway is miles ahead of the U.K. with their charging structure,
Tesla excepting that wouldn't be difficult
It’s way beyond that.
I went for the soul too and love it. Niro felt like we were always peering over the bonnet as used to vans/Doblo/panda. Also it came with all the bells and whistles plus a bigger commercial discount, as it's weird looking. But we love it. My skateboard fits in the hidden trunk with the charger, but you can also get really nice froot conversion boxes too. We don't have a home charger but 200m away from a few 7kw, and a few miles away from a bunch of 50kw. Show up at 20%, go on a 10k trail run, leave at 85, commute for the week, repeat.
ID3 has a bike rack option but I’ve not been able to fathom quite what it is, looks to be a not-a-towbar for a special rack.
Came across this and it looks to be a proper removable towbar, very neatly fitting behind the number plate, which flips down to access. Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes. £390 if optioned, retrofit for £850.
ID3 is going up my shortlist, base “Life” spec is decent and hefty discounts on offer.
Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?
What's the problem with RWD?
The Zoé is poor uphill in mud/snow because the (battery) weight is evenly distributed, RWD would improve that. FWD usually benefits from weight over the driving wheels but the battery weight negated that.
No drive shafts at the front usually means a tighter turning cicle. A lower bonnet line means better visibility and aerodynamics.
"New pure-electric Citroen e-Berlingo launched with 170-mile range | Auto Express" https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/berlingo/98973/new-pure-electric-citroen-e-berlingo-launched-170-mile-range?amp
Finally getting useful ranges in useful cars
Might be tempted soon. Although I'll wait to see what real world milage is.
Quite like the sounds of the ID3 and 4, but rear wheel drive?
I'm afraid that's ICE thinking. Like Edukator said in BEV's there's no engine up front to press the front wheels down so no advantage to FWD for traction. The battery, the heaviest component, is likely to be in a skateboard with the weight equally distributed under the car. Also there's no transmission tunnel even if the BEV is RWD.
Yep, everything mainstream went FWD once diffs and CV joints capable of it became a thing, it allowed much better packaging and was cheaper to build. Traction in snow from having the heaviest bit over the wheels was a happy side-effect.
Now with bespoke electric cars like the ID3 on a skateboard arrangement they can tuck the (small) motor under the boot floor right by the driven wheels (keeping motor and driven wheels together like a FWD ICE car), shorten the bonnet and pull the driver forward, giving loads of interior space. You get some of the RWD dynamic benefits, can do big steering lock for tighter turning circles, and as said the traction in snow won't be as bad as an old ICE RWD car with all the weight in the nose.
As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important than which wheels the car provides power to.
As ever, better cold weather tyres are far more important
Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.
Yes. I'm on full winters as are hopefully all other cars in Norway. Non issue assuming you buy decent winters - I'm running Conti Vikingcontact on a Gen1 Leaf
I'm on Nokian WRD3s and there's a noticeable.mpg decrease so I just wondered what the % drop.was in terms of EV range.
*I didn't think that no one in.the world had fitted winters to an EV I meant any one here.
Anyone put full winters on a proper EV yet. Id be interested to know what the % range drop is as our cars spend 6-8 months a year on winters.
The drop in battery perforce will out weight changing the tyres.
Having driven 3 different EVs since 2015 I'd say about 30% down on best summer range when temps are down in the low single figures, very approximate differences from my poor memory Zoe 100+ miles vs 70, Soul EV 135 vs 100, MG ZS EV 170 vs 125. Charge rates in winter can be poor depending on battery chemistry and thermal management, MG ZS EV (and the MG5) seem poor in this respect and can easily top out at 20kW when cold.
Car itself has no tow rating but bar is rated for 55kg/2 bikes
I would be a bit concerned at putting a bar on a car with no tow rating; I think it might invalidate the type approval. Not sure what the legal consequences of that are but at the least I'd check with the insurance company, they need to be told of any mods anyway and I wouldn't take the risk of not making clear that it's not manufacturer approved.
As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.
It looks to be a properly engineered towbar, wouldn’t surprise me if they do go through approval for markets like Norway that like to tow small trailers.
Companies like Brink already do towbars for cars like the e-Niro for bike rack use - not a problem as long as you don’t tow with it.
The newly announced Hyundai ioniq 5 looks very impressive. 800v charging, so when you do hook up to a proper fast charger it should be able to hold the high charge rate up to 80% at least (much like the porsche taycan). As the hyundai/kia cars so far have proven fairly efficient, think this could be a winner (price aside).
No idea about tow bars for bike racks yet.
Yes, I'd agree with that range drop number compared to summer, plus the drop in charge rate. I think it's hard to simply get that much charge in a battery if it's allowed to sit charging at a low temp. I don't know if the Korean cars are affected the same way as they don'y use all the battery - but I imagine it's been tested (Bjorn Nyland on youtube)
We've put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.
Interesting comments about the RWD/FWD - would be interesting to compare performance in the snow. Certainly ours without winter tyres was awful, but did amazing once the good tyres were on.
As per the video, it’s an official option and the aperture has a sticker making the tow rating (none) clear.
Ah, sorry, misunderstood - got you now. A towbar that's labelled as not for towing with, rather than a towbar fitted to car that's not designed for one. I'd still tell my insurance, but more likely to be acceptable to them.
We’ve put full winter tyres on our DS3. Battery performance would appear to have been more impacted by the cold weather, dropping forecast range down from around 180miles to closer to 100.
Useful info. Thanks
Unfortunately simply saying it's irrelevant as the temperature performance will hit it harder isn't a help as you don't get a choice between them the issues compound.
The past few weeks of really cold temps my Kia showed on average 215 miles on a charge. The past week in the warmer weather it has gone up slightly.
My 30kWh Soul EV was great, seriously thinking about getting rid of the MG once the 64kWh e-Soul ex-lease cars hit the used market, Kia/Hyundai have a really sorted EV setup. The MG has been sort of disappointing with it's charge rate, efficiently, software bugs, odd design choices and very mixed customer service.
It was the predicted range and good reviews especially of the battery why I went for the Kia. Really liked the looks of the Peugeot but reviews of real-world range put me off it. Unfortunately, Tesla wasn't an option for me to have.
I've got a Thule rack and had a tow-bar fitted to my Focus but I never liked leaving my bike on show at service stations which as an EV they would be while it's charging on some journeys unless you sit in the car while it's doing it and went back to putting them in the car.
Stock tyres were okay for me in the few days of snow we had.
Winter tires are not just for snow. A bit like dogs are not just for Xmas.
I probably live much further north than you and typical driving times the road temp is >7c
I thought dogs were just for lockdown?
Yea the road temps here have been tropical 🙄
It may be semantics but my change between summer and winter is in consumption per mile, not in battery charge as such. I have not seen my battery either take less of a charge or charge more slowly on AC in colder weather. However the consumption differences can be marked.
For a long journey I work on the basis of winter temps alone adding 10%, wind/rain can add another 10%.
For multiple short journeys the issue is compounded to bigger effects. Perhaps a lot bigger. I think the reason is largely because regenerative braking is reduced during up to the first half hour on a cold battery but then use of heating is going to be more too.
I don't think my winter tyres have a noticeable effect, all else being equal. It looks like "summer" consumption to me for any journey in decent conditions about 10°c+. There are winter tyres and winter tyres of course - mine are maybe more a UK than Skandi model.
High power DC charging can be much slower when the battery is cold, however DC charging is going to be on a journey, so after warming the battery, in nearly all cases. And UK temps aren't often that low. Only ever charging DC on a long journey, and rarely doing it at all (not once this winter) I haven't seen this myself.
NB there are things you can do to help, mostly timing charging so it finishes soonish before you drive. Then the battery is warm from charging at departure, so regen is as normal. Can also turn heating on while plugged in just before you leave, which helps mitigate effect of cold on range, but uses power to do so. I only consider these tactics if I'm doing a journey that needs the range.
Ioniq 5 does look rather nice and with Hyundai effeciency it should be very good. Is it a mini SUV or a traditional hatchback? It looks like they've kept a reasonable lid on inflating it to SUV proportions.
I took delivery of my E-Tron 50 in October, initially I was getting around 150 miles but once the cooler weather came it dropped to 140. Charging speeds didn’t change however as it’s VAG it keeps charging at full until around 80% then slowly drops off. I reckon 160 to 170 max is what I’ll get in warmer weather.
This site is very good at real world estimates
The problem with buying any of these cars is that you know that whatever you buy it will be horribly out of date in 5 years
That + the fact batteries wear out + very favourable terms + no benefit-in-kind tax was why we went for a lease rather than buy.
Certainly ours without winter tyres was awful, but did amazing once the good tyres were on.
Missus couldn't get our Leaf up our street in the snow with normal tyres.
May just be lack of experience, as we're both much more used to manual petrol/diesel cars, but she found the whole one-pedal-no-gears experience very difficult to control in snow and ice. Car developed an "e-Pedal error" message after a wheel spin and had to be reset at a garage. 😲
I have found on properly icy roads that the regen braking from lifting your foot right off the accelerator will break traction in a way that doing the same with your foot in an ICE doesn't, however that shouldn't be a surprise because you learn quickly that their "engine braking" behaviour is different, and your use of the pedals changes accordingly. Also, if you want you can adjust settings to reduce regen power in the EVs I've experienced. I haven't felt the need to but I live in the south. It's also I think the case that they tend to have very good traction control systems.
Regardless though, anything with winter tyres vs anything without is marked, as is well documented.
he’s good at imagining how existing technology could be improved ...............then using the money to hire engineers to do the hard work of making things work.
Late to the party, but can someone explain how this is an insult?
(Currently working on a time for shares basis on a startup which could do with a £million or so in funding if Elon Musk or anyone else reading fancies a punt on some workflow/process simulation software).
Ioniq 5 does look rather nice and with Hyundai effeciency it should be very good. Is it a mini SUV or a traditional hatchback? It looks like they’ve kept a reasonable lid on inflating it to SUV proportions.
Its an SUV and not all that mini- its slightly longer than a VW ID4
To Luket - have you monitored consumption? That would be interesting - I don't see why energy consumption to move the cae on a dry, windless road should be different at -10 to +10, and I don't see a difference in my experience. But add a whole load of heating and then the consumption can change. Winter tyres, not much difference i.m.e. , but wind, water and especially snow, slush make a difference, though you see that as well on ICE cars (you fuel more often).
To Graham - On a properly designed battery it looks like a battery degrades 'reverse exponential' - most in the first year, and less and less after that. I'm impressed with the state of the battery in my 5,6 year old Leaf. I was informed by someone who designs batteries that that was normal - she designs batteries for submarines, ROV's etc so is pretty well informed. There are some bad designs out there - the second Leaf battery circa 2013 doesn't degrade well.
No comment on driving on the snow... we've just had 6 weeks of continual snow cover, and I live on a private road so no proper scraping or gritting, so a couple inches packed ice. Yes, everyone is on winter tyres though, but the only car off the road was a Beemer 5. There are probably 4 leafs, 6 or 7 Teslas, an MX-30, a Kona, a couple of e-trons and we all did ok :-). Put it in eco mode, and D rather than B.
I don’t see why energy consumption to move the cae on a dry, windless road should be different at -10 to +10, and I don’t see a difference in my experience.
The internal resistance of the battery is higher when colder; they also store less energy when colder, so even with the same consumption the total energy available will be reduced. The overall power consumption when charging may not change, but more will be lost as heat (either intentionally to heat the battery or through the increased resistance).
Cold air is also more dense, increasing consumption even if there is no wind. I wouldn't be surprised if cold tyres increase resistance as well.
Even with preheating the car interior for most winter trips we still see a fairly significant range and efficiency drop when cold, especially for short trips.
I've always been e-curious, and my company is bringing in a salary sacrifice EV scheme.
I currently drive an A6 estate(PCP offer was too good to resist - no brand loyalty) and there don’t seem to be any e-estates.
I’ve followed Polestar for a few years and the P2 looks like a cross between my wife’s XC40 and my old Saab9-3, which is good. Range looks decent on it - any downsides?
People seemed to like the Polestar 2 when it first came out; I haven't heard much about it recently or seen any about yet.
MG do an electric estate that got good reviews, although is in a very different bracket from the Polestar 2; MG 5 EV
there don’t seem to be any e-estates.
Wouldn’t an e-SUV do just as well? They don’t kill baby Robins like ICE SUVs do.
People seemed to like the Polestar 2 when it first came out; I haven’t heard much about it recently or seen any about yet.
This guy’s youtube channel is practically dedicated to the Polestar 2. It’s horribly inefficient. Every vid he posted pushed me further towards an e-Niro https://youtube.com/c/ShortCircuitPS2
An e-niro would be my ideal choice; big enough but not too big, goes far enough, efficient, not hideously expensive. Too expensive for our budget, though, which is why we've got an ioniq...
I hadn't thought about the cold air... I'm on winters anyway so to some extent the difference betweeen summers and winter tyres is removed from the equation (at a given temp winters are softer). I've always assumed the problem is the battery, and getting charge into it. If I think I'll need the range I charge in the garage - there's a real difference between charging at 2C and -8.
No Polestars on my street, but there's quite a few around locally, considering how long they've been for sale. They drive well - when they offered test drives I happily had a go. Price is pretty good too. Range isn't the best though although a long way from horrible. Here's Bjorn Nylands test, and he's tested most things
Wouldn’t an e-SUV do just as well? They don’t kill baby Robins like ICE SUVs do.
I know this is miniSUV vs hatchback, not SUV vs estate, but same principle?
vauxhall corsa-e 134hp, 50kWh battery. 1530kg. range 170miles 0-60 8.1
vauxhall mokka-e 134hp, 50kWh battery. 1550kg. range 155miles 0-60 8.5
Seems with the same battery and motor (unless I'm missing something) and almost the same weight the taller car/bigger tyres of the SUV make it slower to acclerate and less efficient.
Shame because the two tone paint of the Mokka in launch edition is the first good looking vauxhall since the monaro.
My i3 seemed to cope well in the snow until the deep stuff in the work car park where it got stuck!
As for the really cold weather, seemed to take longer to charge (via plug socket) and when fully charged the range dropped from around 150 to 110/120. Putting the heater up (or down too low) makes the range drop but general consumption seems very similar. Seems BMW have got their tech sorted when it comes to range as you always know what to expect and any changes you make show up very quickly.
Work colleague of mine volunteers as a blood biker. Blood bikers is a bit of a misnomer as they actually have blood drivers as well. They were given an i3 by BMW to trial. In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice and the wheels locked resulting on loss of control of the car- and these guys are experienced drivers. Needless to say they sent it back to BMW. Guess the combination of light weight narrow wheels and crap energy saver tyres was the problem.
In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice and the wheels locked resulting
Having driven my i3 in the snow a couple of times now it’s something to be aware of but not really an issue. Lifting off the accelerator a bit more gently than usual is all that’s needed.
Trying to provoke it I managed to get the rear end to twitch slightly but the TC soon sorts it out.
My i3 seemed to cope well in the snow until the deep stuff in the work car park where it got stuck!
Mine was surprisingly fine too. First morning it snowed wife was driving home from nightshift and did get stuck on a steep hill when the car ahead of her stopped, reached for the Traction Control button and.... yeah it hasn’t got one 😞
Now we’ve found it in the menus and set it up on a shortcut button - worth doing if you haven’t.
With it in “Traction” mode it generally keeps moving and we haven’t got stuck again yet.
Hoping to move to full electric next car via company car. Have had hybrid a few years ago and so aware of their limitations.
e SUVs seem a bit daft. Adding all that extra height and air resistance.
Ideally I’d want a mid to large sleek estate with 350 mile range from a quality car maker like polestar or bmw that has Tesla like charging infrastructure. Might be waiting a while .....
I think the suv is a popular platform for electric cars at the moment, because the extra height helps accommodate the batteries. Plus lots of people want them at the moment, so they know they’re going to sell them.
I had my Podpoint installed last week, and I’m expecting delivery of an A250e in 2 weeks time. It’s a company car and I went PHEV to get me used to plugging in, using public charging points and just generally trying to get everywhere on electric, but with the ICE comfort blanket. Range is 44 miles, and the forum guys get anything from mid 30s up to early 40s. Should see me to work and back.
Wouldn’t an e-SUV do just as well? They don’t kill baby Robins like ICE SUVs do.
vauxhall corsa-e 134hp, 50kWh battery. 1530kg. range 170miles 0-60 8.1
vauxhall mokka-e 134hp, 50kWh battery. 1550kg. range 155miles 0-60 8.5
The extra size here is knocking c.10% off quoted range and I suspect if your real world driving is higher average speed than the test then the real world difference will be a greater percentage (isn't wind resistance proportional to speed squared?).
Range is more often important on one long journey than lots of short ones. And the long journey probably uses faster roads for longer. So my suspicion is that the SUV disadvantage is somewhat more in reality.
And on baby robins, SUV/hatch is still x% more in consumption and y% more resources used in manufacture. So the extent to which an electric SUV is worse than an electric hatch is going to be similar to the extent to which an ICE SUV is worse than an ICE hatch.
Also on those vauxhall numbers, 294Wh/mile (Corsa) doesn't look very good for a small car - that's Tesla Model S territory. I suspect some manufacturers (eg Hyundai and Tesla) have achieved a lot more on this than others. So I'd hazard a guess that consumption of e-niro, Kona etc Vs Mokka would show a stark contrast in real world use.
I think the suv is a popular platform for electric cars at the moment, because the extra height helps accommodate the batteries. Plus lots of people want them at the moment, so they know they’re going to sell them.
I think it's all the latter point and pretty much none of the former, sadly.
@wbo yeah I have to a point monitored consumption. I have a data logging thing - teslafi - that produces a graph for this. But I'm ashamed to say I never worked out how to post photos! And my data set is limited of course. Anyway, mine shows about a 10% difference going from 5° to 15°. About 15% comparing the below 5° to over 15° averages.
Lots of cars referred to as SUVs like the eniro are just slightly raised hatchbacks with some chunkier stying cues. A Panda is taller, Zoe is taller, ID.3 is taller.
Awlso on those vauxhall numbers, 294Wh/mile (Corsa) doesn’t look very good for a small car – that’s Tesla Model S territory. I suspect some manufacturers (eg Hyundai and Tesla) have achieved a lot more on this than others. So I’d hazard a guess that consumption of e-niro, Kona etc Vs Mokka would show a stark contrast in real world use.
I'm getting a real world no special hypermiling 4 miles/kWh (250kWh/mile) out of a Hyundai Kona SUV in winter and I notice the efficiency is creeping up with the warmer weather. I haven't driven it in spring summer yet but people regularly get 5 miles/kWh (200Wh/mile) out of Konas/e-Niros so still killing way less baby Robins than the Corsa hatch so at the moment the drivetrain efficiency between manufacturers is more important than body style. I prefer SUV anyway because of the higher driving position and they're easier to get in and out of.
In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice and the wheels locked resulting on loss of control of the car- and these guys are experienced drivers.
Can't say it's something I noticed tbh.
In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice and the wheels locked resulting
Assuming you are a fairly smooth driver, you’ll get better range/efficiency turning regen down/off. Converting excess kinetic energy into electrical energy, chemical energy in the battery, back to electrical energy then back to kinetic energy results in losses at every stage. Leaving bigger gaps, taking your foot off the gas well in advance of junctions/roundabouts will mean you don’t need to keep scrubbing off speed and wasting energy.
Leaving bigger gaps, taking your foot off the gas well in advance of junctions/roundabouts will mean you don’t need to keep scrubbing off speed and wasting energy.
You don't really need to take away the option of using regen to achieve this, you can just do it with your foot. Then you've got regen for when you do find you want it, like the last bit of deceleration to a junction, or a descent. Best of both worlds. My foot doesn't come all the way off very often until at a near standstill. It may not be a true neutral coast but it's so close as makes little difference.
Even used little, regen remains an important benefit of EVs/hybrids IMO.
Yes coasting in the Mitsubishi hybrid I had for a time was more efficient but it had a cool paddle to quickly click up the regency when you could use it like approaching junction or long steep downhills.
You don’t really need to take away the option of using regen to achieve this, you can just do it with your foot. Then you’ve got regen for when you do find you want it, like the last bit of deceleration to a junction, or a descent. Best of both worlds. My foot doesn’t come all the way off very often until at a near standstill. It may not be a true neutral coast but it’s so close as makes little difference.
Even used little, regen remains an important benefit of EVs/hybrids IMO.
You can still use the regen when you press the brake pedal gently, which is beneficial as you are recycling some energy instead of wasting in heat in the brakes. I just find it a bit daft that it effectively brakes every time you lift your foot off the accelerator, whether you need to brake or not, much better to maintain speed if possible. I accept you might be able to minimise this by lifting the pedal more slowly but probably not fully. I guess they want to emulate some of the engine braking effect of an ICE at the cost of some efficiency.
I think it’s all the latter point and pretty much none of the former, sadly.
No, it’s both. Audi used the Q range platform for the E-Tron as allowed them to sit batteries underneath then drop the body on top.
You can still use the regen when you press the brake pedal gently, which is beneficial as you are recycling some energy instead of wasting in heat in the brakes. I just find it a bit daft that it effectively brakes every time you lift your foot off the accelerator, whether you need to brake or not, much better to maintain speed if possible. I accept you might be able to minimise this by lifting the pedal more slowly but probably not fully. I guess they want to emulate some of the engine braking effect of an ICE at the cost of some efficiency.
Different strokes for different folks I reckon. So long as you can set up the car so that you have max regen available to you and can control it, it's just choice. For me though, a move away from "one pedal driving" is a missed opportunity. Different cars have different ways of doing it - many are all motor control on the accelerator, including regen, and all friction brake control on the brake pedal. This doesn't give what you describe but it does carry the advantage of giving you complete control to use regen for all your braking.
In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice and the wheels locked resulting
I'm really surprised by this because when a battery is that cold it will reject a mode B charge and the "engine braking" is inexistant or pathetic.
Dropping down from the ski resort when it's cold enough for snow on the road the first thing I get is a big warning display telling me the battery is too cold for regen braking. As it warms up I get mode D regen which is similar to the engine braking from a petrol car but mode B doesn't reappear until the temperature is significantly positive.
Something sensible on the environmental impact of elctric versus ICE for once:
You deem it sensible because it backs up your pre-existing beliefs 🙂
They were given an i3 by BMW to trial. In the recent cold weather a number of their drivers had brown alert moments when the regen cut in in snow/ice
Sounds like crap software to me, my Prius has never done this in 15 years.
It's objective rather than something dreamed up by a marketing company working for the oil or ICE industry to discredit Electric cars. No smiley.
Check out my post on real world experience of driving an EV in snow and ice and consider it may be just more anti-EV bollocks rather than a software issue, Molgrips. It hasn't been raised as an issue by i3 owners on here.
IME if it's cold enough for snow and ice on the road the battery won't accept a high enough charge rate to provoke excessive regen braking, that simple. The 52kWh Zoé regens at 36KW (or maybe more, I'm just quoting the highest number I've noticed) at 25°C but doesn't even get to 8KW when it's been left out overnight in sub-zero temperatures.
Perhaps other owners can quote the highest charge rate they get sub-zero and how that feels in terms of braking. The bigger the battery the more regen braking I'd expect.
Our Model 3 will break traction with regen on snow and ice. I've only had to drive it a couple of times in such conditions but with the regen set to high and a moderate (not complete) lift off it will break traction. The battery was probably quite warm from de-icing/cabin heating while sat on the drive. If I have to drive in such conditions again I will definitely be switching the regen to the lower setting.
Aside from that it handled OKish in the snow, especially given the sports orientated 20 inch tyres on the Performance model (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S). We got up a moderate incline with a lot of fresh snow on it and there were a couple of hatchbacks/saloons behind me that didn't make it. Having 4WD and a motor at each end with the 'skateboard' battery pack no doubt helped things and if you were just breaking traction at each corner the car would move around a bit but scrabble up the hill quite nicely.
Don't get me wrong, its a 2 tonne car and I wouldn't want to lose it going downhill (like that bloke in Glasgow the other week!) but it handled pretty well. With a set of winter boots I expect it would be very good indeed.
"Break traction" is one thing and to be expected with a warm battery in mode B, but "the wheels locked resulting" is what's being claimed by some. Checking on forums the Zoé isn't the only EV that freewheels below about 10kmh making wheel "locking" with regen impossible. The wheels can be made to turn lower than road speed but not lock.
Breaking traction with engine breaking isn't unique to EVs, years back my 2.5d Ducato would do it if deliberately provoked, but you don't do you , you drive to the conditions and avoid violent inputs on slippy surfaces.
THe ICE reflex when a car got the bags on in snow and ice was "clutch down and steer". Experience with the Zoé so far is "steer", if the battery is warm I'll make that "mode D and steer".
Have we done this yet?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a35410999/clean-hydrogen-goop-powerpaste/
Hydrogen stored in a paste at room temperature and pressure with cheap materials, that you can then release and use in a fuel cell. Ten times the energy density of lithium batteries apparently.
Trouble with hydrogen is by the time you've electrolysed water to make the hydrogen, compressed it, transported it to the filling station then used the fuel cell in the FCEV to convert it back into electricity you've got he same efficiency as a decent diesel but maybe a bit cleaner depending on what's powering your grid. Much more efficient to generate the electricity push it down a cable with minimal losses straight into an EV battery. Having said that it may be a solution to HGV electrification.
This passage from the article you linked gives the reasons the paste stuff will never take off
"This technology sounds really promising and special, but there are huge logistical steps in terms of preparing the paste, manufacturing cartridges for it to go in, and making the refueling and disposal or recycling infrastructure for the spent cartridges of mostly magnesium."
I've had a flick through some of the older posts on this thread, can anyone give some details about these "getting it through work" deals that seem to slash the price ridiculously?
I think people have got rid of my SUV objection, so I'm currently eyeing up the Mach-E and Polestar as vehicles compatible with my work and MTBing.
If you can get a BEV through your company car scheme then your benefit in kind is 0% this financial year then 1% year after and 2% year after that.
If you run a business and buy a car with less than 50g CO2 per mile then you can deduct the whole cost of the vehicle from your pre-tax profits. That's why you are going to see a lot of Porsche Taycans around
It depends on your employer and the exact nature of the scheme. Generally speaking it's some sort of salary sacrifice lease scheme where you can save quite of lot of tax depending on your tax bracket on the monthly cost, and for EVs the BIK is currently 0% so you're not going to get a tax hit from that angle either (BIK gradually steps up to 1% for 2021/22 and 2% after that I think) because most (all?) are classed as company cars (even if you're not entitled to a co car and you pay the monthly payments - that's the case for me anyway).
Then, depending on the scheme you may not have to pay a deposit and the insurance, maintenance, etc. is often bundled into 1 monthly price. Add in some cheap/free fuel and it can be very attractive.