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@johndoh if you are worried about running out of charge why don't you stop and charge for 10 minutes instead of trying to limp back home?
because both times it was very late/early morning - we prioritised getting home to bed.
Ioniq 5 is 4 yrs old in April and going back so starting to think about what next.
absolutely love the car. Exterior design. Interior design and space. Performance (awd 320bhp version). Handling is v good with caveats below. Speed of charging (800v system) in summer.
negatives are: range hit at mway speeds. Slow winter charging (wont make the mistake of not having preconditioning on next car). Intrusive traction control especially noticeable on rough county roads. I turn it off sometimes. Soft ride is lovely 80% of time but switchable dampers would be great when in the mood.
Not having a Tesla. Musk paying Tommy Robinson legal bills is the last straw. Looking around and there aren’t that many options that give such fast charging and don’t look like a Tesla clone or large suv. New BMWs but v expensive I am slightly tempted by an ioniq 6 but the looks are a bit of a challenge. Anything else?
Ioniq 5 is 4 yrs old in April and going back so starting to think about what next.
absolutely love the car. Exterior design. Interior design and space. Performance (awd 320bhp version). Handling is v good with caveats below. Speed of charging (800v system) in summer.negatives are: range hit at mway speeds. Slow winter charging (wont make the mistake of not having preconditioning on next car). Intrusive traction control especially noticeable on rough county roads. I turn it off sometimes. Soft ride is lovely 80% of time but switchable dampers would be great when in the mood.
Not having a Tesla. Musk paying Tommy Robinson legal bills is the last straw. Looking around and there aren’t that many options that give such fast charging and don’t look like a Tesla clone or large suv. New BMWs but v expensive I am slightly tempted by an ioniq 6 but the looks are a bit of a challenge. Anything else?
Kia ev6?
Yes I know same under the skin but thinking a bit smaller and classier. Might have a look at polestars
Not having a Tesla. Musk paying Tommy Robinson legal bills is the last straw. Looking around and there aren’t that many options that give such fast charging and don’t look like a Tesla clone or large suv. New BMWs but v expensive I am slightly tempted by an ioniq 6 but the looks are a bit of a challenge. Anything else?
I thought similar earlier in the year. Spent time looking at other options: BMW; MB; Hyundai; Kia; Polestar; Volvo.
VAG was out because of their history - thinking more dieselgate than their Brazilian slave factories or earlier.
BMW was not favored because their CEO is a fervent pro-global warming campaigner with his desire to maintain ‘choice’ for consumers by making ICE cars forever.
I favor an SUV/CUV style for practicality these days. I recognize that’s not what you are after.
Polestar [4] was the only option that seemed close on tech, drive, albeit different on price for the bells and whistles. A bit better on build. Different on style. I’ll not list why the others didn’t work for me as I don’t want to yuk on others’ yum. I just hate complicated cabins.
We recently tested the new Model Y. In the end my SO determined they favored the Model Y over any of the others based on familiar but better and simplicity and ‘it just works…well’. I’m still wondering about the Polestar 4 but they had a point, it is not in the same ‘get in and go’ class.
Musk’s current actions are more loathsome than some of his past ones like banning unions, abusing workers, etc. But, despite the CEO worship cult of the modern era he isn’t all of Tesla. Entirely understandable though that folks want to maintain as much distance from him and his actions as possible.
edit. Good luck choosing. It’ll be interesting to hear what you decide.
VAG was out because of their history
Seems pretty weak considering they now are aajor player in the EV world.
But I bet you could find something disagreeable about every company if you looked hard enough!
What used EV for ~£25k?
Totally get the GV60. Best car I ever had even though it lacked heated seats.
I’ll be getting another one this time next year
Finally snagged one! 22 plate Premium with Comfort Pack, Innovation Pack, B&O Sound system and V2L. Put a cheeky offer in but was turned down then it disappeared off Autotrader. Came back up 2 weeks later (finance fell through) at £700 less so got it at the price I wanted.
Result. That’s exactly the spec I’d choose. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did / intend to again.
If anyone is looking for a used ev then I'd recommend an ex demonstrator car.
Just picked up a cupra born v3 less than 12 months old and 1200 miles for £25k.
Purchased from Cupra Oldham. They seem to get most of the demonstrator cars and currently have a Cupra Born v1 2025 for £25K
V2L
What's that - vehicle to [Lama!] ??
edit: ahhh "load". Not 'home" then I guess?
How big can the load be?
But I bet you could find something disagreeable about every company if you looked hard enough!
Indeed, including Chinese-owned brands like Polestar.
Up to 3.6 kW I think
Yeh V2L is not as game-changing as I thought it would be on the Ioniq 5 - used it about 6 times in 3.5 years. Useful on those occasions but I'd rather have memory seats and adaptive dampers as an option on another I5......the two things I'd use multiple times a week.
Not as convinced by the looks of the Kia EV6 and with both juniors now driving and us doing less camping trips room not so much of a need. VAG I've always steered away from as they had such an awful reputation for their infotainment software - is that sorted on the latest as those Cupra's look quite nice. Polestars are v expensive so maybe not! Could always opt out of company car and go for a leggy second-hand Taycan Turismo 🤣
More realistically the MG IM5 (Chinese I know) ticks a lot of boxes for performance, range and charging speed. Just a shame that they've made it look like a knock of tesla rather than build on the quite stylish MG roadster.
Yeh V2L is not as game-changing
We get a lot of power cuts. I'm toying with getting a manual transfer switch wired into the house so I can plug the EV in. I'd have to also go to the consumer unit and knock down a lot of the high current circuits to avoid accidental overload. But it would keep the lights on and the boiler's pumps running and the fridge on which would be a real bonus. Obviously, a little petrol generator could also to the same job too, but it would be a good feature.
After the recent storms the V2L and an extension lead running into the house kept my wife able to work from home rather than use annual leave up for the 2 days it took to get the power back on so for my admittedly niche use, it has been a useful extra.
Yeh V2L is not as game-changing
We get a lot of power cuts. I'm toying with getting a manual transfer switch wired into the house so I can plug the EV in. I'd have to also go to the consumer unit and knock down a lot of the high current circuits to avoid accidental overload. But it would keep the lights on and the boiler's pumps running and the fridge on which would be a real bonus. Obviously, a little petrol generator could also to the same job too, but it would be a good feature.
After the recent storms the V2L and an extension lead running into the house kept my wife able to work from home rather than use annual leave up for the 2 days it took to get the power back on so for my admittedly niche use, it has been a useful extra.
We're also rural and storm Arwen knocked our power out for 3 days so V2L will hopefully keep the CH running if we have another outage.
VAG I've always steered away from as they had such an awful reputation for their infotainment software - is that sorted on the latest as those Cupra's look quite nice.
The infotainment system could be better. I prefer physical buttons and dials for heating, but once I got used to it it's not bad as I thought.
I just use Android auto and it works great. The heated seats and steering were a nice surprise but I think they are standard on the v2 not the v1.
We're also rural and storm Arwen knocked our power out for 3 days so V2L will hopefully keep the CH running if we have another outage.
I'm sure an electrician will be along in a minute to explain why this is a terrible idea that will almost certainly end in disaster; but we've been using a small petrol generator to cope with occasional power outages over the past 30 years. All I do is flick the main circuit breaker to isolate the house from the mains and then plug the generator into any plug socket. Bingo, we have lights for the whole house, the heating works and the fridge/freezer keep going. Obviously you can't run anything that draws significant power. So the cooker, kettle and any portable heaters are out of action, for example. But (with the wood burner and some camping stoves) we kept the house running for days after Arwen.
I guess an EV (with V2L) would work in the same way and would save that ten minutes of trying to get the blaster generator to fire up again after months of not being used, but with the downside that you'd probably need to drive to a charger and recharge the car after a while.
We're on our 2nd ID3 - the infotainment system is much improved in the new version. Quicker and more logical menus and hasn't crashed/failed at all. I still miss physical buttons but I'm used to it now.
Yeh V2L is not as game-changing as I thought it would be
I use it regularly. It’s easier when hoovering the car out to plug it into the car rather than running an extension cable out of the house
it's an SUV but this ticks a lot of boxes if the leases are affordable:
Vainly hoping for more people to slag off the 5, as my Polestar goes back in 10 months and not convinced the salary sacrifice will be worth it to lease again. I'll want to buy a used 5 for £15k, which seems optimistic.
I guess an EV (with V2L) would work in the same way and would save that ten minutes of trying to get the blaster generator to fire up again after months of not being used, but with the downside that you'd probably need to drive to a charger and recharge the car after a while.
And it's an inefficient waybof using your power due to the inverter overheads.
(I think you're supposed to run a generator every month or something to ensure it's working when you need it!
Certainly this applies to bigger ones)
Lister, the infotainment system on my 2 year old ID3 is utter shite. Pretty sure it’s powered by an old ZX81. This is my first VW car and it will be my last, though I’m still stuck with it for another 2 years 😒 My old Kia soul EV puts the ID3 to shame. With this car I can understand why VW is in shit street.
Infotainment in the ID7 seems fast and fine so far to me. I'd prefer individual physical buttons but have not found the touch buttons to be as much as a faff as reviews have made out. The system is powered up and my phone connected to AA normally before my bum hits the seat. The voice control via IDA doesn't seem that great, I've asked it what I would have thought were obvious commands and it didn't understand (though it does know how to ask chat gpt questions, what use is that FFS!).
I’m still wondering about the Polestar 4 but they had a point, it is not in the same ‘get in and go’ class
In what sense?
I'm sure an electrician will be along in a minute to explain why this is a terrible idea that will almost certainly end in disaster
I think the risk is that you might electrocute the poor sod who comes to fix your electrics, no? If so that's definitely something to not do.
You do know that the 245 miles will be against a standardised test cycle. Average speed for most test cycles is about 45-50kph. Doing 70mph (112kph) will give you about 6 times the drag. (So probably 5 times the energy consumption, depending on cooling load etc)
Yes, i know it's a massive simplification as the test cycle includes accelerations, decelerations and tops out at over 100kph. (But only for 5 minutes, which is about 20% of the test.)
I think it's crazy that people can look at a standardised test result and try and shoehorn it into their specific use case, and then complain when they fail, rather than using it as a benchmark against other vehicles in the same class.
I think you're being a bit unfair there. Take a step back for a moment and look at it from a consumer's POV.
When is range most critical?
-Long journeys
What do you use on long journeys?
-Fast roads
So how much of the test is at or over 70 MPH?
-Less than 10%
It's no wonder people are bamboozled by achieving half of their car's advertised range when this is the test cycle.
At long last I have my EV arriving next Wednesday. I went for a Scenic in the end, in Techno trim in black. Looking forward to it!
It came down to that and the Born. It was difficult to find the Born spec I wanted anywhere without waiting a few more months, and the deals were not quite as good on them.
It's no wonder people are bamboozled by achieving half of their car's advertised range when this is the test cycle.
It shouldn't be half, though. Most cars see less than the WTLP on the motorway (mine can equal it) but half is not what you'd expect.
I think you're being a bit unfair there. Take a step back for a moment and look at it from a consumer's POV.
Exactly. Consumers are being misold. For instance the WLTP test temperature is set at 23 degrees. There has NEVER been a single year in the UK when in ANY month has recorded an average temp of 23.....the highest ever average monthly temp was set in Aug 24 and that was 16.8 degrees.
Somebody above was refusing to entertain buying a VW due to dieselgate and rightly so yet we all seem happy to spend 50k on a car that is advertised with just as disingenuous specs.
EVs should ONLY be advertised with an efficiency figure (miles/Kwh) and this should be set on three courses (Urban, extra urban and highway) just like ICE cars and in market specific yearly average temps - in 2024 for the UK this was just under 10 degrees.
I think it's crazy that people can look at a standardised test result and try and shoehorn it into their specific use case, and then complain when they fail, rather than using it as a benchmark against other vehicles in the same class.
I agree but the second part of your statement also makes no sense unless all EVs underperform the WLTP by the same amount which of course they don't.
Its not like people are buying Golf carts here - or even city cars. If a car is designed as a large family SUV with towing capacity, roofrack capability and a price tag to match the a consumer can reasonably expect it to perform to its specs in most normal conditions found in the country its purchased. Every single ICE car I've had has done this, but the two EVs I've driven extensively (Leaf and Tesla) have not got anywhere near the claimed range when driven on motorways at 70 mph with a few people in them even in the summer let alone the winter.
Every single ICE car I've had has done this, but the two EVs I've driven extensively (Leaf and Tesla) have not got anywhere near the claimed range when driven on motorways at 70 mph with a few people in them even in the summer let alone the winter.
My previous ICE car had a claimed economy of 55 mpg whereas I averaged around 40 mpg. In contrast, my EV's claimed range translates to 4.4m/kWh and I get 4.3m/kWh.
Unless you’re buying on spec, with no cars currently in the market, surely everyone does their homework and goes to Google and puts “car type - real world range/mpg”. It’s the first thing I do once I’ve decided I like the look of the thing.
This is no doubt coming from the same people who said, “the government made me buy a diesel” They didn’t, your seeking of a better financial return made you buy a diesel. All the facts and figures around diesel, CO2, NOx and CO were there for all to see, as were the environmentalists and chemists (including Thatcher FFS!) who said chasing just Co2 and fuel economy was wrong.
Take some responsibility and do a bit of reasearch or don’t, but if you don’t, just STFU.
It shouldn't be half, though.It'll be close to that if you turn out of the end of your drive and almost immediately stick the cruise at 70. And leave it there for most of your entire journey.
I agree but the second part of your statement also makes no sense unless all EVs underperform the WLTP by the same amount which of course they don't.No, they underperform based on how you use them and what they are. An SUV with a similar nominal range, driven in a similar way will underperform a similar amount. There will be variation based on the specific aero properties and size and a smaller impact based on things like heatpump, climate and powertrain strategies. But in the main, they will be broadly comparable.
consumer can reasonably expect it to perform to its specs in most normal conditions found in the country its purchased.You mean, using WLTP range as a benchmark between similar vehicles, i.e. its specs.
Every single ICE car I've had has done this,Here you are comparing apples and oranges. Most ICE cars have a range around 800-1000 km, so most users will do multiple journeys, some high speed, some low speed, some mixed. So your short range EV, running at high speed will have a massive impact on range for that fill. Your fuel car will average out over multiple journeys so you one journey with high average consumption will be *significantly* less visible.
Take some responsibility and do a bit of reasearch or don’t, but if you don’t, just STFU.
I do hope this wasn't aimed at me.
Not exactly scientific, but carwow regularly do a test where they take a bunch of cars up the motorway until the run out of electrons. I think they try to keep the same settings as much as possible like temp in the cabin etc.
Based on comments above, this is worst case scenario for an EV (short of loading it up with a roof box and driving flat out up a hill, I suppose). A few cars manage the claimed range or even exceed it.
The top 14 get to 90%+ of claimed range. Many get below 80% claimed range.
The lowest gets to 64% of claimed range, which is probably approaching the range of the johndoh's Lexus experiences above.
35% variation in expected vs actual range does seem like a lot when you consider these cars were all put through approximately the same test. Maybe time of year would also play a massive role and can't really be controlled. It would perhaps be a useful addition to the results - temperature on the day of testing.
FWIW my Leon 2L diesel estate has a WLTP economy of 54.3–56.5 mpg and the real world economy according the the honest John realworldmpg thing is 55.9mpg so matches pretty well. I am currently getting 63mpg on average but most of my journeys are dual carriageway/motorway & I have a light foot. In the summer it was nearer 66mpg over a tank.
Only using about £125 of fuel a month so even though I would like one, it is hard to justify the outlay to swap to an electric car at the moment.
we all seem happy to spend 50k on a car that is advertised with just as disingenuous specs.
It's not disingenuous advertising, even though it looks like it. There's a standardised test, that's what all the manufacturers use. If you want to complain about the test, talk to the government. It's clearly a bobbins test, but then it always has been.
It'll be close to that if you turn out of the end of your drive and almost immediately stick the cruise at 70
Really? That's what I often do, living as I do just off the motorway. I can comfortably meet the WTLP range on my Ioniq at a steady 70; the Leaf was probably 20% down on WTLP, but I'd be shocked if I lost 50%. You're saying a 350 mile car only gets 180 miles of range at 70mph? Is that everyone else's experience?
You're saying a 350 mile car only gets 180 miles of range at 70mph? Is that everyone else's experience?
Nope!
WhatCar says 250 - 320 miles for my EV3. I’m currently getting about 270 on short mixed driving. On longer trips in the summer with A road and motorway stuff it was regularly around 310 -330 without trying. I normally have the adaptive cruise set at the speed limit and the ac on auto.
Long journey yesterday. 80% mway or dual carriageway with sat nav on 73. Not too cold for either battery need or heater to cause massive issue
got 3.3 miles per kwh. Range of car equates to 210 versus max I saw displayed in summer after a few consecutive bimbly journeys of 287.
so not an aspirational brand but keep noting how smart from an exterior design perspective the latest generation of Vauxhall evs are. appreciate they’re stelliantis underneath so possibly a bit crap in terms of EV metrics and infotainment?
got 3.3 miles per kwh. Range of car equates to 210 versus max I saw displayed in summer after a few consecutive bimbly journeys of 287.
How long was the trip?
So do you put that down to the colder weather or the fact that it was a long journey at 70-ish mph?
Charging, who went down the rabbit hole of adding solar and battery and using the cheap overnight rates?
I keep looking but currently just using my home charger as the default as it still seems cheaper than rhe increased EV plans.
750 mile work trip to Scotland and Northern Ireland with grandland 3.7 m/kWh.
Mostly Ionity. Fast chargers but never get near to my car's top charging speed - despite the 350w brag factor!
In Scotland it was always 35p/kWh charging if not ionity.
Charging, who went down the rabbit hole of adding solar and battery and using the cheap overnight rates?
I'm not sure the numbers really add up unless you're happy with a very long payback time.
I've got solar but no battery and can't see myself spending the money on them for very marginal returns.
(I'm on the early FIT rate though and get comparatively amazing money from it though)
I've had my EV3 for around six months and have done around nine thousand miles, including three long(ish) trips away (around 350, 400 and 500 miles each way, respectively) and I find it hard to understand the obsession everyone seems to have with range.
It's not just here. I occasionally look at the EV3 facebook group and it's full of posts from people getting excited, upset or even angry about whatever random number the car has suggested for the range today. Madness. What difference does that number actually make to your day?
Whenever anybody hears that I have an EV the first question is always "what's the range?". If I tell them that the WLTP figure is something around 350 miles (I can't remember the exact figure) the next question is always "but what is the real range?". At which point I'm stumped. Partly because the real figure would vary so much depending on weather and how you drive but mostly because it just isn't a number that has any impact on me so I can't be bothered to work it out. Range only matters if you don't have enough and if you do then more doesn't make any difference in my experience. But "enough" doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer to the "what is the range?" question, even if it is the only sensible one in my opinion.
I appreciate that things are different if you can't charge at home. But I can, so I basically treat my EV in the same way that I treat my phone. I plug them in when it is convenient for me to do so and they never run out of charge so I don't care how long they might theoretically last. It's just not a useful number, for me. Would my iphone last for two days or two weeks if I didn't charge it? I don't know and I don't care. I just know that sticking it on the charger when I do means that it never runs out of charge and that's basically the same for my EV.
I plug my car in at night, so every morning the battery is at 80% which is plenty for any journeys that I might make on a normal day. It makes no difference to me whether the battery is at 60% or 20% at the end of the day. It's going to be back to 80% next morning regardless. So its theoretical range on any given day is a meaningless number for me. It's a lot more than I'm going to be driving that day anyway.
On a long trip I might set it to charge to 100% the night before. Although I forgot before a 500 mile trip and found that it didn't actually make any difference in practice. I just get in the car and drive until I want to stop. Then I use the in-car navigation system to see which decent-power chargers near my route look the quietest and head for one of them. When I've finished doing what I wanted to do, I get back in the car and go. I've never waited for the car to charge and I've never had to stop to charge it. I just stop when I want to and go again when I'm ready.
Now, of course, that's very specific to me. My bladder/stomach range is about three hours these days (which equates to around 150 miles) and I probably do take a bit longer at stops that I did when I was younger. But, basically, as long as your real EV range is longer than your bladder/stomach range and it charges acceptably quickly, the exact range figure doesn't actually matter. Getting to a charger with a bit more charge left doesn't make any useful difference in my experience. Especially as the car tends to charge more quickly the lower the state of charge.
Yes both temperature and motorway speeds have quite a big impact on what is a fairly un aerodynamic ionic five.
so looking at Hyundai used cars and other secondhand sites none of them actually allow you to filter for heat pump or battery preconditioning which is just nuts and that’s such a factor in terms of the specification for EV’s.
Really? That's what I often do, living as I do just off the motorway. I can comfortably meet the WTLP range on my Ioniq at a steady 70; the Leaf was probably 20% down on WTLP, but I'd be shocked if I lost 50%. You're saying a 350 mile car only gets 180 miles of range at 70mph? Is that everyone else's experience?
Your car has a comparatively small frontal area, compare to the size/shape of the poster's car, a Lexus RZ.
It would be better IMO if the test were presented with a separate highway/mixed figure. Also if it were tested at 23c and 5c and the average taken.
so looking at Hyundai used cars and other secondhand sites none of them actually allow you to filter for heat pump or battery preconditioning which is just nuts and that’s such a factor in terms of the specification for EV’s.
Yes I'm trying to buy two EVs at the moment and it is proving really time consuming. Half the time on autotrader the traders don't know even when you phone them up.