I did not like one-pedal on the Leaf - I found it uncomfortable to have to leave my foot lightly on the pedal permanently. I find that with two-pedal the shifting between two pedals and lifting off etc made it a lot easier on my leg. The only time I did use it was in crawling traffic, it was useful then. Fortunately the Leaf had a big easy button to switch it on and off as the situation changed.
Picked up the GV60 from Guildford yesterday and drove back to Chester. Super comfortable drive and definitely a step up from the Polestar 2 I had in Spain last week, although the Polestar was a bit more involving to drive if you like that kind of thing. Massage seats which kick in after an hours driving are a nice touch as is the B&O noise cancelling sound system that reduces outside noise.
You can get the Tesla subscription for £90 per year which gives access to some supercharger sites, but not all.
You don't need a tesla subscription to access those supercharger sites, they're open to the public by default, the subscription just gets you cheaper rates.
Sorry, yes I missed the vital savings bit off - with the sub you get the cheaper Tesla rate rather than the greater non-Tesla rate.
Have you had any software issues with the P4? There's a good deal on at the moment but the Internet is full of tales of software bugs. Some annoying, some dangerous sounding.
There’s a few foibles, but nothing dangerous or anything that’s made me regret buying it. The Facebook groups have answers and/or arounds for most if not all issues.
The only significant issue I’ve had is losing all sound when I used CarPlay for the first time. Easily fixed by soft resetting the infotainment system.
There’s an upgrade due to land that fixes some minor annoyances as well.
Might be getting rid of the EV6 soon.
Wondering what's the smallest EV that will fit a large MTB in the boot with the front wheel off? (1250mm wheel base, 800mm bars)
The EV3 looks interesting, or do I need to go larger?
Think EV3 would be fine, especially if you put the boot floor to lower position - i get my medium road or gravel bike in with both wheels on and bars turned a bit.
Cheers for that. Good to hear
Yes, EV3 is sometimes referred to as a "baby EV9" but small it aint 😊
We had a young lad come off his bike (a traditional sit up and beg style road bike) outside our house and I managed to fit it in the back without removing any wheels (or even moving the front passenger seat) to take him back home.
My (size Large) Cotic FlareMax is probably pretty close to what you are talking about, so I can see if that fits if you like.
Double post
That would be very good of you, thank you
How many tens of thousands of pounds are you prepared to pay to not take the back wheel out of you bike, Onzadog ? 😛
Here is a rather muddy FlareMax in an EV3. Floor in lowest position as @ianc suggested and front seats set for (6 foot tall) me. Didn’t even need to lower the saddle 
Wow, that goes in a lot easier than it does in my EV6, thanks for that. Hope the car didn't get too dirty just for my benefit.
Edukator, it's not just bikes that need to go in the back. It's also the dog, or work tools. If a bike fits, I know they'll fit.
Here is a rather muddy FlareMax in an EV3
Good grief, put a tarp down!
thanks for that. Hope the car didn't get too dirty just for my benefit.
No problem and don't worry, between mountain biking, trail running and two collies that love to get muddy, it is rarely clean for long 😀
Good grief, put a tarp down!
It's just a box to carry me and my stuff around.
I was teasing as I hope you gathered, Onzadog. Load capacity, roof racks and towing are what's stopping us buying a second EV. Zoe does 90% of what we need a car for but our 2013 Dacia Lodgy hangs around because to pull a horse box, carry junior's junk, take a roof rack, we'd have to replace it with a car that is ****ing huge/politically incorrect/foreign. Even the Scenic will only pull 1100kg which isn't enough for even the smallest horse box (1200kg ptac required, the Scenic is 1100).
There’s a few foibles, but nothing dangerous or anything that’s made me regret buying it. The Facebook groups have answers and/or arounds for most if not all issues.
The only significant issue I’ve had is losing all sound when I used CarPlay for the first time. Easily fixed by soft resetting the infotainment system.
There’s an upgrade due to land that fixes some minor annoyances as well.
Good to hear, got a quote for £440 a month, 3 + 33. Dual motor, prime pack. It's quite a bit more than the Enyaq that I was looking at but also a bit of a steal at that price.
What's up with the magnesium colour? I'm guessing it's probably too white compared to the cool grey the promo images look like.
It's just a box to carry me and my stuff around.
It's an expensive box, and one day you'll get rid of it and someone else will pay a lot of money for it. Things are worth looking after as a matter of principle, especially expensive things that get passed onto someone else.
What's up with the magnesium colour? I'm guessing it's probably too white compared to the cool grey the promo images look like.
Spot on.
I did briefly consider the enyaq, but I couldn’t get over the fact (completely unfairly) that they appear to me to be the modern equivalent of the Vauxhall Zafira - ie driven by folk that have given up on life.
You should consider an Ioniq 5 though - great cars.
The price you were quoted is good depending on included mileage.
8k miles pa
I did briefly consider the enyaq, but I couldn’t get over the fact (completely unfairly) that they appear to me to be the modern equivalent of the Vauxhall Zafira - ie driven by folk that have given up on life.
I'll be coming from a Skoda Superb, does that mean that I've rediscovered life? 🤣
Wondering what's the smallest EV that will fit a large MTB in the boot with the front wheel off? (1250mm wheel base, 800mm bars)
My id3 easily does that. Looks about the same size rear space as the EV3 up there ^
Guess this'll fit here!
Took the P2 to Silverstone yesterday - slightly damp weather worked in my favour when on track with BMWs and GT3RSs!!
Here's a vid of me leaving the pit lane (cold tyres) then immediately trying to keep up with a Manthey GT3RS!!! THink i did the EV crowd proud eh!
DrP
Guess this'll fit here!
Took the P2 to Silverstone yesterday - slightly damp weather worked in my favour when on track with BMWs and GT3RSs!!
Here's a vid of me leaving the pit lane (cold tyres) then immediately trying to keep up with a Manthey GT3RS!!! THink i did the EV crowd proud eh!
DrP
Haha cool, nice job. What was your top speed down the hangar straight?
i reached 125mph.... the 'chicken foot' kicked in and I had to hit the brake before flying off the corner!
DrP
i reached 125mph.... the 'chicken foot' kicked in and I had to hit the brake before flying off the corner!
DrP
What was your average miles per kwh for the time spend on track?
And did you notice if the car started to reduce power at any points?
What was your average miles per kwh for the time spend on track? 1.3kWh per mile 🤣
And did you notice if the car started to reduce power at any points? Yup - after about 4 laps it would start getting hot, and begin to throttle the top end of power. I think this is because I'm getting more confident, so spent a LOT more time on full throttle at Silverstone (It was the GP circuit, so has 3 decent straights) than I did at Brands Hatch, or even the Nurbugrin (though when I go back to the 'ring, i think i'll be more confident and full throttle it more there too...)
DrP
Well my 2 month old Kia EV6 is back at the dealership, with a flat battery - the irony. 12V battery was down at 10.7V and the car went into limp mode. Apparently a common issue with the module that charges the 12V battery failing on EV6s, although not usually this early in life.
Well my 2 month old Kia EV6 is back at the dealership, with a flat battery - the irony. 12V battery was down at 10.7V and the car went into limp mode. Apparently a common issue with the module that charges the 12V battery failing on EV6s, although not usually this early in life.
The Cupra Born we've just got has the same issue. It still drives no problem but a warning on the screen pops up telling me to take it to the workshop.
Apparently because it's an ex demonstrator car and it's not been driven far it can go flat if not used for a while.
It'll only do 205kph, some of the single motor versions are 170kph i think.i reached 125mph....
127mph...
I've had dead 12v battery issues on our Zoe and then the Kona. On the Kona it's supposed to happen when it's not locked properly, whatever that means, and the car is continually hunting for the key inside the car which eventually flattens the battery.
The Zoe just used to be not very good at charging the 12v battery.
The 12v error on the zoe is something like - catastrophic electrical system fault. Not what you want to hear, especially as it is unrelated to the traction battery.
It'll only do 205kph, some of the single motor versions are 170kph i think.
127mph...
Ah - i thought 140mph was its top speed! So 125mph isn't too bad!
Pretty sure I hit the limiter on teh Autobahn on the way to the ring - but that was boring as it was just a dull straight road, so pretty soon just backed down to 130kph.
DrP
Thanks for the reminder to check the voltage of the service battery on my Zoe now it's getting cold, oldtennisshoes. Renault say to change every three years but I change at less than 12.4 volts when everything is switched off. The first one I took out has done another three years in an ICE. The post 2019 Zoes seem to hold charge better.
Thoughts on the 3p per mile "fuel duty equivalent" for EVs widely reported as coming in from 2028?
It will approximately triple my per mile costs as a home low overnight tariff EV charger which is a bit sad. But......I can see that something is needed. This tax model doesn't reward efficient energy use (by driving efficiently or buying an efficient vehicle) like the petrol/diesel fuel does which feels like a missed opportunity.
This tax model doesn't reward efficient energy use
Sadly it still encourages buying stinking greenhousing ICEs. We need to tax the ICEs off the road not the EVs. When three quarters of the population are still buying ICEs the tax system needs changing to stop that.
Thoughts on the 3p per mile "fuel duty equivalent" for EVs widely reported as coming in from 2028?
It will approximately triple my per mile costs as a home low overnight tariff EV charger which is a bit sad.
It's still much cheaper than diesel though.
Sadly it still encourages buying stinking greenhousing ICEs.
Does it? Is it still not far cheaper to drive EV if you are home charging?
Sadly it still encourages buying stinking greenhousing ICEs.
No one will be making ICE vehicles in a few years time (apart from commercial vehicles).
It's still much cheaper than diesel though.
Only if you always charge at home.
Be interesting to see how a per mile tax would be applied!
P4 LRDM ordered, delivery due early December. I never thought I'd own (lease) a car that could do 0-60 faster than the Ferrari F40 that was the supercar in my youth!
Be interesting to see how a per mile tax would be applied!
Yes, might be a challenge. I guess once a car gets to 3yrs old it would have a. mot and the milage gets recorded then. In the radio they were saying that you'd be asked to estimate and pay for your next 12 months milage and either pay a supplement or get a refund my how much you were out. I guess you could make self reported milage submissions for the first 3 years and at the first mot the car could have a debt charged to it if those self reports had been erroneous.
In the French reports I've read comparing the cost on running ICEs and EVs the advantage of EVs is the low cost per mile in use which compensates for the higher dpreciation if bought new or higher lease cost. Remove the low cost per mile and ICEs would be cheaper again.
You couldn't check against MOT mileage as those miles might not be in the UK. Allowing non UK miles to be removed would leave a loop hole you bet people would exploit. I suppose the other way would be to make you pay for non UK miles as well.
You couldn't check against MOT mileage as those miles might not be in the UK.
True - didn't think of that. For some outlier EV users that could make a hell of a difference. For most - not so much. You can buy a tank of fuel in Portsmouth and use it in Northern Spain and vice versa already. And I pay fuel duty on my lawnmower's and boat outboard fuel. Nothing will be perfect.
Can't see a better way without some significant infrastructure/hardware etc changes.
Surely this is an issue that many countries will face - revenue from fuel tax will be lost and so that will need to be found somewhere (unless you subscribe to certain economic theories). How are they doing this in places where EV adoption is ahead of the UK?
You couldn't check against MOT mileage as those miles might not be in the UK. Allowing non UK miles to be removed would leave a loop hole you bet people would exploit. I suppose the other way would be to make you pay for non UK miles as well.
Couldn't is too strong a word here. If I was the Product Manager on this, I'd be using the annual or 6 monthly taxing process and making mileage declaration mandatory along with payment for any tax due. If you take it abroad, you'd need to self certify the non UK mileage.
In the grand scheme of tax collection this would be pretty simple.
Surely this is an issue that many countries will face - revenue from fuel tax will be lost and so that will need to be found somewhere (unless you subscribe to certain economic theories). How are they doing this in places where EV adoption is ahead of the UK?
Yeah one way or another it was always going to happen.
Shame they didn't make the possibility for reporting the VIN of the car and the number of KWH a requirement of the smart charger spec (or maybe it is? I don't know).
One nice thing about charging per KWH is that it automatically charges more per mile for inefficient cars.
Of course 3 pin changers would be a loop hole, but it's a start.
Other than that I suppose the easiest way is with ANPR but as I pointed out on the gov thread, it could just drive traffic off the main roads onto rat-runs.
I understand the need to tax electric cars somehow.
However, what I do not understand is *how* mileage will be taxed.
Will this ignore it for 3 years then a bill attached to your MOT?
What about a black box tracker for all cars? We know how well acquainted IT problems and UK Govt are, let along mission creep when they realise the same black box can track your speeding or parking on double yellows outside the kebab shop...
What about self-declaration?
(etc)
You couldn't check against MOT mileage as those miles might not be in the UK. Allowing non UK miles to be removed would leave a loop hole you bet people would exploit. I suppose the other way would be to make you pay for non UK miles as well.
Some of my car mileage every year is driven on a circuit. You aint taxing me on that.
There are so many holes in this scheme...
Yes couldn't is too strong a word and non-UK miles will probably be a varnishy small amount of the total anyway. I'd go down the line of making it a tough shit your paying anyway rule. I bet in reality the amount it effected anyone individual would be tiny.
If you take it abroad, you'd need to self certify the non UK mileage.
Welcome big loop hole. Self certifying is just asking for abuse.
I am a recent EV driver and have been a bit shocked by the price of charging on motorways and at other public chargers. This will be a relatively rare thing for me as I do less than half a dozen long trips a year but for those that have to use them it seems pretty crazy. How can it cost more to do say 100 miles with public electric than diesel or petrol considering as how a massive chunk of the latter is tax?
Re the per mile tax will it just be a flat fee? Not sure a Citroen Ami should be paying the same rate as an Audi Q8
There are so many holes in this scheme
There isn't a scheme yet in which to have holes, is there?. The concept is just being discussed.
Welcome big loop hole. Self certifying is just asking for abuse.
Only if you always charge at home.
To charge at home you need to own it, have a driveway, and the money to pay for a charger. Which leaves the majority on the public network, which is already considerably more expensive than petrol or diesel. I'm not sure why French public charging is so much cheaper.
It doesn't help that the VAT on public network charging is a 20% and currently the VAT electricity on domestic electricity is 5%.
Some of my car mileage every year is driven on a circuit. You aint taxing me on that.
If it was an ICE, you'd be paying fuel duty(tax) on the petrol consumed on the track....
You couldn't check against MOT mileage as those miles might not be in the UK.
Couldn't this happen with fuel duty anyway? Fill up, get the Ferry... do miles in Europe with fuel you've paid duty on in UK. And of course the other way around.
Not sure a Citroen Ami should be paying the same rate as an Audi Q8
I suppose "keeping it simple" is going to be such a challenge, that flat rate for milage paired with a fixed yearly fee based on vehicle weight might be the compromise. The Ami could be zero rated for the later. Or both. Vehicles with such short range and such minimal road damage could be exempt. We need changes in UK law to fully make use of these super light electric vehicles anyway... they shouldn't be treated the same as a "car" in my opinion. They aren't elsewhere.
Re the per mile tax will it just be a flat fee? Not sure a Citroen Ami should be paying the same rate as an Audi Q8
Seems that is the proposal.
Of course a flat mileage rate also costs any rural dwellers more to simply do the weekly shop or hospital appointment etc.
New Zealand do it on a mileage basis, you buy RUC upfront as multiple blocks of 1000km and get a sticker showing what odometer reading you're paid up to. Used to be for diesel cars (no red diesel for off-road use) but they extended it to EVs and a lower rate for PHEVs. Sub 1000kg EVs don't pay it though, so an Ami or Microlino wouldn't pay.
There's roadside checks, and when the car gets the equivalent of an MOT. Of course, mileage blockers and easy odo correction make defrauding the system pretty easy for those who want to.
Implementation issues aside, I do think some sort of per mile taxation makes sense, people doing 30k miles a year should pay more than those doing 5k. So much of the running cost of a car is annual bills that don't discourage you from using it for everything. I'd rather a universal per mile system though, with (as in NZ) heavier stuff paying more, and if you choose a petrol or diesel you just pay more in running costs at the pumps.
I'm not sure why French public charging is so much cheaper.
France is mostly nuclear powered, with a good chunk of hydro and a growing bit of solar and wind. Small but shrinking gas part to top that up. So they have cheap base load and if it's particularly sunny or windy, plenty of spare power to get rid of. They also have a regulated tariff set by the state as EDF is state-owned.
Of course a flat mileage rate also costs any rural dwellers more to simply do the weekly shop or hospital appointment
Isn't the same true of fuel duty? Rural folk tend to need to travel further for such amenities so will use more fuel, and thus pay more fuel duty than their suburban counterpart.
Couldn't this happen with fuel duty anyway? Fill up, get the Ferry... do miles in Europe with fuel you've paid duty on in UK. And of course the other way around.
Yes but only at most 1 tank's worth of fuel duty. This proposal would count all mileage done out of the country.
My Mrs has family in France so we do quite a few miles in Europe.
Also it applies in reverse - this proposal would mean that foreign cars pay no duty for the energy the use to charge their car while in the UK.
So how will this work with PHEVs?
From the BBC article on this....
According to the Telegraph, EV drivers could be charged 3p per mile, on top of other road taxes, amounting to an extra £12 on a journey from London to Edinburgh. Drivers of hybrid cars would also be charged, but at a lower rate.
TWINGO IS GO !
I'm back thinking my old smoker Volvo 5cyl diesel is a better bet for the future now.
This year 3p, next year £3?
If/when it comes in, be prepared for fuel duty to also increase to maintain a differential tax benefit for those dropping diesel/petrol.
France is mostly nuclear powered, with a good chunk of hydro and a growing bit of solar and wind. Small but shrinking gas part to top that up. So they have cheap base load and if it's particularly sunny or windy, plenty of spare power to get rid of. They also have a regulated tariff set by the state as EDF is state-owned.
I'm not sure supply cost is the driver though: French tariffs aren't much cheaper than the UK and certainly don't account for the 30p or so difference in rapid charging costs. I feel there must be a different regulatory framework as you suggest.
My 5000 miles a year will cost me £150. I'm hoping this will be offset by cheaper fast DC charging when the new offshore and onshore wind comes online in the future 🤔.
My local pub might take the £150 hit as I try to balance my car expenditure against my luxury pub pints 🍺🤔😭🍺
This year 3p, next year £3?
Eh? Why would you think it'll go up? Anything could go up. What if there's a £200/l tax on diesel mmm? Makes you think...
They also have a regulated tariff set by the state as EDF is state-owned.
Only for members of the public up to 36kVA. Companies negotiate with suppliers of which EDF is one of many like anywhere else in Europe. As the capacity of the European grid increases and sellers become more international prices around Europe are equalling out. In France that has meant some big increases.
I think the reason that charging in the UK is so expensive is simply profiteering due to a lack of real competition. The arrival of Tesla has resulted in Total Energy reducing their prices at the same sites in France, and both know they are competing with cheaper public charge networks, supermarkets etc..
The number of SM posts I see saying people will go back to petrol if there's a mileage tax is insane. You liked paying 2p a mile, but 5p is too much. So your solution is to pay 15p? What?