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I can’t see why Tesla would want to charge less
Demonstrate to prospective Tesla owners that they have the network and the cars. Great advertising, especially if it's cheaper than Ionity.
Are there any free charging networks in England, like ChargePlace Scotland?
I have to use the home charger maybe once a month - free charging rest of the time.
my house is almost free 🙂
pod-point fitted last weeknd and will off peak charging its costing around £3-4 quid for a full charge. thats 300-250 miles, granted we cant do that in one hit, it takes a couple of nights be it hardly ever going need to charge from empty. the yeti would cost me at least 50quid for that
Are there any free charging networks in England, like ChargePlace Scotland?
Very few. Northumberland Council use to have them but not anymore.
Are there any free charging networks in England, like ChargePlace Scotland?
All the Engie 50kw chargers in West Yorkshire (approx 80) were free for 2+ years (depending on when they were installed) up until 29 October 2021. I had 5 on my 15 mile commute, so never used my home charger.
Just to bring folk up to date.
Chargeplace Scotland is no longer fully free. Many sites are now charging, as the Northumberland example I think most sites were free for 2 years.
Still only 15p per kWh with 35p connection charge for all charger speeds so good value compared to dinosaur juice.
Have we done the upcoming Nio ET7 with a 150 kWh battery and a range of 621 miles for £50k yet?
@littledave true, but my local ones are still free - even the 45 and 50 kw ones.
Finally went ahead last week and ordered my Hyundai Ioniq 5. delivered next March.
Ive been in Barcelona this week with work. Walking around the city, theres were lots of street chargers. They all had bays marked as EV only. Every single one had a petrol car parked in the space.
I think Ionity are going to have to have a rethink as all the eTron, Taycan and Merc EQC drivers will switch to Tesla.
Will they, though? Ionity price for Tesla drivers is nudging 70p/kWh and I can’t see why Tesla would want to charge less, especially if it results in two or three chargers out of use.
Tesla are indeed charging less at their trial in the Netherlands. Euro 0.57 per kWh without a subscription vs Euro 0.78 for Ionity. With a Euro 13 monthly subscripion Tesla price drops to Euro 0.24 per kWh vs Euro 0.35 per kWh with a Euro 18 per month subscription for Ionity. Also the Ionity subscription locks you in for a year but the Tesla subscription is monthly so if you were planning a summer road trip in Europe you could take a Tesla subscription for just the month you needed it.
Given the above I don't see why Audi, VW, Mercedes and Porsche drivers wouldn't move from Ionity to Tesla once whatever Ionity membership they got with the car expires
Sorry if this has been done already, there's 45 pages to wade through!
We're considering an EV as a run-around. It'll be used for local trips where we don't need to fit the whole family (of 5) and the Mini seems quite appealing.
My big question: can it take a long bike in the back with the seats folded down and the wheels off? I'm hoping to convince the dealer to let me bring a test drive back to my house and try it out but it would be good to hear if anyone has experience.
If anyone's looking for used EVs, Nissan popped up on my FB feed. There are 246 used Leafs on their site, plenty of the new shape too for as low as £20k. Ok so not cheap but a significant discount from new and they aren't very old.
@appltn - Yes, with the wheels off and the seats down, a Mini will take a large 29er without any problem.
I’d personally buy roof bars, but understand that sometimes (like leaving at work all day) that you want it inside.
If anyone’s looking for used EVs, Nissan popped up on my FB feed. There are 246 used Leafs on their site, plenty of the new shape too for as low as £20k. Ok so not cheap but a significant discount from new and they aren’t very old.
About 4 weeks ago I got some quotes on a 62KWh N-Connecta from Carwow. The best quote was just sub 28K.
There seem to be 3 62KWh N-Connectas in that list - all 3 are more expensive than the best quote I got!
@appltn – Yes, with the wheels off and the seats down, a Mini will take a large 29er without any problem.
I’d personally buy roof bars, but understand that sometimes (like leaving at work all day) that you want it inside.
Excellent, thank you for the confirmation @Daffy. I have a 24 hour test drive on Monday so I'll double check though it sounds like there's no need.
I know you can't spec a tow bar on the electric mini but I wonder if some third party would be able to mount one just for a bike carrier? (I'm not keen on the roof bars because I think they look bad which I admit it the worst reason ever).
There seem to be 3 62KWh N-Connectas in that list – all 3 are more expensive than the best quote I got!
Not saying it's cheap, just that there are lots of used recent model cars coming on the market.
There seem to be 3 62KWh N-Connectas in that list – all 3 are more expensive than the best quote I got!
Having said near enough this exact same thing I had it pointed out that just because they are quoting you a price doesn't mean you will ever see a car at the end of it (assuming you are talking about buying new).
I paid just over £28k for a new e+ (62kWh) Tekna in metallic grey. Delivery end of Feb hopefully.
The secondhand market is bonkers in comparison, but there's a premium at the moment on a physical car you can get immediately.
appltn have you seen the range of the Mini? I would have loved one for a company car but the range was just impracticable for me. Some good youtube reviews of it, Some of the reviews I read/watched said great car but let down on the range.
appltn have you seen the range of the Mini? I would have loved one for a company car but the range was just impracticable for me. Some good youtube reviews of it, Some of the reviews I read/watched said great car but let down on the range.
Yes, I'd say that is the main thing in the negatives column at this point. It would be a second car along side a larger diesel family car which we'd use for local journeys unless all 5 of us are going.
I think that the chances of one of these journeys being 50+ miles each way with no way to charge at the other end is low but it definitely makes you consider that perhaps something with more range would be better.
Hi All, I have a question regarding EV company cars. If you have one, did your employer pay for the installation of a charging point at your house?
@mos I've just installed one (my own company) at my house for a company car that may eventually turn up (leased). I guess it depends on your employer as to whether they will do it, or whether they have chargers at their premises for you to use. According to this page on HMRC, there's no taxable benefit (BIK) if they pay to install one at your home, provided it is for a company car: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim23900
Someone at my work has a Jaguar F-Pace, which is only owned due to some convoluted family circumstances. Anyway, they went to look at a new MG5, and were told that they could trade in the Jag, drive away in the new MG5 and have some cash in the pocket, such is the crazinss of the second hand car market at present!
Oh, and the latest MG5's are apparently approved for a 75kg roof load now (on the previously cosmetic roofbars). I guess they were awaiting EU type approval, and probably launched in the UK as a test market. scroll to the bottom of this page: https://www.mg.co.uk/new-cars/mg5-ev
Hi All, I have a question regarding EV company cars. If you have one, did your employer pay for the installation of a charging point at your house?
I paid for mine. Podpoint did all of the OLEZ grant work for me. I just had to fill the forms in.
Thinking of buying a VW e-Up! as our 'local trips' car. We have a petrol Focus estate for trips away, and currently have a 2003 Smart for short trips, but its life is limited. If one of us was using the Focus, the e-Up! might need to carry a bike or kayak; that rules out the Zoe as the roof has a zero load rating. I appreciate a kayak would reduce the range, but it won't be going far.
Does anyone have an e-Up! (or the Seat/Skoda equivalent) or opinions on it?
I’ve just joined the e club, well sort of with an A3 tfsie. Can tootle to school on EV and do the longer trips as well. Said goodbye to my faithful and lovely RS4 for more than I paid for it !
If you have one, did your employer pay for the installation of a charging point at your house?
Mine does. Just about to press go on a Skoda Enyaq. Works out cheaper than my Kodiaq which is just coming to the end of its 4 years PCP, that’s before you take into account elec vs diesel. Was amazed at that really, always had it in mind that elec motoring was going to cost me more.
Cheers @stingmered, one of my employees is putting a case forward for swapping his diesel Tiguan for an EV and obviously he'll be needing a method of charging it.
I’ve just installed one (my own company) at my house for a company car that may eventually turn up (leased). I guess it depends on your employer as to whether they will do it, or whether they have chargers at their premises for you to use. According to this page on HMRC, there’s no taxable benefit (BIK) if they pay to install one at your home, provided it is for a company car
Who pays for the leccy when this happens ? If you charge it up every day then it’s going to push your bill up somewhat. Do these charge points keep a tally of what they have consumed ?
Unless you are doing mega sales/rep mileage, most company's seem to exclude fuel as a 'perk' (albeit a BiK) so shouldn't make any difference - you'd simply claim for the elec used for work trips in the normal manner - HMRC rate is currently 4p/mile. Still quids in: by an online calculator I was looking at it's less than a tenth of the price of an equivalent diesel (per mile.) Also if you're on a decent tariff for EVs it's about 1.2p/mile and wear and tear covered by the fact it's a company car. I also intend to charge it at work for free when I can (admittedly, only once every two weeks at the moment!)
Mos - it might be worth installing a few commando connections at work (much cheaper than individual charge points) if that's possible, and allowing employees to charge at work.
The 4500 miles I did last year added a whole £67 to my electricity bill for the year.
Any company mileage gets claimed at the 4 pence per mileage HMRC approved mileage rate for company cars.
Basically, the amounts are so small compared to the nearly £1000 an equivalent amount of petrol would have cost, I don’t care.
Depending on your commute you might get enough by using the standard 13A plug charger you get with the car. I think my car could add something like 12-15 miles per hour with a 13A charger so 80-100 miles ish in a work day.
So if you have (or could arrange) standard plugs at work that could be feasible.
Who pays for the leccy when this happens
Depends whether the company would normally pay for the company car fuel or not. If the employee normally pays for their personal fuel use, paying to charge from home would be no different to paying at the forecourt.
Do these charge points keep a tally of what they have consumed ?
Some of the newer smart chargers might. I had a small submeter fitted with mine when it was installed (pre smart chargers) just so I could keep a tally of house and car use. It cost £35 plus fitting.
Plug-in car grant cut to £1500 on cars under £32k list price, as of today. Some cuts to light commercial too, and bigger fleets can only claim up to 1000 grants a year.
Sad trombone if you were about to order a car that just scraped in for the old grant. Expect some rejigging of prices (for cars that normally get discounts) to get them in under this new one.
Plug-in car grant cut to £1500
That was close - ordered mine last week, paid for it yesterday, collecting it on Friday. Should get the old rate then.
We picked up our eNiro at the weekend. At showroom temps, indicated 450km on the range. Overnight in just negative and we had 350. Driving is smooth, cruise control is nice, but the adaptive part is a little aggressive on braking.
The charging point (11kw, 3fas) order went off today and we should have access to the charging points at work in the next couple of days, which will be nice.
At showroom temps, indicated 450km on the range. Overnight in just negative and we had 350
What's that in miles/kWh?
Driving is smooth, cruise control is nice, but the adaptive part is a little aggressive on braking.
If your Kia is like our Hyundai you can vary the distance it attempts to keep with the button on the dash, but also you can vary how agressive it is in one of the menus.
There are many, many menus. I need to go through a lot of it and work out what needs to be configured or tweaked. It has an app, the app works for some stuff, but the stereo is annoying as hell and the Nav is a bit cluttered.
The App says: 93km driven with an average consumption of 6.5km/kWh
That's about 4 miles/kWh, that's decent especially in the cold.
My MG got delayed until Mar/Apr at the earliest so I've cancelled that with a view to ordering one of the facelifted versions later in the year.
The Govt sneaked out a cut in the EV grant. It's now £1500 on cars up to £32k. Announced yesterday but not sure when it will apply from
New rate applies to orders placed from yesterday (15th) onwards. If you ordered on 14th or earlier then old rate applies.
Dealers register orders that get the grant on a website, they have 7 days grace to get any orders placed from the previous week on there. Worth checking your dealer has if you ordered very recently.
Customer (dealer really, as they're the ones that claim it) gets the rate at the time of order, not at delivery. You shouldn't ever be asked to pay more unless the dealer screwed up and is trying to pass on their mistake.
That’s about 4 miles/kWh, that’s decent especially in the cold.
That was a relatively fast major road trip too. We're going to be doing a bit more town driving today, but the weekend should have a bit more mixed driving in.
Righto - literally about to press go on an Enyaq IV ("we're" having a discussion about car colour tonight, then that's it!)) Anything I should I know from anybody who owns or has experience of one... TIA.
... not only has the car grant been reduced but the home charging point grant due to end in April
not only has the car grant been reduced but the home charging point grant due to end in April
Watch the price of charger installations magically drop by the same amount as the OZEV grant just like the price of EVs did when the EV grant was reduced. These subsidies just encourage vendors to increase their prices by the amount of any grant and trouser the grant. Much better to spend subsidies on making the charging infrastructure fit for purpose.
Or people will go back to buying diesels untill the price of EVs becomes competitive again. Almost no solar panels were sold when the feed in tarif was reduced and sales only picked up again a little when panel prices dropped significantly.
My guess is that prices will drop as soon as sales slow. If they're being sold as fast as they can be made at current prices, why would they drop? They'll use the cash to build new factories and that'll enable them to bring prices down when sales slow.
There's a load more competition coming into the market next year. For the example - new Megane getting excellent reviews. New e-Niro. The Renault 5 concept could be under £20k
Hopefully that will bring down prices, but my guess is not for a couple of years
I just read about the Lightyear cars that have solar panels and can put 12km of charge in per hour they are parked in the sunshine, presumably if you live somewhere really sunny. But even taking theoretical vs real solar panel efficiency that'd easily be enough for our commute, if it were to stay the same.
Imagine a fully solar powered car that you never needed to charge!
Or people will go back to buying diesels untill the price of EVs becomes competitive again.
In honesty the cut doesn't make much difference to me, I'd still have an MG 5 IF I had a method of charging at home.
But I take your point.
I just read about the Lightyear cars that have solar panels and can put 12km of charge in per hour they are parked in the sunshine, presumably if you live somewhere really sunny. But even taking theoretical vs real solar panel efficiency that’d easily be enough for our commute, if it were to stay the same.
That would be good but as you say, that's probably under ideal conditions.
Well in summer time under max conditions you'd be looking at 150km a day, even a third of that would be quite useful. Our commute is only 16km a day.
I'm pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry. The infrastructure isn't there. For many charging at home won't be an option, great charge when out but most car parks don't have much more than basic single phase power. Putting in supplies is expensive and there may not be local capacity to do so. The general consensus on the call was EV is a stop gap until hydrogen cell technology gets to commercial levels.
I'm pretty sure that lightyear is vaporware. They're claiming double the efficiency of the best on the market today. It has a slippery shape, and maybe a couple of other tricks, but remember the VW xl1 did all that in a tiny 2 seat chassis and still only managed around double the efficiency of a decent golf. The lightyear claims to seat 5.
If it was as simple as optimization to double the range, the big players would be doing it
I’m pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry. The infrastructure isn’t there. For many charging at home won’t be an option, great charge when out but most car parks don’t have much more than basic single phase power. Putting in supplies is expensive and there may not be local capacity to do so. The general consensus on the call was EV is a stop gap until hydrogen cell technology gets to commercial levels.
Was the call sponsored by Toyota?
🤣🙈
I’m pretty pro EV but had my confidence was seriously knocked a week ago on a call with someone in the power distribution industry.
Watch this. Graeme essentially runs the strategy for National Grid on EV infrastructure.
The infra from the distribution companies isn't there AT THE MOMENT. But, with a mix of new investment and more importantly efficient use of existing infra through intelligent management we have a pretty good idea of how to meet the demand.
Sounds more like your someone is anti-EV.
During Arwen while helping setup a welfare station Northern Power had a huge generator delivered. The delivery driver was chatting away to myself and the police, conversation switched to EV vehicles. Delivery driver declares jus how would EVs work in a power cut. He was somewhat staggered to hear the huge generator he had would probably charge mine for years.
The supply for car parks might not be there (now) but people won't be charging in car parks long term. If you live in a flat or terrace there'll be charging points on the street or in your home parking area.
Delivery driver declares jus how would EVs work in a power cut.
Same as petrol cars. Petrol stations don't work with the power off. Also, petrol stations don't get deliveries during fuel shortages, so best not drive a petrol or diesel either.
Yeah I asked him that too.
The supply for car parks might not be there (now) but people won’t be charging in car parks long term. If you live in a flat or terrace there’ll be charging points on the street or in your home parking area.
This. I’ll try and take some photos of round near me in Stockholm. Most of the on-street parking areas have blocks of four chargers for public use and more are being installed. Supermarkets are offering a limited number of EV spaces for people to get a charge while they shop and, while it is not super-fast, the hour you spend in the shop is normally enough to top you up a bit. We did that on Friday night and picked up about 50km.
Even drive throughs are getting chargers. Max (national burger chain) has a load, although these are mostly Tesla ones and mostly taken up by taxis.
Infrastructure will get better, but yes, it will require upgrading the current backbone in the U.K. and probably Sweden. Hydrogen… I keep thinking about it, but it means adding another method of distribution into the system. I though LPG would be awesome, but that is as bad as patrol for CO2 and only really used by people with the imported US cars here. We all have power lines, so EV charging _should_ work.
Maybe I should add the call was about setting up significant numbers of EV charging points with a company that's whole purpose is to supply access points into the grid. Everyone on the call had a vested interrest to make it work. As I said I'd assumed the nay sayers moaning about lack of infrastructure were just anti EV, turns out they may have a point. Yes infrastructure can be put in but it's costly, anyone see the government chipping in any time soon to give it all a massive boost, no me neither.
Will the government be chipping in to setup the costly hydrogen plants, stations and pumps?
I’m pretty sure that lightyear is vaporware.
This. If they really have a car that only needs 83Wh/km, they don't need solar panels to sell it.
12km/hr at that rate means 1kW solar panel - probably just feasible with 5m2 on a sunny UK summer day.
There’s a load more competition coming into the market next year. For the example – new Megane getting excellent reviews. New e-Niro. The Renault 5 concept could be under £20k
Hopefully that will bring down prices, but my guess is not for a couple of years
Legacy auto talk a good game about all the new EV models they are planning but they hardly ever mention production numbers. Currently EVs are production, not demand limited, which is why Tesla can sell 100,000 EVs to Hertz without giving them a discount, so I agree with you that prices will stay high for another year or two.
Yes infrastructure can be put in but it’s costly, anyone see the government chipping in any time soon to give it all a massive boost, no me neither.
£300m in May specifically for infrastructure upgrades to support rapid charging hubs.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-delivers-ps300-million-down-payment-rewire-britain
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs, just with a much less efficient way of getting electricity to their motors.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs, just with a much less efficient way of getting electricity to their motors.
Efficency isn't constrained to just a process.
Industrial and commercial vehicles are more efficient the longer you can run them in a day.
You'll need to elaborate on that Squirrelking. It's established that BEVs are more efficent in terms of getting grid electricity to the driving wheels with significantly less losses, are easy to package as the battery takes up less place than the equivalent hydrogen tank. The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
That and well over 90% of hydrogen currently being produced from fossil fuels, no distribution system beyond trucks on the road, losses in storage.
The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
Well not just that, I can see other benefits. There are places in the world that can generate limitless free energy but don't have good grid connections to the rest of the world (Iceland springs to mind) so you could generate lots of hydrogen and compress it, and the inefficiency would be less of an issue.
Also there is likely to be a need for certain vehicles to use hydrogen because charging just isn't available, such as Northern Canada or Siberia etc.
But overall yes I really don't think it's a good solution for everyone.
Iceland has 30% geothermal and 70% hydro electricity; if ever there was a place in the world BEVs will work it's Icelend. Production isn't limitless, it still has a cost, environmental in the case of hydro, and efficiency is always a good thing.
Given the number of trucks in Northern Canada I think the planet can cope with those running on fossil fuels which have an energy density far more attractive than hydrogen if you have to transport your fuel long distances.
Just as I predicted. As soon as the Plug-in Grant is reduced EV prices magically drop at the same time
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vauxhall-cuts-corsa-e-and-mokka-e-prices-%C2%A33000
It’s established that BEVs are more efficent in terms of getting grid electricity to the driving wheels with significantly less losses, are easy to package as the battery takes up less place than the equivalent hydrogen tank. The only plus to hydrogen is the fill time versus recharge time.
I imagine that fill time is probably where commercial operation of BEV falls over, currently.
Some while back there was a good video posted where JCB were showing hydrogen power plant as the most likely route. Although hydrogen has plenty problems of its own.
The latest premium EV’s are now charging fast enough that you’ll struggle to have a piss and a burger before it’s ready to do another 3 hour stint. Normal EV’s won’t be long in catching ‘em.
As soon as the Plug-in Grant is reduced EV prices magically drop at the same time
But the grant dropped by £1k and the prices have dropped by £3k.
I have a suspicion that the small EVs are sold not as profit making lines but to meet quota requirements for average CO2 emissions across the range. Hence the odd reason for discontinuing the Skoda Citigo - that it was too popular.
You’ll need to elaborate on that Squirrelking.
Mechanical vs economic efficiencies.
As you and mrmonkfinger alluded to, recharge time is BEV's downfall in a commercial/industrial environment. If you need machinery to operate as close to 24/7 as possible batteries aren't an option now or any time soon.
But the grant dropped by £1k and the prices have dropped by £3k.
The grant dropped by £1k but the maximum recommended retail price of vehicles eligible for the grant has been reduced from £35,000 to £32,000.
the maximum recommended retail price of vehicles eligible for the grant has been reduced from £35,000 to £32,000
Yes, I thought, from the link, that the previous price of the two models was under £32k - but on re-reading it, perhaps that was the post-grant price, I understand the £3k drop now. It supports my hypothesis that manufacturers have a quota of such cars they must sell, even if they make a loss.
The latest premium EV’s are now charging fast enough that you’ll struggle to have a piss and a burger before it’s ready to do another 3 hour stint.
I reckon that's still going to be problematic for a JCB digging a hole in the middle of nowhere.