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the E208 is about 3m/kw for us
I think you must have a Friday afternoon car.☹️ I have a colleague who regularly gets 3.5 - 4.5 mpKWH out of an E2008, a bigger, heavier car, journey dependant of course.
What’s the thoughts on the current lack of availability and costs? If they become more available will the costs go down at all?
My company’s nervous about committing to a lease 8 months out in case unforseeen circumstances leave them with a car they don’t want, and I’d be committing to a current spec EV6 at the current lease prices until March 2026.
I’m kinda thinking I might wait a year and see what’s available then, there could be more options, better batteries, specs and lower lease prices maybe?
Availability is dependent on world politics, but seems a lot better for Korean, Chinese cars than German made ones. There's a big backlog on chips which will take time to clear out.
Batteries are already massively reduced compared to 10 or even 5 years ago so I don't think they can go much lower. They will always improve, and there will always be more options, but think incremental.
Lease prices, no idea. How d othey tie to interest rates?
Prices have gone up by around 20-30% on my Zenith car scheme dependent on the (electric) car. My numbers had it as costing me around £5.6k extra on a 3 year deal or similar to paying 40-44% of the forecourt price as opposed to around ~30% in December 2021.
Just look at the market - there's a lack of hire cars, a lack of second hand cars and more EVs were registered in Q1 of 2022 than in the previous 4 YEARS combined. Coupled with a lack of EVs entering the market - competition is high, deals are few.
A friends 1 year old Tesla M3 LR is worth £3k more than they paid for it a year ago. Not BEFORE the price hike - AFTER. Says it all really.
looking at options through a salary sacrifice deal with Tusker through work. My current PCP on my Q5 goes to Feb 24 so I have lots of time to decide, right....... oh, wait, a Q4 Etron, which I quite fancy is 77 week lead time....gulp, better get thinking next few months.. Some others, Model Y for one, are quoting a year plus too.
I look at the list price of EVs (and more widely, vechicles in general) here in the UK, then look at the US...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-f-150-lightning-563bhp-ev-pick-stars-manhattan
563bhp, 775lb ft, 2200lbs, 230-300 mile range, 0-60 4.0sec and starting at the equivalent of £28,200. It's an utterly vile pick-up of course, but all that for similar cost to Leafs, MINIs, Honda e, etc.
Yes EVs there are cheaper and there's a bigger government grant.
I think this is because demand is stratospheric here still and way outstrips supply, so they are priced accordingly. The above comments about 18+ month lead times even at current high prices shows that. But the US prices suggest to me* that there is room for them to drop much lower than they are now. And production capacity will come online. This is why I won't get another when ours goes back next year and we'll rely on busses and a bit of diesel for a couple of years.
* I am not an economist though
Well, I think that’s what we’ll do. The banger is on Euro 4 so that could be an issue if Sadiq Khans proposal to extend the emission zone to the m25 happens, but we may have to keep it for a year, or even swap,it for a cheap petrol runaround while we wait for the EV.
Seems little point in signing up now to a car I only half want and paying over the odds for it for 3 years.
563bhp, 775lb ft, 2200lbs, 230-300 mile range, 0-60 4.0sec and starting at the equivalent of £28,200. It’s an utterly vile pick-up of course, but all that for similar cost to Leafs, MINIs, Honda e, etc.
That would be easily be £50k+ if it were being sold here
That would be easily be £50k+ if it were being sold here
If you adjust the GBP price for a realistic exchange rate instead of the 1.41 that they use, add on the £10k US grant and add taxes we are in the same ballpark but it is a lot of car for the money if true.
If you adjust the GBP price for a realistic exchange rate instead of the 1.41 that they use, add on the £10k US grant and add taxes we are in the same ballpark but it is a lot of car for the money if true.
Erm - it's a £4.6k ($7.5k) grant and average state tax is 5%. Which means their driveaway price is <$30k.
The Mustang Mach E is £40k in the UK or $40k in the US after taxes and grants, So still 25% cheaper.
I think you must have a Friday afternoon car.
The early 208s were not the most efficient EVs. Peugeot soon changed the tyres, final drive ratio and heater/heat pump to gain 20 or so kms on the official test cycle. They were less than honest in the marketing of it IMO. Other manufacturers give the useable battery capacity rather than the total. For example the current Zoé 50 has a few kWh more than the declared 51kWH and the current Zoé 40 has exactly the same battery as the 50 but with much reduced useable capacity to make it last longer.
As for the tech issues that Mark has noted, they are are specific to Peugeot as other manufacturers have found better solutions.
Erm – it’s a £4.6k ($7.5k) grant and average state tax is 5%
Interested to know who is getting an exchange rate of 1.64 dollars to the £, lets call it £6k :-). VAT is our cross to bear so not relevant in comparing prices, Americans make up for this in many other forms of tax. The Daily Mail and Express can ignore VAT to make a point but I don't think we should. There are various state grants in addition to the federal grant and I heard quoted a $12.5k number somewhere 'all in' but I am not sure if there is a good method to verify that.
As I said it is still a great deal if true.
A ‘tyre tax’ will need to be imposed on electric cars to combat poor air quality in cities, the Government’s top clear air adviser has claimed.
The chairman of the Government's independent science advisory group on air pollution said charges for low-emission zones are likely to be replaced with alternative levies as drivers switch to electric vehicles.
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Who's he being financed by? Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
An attempt at finding out who funds Professor Alastair Lewis stopped at "private benefactor".
The York university Wolfson institute he works at :
We support clients including BP, TOTAL, Unilever, Givaudan, Du Pont, and DSTL
Don't like the message. First reaction attack the messenger. It is well known that tyre wear produces harmful pollution.
Is DEFRA neutral enough for you?
Data from the UK National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory (NAEI) indicate that
emissions of non-exhaust particles from road transport already exceed those from the
exhaust, and their proportion is projected to increase in the future. Therefore, to achieve
further improvements to PM2.5 and PM10 air quality relating to road transport sources requires
attention to reducing NEE, and not solely on approaches focused on lowering exhaust
emissions
Because fossil cars don't have tyre wear?
And tyre wear is less significant at the lower urban speeds. I can't see EV tyre wear being a significant contributor to urban AQ emissions.
I'm calling bollocks on the claim that:
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes,
In itself the claim lacks detail. I don't contest that tyre particles are unhealthy what I contest is that they are more dangerous to public health given the disparity in volumes of tyre particles and the volumes of nano and ultra-fine particles produced by diesel engines. Which just so happen to be the most dangerous to health, are not monitored and aren't stopped by the filter.
So now instead of just driving EVs we now need to ban rubber tyres too?
This is the same claptrap as the "EVs make more brake dust" rubbish regularily spouted by people who have never driven an EV and don't realise you just about never engage the friction brakes because you can regen.
If tyre wear in town is an issue, then it can be reduced for all means of transport by
1) introducing maximium acceleration rate ie no more booting away from the lights
2) introducing maximum corner speeds - no more rocketing round corners
the future sounds like fun doesn't it......
That DEFRA report is using some spurious data. By 2025, almost 75% of UK car and commercial vehicle sales are now likely to be EVs. As pointed out above, you barely use the brakes on EVs, so why does brake dust particle production INCREASE out to 2030? It will drop to almost nothing.
Anecdotal evidence - my i3 has done 65k miles and is still on its original lightweight discs and pads.
If it's from the Telegraph, then the usual gong-farmers will have had their input.
Classic "They're looking to cut emissions, even your tyres aren't safe. Better drop pledges for net-zero, that'll show them".
Who’s he being financed by? Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
I'm not saying that plastic shed by tyres aren't a problem, it's just that the Telegraph has form for this sort of thing of late.
My 10-year-old Dacia Lodgy is also still on its original hardly worn discs and pads, but that is down to driving style. On my Samba rally car it was a set every couple of hundred miles.
I've done a bit of reading around and have come to the conclusion that at chemical engineer is not the best person to be making bold statement about the respecitve impact of tyre particles and diesel particles on health. Doctors took decades to prove smoking cigarettes was a problem, lead in petrol was a problem, radio activity is nastier than initially thought etc. etc. whilst fighting other doctors working for the tobaco industry, motor lobby, nuclear lobby etc. etc. and their red herrings. Empirically nano/ultra fine diesel particles containing a number of proven carcinogens are the health issue we should be addessing first because we can. Go EV.
well, order placed this morning with Tusker through work. 77 week delivery on an Audi Q4 etron, which will be a few months before end of current PCP !
I will need to have a think about best option for getting a home charger installed..
I would expect a slight increase in tyre particulates in towns due to EVs being overall slightly heavier, but I wouldn't expect much. But I'm not an air quality expert.
The lack of brake activation is actually causing issues with brakes when you do need them.
Actually have data showing that a significant percentage of users can go an entire service interval and only activate friction brakes a countable (fingers and toes) number of times. Usually at low speed as well, so not putting any heat into the discs. So there are processes in place to try and fix/mitigate against this.
Tyre wear is a funny one. Lots of things increase wear, (torque, weight) but others can reduce it if done properly (lower centre of gravity so less roll and pitch, better torque control during launch and deceleration etc etc) do it wrong and you can make it worse though.
Interesting. I tried flooring my Ioniq from a standstill on a dry road and it really backed off the power until I was up to about 20mph, pretty much eliminating the possibility of wheelspin. I didn't hear any slipping or see a traction light so I don't think it was traction control doing it. Might explain why the car seems to accelerate 30-60 far quicker than it's published 0-60 time would suggest.
Iain C - I’m interested in your decision making, don’t you think that there may be better EV options available within your 77 month wait rather than committing to a Q4 now?
77 week delivery estimate on an Audi Q4 etron
FTFY. Hey, who knows, it might get shorter as supply chains get better and VAG get more efficient in their EV manufacture.
Kryton57
Full Member
Iain C – I’m interested in your decision making, don’t you think that there may be better EV options available within your 77 month wait rather than committing to a Q4 now?
good point, the way the Tusker deal works is that you can cancel right up till near delivery date so no risks in it. Its 77 weeks, not months 🙂
Aha, ok thanks. Part of my decision was the fact the dealer has a £500 cancellation/change fee.
The lack of brake activation is actually causing issues with brakes when you do need them.
I always use friction braking for my first slowdown of the day for just this reason. Scrub the surface of corrosion/contaminant and get a bit of heat into the pads.
Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
Have you actually read the article?
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Known as “particulate matter (PM) 2.5”, the amount of air pollution is growing because motorists are driving ever larger vehicles with more substantial tyres.
Now I agree, it does sound spurious but lets not forget the equal amount of derision when people were being told wood burners were "bad"* not that many years ago.
As for funding, he works for the National Centre for Atmospheric Science which is itself funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and UK Research and Innovation. Given those are the credentials given in the article I'd expect that's who is speaking for as otherwise he'd be getting his baws rattled.
I’ve done a bit of reading around and have come to the conclusion that at chemical engineer is not the best person to be making bold statement about the respecitve impact of tyre particles and diesel particles on health.
Oh but of course, you are 🙄
Perhaps once you get a paper on the subject published in a journal you can start telling other folk how to do their job but until then...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231021004143?via%3Dihub
*bad under the same condisions as a diesel engine
I always use friction braking for my first slowdown of the day for just this reason. Scrub the surface of corrosion/contaminant and get a bit of heat into the pads.
Which car? As many EVs you don't have the option to do this. Unless you slam the brakes on and exceed the limit for regen.
You can reduce the deceleration rate at zero pedal (One Pedal Drive) but you can't choose where the braking torque comes from.
Doesn’t Daffy just mean they use the brake pedal to stop ?
In most newer EV platforms launched over the last handful of years, using the brake pedal just requests regen from the motors. You have to properly stamp on it to get the friction brakes to start moving.
Early EVs had brake pedal = friction brakes. Now, not so much.
From the article abstract
The introduction of battery electric vehicles is concluded to have only a small effect on overall road traffic particle emissions
Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway). I suspect my 1.8 tonne Kia e-Niro outputs less tyre and brake particulate than a 2.2 tonne ICE BMW X5
I found this passage interesting. Shows how well exhaust catalysts work these days
Emissions from solvents in screen wash and de-icers now dominate VOC emissions from traffic in the UK, and exhibit a very different composition to exhaust VOC emissions.
.
Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway). I suspect my 1.8 tonne Kia e-Niro outputs less tyre and brake particulate than a 2.2 tonne ICE BMW X5
Sure, but your e-niro is about the same size as my c-max, which weighs 1.3 tonnes.
Which car? As many EVs you don’t have the option to do this. Unless you slam the brakes on and exceed the limit for regen.
BMW i3. Regen is from lifting off the accelerator. Using the brake pedal activates the friction brakes.
Sure, but your e-niro is about the same size as my c-max, which weighs 1.3 tonnes.
And your point is?
Like I said in my post "Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway)"
So what should we do? Keep driving 1.3 tonne C-Max carbon dioxide generators?
I always use friction braking for my first slowdown of the day for just this reason. Scrub the surface of corrosion/contaminant and get a bit of heat into the pads.
I think my car does this anyway as the discs do get scrubbed clean of rust on every drive.
Doesn’t Daffy just mean they use the brake pedal to stop ?
No, because...
In most newer EV platforms launched over the last handful of years, using the brake pedal just requests regen from the motors. You have to properly stamp on it to get the friction brakes to start moving.
This, but from what I've read this has always been the case even from the first hybrids. On my 2006 Prius light braking was regenerative, and it transitioned to friction brakes when more force was required. Interestingly this happens at different braking force at different speeds, because the braking force available for regenration is dependent on the current you're generating which is dependent on speed. So at lower speeds there is much less regenerative braking available. On the Prius the friction brakes always came in about 7mph or less.
Yeah, that's the only one i could think of off the top of my head.
The friction brakes add deceleration over and above what the motor is producing at zero accelerator pedal. But, OTOH it's a 9 year old design now that's had virtually no updates other than bigger batteries since it was launched.
Regen is from lifting off the accelerator. Using the brake pedal activates the friction brakes.
Are you sure about this? It seems like a shockingly bad design.
A quick google leads to the bmw forum. I3 brake pedal gives regen first then friction brake when no more regen can be used.
Like other cars.
Yep - it’s how I thought most EVs worked. My current MG 5 has an Eco gauge instead of Rev counter, which shows whether you are using or regenerating. Hard braking pushes the needle deeper into the regen zone.
From the article abstract
The introduction of battery electric vehicles is concluded to have only a small effect on overall road traffic particle emissions
Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway).
I don't think that says what you think it does, the way I read it there is an issue because the emissions that are supposed to be decreasing aren't.
So what should we do? Keep driving 1.3 tonne C-Max carbon dioxide generators?
A fair question, the answer being 'it depends'. Mostly on the carbon footprint of the EV and the power generated to power it. That's before you get into the sustainability of either system. Of course an eNiro or whatever isn't much bigger inside than a Fiesta so although it's the size of a C Max it has none of the utility.
Then again,as the power density of batteries improves weights should decrease. Improvements could already be made to drag coefficients but since everyone is wedded to the idea that EVs have to be that shape that ain't gonna happen (of course that's ignoring all those Tesla's and MG 5's).
Known as “particulate matter (PM) 2.5”,
Now check out the graph I posted on the previous page about what diesels now produce most of since filters were added. Stuff much finer than that. He fails because he's comparing the components in what's measured which doesn't include the finest particles. He's not finding most of the particles that diesels emit and then comparing with tyres which don't have a particle filter on any particle size at all and what they do produce fall in the range he is collecting.
Early EVs had brake pedal = friction brakes. Now, not so much.
Dunno what you mean by early but my 2016 (ie 6 year old) Zoe will regen on application of the brake pedal until you ask for either: more braking power than regen can provide, which is significant; or are below a speed that regen can operate, around 5mph ime.
Leafs are the same
Are you sure about this? It seems like a shockingly bad design.
It is.
Early Tesla Model S did it like that, a software update fixed it.
Dunno what you mean by early
Generally depends what generation and brand of brake controller they were using and how much they were willing to pay for updates!
The torque blending functions between motor and friction brakes were notoriously tricky. Especially around zero motor torque.
Now check out the graph I posted on the previous page about what diesels now produce most of since filters were added
It's an interesting graph sure.
So are the two papers it's contextual in. Worth a read.
And your point is?
That comparing apples with oranges led to you making an erroneous point.
So what should we do? Keep driving 1.3 tonne C-Max carbon dioxide generators?
Are you saying I should dispose of a perfectly good car just to go electric? For context, me and my wife share one car and do 6000 miles per year.
Of course an eNiro or whatever isn’t much bigger inside than a Fiesta
I test drove a Kona EV which I believe is the same platform as an eNiro and it was much bigger than a Fiesta, at least the one my parents had. Probably slightly a Golf in the front and a fair bit bigger in back.
dantsw13
Free MemberA quick google leads to the bmw forum. I3 brake pedal gives regen first then friction brake when no more regen can be used.
Nope - you completely misinterpreted it. It’s the act of stopping accelerating that triggers the regen. Once the little indicator on the dash which display throttle position moves beyond the 6oclock position, you’re no longer coasting or accelerating your decelerating using the motor. The longer you’re off the throttle, the more aggressive the deceleration becomes. If I keep my foot on the accelerator and tap the brakes, it triggers the friction brakes just like a normal car.
The i3 is driven like true 1 pedal driving. You never touch the brake pedal. You don’t need to unless it’s an emergency, which means when you touch the brake pedal without the accelerator pressed, you’ll get the decelerations from the accelerator position AND the friction brakes.
So after it’s been raining and the car has been sat, I can coast off the drive and use the regen which means I’ll arrive at my destination with slightly corroded discs or I can gently brake as I go down the hill to the end of my road and then use regen for the rest of the journey which means I’ll arrive with shiny brakes.
There’s no means of adjusting regen on an i3
Of course an eNiro or whatever isn’t much bigger inside than a Fiesta
The crap people post on this thread when 30sec Googling would tell them a Fiesta has 1093 litres with the rear seats down and an e-Niro has 1405 litres. Your definition of "isn't much bigger" is a little different from mine. How much bigger does it need to be before its considered significantly bigger?
Fair point, an e-Niro is actually between a Fiesta and C Max with the seats up. Which is the important metric really since hardly anyone drives around with the seats down all the time. I'd classify that as not much bigger, especially if you want to consider their respective boot opening heights.
I'm going with raw dimensions here, litres are just a salesmans trick as they are effectively meaningless unless you are carrying yoga balls filled with water or loose packing peanuts.
https://www.ridc.org.uk/features-reviews/out-and-about/choosing-car/car/fiesta-5dr-hatch-2019
(yes, I know it lists the e-Niro as a saloon but the Niro of the same shape was also listed that way, go figure)
That comparing apples with oranges led to you making an erroneous point.
The point I'm making is that my EV is probably generating less tyre particles than a heavier ICE vehicle, and its certainly generating much less brake dust.
Your C-Max is lighter than my vehicle but so what? By all means keep driving it until it expires but your post came across like we should keep driving ICE just because they might generate less tyre particulates than EVs. So do you agree we have to ditch the ICE or not?
The point I’m making is that my EV is probably generating less tyre particles than a heavier ICE vehicle, and its certainly generating much less brake dust.
The actual point is that your car generates more tyre particles than a conventional vehicle of similar size.
So do you agree we have to ditch the ICE or not?
Who's we? If you're asking me then no, I don't think there's much logic in replacing my car right now simply to move to an EV. Other use cases are available.
Fair point, an e-Niro is actually between a Fiesta and C Max with the seats up.
I had a good look at my friend's e-niro. It's about the same inside as my c-max but the boot is smaller.
@Daffy I still think that's a poor design. You have to decide whether or not you want to waste energy, according to your description; whereas in other cars you just drive as normal and it takes care of the energy management for you as well as the cleaning of the brakes.
In other cars that offer single pedal driving it is configurable, as far as I know so you can drive how you want rather than how the manufacturer wants you to.
I had a good look at my friend’s e-niro. It’s about the same inside as my c-max but the boot is smaller.
That's what I was trying to say but badly, I was comparing load spaces. Also realise that was never what I said in the first place so, er, yeah.
In my limited defence, if I actually had a decent viewable screen area without paying for the privilege I'd be able to keep track of what I'm writing better. Cest la vie.
I wouldn’t knock it until you’ve tried it - it’s a very intuitive system. My 10 year old can drive it around our field and had the knack of it in minutes.
I don’t see how it’s wasteful? Unless I specifically choose to, we’re recuperating for more than >99%. And in almost every circumstance, when you’re braking, you’re not accelerating, so by default, it’s recovering energy.
My youngest daughter is currently having her first driving lesson today- in a Kona Electric. With luck she'll never have to drive an ICE car if we can find her a cheapish Zoe, Leaf or i3. There's a new generation of drivers coming who will never drive an ICE.
That’s what I was trying to say but badly, I was comparing load spaces. Also realise that was never what I said in the first place so, er, yeah
I was a bit disappointed, the e-niro seemed like an ideal replacement when the time comes, but there's no way I can get all our camping gear/ family luggage in the boot.
I was a bit disappointed, the e-niro seemed like an ideal replacement when the time comes, but there’s no way I can get all our camping gear/ family luggage in the boot.
Don't know if makes a difference but when the e-Niro boot floor is removed there's a fair bit of extra storage but to be fair probably still not as much a a C-Max.
The actual point is that your car generates more tyre particles than a conventional vehicle of similar size.
My EV tyre wear after 1 year seems to be about the same as an ICE car but on average maybe an EV does produce more tyre particles but the argument is moot seeing ICE cars will be disappearing.
the argument is moot seeing ICE cars will be disappearing.
Time will tell, still a long way to go yet. I really hope they do but ICE will still be around for a while yet IMO, too many use cases for them.
There’s a new generation of drivers coming who will never drive an ICE.
Yes - the ones with rich parents.
More and more young folk just don't bother doing their test now.
Yes – the ones with rich parents.
Give it 10 years and there will be plenty of cheaper EVs on the secondhand market.
Also I don't think young people not learning to drive has anything to do with the cost of second hand EVs.
So, a question please. I’ll need to get a home charger installed in the next year. The Audi recommended one is a 7kW pod Point, which they quote as about £800 installed.
I guess there are many better alternatives ?
I used to have a Pod Point and it was absolutely fine. It was smart enough so you could set a charging schedule via the app and the app gave good info on electricity usage so you could easily separate electricity for the car from electricity for the home. I sold it and got a myenergi Zappi simply because I had in the meantime installed a solar array and the Zappi is able to automatically divert excess solar generation to charge the car which the Pod Point couldn't do . So if you have a solar array or intend to install one in the future I'd recommend a Zappi but if not the Pod Point will be fine.
Good to know, thanks
Also I don’t think young people not learning to drive has anything to do with the cost of second hand EVs.
Did I say it did ...
Cost of personal transport on the whole being prohibitive more like
I have an Ohme charger which is good. Lots of options for configuring charging, integrates with Octopus variable tariff and a fair few cars. Also has its own 4G rather than needing WiFi.
Ford have already said that the key battleground for electrification will be fought in the sub $25k market.
Just like with all other technologies, the price will come down once economies of scale kick in.
Ford have similarly highlighted that 40% less workstations and 20% less fasteners to build a typical EV once designed as a pure EV and so labour rates and tooling costs will drop.
Battery simulation technology through multiphysics simulation has just about been cracked which will allow modelling to alleviate build and test requirements, thus reducing the RnD cost and allowing manufacturers to extract more from the package.
Lucid have a plan for a sub £25k electric car with 240hp and 300mile range using a battery pack that's less than 50kWh, essentially achieving 6m/kWh from their efficient cells and motor in a lightweight package. They also believe sub £20k is possible using the same motor, but with a 30kWh pack which still gives around 180miles of range. With rapid charging, would you really need more? Perfect second/city/commute/occasional bib trip car.
Ford have already said that the key battleground for electrification will be fought in the sub $25k market.
Maybe, but before that the battleground will be who can secure the most battery production capacity. No point in being able to build a $25k car if you can't make batteries for it.
essentially achieving 6m/kWh from their efficient cells and motor in a lightweight package.
Mercedes EQXX concept can achieve 7 miles/kWh and a carefully driven Hyundai Ioniq Electric could nudge 6 miles/kWh.
Electirc drivetrain is now better than 95% efficient so difficult to improve on that. I think like you mentioned the biggest future advances in EV will be in battery chemistry and battery management.
Mercedes EQXX concept can achieve 7 miles/kWh and a carefully driven Hyundai Ioniq Electric could nudge 6 miles/kWh.
Both of those are extremes. The EQXX is using highly specialised and expensive equipment, the Ioniq 5s WLTP is 303 miles from a 77kWh pack with real range of around 260, so under 4m/kWh. Lucid are claiming real range on production equipment at prices under £25k. There’s a world of difference between what you posted and what I stated. IF it can be pulled off, you’d need less batteries, thus alleviating some of the production difficulties. It would be nice if we can get back to really efficient cars, not gargantuan things with enough performance to outrun an M3 and carrying the battery capacity to do a journey that only happens twice per year.
Electric motors are approaching 95% efficiency, Tesla have gone from 80>90>94%, but that’s not the only source of loss. Resistance in the pack and electronics are another as are thermal properties in different regions and efficiency losses at different speeds. There’s more to be had.
On the Tesla Model 3 the brake pedal just does... uh, brakes. Regen is on the accelerator pedal.