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Nah, that 90 for 50% is pretty much bang on
Oh, that's not good. It's barely more than an ICE car doing 40mpg
My Leaf is a 2015 with 205000 kms on it as a reference. I have a 3 yr old EV6, don't see why it wouldn't last a good while yet.
I'm old enough to remember cars from back in the day, and a lot of them were very 'tired' after 3 years
Does anyone still buy cars outright these days or is it now a stupid idea?
Yes, I still do, but I can't answer the second part 😀
I sincerely hope that my EV3 will last 10 years but of course I have no idea if that is just wishful thinking and I share your concerns about the complexity of modern cars. I don't think the sensors etc are necessarily a problem as long as they can be replaced. The unknown for me is whether there are going to be independent garages around that can work on these in the future. But life's a gamble 😀
Six years in on the bought outright new Zoe. The first expensive service at 375e as it was battery coolant change. Back to a 150e sevice next year and after that I'll DIY brake fluid, pads and simple stuff and fix other stuff as necessary. Battery seems fine, wear and tar is what you'd expect on th e(low) mileage. I had thought I'd be changing it by now but it's fine. Another six months and it'll have been cheaper than leasing, and I've still got the car !
Does anyone still buy cars outright these days or is it now a stupid idea?
We bought ours. Time will tell, but there are Teslas out there with galactic mileages on their original batteries and motors.
Genuine question - how many people here with brand new EVs think they will last 10 years or more?
I think that the battery and motor side of things will be fine for 10+ years - on average less issues than an ICE car would give in that time. The bit I'd worry about is the complexity of the rest of the electronics, camera systems, cellular modems and all that "modern car" stuff - but that's just as applicable to a modern ICE car. The other thing I'd worry about is the sheer cost of some of the parts that are likely to fail or get broken - fancy LED headlights, radar systems integrated into bumpers etc. But again, they are not EV specific issues.
it....I'm sure I'm being over dramatic but how can you trust a car thats run by a third party operating system?
I think you'll find they all are.... Including your current cars (in the ECU)
I think that the battery and motor side of things will be fine for 10+ years -
Probably, certainly my Leaf hi-voltage system has been fine and its still on its original 12v......but it was the plethora of sensors and complicated software to operate them I was more worried about yes..
I think you'll find they all are.... Including your current cars (in the ECU)
Well that's partly true but not remotely the same. The firmware or software in the chipsets of my Toyota cannot receive over the air updates and each chip is discreet and does not affect other parts of the car. If the info screen breaks it doesn't affect anything to do with the drive train. To my knowledge it has never been updated or needed to be. Its highly unlikely to brick my car and no third party can withdraw support or they can but it wouldn't make any real difference as the car is its own entity connected to nothing.
My colleagues EV gets 'updated' constantly - whether he likes it or not.The last one affected the suspension...
Modern consumer electronics is actually pretty reliable and OTA updates mostly fix issues and add new features. After a while the manufacturer will stop pushing updates but it should all still work.
Repairing modern cars (EV or not) does seem to require different skills and manufacturers are trying hard to lock you into their dealers. I’m still fairly hopeful that independent garages will spring up with the kit and skills to repair modern cars but I’d probably go for something fairly popular to increase the chances of that.
My guess (and it’s just a guess) is that my EV will still function in ten years time. Maybe not as well as it does now as some of the connected stuff (app connectivity, map updates) may stop working. The bigger issue is whether I’ll still want it as the EVs being offered in even five years will probably be so much “better” than what I have now.
Stupidity or not I just followed my normal pattern of buying lightly used with a view to anything more than 10 years is a bonus.
I have 2 young children and bikes so the cars cosmetically get a tough time I'd hate to be worrying about lease handbacks and keeping it in good nick. Our current 11 year old partner tepee looks like it was dropped down the stairs . It was mint when we got it but it's lived a life over the last 100k.
Honestly, the electronics thing isn't just an EV issue. If you buy a new petrol car of similar level it will be the same. Likewise, cheap and cheerful EVs don't have OTA updates.
The only EV specific problems are likely to be with things like charging circuitry which seems to be an issue with Hyundais.
So I'm a bit less positive today on EVs my partner's 3 year old Citroen e3C died whilst driving it with the dreaded stellantis "traction error.". Luckily pulled it up on to a big pavement whilst coasting out of the way of busy road.
So this error has happend before and was supposedly fixed a year ago with software upgrades.
It's common across stellantis models.
So I've had:
Kia soul EV: two dead 12v batteries.
Citroen e3C: breakdown at home and breakdown whilst driving.
Vauxhall grandland: a recall and a broken camera.
Too be fair only the Citroen is having an EV specific problem but I'm a bit frustrated as it's a lease car and possibly out of warranty. (Because it was stood for several months before leasing unbeknown to me.)
My mate also had his Kia Niro die and wouldn't charge randomly.
So I'm starting to get a bad vibe (5 new ICE cars before zero issues.)
Also with the Citroen can't get it out of park with out lifting the bonnet and manually shifting a 7mm bolt to allow the handbrake to retract. And every time you press the foot brake it goes on.
Citroen dealers wouldn't take it from the AA last night as would have been after hours and they didn't have a key drop. Really rude lady.
So car was towed home.
The stellantis issues are widely known for now I wouldn't go near one as the fix isn't totally successful.
I was surprised to see Tesla at the bottom of the list for reliability this year, as my own Swasticar has been fine. It's very easy to raise service requests through the app for pretty trivial things and I have about 4 in succession for vibration/noise, which turned out to be one of the aerodynamic hub caps.
But if you go by "number of visits to garage" then it's horrendously unreliable by that metric, but does nothing like what rone describes above.
Genuine question - how many people here with brand new EVs think they will last 10 years or more?
Does anyone still buy cars outright these days or is it now a stupid idea?
I think they will, mechanically they're simpler than ICE cars and not hamstrung with a lot of emissions systems that can cause issues. Modern batteries seem to degrade to around 80% and stay there. I know early Nissan Leaf are all but useless now with sub 30 mile ranges, but the game has moved on. There are a few 11 or 12 year old Teslas for sale on Autotrader at moment.
I'm not sure it's a stupid idea to buy them outright... I wouldn't buy a new one that's for sure! Even pre-reg is usually a massive saving, but I'd buy a lightly used one at best. Everyone getting a new one is using it as a tax break in some way shape or form.
Also now - the parking brake is stuck on presenting a challenge for recovery so I think I've got go into the bonnet and release the brake manually.
How hard can it be?
So I'm starting to get a bad vibe (5 new ICE cars before zero issues.)
Ok but I've had three EVs and zero EV related issues. On the first Hyundai the brake controller failed but the same thing happened on my Passat a decade earlier so that doesn't worry me.
Remember that most EVs are on brand new platforms, and they're all being released about the same time, so this is going to make the stats look bad. In the past, new platforms and engines always had issues but their release was staggered across brands and within them so it didn't stand out. My Passat had two massive and highly publicised recall campaigns early in the life of that platform and engine, for oil pumps and injectors which could fail destructively when JDA.
You may not be able to release the parking brake manually, but the recovery driver should be able to whack some plastic pieces under the tyres and drag it up the ramp. That's what they did to my Passat. Oh yeah that also had loads of parking brake issues right across the range.
Ignore 🤦♂️
You may not be able to release the parking brake manually, but the recovery driver should be able to whack some plastic pieces under the tyres and drag it up the ramp. That's what they did to my Passat. Oh yeah that also had loads of parking brake issues right across the range.
It was also stuck in park - I've figured out how to release that now. (7mm socket winding clockwise for ages - though I still think the parking brake is also stuck on.)
I was an early adopter on these things so plenty of enthusiam but it's dropping away.
Wife’s Hyundai inster won’t charge. Been at dealer since Saturday and not due to be looked at until Thursday. 6 months old. Looks like it might have the known Hyundai ICCU fault. I hope not (thought they had resolved this) but looking on line a few other inster owners have started to mention it. For comparison my Cupra is 2 years old and no issues (other than one or 2 initial non EV niggles).
Bit of a query about tyres? I have a very slow pressure loss that turns out to be a screw with the head snapped off, tyre place says it is not repairable as they are a 'seal inside' tyre. Looking at new tyres VW dealer has said they would fit EV specific, why? Tyre place just said go for same or higher load rating but no real explanation.
The ID5 has staggered sizes and to replace the Pirellis on the rear is about £300 per tyre. Very few options for self sealing as there's no spare or inflation kit, 255/45 20 101T Pirelli elect is what is OE fitment on the car. Any ideas as I really don't want to spend £600 on tyres when the PCP ends in June?
I think you’ll have to suck it up but why do you need 2?
Might have an option for a different brand if I can’t find stock. Probably need 2 as I’m not sure if I can just get one matching and not sure if I want mismatched with one new and one part worn.
Well my 2014 Leaf went through yet another MOT today at 95k with an advisory on a tyre and knocking suspension which will need looking at over the next couple of months. So that's kicked the can down the road as I was convinced it would fail on a bunch of things. I did buy one new (to me) vehicle this week though - a 15 year old Triumph Bonneville. Its got that new fangled fuel injection rather than carbs but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have OTA updates for valve clearances....
RE the scre/slow puncture - i'd press for a proper fix/repair. Maybe try another garage.
Was listening to the drivetorque podcast, and it seems a decent repair is as good as a new tyre.
DrP
RE the scre/slow puncture - i'd press for a proper fix/repair. Maybe try another garage.
Was listening to the drivetorque podcast, and it seems a decent repair is as good as a new tyre.
Thanks, I've seen that it is possible to repair them as well. Just need to find a tyre place happy to do it as it seems to be a bit more work. Some things I have seen just say remove it and let the sealant do its job but as the head has snapped off there's nothing to really get hold of. Maybe if they can get it from the inside that would work.
Next joy is waiting for VW to do the software update and recall for the door handle issue. Dealer has said to wait as on a couple they have had in update hasn't gone well.
It’s time to choose a new EV but it’s given me a bit of a dilemma.
My immediate choice of another Genesis is too expensive to justify so I’ve narrowed the list down to 2 choices :
Choice 1 - Kia EV5 - great deal on the top spec with heat pump and all the toys. In all respects the bog standard easy to live with choice. Does everything reasonably well and no obvious flaws.
Choice 2 : Mercedes CLA Shooting Brake - not normally a fan of ze German cars but it’s attractive and by every metric is hands down the best EV currently available to order. 500 mile range, 329 kw charging. Every conceivable gadget. It should be an absolute no brainer based on the spec numbers. Only fly in the ointment is the compact size of the thing. I sat in the saloon version in a MB dealership and could barely get my inflexible and slightly portly carcass in and out of the doors. It’s just too low and tight.
Do I pick the absolutely easy to live with, practical, zero problems EV5 or the hard to live with Merc which is by far the better vehicle but will require extensive yoga tuition to be practical?
I’ve already kinda decided but interested to hear opinions.
Have a look at the Smart #5 as an option vs the EV5. I went and had a look at an EV5 the other day but was more impressed with the PV5 van thing for the price. Not as long range though.
Had a drive in PV5 passenger over Christmas and it was seriously impressive. The only design niggle is the lump of back seat in the middle when folded which doesn't tumble forward or remove. For such a well thought out interior I'm at a loss as to why they did this. Oh and wipe clean occupant floors but carpet in the load space....
The one other thing is price. Yes it is much less than a Buzz, but still £36-38k. Also not that many coming to the UK in next 6 months (had a look at the stock / build screen) so no discounts whatsoever.
Do I pick the absolutely easy to live with, practical, zero problems EV5 or the hard to live with Merc which is by far the better vehicle but will require extensive yoga tuition to be practical?
Lose some weight?
😬
Perchy, what options did you have on your Genesis? I'm definitely going used not lease but it's narrowing down to that or another Polestar really. Would you choose to buy a used one?
My Gv60 was the absolute basic povvy spec version and it was still magnificent.
I’d buy a second hand one in a minute if that was an option available to me. I’d go for the best specced RWD Premium that could find. The Sport has the nicest wheels but is probably overpowered and the Sport plus is ludicrously overpowered. I’d look for the innovation pack, the sunroof and the nappa leather as options ideally.
the best EV currently available to order. 500 mile range, 329 kw charging
There is a few next gen EV's coming along at the moment. The Merc, the BMW IX3 and the Volvo EX60.
Nearly all the I4 drivers due to change in summer at my company have ordered IX3's. They look 'orrible but an extra 50% range is irresistible
If the EX60 is on our scheme when my car comes up for replacement, i'll be swapping my V60 PHEV for one of the twin motor versions. Unless its A) a silly price or B) a ridiculous lead time.
I suspect it'll be both.
Cheers Perchy, I want the B&O system, but not sure on other bits.
Nearly all the I4 drivers due to change in summer at my company have ordered IX3's. They look 'orrible but an extra 50% range is irresistible
That's exactly what I wanted to do, it just wasn't available to order in time - was willing to put up with the looks as BMW do seem to be able to make great cars and EVs. The additional range is realistically overkill though. The "300 ish" mile range of the i4 is enough that I only charge in public 3-4 times a year and even then it's for a quick 5-10 minute top up.
Mercedes CLA Shooting Brake
I was taken aback to hear that due to the 800V architecture they're not compatible with 400V chargers, which rather limits the options for finding a fast charger. So if looking at a CLA make sure that it's got the (optional?) converter specified if this would be a limitation.
I had to relinquish my 2 yr old salary sacrifice i4 last summer due to a work change and I bought an EV3 GT line, it was preregistered and I paid for it all in full with my work departure settlement.
From the point of view of tech and comfort the Kia is better. Range wise it’s about the same. I do miss the mental acceleration and the BMW smugness a little, sometimes. Then I remember I don’t have to take off the front wheel to get a bike in the back and I can lug a load of stuff to the dump etc much more easily.
My 4 yr old ioniq 5 work lease is up in the spring so just musing about options. Not looked at lease prices yet but those new BMW and Volvo options are all £55k plus 😮
I’d go for another Ioniq 5 or look at the genesis or Kia equalivent as that platform is great but would rather try something a bit less related.
I really fancy (looks, range and fast charging) the Zeekr 7GT. Slick estate from the polestar Volvo parent at ~£45k. Yet to announce uk launch day yet though so may need interim solution.
I was taken aback to hear that due to the 800V architecture they're not compatible with 400V chargers
I think they have rolled back on that no? EDIT the 400V capability is available in the UK as an optional extra:
Mercedes fixes CLA’s rapid charging problem – but at a price
That's like lesson 101 in driving product uptake. Compatibility with existing architecture...I was taken aback to hear that due to the 800V architecture they're not compatible with 400V chargers
I think they have rolled back on that no? EDIT the 400V capability is available in the UK as an optional extra:
Mercedes fixes CLA’s rapid charging problem – but at a price
The idiocy of that original decision and the subsequent moronic decision to charge £££s on a car that already costs 50k just to be compatible with 75% of the UK charging infrastructure would be enough for me to walk out of a merc garage laughing.
EV5 now ordered.
Common sense prevails over making unnecessary compromises and spending a large chunk of additional cash in the pursuit of additional range and charging speed that I don’t even need.
The EV5 is exceptional at nothing at all but, crucially, is really quite good at everything. There are no compromises at all that I can see.
So my lease Citroen E-c4 is turning into a nightmare.
Stopped dead on road. Recovery to home as garage wouldn't take it late.
Lots of fiddling to get it in neutral (cos it's all electric dummy) - 7mm socket and about 100 turns to wind it back manually.
£80 recovery to garage. Booked in. After week - still nothing on diagnostics. 3 months out of warranty on a lease that was pre-registration before I got it by 3 months.
Cruel fate.
(Also a 4 year lease was not a good idea but just post-pandemic virtually no choice.)
Lesson to oneself no more Citroen or possibly even stellantis cars as there are many reports of OBC and traction battery faults that take months to fix and source parts for.
*Gets in stellantis vauxhall grandland and hopes it doesn't die.
Sent a begging letter to Citroen customer service about warranty - as some of the parts are thousands.
Will see. Not been in this situation. Will probably pay lease off early and get out the minute it gets sorted.
The idiocy of that original decision and the subsequent moronic decision to charge £££s on a car that already costs 50k just to be compatible with 75% of the UK charging infrastructure would be enough for me to walk out of a merc garage laughing.
It should be free, for sure, but it wouldn't put me off. It's an £850 optional extra, but the car is still a compelling option even at that higher price. It's still one of the longest range cars you can get, it's a luxury marque, and it still seems decently priced to me. It would be annoying to have to find one used with it though.
A very compelling option but just not enough.
It is a bit try-hard with the Mercedes branding though. There are illuminated three pointed stars on everything.
Plus the bucket seats are slightly too narrow for my chonky ass and the centre console was constantly banging off my knee.