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So is it worth it? I see intelligent does something automatic for you, but Im guessing with regular Go tariff I can just set a charge schedule on charger / car to only charge from 12.30am - 5.30? Or am I missing something more?
I have experience of both Octopus Go and Octopus Intelligent Go, so here’s my summary.
For the Intelligent to work, you need either the car or the charger to be on the Octopus list of compatible devices. My last car was a BMW i4, charger is an Easee One. The car was compatible, the charger isn’t, so it all worked.
I now have a Kia EV3, still with the Easee charger, however now with a non compatible car, Intelligent is not an option so I have swopped to Octopus Go.
With my current setup, I have the car programmed to charge when cheap rate, which is 1230 - 530am. I have the car set to stop at 530, regardless of charge level, which has a target I have set in the car of 80%.
Those 5 hours of cheap rate charging will give me about 40%, so if it starts at say 30% it will stop at 530am with about 70% charge. If it starts with say 60% it will stop around 3am with 80%.
Intelligent Go is much smarter, you set the Octopus App to have the car reach your set target charge for a set time, so I would have it set to 80% for 0700. You could plug the car in at any time the day before, with any amount of battery charge and it would find and use cheap slots, in the afternoon, evening, night, to achieve the target. Assuming of course that at 7.5kW/hr the amount of charge required could be delivered in the number of hours between plugging in and the ready by target time you had set.
A further benefit of Intelligent Go is that when car is charging, the whole house goes to cheap rate, so if you see that the App has set up a schedule where it’s charging from say 7pm till 9pm, then a good opportunity to put on dryer, dishwasher etc.
Generally efficiency drops by quite a bit. In my diesel it dropped by about 25% roughly. So expect to lose 25% range. It's a bummer. Bikes on the back might also lower efficiency but they equally might not affect it or even slightly increase it depending on the shape of the back of the car.
I suppose all cars are different, but that sounds pretty high.
Both of the diesel cars I have stuck a couple of bikes on the roof of, have seen about a 10-12% fuel economy hit; no way 25%.
I guess with all the different factors, in reality it will be hard to gauge unless you try it out.
One advantage of assuming very worst case 25%; if its better than that you are winning 👍
but chatting to our Thule Rep, the towbar mounted cargo boxes like the Onto2 and Arcos have fractionally increased range on an Enyaq and Polestar in testing.
have they published this testing ?
suspicious cat is suspicious of people selling things making claims that go against expected outcome.
I have been scratching my head as the most efficient trip I have had was to Cannock with 2 e-bikes on a bike carrier.
I have been scratching my head as the most efficient trip I have had was to Cannock with 2 e-bikes on a bike carrier.
Did you drive slower than usual?
Definitely more carefully !
Speed was dictated by other motorway traffic.
Still, I had expected it to plummet.
'but chatting to our Thule Rep, the towbar mounted cargo boxes like the Onto2 and Arcos have fractionally increased range on an Enyaq and Polestar in testing'
I assume it's possible that it improves the aerodynamics in a not very obvious. Similarly if you are cycling with someone stuck to your wheel it improves the aerodynamics for the leader slightly. (Or so modelling suggests)
suspicious cat is suspicious of people selling things making claims that go against expected outcome.
Yeah this is plausible. There'll be a vortex behind your car that creates a low pressure area that you have to pull air into. Sometimes the presence of something in that vortex reduces it which reduces your drag, but has to be the right size and shape which is probably somewhat smaller than the back of your car. It might be that one of those towbar mounted boxes is nearly the right size to fill up the vortex on certain cars.
Along similar lines, sometimes a little spoiler on the back of a car breaks up the flow so the vortex doesn't form in the same way and counter-intuitively improves efficiency. Those little pop-up ones on Porsches and similar come up when they get to motorway speeds, and it's for efficiency not downforce.
So is it worth it? I see intelligent does something automatic for you, but Im guessing with regular Go tariff I can just set a charge schedule on charger / car to only charge from 12.30am - 5.30? Or am I missing something more?
I'm on Octopus Go but not Intelligent. I wrote an analysis on it a few weeks back, in short with 5 hours a night at 7kW and 3.8mi/KWh that's 12,775kWh or 48,500 miles a year. I do 13-14k which is pretty high and it's barely a third of my capacity.
The comparison was to a new 6hr/night E.On tariff that was a penny per kW cheaper, I don't need another 2500kWh and the £40-odd per year saving - I'd happily pay that to avoid dealing with E.On's service.
To those that say you get cheaper electricity when charging....true but in comparison to charging how much do you use? A washing machine for an hour is about 2.1kW - that costs 56p and could be 17p if I ran overnight / at charging times. Is there much hassle to having to rush to get the washing machine on when you realise the car's gone on charge, or can you get devices that recognise that and start the washer accordingly. Bear in mind after a friend's house burnt down, I don't run appliances overnight, and no amount of 'extremely rare' is talking me into being burnt alive to save a few pennies.
aside from the appliances shift (still dont use my tumble drier at night) charge the batteries - 10kw and i heat up the hot water in winter ..... another 14/15kw.
Could easily be 25kw a night .....
Is there much hassle to having to rush to get the washing machine on when you realise the car's gone on charge, or can you get devices that recognise that and start the washer accordingly. Bear in mind after a friend's house burnt down, I don't run appliances overnight,
The times it charges during the day are vanishingly rare - but then I am only charging about 4-5kWh a night usually, but even when I am filling up I rarely see anything during the day. So if you don't want appliances on during the night, don't bother.
PS I suspect you're more likely to be killed whilst driving the car than you are by your washing machine. Drier maybe.
So is it worth it? I see intelligent does something automatic for you, but Im guessing with regular Go tariff I can just set a charge schedule on charger / car to only charge from 12.30am - 5.30? Or am I missing something more?
A further benefit of Intelligent Go is that when car is charging, the whole house goes to cheap rate, so if you see that the App has set up a schedule where it’s charging from say 7pm till 9pm, then a good opportunity to put on dryer, dishwasher etc.
OK, so regular Octopus go doesnt allow you to use other appliances at night cheaply?
OK, so regular Octopus go doesnt allow you to use other appliances at night cheaply?
It does allow that . That's exactly what I have.
Yes, it does, but only between 1230 and 530 am. We aren’t fans of running washer drier etc while upstairs asleep though.
As I'm a bit sad...not emotionally, but as I'm posting this...just charged car to 100% on a 7kw charger and it is telling me I've got 251 miles range...
I don't seem to get a consistent full range guesstimate as it can range by quite a margin. Aware it largely is a guesstimate but it would be really good if it was a more accurate guess.
Yeh not known as a guessometer for nothing - but actually there is no way it can be accurate for what you're about to do because your last journey may have been uphill with the AC fighting against 32 deg c and your next journey predominantly downhill with the ac off.....
My Hyundai tends to sort itself out mid journey (where a decent length of say 25 miles plus) and I now trust it pretty much to get me home no worries down to 2-4% level if needed. Driving Mrs Ps Leaf the other day and that consistently used more range than miles travelled at motorway speeds without adjusting itself which was a bit disconcerting (older tech). Makes topping up with the minimum expensive KWh from public rapid chargers, with just enough range shown to get home, more of a lottery.
When you get to know the car you know how far it will go in a given set of conditions; road type, temperature, terrain etc. and give up taking any notice of the range estimate which is calcualted on the type of driving you've just done not on what you are going to do. Then you learn where the charge points are that make best use of the range you have and are perhaps convenient in other ways. If I head north east I charge at Tesla near Leclerc in Albi, next stop on the A75 etc.
Seems like most chargers work with Octopus go, only some more expensive ones work with Intelligent Go
I have an Indra Smart Pro which is compatible with IOG which was considerably cheaper than the equivilent Ohme / Zappi etc. They seem to be discontinued but still available from a few places https://www.ecowizard.co.uk/ev-chargers/indra-smart-pro-tethered-7-4kw/
I had holiday in deepest SW Cornwall last week, including the drive to and from Penzance (260 miles e/w) so close to nominal range in a 64kWh Kona, but way over considering 4 up and kit at motorway speeds for a fair chunk.
Although I moaned at the availability of fast chargers in the area, I didn't have an issue, never had to wait for a charger to be available*, did a couple of specific trips to use a charger (Tesla at Camborne once, and a 40kW one 3 miles outside PZ once) the rest of the time was on AC chargers in car parks where we were anyway. I never once felt limited.
* in fact the opposite...being Cornwall in summer car parks were busy and a couple of times ICE cars were hovering for parking spaces but I could just get onto a charging space straightaway.
On range - estimates were a bit sketchy on the drive there and back. To start it was saying I had just enough to make it but clearly I could see my trip average and estimate from % battery what I thought that would do and it was a fair bit less than the car was saying. Then as it used more battery the car's estimate and mine started to coalesce. As long as you can do basic maths (and the current average is accurate) I know each 10% gives me 6kWh and so on.
It's also not about what the range is when you're calculating your 'comfort' level.....rather what your 'spare' is compared to the journey. When I had 100 miles to the intended stop and the car said I had 130 miles of range (but yeah, chinny) you're a bit nervous. When you get to 50 miles to go and 70 miles of range it's a different thing. And then getting to 25 to go and 40 of range and you start to relax.
It's funny how the number on the geussometer seems to generate so much interest when, in practice, I find it to be almost irrelevant. Forums, facebook pages etc are full of people posting and pontificating over whatever number is showing in their car today. My own car (EV3) insists on showing the number prominently on the dashboard at all times. Although it then shows you a min and max that basically says "this number is effectively meaningless". And most of the time it is.
I can charge overnight at home (most things with an EV change if you can't) and I know that an average day of commuting and other trips uses around 20% of my battery. So, double it and add a margin get's me to 50%. If the battery is above 50% at the end of the day I know I will have more than enough for the next day (unless I know I am doing something unusual). If not I'll stick it on charge overnight. So, for 90% of the time the range number is irrelevant. I know the car has enough capacity to cover the journeys I will do today and it makes no difference to me what the capacity is when I plug it in as I'll be asleep while it is charging.
You might think the guessometer would be more useful on a long trip, but I've not found that to be the case either. For a start, it is less accurate as the mix of roads on a long trip tends to be different to the mix at home (on which it is basing its estimate). But again it's not really what matters. All I care about is whether I can reach my next stop or not. I have a little window on the navigation page that tells me what it expects the percentage to be at the next stop. If that number is above 10% I can just forget about range. If it drops below 10% I might have to start thinking about whether I want to stop earlier or whether I want to slow down a bit to ensure I get to my stop with plenty left. The range estimate doesn't tell me anything useful. All I care about is whether or not I can reach my next stop and an estimated percentage at the next stop is far more useful than an estimated range.
It's funny how the number on the geussometer seems to generate so much interest when, in practice, I find it to be almost irrelevant
It matters when you have a journey to do that is close to your max range and if there aren't many chargers on your route. You have to gamble on wether or not to stop, but you'd rather not as rapid charging is so expensive. We went to my parents' the other weekend and had forgotten to top the car up so we started with 75%. We topped up before coming home, which cost £6 but it nearly quadrupled the price of the trip. In that case the estimate is important.
I've got my car connected to Home Assistant so have that configured to give me an effective 100% range by dividing the car's guess by the charge %age. As you can see it bounces around a bit (line is mean, shading is max and min) and depends as much on whether I'm mainly doing local miles or motorway as the temperature. Ignore the peak in Feb - that was an error.
First longish trip to London 322 miles with the Grandland EV.
Charge up at home.(73kWh battery) @6.7p pkW
Return 4.7kWh
Charge at hotel for 20 mins get 15kwh £12
Get home with 60 miles to spare. (Basically what I put in as safety net.)
Looks like it did 330-340 miles on the tank but likely range is slightly conservative or m/kWh is optimistic.
Either way that is not what I expected for motorway M1 driving. Better than expected. Probably 70% on dynamic cruise too.
Car freshly cleaned as I reckon that's worth the effort.
It matters when you have a journey to do that is close to your max range and if there aren't many chargers on your route. You have to gamble on wether or not to stop, but you'd rather not as rapid charging is so expensive.
Ok, maybe I’m being pedantic (nothing new there) but I’d still argue that what you want there is not a range figure but an estimate of the remaining charge at your destination. Luckily for me my car will give me both. You could argue that it amounts to the same thing but quoting an estimated range rather than estimated percentage at the destination plays into this myth that range is all that matters with an EV when in practice the number itself is irrelevant and all that really matters is whether you have enough or not
I’d still argue that what you want there is not a range figure but an estimate of the remaining charge at your destination.
Well, when you know you have 60 miles to go and the dash says 65 miles, you need to know it's accurate. That's more useful than estimating 2% charge left at your destination, IMO. Maybe headroom is more useful i.e. the difference between projected range and remaining distance.
If there's 60 miles to go I take no notice of the predicted range, I drive in a way that with the % battery remaining I know I'll get there. On one occasion a few years back we rushed junior to the airport to catch a plane in unfavourable conditions (cold, raining, head wind). Predicted range on dropping him off said there wasn't enough to get even half way to the next charge point. However, I knew that at 50kmh the car would do it and it did, fortunately it was very early morning with no traffic so not too anti-social.
Yes, maybe a “will I make it” gauge on the dash that goes from “no worries” to “no chance” 😀 Of course, in practice whether it shows predicted range (plus miles to go) or predicted percentage at destination doesn’t really matter and we ca work with either. But I don’t think this obsession with range as a number is helping.
For example, it leads to a situation where consumers think that a car with a 500 mile range is de-facto better than one with a 400 mile range when for most people it is just a car that is more expensive than it needs to be.
Phone manufacturers don’t seem to bother trying to calculate exactly how long the battery will last. I’m sure it’s buried in the specs somewhere but it’s not a number that is considered to be important. If they talk about capacity it’s usually just in a “plenty to last a day” sort of way. I think EV manufacturers would be better off adopting a similar stance. Yes WLTP range needs to be in the specs and for some people it might be important, but for most of us, once it’s “enough” the actual number doesn’t really matter.
Phone manufacturers don’t seem to bother trying to calculate exactly how long the battery will last. I’m sure it’s buried in the specs somewhere but it’s not a number that is considered to be important.
they do . its not buried - the below quote is the 4th of about 18 sections on the first phone that came to mind on its main spec page -they seem to deem it more important than the camera specs.
I bought my current phone due to its 10000mAh battery.... they marketed that as the most important feature on the phone.
Battery and charging
Exactly, it’s the 4th not the first (and sometimes only) thing people talk about as it is with an EV. Also they don’t try to quote a lifetime, which was my point. Instead they say it should last at least a day and might last three days under certain circumstances.
Obviously battery capacity matters. It’s the relentless obsession with a meaningless number (predicted range in miles) that I can’t understand. Just say it has an xx Kwh battery which should be good for around yy days of normal usage, like that phone advert.
Saying this car has a range of 250 miles immediately makes people think “I might want to travel further than that sometimes”. Saying it has a big enough battery to last a week of normal driving paints a very different picture, even if it means the same thing in practice
I just can’t understand why EV manufacturers have allowed themselves to get sucked into a relentless focus on a largely meaningless number. For most of my driving life my car has just had a gauge that tells me roughly how full the tank is. It’s only recently that I’ve had petrol cars that try to convert that to a range and even then it’s usually buried in a menu. So it’s not as though EV manufacturers had to do this because it was what we were used to.
and that'll be down to how quick and convenient it is to return that gauge to full.. perhaps the inherent inconvenience of an away from home charge is why they think like that.
Over the last few years I've been in several situations where an EV has either run out of juice and needed to be recovered (it was the Scottish highlands to be fair!) or the driver has had to substantially alter their route/plans to not run out. Simple things like driving from Brighton to the 02 for a gig and having to scrape around dodgy parts of London at midnight afterwards to find power because the O2 chargers were offline etc etc. This is all because the cars in question had 'a range' that was not enough or the driver hadn't charged enough before leaving. Its not just a number at all - its a very real thing. With an EV you really do need to plan ahead - some people like doing that, some people don't. I fall in to the latter camp and so would only consider an EV that had much more range than I needed to cover every eventuality. My experience of the charging infrastructure and EVs in general is that when they work and everything is going smoothly then its the best kind of motoring but it doesn't take much to make what should have been a simple journey into a time consuming nightmare. I can't remember when I last had a problem with an ICE car but I certainly haven't broken down or run out of petrol, or had to alter my journey for a problem with the car for at least 20 years, probably longer.
This is all because the cars in question had 'a range' that was not enough or the driver hadn't charged enough before leaving.
Isn't that the same as just not filling your car up with petrol enough?
My take: the infrastructure is too expensive and messy to leave to the private sector.
This would have been a golden ticket for huge state intervention and a consistent approach.
Multiplier effect would have been huge.
(Obviously cars have to be cheaper still etc.)
Isn't that the same as just not filling your car up with petrol enough
How do you put more range in a battery that only takes X.
Where X is the capacity of your battery
I think you missed this, Trailrat:
This is all because the cars in question had 'a range' that was not enough or the driver hadn't charged enough before leaving.
Which part have I missed? Before the or statement or after?
"one in seven drivers (14 per cent) say they have run out of fuel in past 12 months alone"
For context that's from an article about people trying to keep as little fuel as possible in their car, but it shows that poor or over optimistic planning isn't solely an issue with ev drivers. When you consider the relative abundance of fuel stations it's remarkable how many people fail to have enough "range" for their journey. I'd still rather run out in an ICE though because I'd rather walk a mile carrying a jerry can than a battery.
Quote sauce https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2024/11092024.html
It's not walk a mile to a petrol station these days though is it. It's more like hitch 20 miles given the petrol station closure rate in rural areas. When the French charge infrastructure was really crap 8 years ago I used to keep the granny charger in the boot on the basis I could persuade a home owner/hotel/campsite/garage to let me plug in for a few notes. I'm happy to say that the charge infrastructure is now far denser than petrol stations.
How do you put more fuel in a car that only takes X?How do you put more range in a battery that only takes X.
Where X is the capacity of your battery
I had a jerry can in a Cooper S without twin tanks in the 80s living in Aberaeron because there were no petrol stations open at night once I left the motorway. In France in the 80s I had to divert to an autoroute on the way south for the same reason.
(The Eon rate was 7hrs a few weeks ago and you don't need a special charger BTW.)
Generally I don't get the debate about range etc - either an EV works for you or it doesn't.
Eventually they will make sense as they become the main option.
How do you put more fuel in a car that only takes X?
With comparitive ease .
I'd still rather run out in an ICE though because I'd rather walk a mile carrying a jerry can than a battery.
How many drivers carry a jerry can in their vehicles these days? I know I never did when I had ICE cars.
With comparitive ease.Just like an electric car then?
I'd rather walk a mile carrying a jerry can than a battery.Fair... TBH the last time i ran out of fuel i wasn't going to walk, it was 5 km from *anywhere* and 10 degrees below zero. (This is the only time i've run out of fuel, except once as i was driving across the forecourt in a mates car.)
How many drivers carry a jerry can in their vehicles these days?
I have done but only for track days and then only when there is not a super convenient petrol station. Means I can run the car till the tank is near empty, stick the fuel in, do a few more laps, then go home.
Anyway that's a bit of a digression. Got a test drive of an ID.7 tourer booked for Monday, can't wait. Had a sit in one at a dealer on Wednesday. First thoughts were that the passenger cabin is massive. The drivers seat was way back but when I sat behind it I had acres of room. In our current golf my knees touch the back of the seat. The boot looks small even though the capacity suggests otherwise. I think it's because it is narrower than the golf estate boot but longer and taller. I was pleasantly surprised to find a cubby hole under the adjustable floor. The example I looked at had the harman kardon audio upgrade so half that had what I think is the sub in it. Be interesting to see if the car we are considering has space there. The adjustable floor looks to have the space under it we normally use for shoes or flat stuff when going away (very glad about this as it makes it easy to pack neatly). The build quality felt nice, better than our mk7 golf (as you would hope since its a higher segment vehicle).
Just like an electric car then?
A jerry can of electrons ?
