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No, you plug it in. FFS.
Much how 99.9999% of the global ICE owning population do. Fill it up.
Though to be fair, if i was the sort of numpty who regularly ran out of fuel in an ICE, i'd probably get one of those with an EV. Can't teach an old dog and all that.
A jerry can of electrons ?
Why would you need a jerry can when you’ve got a hose?
oh me , its that simple - wonder why Winston hasn't thought of that.........
Yes, it kinda is that simple.
I’ve been driving various EVs across the UK for the past 3 years and have never even tickled the bottom 10% of the battery capacity. No great effort in planning required, just a sensible amount that you would apply to any type of journey regardless of fuel type. If anything, it’s easier with an EV as , at any given time, you’re way more likely to be closer to a 240v 3 pin socket than you are to a petrol station.
Simple things like driving from Brighton to the 02 for a gig and having to scrape around dodgy parts of London at midnight afterwards to find power because the O2 chargers were offline
I can understand if that was your experience then it could put you off owning an EV and to be honest, if you don't think an EV will work for you that's fine. But a quick look on Zapmap shows that there are 12 (open to all) Tesla chargers right by the O2 arena. There are also 2 BP Pulse, 6 Fastned and 8 MFG chargers just 2 miles away on the A206 and that's just limiting myself to chargers over 100 kw. Most modern EVs can tell you where your nearest charge points are, what power they deliver and whether or not they are currently available and if they can't apps like ZapMap or ABRP can, so there is really no need to "scrape around dodgy parts of London" looking for a charger these days.
As for the need to plan ahead; we recently had a long weekend in the Lakes That's 300 miles each way and around 100 miles of driving around while there. Being the sort of person I am I had researched various charging options in advance. However, when it came to it I ignored all that and we just stopped when we wanted to. Once I'd entered my route into the navigation system, my car (like many modern EVs) tells me what chargers are coming up on the route, what power they offer and how many are currently available at each location. So, it was simple enough to just look at the list when we felt like a stop and pick an suitable place.
I can't really see why I would run out of juice in an EV to be honest. But then, in over 40 years of driving, I've never run out of petrol either.
Brighton to the O2 and back is easily do-able with a little forward planning, We could do that with at least 80 miles to spare in our iX3. But then i would also have filled up the ICE with enough petrol beofre leaving on a trip like that. Sounds like that might have been few years ago when range was poor and charing infrastructure was poor. Mate had an early Tesla and he had some range and charging issues about 7 years ago.
Mrs Epic went to Sevenoaks the other day, and hadn't plugged in the evening before. She had enough to get there, not to get back. I told her she was a numpty, but she just drove to a 150Kw charger at Sainsbury there, plugged in for 10 minutes and had enough to drive home.
You can make range an issue if you want to avoid an EV, but in the real world it just isn't for (i think) everyone on this thread who has an EV including long-trips
I’ve been driving various EVs across the UK for the past 3 years and have never even tickled the bottom 10% of the battery capacity
To be fair you have had some nice long range cars. And it's quite situation-dependent. If I drive around Wales it can be quite tight, but if I had a 300 mile car it would indeed be fairly easy. But if I'm on the motorway network it's an absolute cinch.
To be fair you have had some nice long range cars.
Yes, but equally I’ve been to some very remote places.
Even in a 200 mile range car it would have been equally possible and slightly more inconvenient but I doubt there’s anywhere in the Uk that’s more than 100 miles from a rapid charger and therefore accessible to an EV.
First thoughts were that the passenger cabin is massive
Yeah, when mine turned up I was shocked at the space. Driver space I wouldn’t say is anything overly special, but the back is cavernous. The boot under the parcel shelf is big, you lose quite a bit in the tourer above the parcel shelf due to the angle of the rear window. But we did a 2 week holiday with 1 large and 2 small suitcases, plus a box of food and various other sundries for 2 kids all under the shelf.
I doubt there’s anywhere in the Uk that’s more than 100 miles from a rapid charger and therefore accessible to an EV
Yes, but there are some places where the only chargers for miles around are single units, which isn't ideal. Not many - and as you know I am a big EV fan, but I would stop short of saying there's never an issue.
My polestar has, probably at best, a 220 mile range. It’s a big car, and often has a roof rack on it. The newer ones are more economic and give a better range.
I’ve done Brighton to the O2 a few times, with no issues, and no need to charge. Forgive me, but what car do you have that won’t make that? I guess my old Leaf would struggle and need a quick top up.. but most EVs nowadays would do that with no issues.
And unlike @perchypanther I actually get a little tickle in my loins when I dip below 10%!!! But the rangeometer in the P2 is actually VERY good, and a tad pessimistic, so I’m happy doing a fair old journey if it tells me I’ll arrive home with 4% battery, because it will usually end up being 6%. And 6% is more than ZERO, so i just get home..plug in..and go to bed…!
And The beast is fully (well, 90% that it’s set to) charged again come the morning!
DrP
My guessometer is very accurate, but there can still be issues. The other day my wife came up to see my parents and we were only at 80% charge which doesn't leave much to spare. But we know the route and knew of a couple of chargers on the way home just in case. However there was an accident on the route and a diversion through a load of lanes (bad for efficiency) and avoiding the charger we'd have used. So she had no choice but to press on to another one and that was squeaky bum time. This scenario is quite rare but it happens. What's more common is overnight closures on the M4....
you lose quite a bit in the tourer above the parcel shelf due to the angle of the rear window
We can normally pack dog + everything for 2 adults and 2 kids in the current golf without exceeding the parcel shelf height so I suspect there is plenty of room. Would be fitting a cage behind the rear headrests and to divide the boot.
if I had a 300 mile car it would indeed be fairly easy. But if I'm on the motorway network it's an absolute cinch.
Just out of curiosity (I think you have school age children but forgive me if wrong) how on earth do you find not horrible motorway charging spots on Fridays / Saturdays in the main summer holidays?
We went to the South lakes in July (~300 miles) in the main school holidays. Even leaving full in a decent family shaped/sized EV we would have needed one fairly chunky charge or two smaller ones and given remote cottage (better for dog and bike storage) traffic jams/hardcore AC use etc. No issues with that on paper as it's a two stop trip (minimum) in the ICE anyway.
BUT The nicer services were absolutely rammed in both directions to the point where getting in and finding parking for an ICE car was tricky enough let alone a vacant rapid (they're usually by the door so you can see they're full). There were spots at the gruesome services but they're not places I'd want to sit for long (or at all).
We have similar experiences going to Suffolk (180 miles) where we have family in school hols if we travel by day / Friday or Sunday evening.
Just out of curiosity (I think you have school age children but forgive me if wrong) how on earth do you find not horrible motorway charging spots on Fridays / Saturdays in the main summer holidays?
When I was playing with the better route planner site yesterday to see what Southampton to the lakes would look like one of the stops it suggested was just off the motorway. I can't remember exactly where it was but looked like one of the reasonable national food chains with a site 2 mins from a motorway junction with a load of rapid chargers and a play park.
@nixie thanks that's interesting. We have 2 years left of the current diesel but use of car is changing (less long haul towing in particular) so I might yet get to make the switch at next change but with ageing parents in East Anglia and school holidays for another 5 years I'm trying to inform myself not talk myself out of it. I don't subscribe to "charging easier than ICE" (fill up twice a month is zero bother) but I'll happily take "its a bit more faff on long trips and you mostly plug in at home". 🙂
I’ve done Brighton to the O2 a few times, with no issues, and no need to charge. Forgive me, but what car do you have that won’t make that? I guess my old Leaf would struggle
It was last year some time in a first gen MG ZS which probably had 60-70% of a 150 mile range left when leaving Brighton. Obviously I know there are plenty of cars that can do the O2 and back without blinking on a full charge. I've had an EV for 10 years and so have a couple of mates. In fact the one who was driving used to work on Fully Charged back in the day when it was just a tiny You Tube channel. I think this is the point. When you have driven EVs a lot and the novelty has worn off then you lose your rose tinted glasses - I reckon early days of Tesla Supercharging was the high point.
My little Leaf is perfect for what i use it for, never goes near a fast charger, only gets charged at home, just use it for local journeys, wouldn't dream of taking it on a long journey - that's what I have a Hybrid for which I also bought 11 years ago when nobody had really heard of them except for the Prius.
However now I have to make the choice - another Hybrid or an EV. I was going to buy a 2nd hand Renault Megane a couple of weeks ago but decided at the last minute not to as my wife might have been able to get salary sacrifice - unfortunately that has now also fallen through so now its back to looking at second hand/ex demo.....I'll probably end up buying another EV and another Hybrid as that worked before.
I don't subscribe to "charging easier than ICE" (fill up twice a month is zero bother) but I'll happily take "its a bit more faff on long trips and you mostly plug in at home". 🙂
In our case it is more like once or twice a week to fill up the ICE car. At which point you do start to notice how much easier it is to just plug the car in on your drive and not have to make all those little trips to the garage. But I agree, it's safer to think of an EV as being a bit easier to live with day to day and a bit more faff on a long trip. That's certainly what I expected, which is why I was a bit surprised at how easy that long weekend to the Lakes turned out to be.
Now, to get back to your original question, that is one trip, in the summer. Our kids have now left school (so it was just the two of us), we travelled down on a Thursday (and back on a Monday) and we are coming down from the north rather than up from the more congested south. So, we certainly had a few things in our favour and I'm sure there will be more challenging trips in the future. I'm still working on the assumption that the long trip south to visit the inlaws over the Christmas break will be more faff, for example.
I take your point about some service stations being a nightmare though. Even on that trip we elected to avoid the Gretna services (which can get mobbed) and travel a few miles further south to Todhills, where there are 12 (open to all) Tesla chargers and 6 (or is it 8?) Gridserve ones next to a Costa. There is nothing else there except a BP garage and a Travelodge, so it doesn't get too crowded.
We've had nightmare stops in the petrol car too of course and where we tend to stop has evolved over the years as we've found different options and other ones have become worse. I'm sure the same will happen with the EV. Service stations that were already busy where they've just installed a few chargers are probably going to be the ones to avoid.
I'm going to counter that with the thought that someone who has been in EVs for 10 years might be coming to 2025 with some old tech hangups and battle scars. Someone who has bought an EV in the last sat 2 years of relatively modern capabilities just won't appreciate the problem with your O2 journey because the only equipment they have used wouldn't have those issues. Yes, upscale to needing to drive from Brighton to Coventry (in which case you'd have other issues in your life!) then yes charging would be a thing. I've come across a few chargers in 'quirky' locations I'd not otherwise stop in I suppose. As everything upscales you'd think that would become less of an issue.
I know I'm only couple of months in but I can't see me going back. There are a couple of trips ahead to the more remote parts of the west coast of the Highlands (with a 20ft long boat on the roof) which I foresee being logistically slightly challenging but other than that it's been a cinch so far.
I have a Hybrid for which I also bought 11 years ago
I've never managed to get my head around hybrids, so it's interesting to hear that one has worked for you over a long period. Can I ask how many miles you have put on it in those 11 years? Is it a "proper" plug-in hybrid or just a "regular" hybrid? Technically our remaining ICE car is a hybrid but really it's just a petrol car with a small battery/motor that makes it a tiny bit more efficient.
My brothers both currently have plug-in hybrid cars and like them. But they are both people who are happy to spend a lot more on their cars than I am and change them every 2-3 years.
I can't get past the idea that, at any time, you are lugging around a whole drivetrain that you aren't using and that both are compromised. The motor and battery of the EV part are both a lot smaller than they would be in a pure BEV and you could have a much bigger petrol engine in a car of the same size and weight if you didn't have the battery and motor. It just seems logical that over, say, a 15-year 150,000 mile lifetime of a car the PHEV is going to cost more to maintain that either a BEV or a pure ICE car (more things to go wrong, more wear and tear from the extra weight etc).
The advantages are obvious of course. You get the (much nicer) experience of driving around using electric power for shorter journeys, plus the insurance of being able to make longer journeys with less faff. But as the high-speed charging network expands (number of 150kw+ chargers increased by 55% in the year to July) the chance of extra faff decreases and as the range of BEVs increases (plenty around the 400 mile mark now) the number of trips where there is even the risk of extra faff goes down to the point where a PHEV starts to look like an unnecessary extra expense. But it sounds as though we are not there yet.
how on earth do you find not horrible motorway charging spots on Fridays / Saturdays in the main summer holidays?
I don't drive the main motorway network at those times because it's shit regardless of what you're driving.
I've never managed to get my head around hybrids
I can't get my head around people who can't get their head around them. Pepole tend to drive short trips or long ones. Short trips - battery only, long trips petrol. I might drive one long trip every month or two, so I'd be only burning petrol 6-12 times a year. I guess it depends if you are thinking about money or the environment.
you could have a much bigger petrol engine in a car of the same size and weight if you didn't have the battery and motor.
Well, not really - but why would you want a bigger petrol engine? With hybrid, you can have loads of power like a big petrol engine but still the economy of a small engine when you want to just drive along.
the thought that someone who has been in EVs for 10 years might be coming to 2025 with some old tech hangups and battle scars.
I agree. I bought an EV four years ago, a refreshed version of a relatively old design (VW e-Up). It does what we need it to do (it's our 'local trips' car) but it doesn't know anything about where chargers might be, and fast chargers are irrelevant as it won't charge faster than about 23kW whatever the charger is capable of. The charging interface is clunky and not very flexible compared to what people are describing on newer cars, eg, I can't set it charge to 80% then stop. I'm still pleased we bought it, and looking forward replacing our 'long distance' car with an EV when the time comes.
I can't get my head around people who can't get their head around them.
To be fair, I did say the advantages were obvious. I just can't understand why the disadvantages of paying to buy and maintain two separate drivetrains when you can only use one at a time aren't equally obvious.
I was watching an Electrifying youtube video recently and they talked about a PHEV with a 66 kwh battery and a 2 litre petrol engine. I think they hit they nail on the head when they said that it was just a big waste of resources and felt like the last desperate attempt by the fossil fuel industry to make internal combustion engines relevant for a bit longer. You are basically lugging around a whole petrol engine just because you might need it one day.
But they clearly work for some people and the fact that I can't understand the logic isn't their problem.
I don't drive the main motorway network at those times because it's shit regardless of what you're driving.
Not always a luxury that we have without significant other compromises (like accommodation typically running working week because that's what everyone does).
Slightly more reassured by roverpig's answer though.
You are basically lugging around a whole petrol engine just because you might need it one day.
OK so a large EV these days generally has around a 80kwh battery. A Phev of the same size might have say a 25kwh battery and a 2L engine which weighs say an extra 200kg
A quick google shows that batteries weigh around 7kg per Kwh on average so the difference between 25 and 80kwh is 385kg...if the driver is using the Phev to run back and forth to work 90% of the time on EV and then occasionally driving further afield, sorry who is lugging around excess weight again?
Even a small Phev like the Niro weighs 160kg less than the EV equivalent.
Sorry, I wasn't talking about weight. You are right that EVs are heavy and that is something that will hopefully improve with new battery technologies. I was talking about complexity i.e. lugging around a whole internal combustion engine just because you think it might be useful for 10% of your journeys (a percentage that would presumably drop if the battery were bigger anyway).
Personally I think PHEVs are a stepping stone at best and I can't see them having a long term future, but one obviously works for you at the moment, which is all that matters really.
dunno with the exception of the ultra mild butter chicken hybrid 5008 i had - ive found non plug in hybrids to be great.
admittedly i use them as hire cars - in areas i dont know where the chargers are with unfamiliar interfaces often not updated to show latest data .
the toyota chr was doing 70 mpg fully loaded with the whole family - the Prius even better , The toyota avensis somewhere in the middle and probably what id buy with my money - nice place to sit , not made of duckspit and toilet paper and efficient/tested tech
had an mg3 hybrid that did 0-60 in about 7 seconds when overtaking tractors while returning 80 mpg over the week. - those were that cars only redeeming features. sitting at the lights with the car doign 4000rpm like it was on launch control got boring fast.
not sure i can support just bolting bigger bigger batteries into cars - cars weights are already a problem and a massively contributory factor to the severity of accidents.
Even a small Phev like the Niro weighs 160kg less than the EV equivalent.
Fill the petrol tank and it's closer.
Kerb weights of vehicles quoted by mfgs include a full tank of fuel.
lugging around a whole internal combustion engine just because you think it might be useful for 10% of your journeys
Not all journeys are the same. Some are more important to us than others. Let's say you take two holidays a year - they are only a small percentage of your journeys but they are important and you want a car that will let you do them. Otherwise, it's no good.
I have considered a PHEV because I like to tow a few times a year. The only reason I haven't got one is because that car does very few local journeys because I work at home. If I were commuting I would get a PHEV, run it on battery all the time except for holidays where it would tow like an ICE and do more than 150 miles between stops.
Found this an interesting product, as someone that appreciates simpler offerings and would have no issues going back to wind up windows, I already don't have a functioning stereo so this would be a major step up in features.
Most interesting thing about that video (or the first few minutes) is the idea that billionaires might put their money to work to create something useful. That and the idea that making it an EV can reduce R&D costs for a new business.
I've seen a few posts on social media about folk having the cables from their chargers stolen. Is that really a thing? What a shit world we live in!
Well, maybe, but isn't that basically situation normal? It's just changed from having the windows smashed in and the stereo ripped out, which seems like 90s thing now I've thought more about it.
My car locks the cable when the car is locked, and my home charger has a tethered cable. I've only used a small number of public chargers but they also seem to have locked when in use (whether the cable was tethered or where I had to use my own).
I suspect the social media posts are just spreading fear & confusion, as the cable and connection are fairly well protected and messing with a high speed charger feels like an invitation to the Darwin Awards.
I've seen a few posts on social media about folk having the cables from their chargers stolen. Is that really a thing? What a shit world we live in!
Yes, it is a thing. I've been to a fair few public chargers where the cables have been cut away by thieves.
For that reason, if I had a wall box fitted at home, I'd probably opt for untethered. Cables are not being unplugged and stolen while in use. They are being cut when not in use
I suspect the social media posts are just spreading fear & confusion, as the cable and connection are fairly well protected and messing with a high speed charger feels like an invitation to the Darwin Awards.
Is that because that's what you want it to be ? Because it's not really. There's even brazen folk videoing then selves doing it and posting on social media portraying as guides for others to do the same.
If I was king I'd make them permanently live to the plug full time. That would solve it instantly....or at least save on a police chase
Well I am back from my annual pilgrimage from the Deep South of Ireland to central Scotland and again charging was no issue anywhere. I paid €5 for a monthly subscription and reduced rates with IONITY as these serve my route well in both countries. This served me well going to Scotland, with stops south and north of Dublin and at Belfast. Last year I charged to 80%+ at every stop due to range anxiety but this year my plan was a bit more of a splash and dash approach trying to not waste time charging when I didn’t need to. Once in Scotland I used a granny charger for the first time (we got one with my wife’s car last month), god they are sloooow, so what I did was charge the car up at a fast charger then just left it on the granny whenever the car was not in use the rest of the time and in 2 weeks I never needed another fast charge. Coming home was a bit different. I kept misjudging how much charge I needed to get to the next IONITY charger. The next stop was say, 150miles away so I would put in about 200miles (aimed for about 20% margin of error) but was quickly realising I would not get to where I wanted. The only reason I was aiming for IONITY was to save literally a few quid (maybe a tenner all in), so to avoid stressing I gave up on my IONITY plan and just stopped whenever I wanted at fastned/esb which were all freely available. It may of cost a couple of quid extra per charge but was less hassle that trying to calculate range etc. so for my next long trip I don’t think I will try and save a few quid tying myself to a single provider and just stop whenever I want, wherever I want (like I used to in an ICE) and pay a few quid more for the convenience. It was good to see the chargers I used were all contactless too so no more faffing with apps.
The advantages are obvious of course. You get the (much nicer) experience of driving around using electric power for shorter journeys, plus the insurance of being able to make longer journeys with less faff.
The main advantage of PHEVs, as I understood it, was the tax advantage as a BIK company car. That's stopping at the end of 2025.
Was at an Instavolt fast charger at the weekend and in the bay next to me the person was a bit confused and struggling to connect their car. They were using the type 2 home cable, and looking where to plug it in. I offered to help and suggested that this type of charger wouldn't work on their car as required a different connection (the car was an A3 plug in hybrid with only a type 2 socket). They replied advising that it worked the other day.
They then plugged the car end in, and the other end into the CCS connector itself. I then walked away.
Sorry, are you saying they ran an AC lead between the CCS connector in a DC fast charger and their car?
Never even occurred to me that the it's would all fit, let alone actually charge a car.
I suspect the social media posts are just spreading fear & confusion, as the cable and connection are fairly well protected
A bank of 6 at Ludlow Sainsbury's lost 5 of their high speed cables. Seems like the same gang went around all over the West Mids nicking them.
Most interesting thing about that video (or the first few minutes) is the idea that billionaires might put their money to work to create something useful. That and the idea that making it an EV can reduce R&D costs for a new business.
Topgear video on the Slate