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Our car has a heat pump, on short journeys (as above) the impact of the heating can be huge. In cold weather (<0C) the heat pump only seems able to get the cabin up to 16C. To heat above 16C you need to set the air circulation to recycle internal air rather than pull air from the outside. Depending on the weather and number of people in the car this doesn't work very well as the windows can quickly steam up.
I wonder if you have a fault with the car? I leave mine set to 20 degrees and auto, it's always fine and the windows don't steam up even in heavy rain. There's an auto defog setting somewhere in the menus.
I wonder if you have a fault with the car? I leave mine set to 20 degrees and auto, it's always fine and the windows don't steam up even in heavy rain. There's an auto defog setting somewhere in the menus.
Driving around in Eco mode ? that restricts the heat in most marques.
We are on a long term average of 4 miles/kWh, I would estimate that 75%+ of our driving is <= 20mph average.
Less than 20mph is going to reduce the range a lot, see my earlier post. The motor has an efficiency band, so it's less efficient below about 20, but the real issue is the ratio of driving power to heating and general electrical consumption. On the motorway on a long trip you're using 10-15kW to drive and maybe 500W to heat, once warmed up; but on a short slow trip it's using 2.5kW to warm the car and 5kW to drive so it thinks a third of the power is going to the heating. And the heating is using far more energy *per mile* as you are doing fewer miles.
We have an Ioniq of similar age so it'll have all the same bits in it, including heat pump. We always get as much warm air as we need even when below freezing, it heats up in about 30 seconds, and I just leave it on auto. I also drive at the speed limit including 70mph on motorways. Our long term average (2 years' worth) is 4.9 but the car is more aerodynamic.
When we had the Leaf we were getting 4-4.5 driving around the countryside, but on a local winter run I reset the stats, put the heating up to 22C and headed into a traffic jam and it went down to under 3
I had my first EV drive in really bad winter conditions on Saturday and I was unbelievably impressed.
The mrs had a medical appointment on Saturday morning. It had drizzled heavily the night before then froze hard and we woke up to basically every non main road being absolute sheet ice.
I drove her in my Skoda Elroq with normal tyres on it. Absolutely zero traction issues anywhere despite the roads being lethal. I can only assume the additional weight of the car coupled with the lack of hassle of trying to balance revs with the clutch, not to mention the regenerative braking making downhill sections a doddle.
Driving around in Eco mode ? that restricts the heat in most marques.
Mine's in Eco mode permanently, so I don't think it can be that. Easy to check though!
Our car has a heat pump, on short journeys (as above) the impact of the heating can be huge. In cold weather (<0C) the heat pump only seems able to get the cabin up to 16C. To heat above 16C you need to set the air circulation to recycle internal air rather than pull air from the outside. Depending on the weather and number of people in the car this doesn't work very well as the windows can quickly steam up.
I wonder if you have a fault with the car? I leave mine set to 20 degrees and auto, it's always fine and the windows don't steam up even in heavy rain. There's an auto defog setting somewhere in the menus.
We leave ours on auto also, though I have disabled the auto air-circulating setting as I find it too aggressive. The windows only steam up if the climate settings are set to re-circulate air, if set to ingest air from outside they do not steam up at all.
I tested this with a ODB reader week before last early in the morning when it was -3 outside. With air coming in from outside the ODB showed 16C after an hour in Utility Mode. After switching to internal air-circulation the ODB sensor reading rose to 20C in a few minutes (20C auto set).
We've had the Compressor and Air-con controller replaced within the last 18 months. There's also been a regas 2 months ago. That's not to say there isn't a further fault...
It's definitely not right.
Sounds odd for sure. I have an EV3, which presumably shares much of the kit and the heating is splendid. The auto mode isn’t great for keeping windows clear if it’s raining and or wet jackets, so I often use it on manual ac and set at 21deg with fan on setting 2 of 6, and all stays fog free.
Answering and quoting my own post now.
Until the next, due shortly at 40k that includes a battery coolant change as well and is £500+. A bit confused on this, some Kona's had a recall for this and so should be done under warranty so not sure if mine's been done or if not if I get that bill.
So - I found the recall notice at
(US site, but relevant to all Kona EV 19-22MY
and on checking with Hyundai garage near me while booking it in for this 40k service they confirmed that it was done at last service (Mar 25, 3 year service)
HOWEVER - they then said that as the service interval 'requires' that coolant is flushed and changed at 4 yr / 40K that it will be done again in line with service requirements. Which is palpably bollocks, expensive, and wasteful of harmful chemicals (TSB helpfully notes may cause reproductive harm)
So I now have an open query in with Hyundai UK to advise why it has to be done again / confirm it doesn't, which I will hopefully share in here in due course.
My my20 ioniq had the battery coolant replaced under the recall at 3yrs old. When the 4th year service turned up I pointed out that the battery stuff had been done by the same Hyundai garage 12 months ago, so they said that they would just complete the rest of the service in line with the 4yr checks and deduct the battery coolant part of the service off the bill. I think they did a 50000 mile service instead?
Something like that anyway. It cost me around £70/£80 and took 2hrs including washing the car.
I need to book in this year's service.
interesting, would you mind saying what garage was that? Ioniq was part of the same recall.
Hi, I am about to buy a used Enyaq and have a question (which may be me overthinking things) that someone on here might be able to help with. Sorry if this has been covered before and I've missed it.
We did a test drive in the recent cold weather and the range on the car was estimating about 210 miles. For a big battery Enyaq this is estimated at over 300 miles. I appreciate the impact of the cold and other factors.
We have got the battery check numbers. This gives a 99% capacity for the battery, which is great and makes sense for a car just over a year old.
It also gives a total energy charge figure which has worried me a bit. I understand this to be the total amount of energy that has been put into the car over its lifetime. When I take the total milage and divide it by the total energy charge figure, I get an efficiency of 2 miles/kWh. This is much lower than the typical 3.5-4 miles/kWh which I've looked out for the Enyaq and would suggest a typical full battery range of 150 miles.
I can't work out if this indicates a problem with the car, or if it has simply been driven really inefficiently, or if there is another explanation of why the total energy charge figure shouldn't be used in the way I have done.
Any helpful thoughts welcomed. Cheers
interesting, would you mind saying what garage was that?
West Riding Hyundai, Bury. It might have under another franchise at the time, but the signage changed to West Riding which linked it to another dealership in Manchester and probably a few others in the north west?
For the few times I've visited them they have been helpful.
HOWEVER - they then said that as the service interval 'requires' that coolant is flushed and changed at 4 yr / 40K that it will be done again in line with service requirements. Which is palpably bollocks, expensive, and wasteful of harmful chemicals (TSB helpfully notes may cause reproductive harm)
The consensus on the Ioniq forums is that if the coolant flush gets done as part of the recall they will defer the flush until four years after that. It is a bit of a pain because the recall isn't on the same system as the service plan so you don't know when it's been done until it's on the ramp and plugged in, and you then have to remember it yourself as the service system will tell you to do it on the original cycle. But Wessex Hyundai of Cardiff were happy to work like this and even the receptionists knew what I was talking about so I clearly wasn't the first customer to bring it up.
@mikeys scroll back a few posts. Short urban trips in cold weather reduce the average significantly, but it sorts itself out on long trips. As for the total energy input vs miles, I can't say for Skoda but the numbers reported in the Hyundai app make no sense at all no matter how I try to interpret them, so I give up. The number that matters is miles per kwh on a long trip only.
@molgrips, thanks. I had a look at some other battery checks on the internet and all seemed to be showing relatively low efficiency based on the total energy charge figure. So I don't think the calculation I was doing is appropriate for what I was using it for. I think the main thing is the battery is still at 99% capacity and I'm overthinking it. Cheers
@mikeys I have an 2023 ID5 with the same/similar battery 77kwh usable, and driving to Plymouth in the cold and rain down the motorway last Thursday it kept saying wasn't going to make it on a full charge and that's 195 miles. I did end up stopping for a fast charge but in the summer it did it no problem at all. I think the newer Enyaq 85 (not 80) is supposed to be more efficient so depends which one you're looking at.
So I now have an open query in with Hyundai UK to advise why it has to be done again / confirm it doesn't, which I will hopefully share in here in due course.
I now have an email from them confirming:
Hello again Jon,
I've just heard back from our technical team and they've confirmed that you don't need to have it done at the 4th year, but you will need to have it done 4 years after the date the recall TSB campaign was done.
I hope this info helps,
Kind regards,
(name removed)
Best regards
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Got an Enyaq 60 and I can confirm in the cold weather the range falls off a cliff. I'm about 180 miles (only just) with the weather sitting a 0c, in summer when it was about 20c, I'd get almost 250 miles...in spring and autumn is is about 225 miles.
Have a look at the EV Database website for actual ranges in different weathers, very useful resource.
From what you describe , the drop in range sounds similar to my enyaq, 80 2021 model. The range will come back when it warms up.
The additional kw used is less clear but most likely used by the car for heating / cooling/ preconditioning the battery etc.
hope this helps
@chowsh thanks for the info. Yes it is the new Enyaq 85 that we're getting, but it's the 4 wheel drive version which is meant to be a bit less economical. We'll see how it goes, but I'm hoping it will get me up and back to Kendal which is about 200 miles for me even in bad weather. I just got insurance which covers towing if I run out of charge!
It was worst possible conditions, normally fine for most of my trips. I'm looking at an 85x as my ID5 PCP finishes soon and it's worth a fair bit less that the guaranteed value so it's going back to VW. A 10-15 minute fast charge sould get you 200 miles with a good buffer if you ever needed it even in bad weather.
Think we are going to be replacing our 19 plate Zoe this year. The obvious choice is a R5 but what else would you consider. Don't need any thing big as the ID7 covers that and absolutely no SUVs or crossovers. Not interested in any of the Chinese brands. Probably <1 year old, doubt we would buy new unless there was an absolute killer deal. I'd like something that has a Thule foot pack available so it could be fitted with the bike racks. The Zoe is a ze40 with around 115kw, I'd not want less power to weight than that. Rapid charge capability but doesn't need to be super fast (just faster than the Zoe's AC charging). Remote preconditioning essential.
We will be looking at a small EV to replace wife’s A1 later in the year. Top contenders currently Renault 5 and Kia EV2. We already have an EV3.
Hadn't seen the ev2 but fails the suv test, it's a bit bigger footprint and height than I'd like.
@chowsh thanks for the info. Yes it is the new Enyaq 85 that we're getting, but it's the 4 wheel drive version which is meant to be a bit less economical. We'll see how it goes, but I'm hoping it will get me up and back to Kendal which is about 200 miles for me even in bad weather. I just got insurance which covers towing if I run out of charge!
Had my 85x for a few weeks now. I love it, great car, a few things...
First full charge (100%) at the weekend, just to see what it would do really. I'm currently at 50% and I've done 90 miles. In fairness I've been hooning it a bit and the rest of the time it's been doing a lot of slow speed commuting, but 180 miles is far less than even the 'real world' figures I've read. I'm averaging 3.1 miles per Kw which should mean around a 240 mile range, but even if I took it to 0% (or close to) I don't think it would. I also keep the Climate at 20c, I preheat it every day and I run the seat and steering wheel at max.
Despite what I thought about EVs, it generally does better on a constant high speed cruise than around town, I've seen 3.4 on a long run, which is a 270ish mile range.
Charging, fastest I've seen is 178kw which is very close to the stated maximum via a 400Kw Ionity charger, 40Kw on the same charger when it was especially cold (3c). It's currently costing me around £30 to fully charge it (10% to 100%) thanks to an Ionity sub. I'll have a home charger soon and I'll almost never charge away from home then.
Despite all the worries about range, the real world effect on me is negligible. There's an excellent Charger very close to places I need to be for an hour or more and I think I'll need to charge twice a week, once for the weekday work stuff, and another at the weekend. Not full charges either. I rarely take long trips in the Winter, I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do in Spring and beyond.
I don't have much range anxiety. Went to Newcastle yesterday, 350 miles round trip for me. Fully charged showing 325 miles range when I left home. Quick tickle at Tesla Washington on the way out of Newcastle, added about 100 miles or so, and home with 25% left. Averaging about 3.7 overall, mostly motorways at 60-70mph.
When it was very cold recently, full range was showing at about 250 miles.
On the charging speeds, mine starts off well at over 100kW, then usually drops to around 70 ish. Even at the initial ramp up, far from the 150kW max.
I'm averaging 3.1 miles per Kw which should mean around a 240 mile range, but even if I took it to 0% (or close to) I don't think it would
All the range predictions are based on fairly long term averages so you won't get any sense out of those numbers for a while. 3.1 m/kWh isn't great, but if you do short trips in slow traffic when the weather's cold you will hammer that number. You will only get a good number when you do a long trip and work back from the efficiency number. I'd expect 3.5 or so from a car like that if you have an open motorway run at 70.
How many of you would buy a Niro EV without heated seats?
There's £1500-3k between a 2 and 3 model.
I'd not buy any car now without heated seats. Use them all the time, even in summer!
How many of you would buy a Niro EV without heated seats?
There's £1500-3k between a 2 and 3 model.
if you asked me before I got my EV I would of said I couldn’t care about heated seats, had them in my cars and never really used them. However, since getting my EV (Cupra born) I use the heated seats a fair bit because the car heating is pretty poor and drains the battery more than heating the seats does. Not sure how good the Niros heating is but £1500 is a lot.
My leased EV was delivered on Monday, a brand spanking new MG4 SE (Nav). The first couple of days were great but today I drove from work to the supermarket. When I returned to the car the speed limit recognition, centre screen and Auto Hold function had stopped working. I've followed all the suggestions on the internet to no avail so I now have to book my car into my local MG dealer, who didn't supply the car, to get it sorted. 😪
How many of you would buy a Niro EV without heated seats?
There's £1500-3k between a 2 and 3 model.
I could live without heated seats if they're cloth. The leather seats in my Niro are cold in the winter.
I now have to book my car into my local MG dealer, who didn't supply the car, to get it sorted.
They'll be well used to this (not because it's an EV/MG but because leasing is where the market is going).
If it's any comfort years ago I had a company contract hire Golf. It spent at least 2 weeks of it's first 6 months having various warranty bits done in the local dealer. Needless to say it had not come from that dealer!
This included an ECU and something that involved most of the dashboard coming out iirc. Not an eyelid batted and that was 20 years ago.
How many of you would buy a Niro EV without heated seats?
There's £1500-3k between a 2 and 3 model.
I could live without heated seats if they're cloth. The leather seats in my Niro are cold in the winter.
They are cloth seats.
One of the joys of having an EV is using the App to pop on the climate, including heated seats and steering wheel 5-10 mins before getting into it on colder days. I wouldn’t get an EV without them now.
i can even do it on my Apple Watch, a swipe and a click, less than 2 seconds.
No heated seats in my MG, but it's cloth seats so in conjunction with the pre-heat function I doubt I'll miss them.
As an update to my issues, MG Assist have tried all the remote options to fix the issues so it will have to go back to a dealer. However, it's so new it's not showing on the lease company's system yet so they can't book it in... 🙄
MG Assist did suggest disconnecting the 12v battery for 15 minutes but whilst I'm competent to do that I'm not sure I should at this point.
I have a VW Buzz and many of the gremlins that I and other owner have experienced arise from issues in the 12v system. I would give the battery disconnection a try as its often enough to cure the problem and its a hell of a lot more convenient than losing your vehicle for days to a dealership, who may just end up doing the same thing.
Really don't get on with heated seats, can't get past the feeling of having wet myself.
I don't think I've missed them and if it is cold, I tend to be dressed for the weather anyway so don't tend to notice a cold interior of a car.
My temperature is set to 16c and if I do feel cold it gets bumped up to 17c...if it really is proper cold outside then that temperature is warm and if it is warmer outside then I'm not wanting any more heat anyway.
Aware a heated seat means there is less the warm up to be comfy and that should use less power, but so far I've yet to think the feeling of wondering if I've wet myself outweighs the <60 seconds of thinking it is cold. I'm just not sure I'd ever use them so would be a waste of money getting them fitted (heated seats).
Deal breaker for me, cooled seats I can live without, they feel weird. Heated steering wheel also a revelation.
Looks like the 3 has a few other nicer features over the 2, bigger wheels, bigger touch screen better lumbar support in the seats amongst others.
Had my 85x for a few weeks now. I love it, great car, a few things...
First full charge (100%) at the weekend, just to see what it would do really. I'm currently at 50% and I've done 90 miles.
Wowsers. I've had my 2wd Elroq 85 since mid December and even with the very low temps we've been having, I'm getting considerably more than 180 miles to a full charge. Around 280 miles from a full charge. And I've been enjoying thrashing it a fair bit. Surely the 4WD can't be that much of an impact? 90 miles for 50% battery feels like something is very wrong. Are you driving in regen mode? I always have it in regen
Had my 85x for a few weeks now. I love it, great car, a few things...
First full charge (100%) at the weekend, just to see what it would do really. I'm currently at 50% and I've done 90 miles.
Wowsers. I've had my 2wd Elroq 85 since mid December and even with the very low temps we've been having, I'm getting considerably more than 180 miles to a full charge. Around 280 miles from a full charge. And I've been enjoying thrashing it a fair bit. Surely the 4WD can't be that much of an impact? 90 miles for 50% battery feels like something is very wrong. Are you driving in regen mode? I always have it in regen
Nah, that 90 for 50% is pretty much bang on.
We had an 85x and it returned pretty much the same, sometimes lower.
Genuine question - how many people here with brand new EVs think they will last 10 years or more?
I'm shopping for two new/nearly new cars right now to replace my aging Leaf and Auris Hybrid estate. Both have 100k (in fact the Auris is closing on 150K) and are 12 years old. I bought both about 18 months old and they have been pretty much fault free in all the time I've had them.
I've test driven a bunch of hybrids and EVs over the last couple of months with the aim of getting a similar set up - one hybrid and one EV but I just can't bring myself to push the button on two cars costing 25k each (looking at around a year old for both) as they all feel so incredibly fragile and complicated. Almost everything I own based around modern tech has let me down in the last few years - mainly due to software not being updated, the only exception being apple where (and I'm really no fanboi) they just seem to keep working. I just can't see how these giant screens, massively over complicated hybrid systems and hundreds of tiny sensors are going to last 10 years and 100,000 miles.
Renault make lovely looking cars which are well priced and drive beautifully - but both the Megane and the Austral I drove are powered by Google - its embedded in the car and the car won't operate without it....I'm sure I'm being over dramatic but how can you trust a car thats run by a third party operating system? Especially a US based one!
I guess the only option is the lease route which i've been avoiding.....
Does anyone still buy cars outright these days or is it now a stupid idea?
My i3 Rex did 8.5 years and 88k miles. It sold on for 8.5k and according to the MOT history, it's now 10.5y old at 96k with no advisories.
The 12v disconnect fixed all my issues, but not before throwing up every error message known to man...
A short drive sorted it though.