[Closed] SNP. You LOST, get over it

Hence, better together as the majority recognised!!

political games, the oil price will go back up when the handbags with the russians has stopped.

Oil only makes up 15% of Scotlands exports - a considerably smaller proportion than for Norway.

They seem to handle oil price fluctuations fine, but that's because they had the brains to set up an oil fund to balance the income from it.

And remember what needs to happen before you set up an oil fund Ben?

Wonder why we haven't had one in Bonny Scotland - well you don't have to wonder very hard.

Yes, we need to have smart politicians who think about more than the non-executive directorships and speaking engagements they'll get after they leave office.

Wouldn't it be nice to have leaders like that?

jambalaya - Member

@seosam and @northwind - yes perhaps but in the meantime you are bust...

What? Like the United Kingdom?

Living on debt = bust in my eyes.

konabunny - Member

well, great, but in the meantime you still have to deal with less tax revenue

So it becomes just a case of which sets of figures was correct

Though just to state the obvious, the current slump would have been on the UK's watch 😉 Lots of people getting excited about it but who knows what the price would be by exit day, I'm seeing lots of people forcasting this to be a short term drop (though I think smart people are saying, we don't know)

jambalaya - Member

@seosam and @northwind - yes perhaps but in the meantime you are bust, game over. By the time the oil price recovers someone else is in charge (Scotland absorbed back into the UK ?) and all your assets (inc the oil reserves) have been sold off cheap to someone else.

It's a country, not a corner shop

Not quite Ben, but appreciate that yS didn't do the grown-up thinking on what was otherwise a good idea. Nothing new there though.....why because like everything else it was going to be magicked out of nowhere.

So what is bust then? 1.4 trillion? 😆
I think its pretty clear that debt ddoesn't really matter anymore...since no-one seems to be interested in paying it off...

Yes it's amazing how much austerity george has cut spending by isn't it?

Austerity isn't about paying off anything its about redistrubiting upwards and the storing of wealth. Calling it austerity or even capitalism is ridiculous. We live under a hoardist society. In fact I'm going to coin the phrase hoardism for the system we live under! 😆

Have a wee word with your MSPs then - AS described austerity policies in his last FMQs and dear Nicola did the same this week. I wish they would get their terms right, it gets so confusing....

If they are hoarding how come we have so much debt?

They're not my msps. I'm not a fan of the current building up of the SNP into a Goliath. I don't particularly see them as greatly different.

There's debt because private and corporate bank accounts don't belong to the government. And they seem to be having a wee bit of bother getting the hoardists to pay the proper amount of taxes. Amongst other things.

"Though just to state the obvious, the current slump would have been on the UK's watch "

whooooooooshhh! you haven't understood the point at all (are you speaking from the SNP front bench?). Scotland is much more exposed to that risk than the UK as a whole because a far greater proportion of Scottish business and tax revenue is/would derive from selling oil and gas.

konabunny - Member
...Scotland is much more exposed to that risk than the UK as a whole because a far greater proportion of Scottish business and tax revenue is/would derive from selling oil and gas.

So? Is that a reason not to be independent?

The simple way to help contain costs is to not wage wars you can't afford.

The UK isn't in a position to be held up as an example of financial management to anyone.

konabunny - Member

whooooooooshhh! you haven't understood the point at all

Nope, actually the point a lot of commentators making is exactly this- "LOL oil has gone down in price, Scotland wouldn't have any money". Bizarre to see lots of UK people delighted that the UK economy's taken a hit, too.

So? Is that a reason not to be independent?

Well I imagine in the next few months we'll find out. I've a feeling the answer is an emphatic yes and the SNP have dodged a bullet. The Saudis/OPEC seem to be manipulating the oil price to suit there own needs effectively creating recessions in many other OPEC nations. Granted Scotland is not fully reliant on oil, but hey, it's surely better to be exposed to such fluctuations as a wider economy

So? Is that a reason not to be independent?

Talking purely about the economics of oil. Surely a slump in oil price is a double edged sword? For one when the price is down its never completely passed on to the consumer and secondly consider everything in our economy is based on oil for something, surely a low oil price should give the rest of the economy a boost?

I think youse are over simplifying things.

I am just pointing out the obvious, about how much trouble an independent Scotland would be in, so much of the "bonus" promised by the Yes campaign would have been delivered by oil revenues which far from increasing would have collapsed. Of course this is bad for the UK as a whole but it would have been far more severe for a country of 5m so heavily dependent upon these revenues. I appreciate my going bust / sell off the assets comment was simplistic and corner shop like, we can dress it up in fancy language but an iS could really have afforded to just hang on and wait for higher prices in the distant future as that future may well be very distant, there are bills to be paid today.

@epic, every country has a national debt. You are right in that we should be aiming for a neutral budget over an economic cycle but we are far far from that, Osbourne tried to deliver that and has failed, an alternative government with more aggressive spending plans would have plunged us much deeper into debt, as is happening in France. A far worse situation than the one we face. £1.4 trillion is indeed a large debt, we should be aiming to reduce it which is what this government is trying to do.

@seoas - yes a lower oil price provides an economic boost particularly to those countries which are net importers.

surely a low oil price should give the rest of the economy a boost?

@ Konabunny- see what I mean?

jambalaya - Member

I am just pointing out the obvious, about how much trouble an independent Scotland would be in, so much of the "bonus" promised by the Yes campaign would have been delivered by oil revenues which far from increasing would have collapsed

The simple facts about oil revenues are lost on most of the pro independents, because they just are not interested in the facts....they have become so entrenched in their anti UK stance, some would rather face hardship than admit they may be wrong about it all.

Fair enough I say, but they are gambling dangerously with their children's and grand childrens futures...which is not fair or right.

@Rockape has it. It also would have impacted the rest of us in the broader UK as we'd be faced with meeting the same costs for defense etc with 10% less people/tax base.

@Northwind - you are "selective quoting" there, look at the next sentence too. Many of always said independence would be financially bad for UK and worse for Scotland, oil prices at these levels would have made he situation for an iS much worse. Lower oil prices really impact investment, that would dry up totally and with the Scottish economy very dependent on that investment spending it would have been very exposed.

No, I'm not selectively quoting at all, the next line makes no difference to my point. Which is that this:

"I am just pointing out the obvious, about how much trouble an independent Scotland would be in, so much of the "bonus" promised by the Yes campaign would have been delivered by oil revenues which far from increasing would have collapsed."

Is entirely based on the false "obvious" idea that the current price drop would have affected an independent Scotland, when in fact we'd obviously still have been in the UK at this point.

Yes prices go down as well as up. What you have right now is the down, there'll almost certainly be a longer term up, long term speculation on short term trends makes no sense. People just want to spin the current down as if it would have been an issue in the event of a Yes vote, which it would not (yet?)

If in 5 or 10 years time the price is still this low, they'll have a point. Bet you 10 scottish pence it's not though.

Fair enough I say, but they are gambling dangerously with their children's and grand childrens futures...which is not fair or right.

Everything's a gamble. Having a government that thinks spending £15bn on building more roads is a good idea is a big gamble with my child's future. Having a government that's going to pull us out of Europe is a big gamble with her future too.

There's no risk-free life. Everything's a balance of risks and probabilities. We believe that it'd be better for our children to have Scottish independence.

I think Osbourne has put one over on the Scots - Northern Ireland is to get control of corporation tax (makes sense with Irish rates so low just south of the border) - this is explicitly a tax Scotland will not get control of.

Also the North of England is to get a regional wealth fund from shale revenues, that will rile the SNP I am sure, tremendous 8)

Northwind got it, indeed I was looking further forward. Will the price be this low in 5 years or 10, it might as the shale production will be in full swing. The point is we don't know and an iS should be very exposed as oil revenues are such a large part of the economy

In the long term, leaving it in the ground is almost certainly going to increase the value, it won't go off

If the well is drilled then oil won't go off per se, but if you just leave it you could end up with it not being recoverable for a number of reasons. Plus once the offshore infrastructure is in place there is no logical argument for leaving it, as you have paid all the costs up front for no return. Plus you would still need to continue paying maintenance costs so it was fit for purpose, for the day you wanted to start back up.

jambalaya - Member
I think Osbourne has put one over on the Scots - Northern Ireland is to get control of corporation tax (makes sense with Irish rates so low just south of the border) - this is explicitly a tax Scotland will not get control of.

Also the North of England is to get a regional wealth fund from shale revenues, that will rile the SNP I am sure, tremendous

dragon - Member

If the well is drilled then oil won't go off per se, but if you just leave it you could end up with it not being recoverable for a number of reasons.

Yup- especially towards end of life where you might cut back on the secondary/tertiary extraction which gets more and more marginal- not always viable to cap then reopen an end-stage field. But in the majority of cases fields can be mothballed, and closed fields can be restarted (as in the case of Alma, or Argyll- closed as uneconomic to extract, reopened decades later.

Also the North of England is to get a regional wealth fund from shale revenues, that will rile the SNP I am sure, tremendous

The good news about the oil price dropping is that fracking looks less viable.

There's always a silver lining... 🙂

Is entirely based on the false "obvious" idea that the current price drop would have affected an independent Scotland, when in fact we'd obviously still have been in the UK at this point.

No, seriously, look around- the UK government rushed to release figures making predictions based on today's price remaining static for the next 5 years and "proving" that it'd cost Scotland billions.

The Scottish Secretary says:

“Only ten weeks on from the referendum choice of the Scottish people it is already clear that we would be facing up to a very different and much more difficult future if Scotland had opted for separation. Falling oil prices combined with the Scottish Government’s wildly optimistic production figures would have blown a massive hole in the middle of the finances of an independent Scotland.”

The Telegraph:

"Scotland’s NHS would have been facing a “black hole” the size of its entire resource budget instead of an extra £125 million if voters had backed independence, Alistair Carmichael has said ahead of the Autumn Statement. "

None of these are making theoretical cases- they're all saying "[i]This[/i] fall would have had[i] this[/i] effect on a newly independent Scotland." Mind you, all the predictions are made by people whose previous predictions totally failed to predict today's oil prices 😉

Yessers ability to spin never ends.

Forget the Swinney leak in 2013, the fact that many observers were highlighting consistently that the DOs assumptions on oil were BS and hence the accompanying pipe dreams were nonsense and of course when the independent OBR pointed this out, guess what, the DO dismissed them as " stuff and nonsense"

So Nicola, time for some truth finally, who was it that was really "betrayed"?

Ah, so pointing out other people's spin is spin now?

I have to admire your chutzpah though- to point at the OBR as authorities when of course their projections have been blown out of the water by the price fall. But of course lets take their rush job brand new projections as gospel. Bold...

The simple truth is, we don't know what the impact on the long term price will be. Some big players are forecasting a fast return to growth, most are forecasting higher than the OBR. Excitably denouncing the Scottish government's forecasts for 2016 and onwards as having been proven wrong is just plain daft. That's not spin, it's just being able to tell the difference between today and the future.

(Ironically, the UK government and the OBR's forecasts [i]have[/i] been proven false in the short term 😆 But over the same timescales, they might yet be right. Well, not the OBR's, having 2 contradictory forecasts means they're guaranteed to be proved wrong 😉 )

A bit of instability now is a good reminder to the future govt of Scotland not to be dependent on oil based revenues.

No doubt this will be borne in mind when we declare independence next year once we have a majority of pro independence MPs in Scotland.

No simply pointing out the inaccuracies in your argument.

But what's new, we went through a referendum exercise that was largely held up as an excellent example of democracy at work and yet strip the basics aside (high engagement, turnout etc) and all you had was an example of how contemptuous yS was of the people they represent. Pretty much every pillar (sic) of their argument - oil being an obvious case - crumbled under basic scrutiny and yet there were prepared to insult the intelligence of their countrymen and woman by persisting with deceit and lies on an epic scale. Whenever the vulnerability to and predictions of a falling/volatile oils price were pointed out, the DO and others hid behind the 3B smokescreen that they relied upon unsuccessfully throughout. A blatant political/ego-driven sham. The extraordinary thing is just how many fell for it.

And they are still at it with a blatant disrespect of the outcome of the vote. And people wonder where the stereotypes come from?

And people wonder where the stereotypes come from?

teamhurtmore - Member
...Whenever the vulnerability to and predictions of a falling/volatile oils price were pointed out, the DO and others hid behind the 3B smokescreen that they relied upon unsuccessfully throughout. A blatant political/ego-driven sham. The extraordinary thing is just how many fell for it...

Dinna fret laddy. We'll be gone soon. Our numbers are growing daily.

Meanwhile, do these circumstances not also apply to the misUnited Kingdom? I don't see any magic wands.

Meanwhile, do these circumstances not also apply to the misUnited Kingdom?

(misUnited Kingdom! that's very witty)

when we declare independence next year once we have a majority of pro independence MPs in Scotland.

bearGrease - Member
"when we declare independence next year once we have a majority of pro independence MPs in Scotland."

That worked so well for Ian Smith that it can't fail to be an absolutely brilliant idea for Scotland too! Brilliant thinking, you should be promoted to the SNP front bench with talent like that.

Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately I'm not an SNP supporter, so I think they be a wee bit reluctant to have me. 🙂

Rhodesia's legal basis was English law.

Scotland is subject to Scots law. In Scotland the people are sovereign, not the parliament as in England, so we do have the right.

In Scotland the people are sovereign, not the parliament as in England, so we do have the right.

We'll be gone soon. Our numbers are growing daily.

Big queues at Glasgow Airport, then?

Sadly, you're going to have to pay for your own tickets, though. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, will you?

Unfortunately I'm not an SNP supporter, so I think they be a wee bit reluctant to have me.

Salmond as Deputy PM?

Hope he gets stuck into the Westminster bastards!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30364575

bearGrease - Member
"In Scotland the people are sovereign, not the parliament as in England, so we do have the right."

Yes and it appears to have slipped your mind that very recently those people voted to remain in the union.

Indeed, and now they see they were fed a pack of lies about "more powers', they are regretting it. And bitter about it too.

The future is bright for independence.

It really is quite a clever strategy.

Behave more and more like a sulky stroppy teenager, until everyone else actually wants you to leave home.

It is a shame because the majority did vote to stay, and I love the place, but I'm really really beginning to wish they had voted yes, so we could be done with this.

For years the behavior of northern Ireland politicians achieved the same for many of us I suspect, the unionists were just embarrassing belligerent bigots, and deserved to be cut loose. But now things seem better.

If there's one thing the Yes movement isn't doing, it's sulking. We're getting stuck in, joining political parties like never before, launching new media outlets and campaign groups. Whereas the No side are behaving like they lost, leaders resigning left and right, whining about how we won't lie down, and only managing the tired "vote SNP to get Tories" line.

It was the biggest political angagement of a generation at least, 1.6M people voted for change (and a substantial number of No voters wanted change too), that won't go away.

Stoatsbrother - Member
It really is quite a clever strategy.
Behave more and more like a sulky stroppy teenager, until everyone else actually wants you to leave home.

No, it's more a desire to get away from being in a country where unelected representatives are profiting out of dismembering our national infrastructure.

This sort of thing (scroll down) - [url= http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/compilation-of-parliamentary-financial.html ]see the pigs at the trough[/url]

[b]epicyclo[/b] that's fine. You are entitled to your views, and many of us could argue that the interference of Scots Politicians in English issues has been a problem too, but the rest of your Nation were simply not convinced enough to agree with the proposal. It was indeed a triumph of democracy, a joy to see such a turnout, and some time after it spent in quiet reflection by both sides might be good.

Just heard Miss Boyack on radio Scotland a minute ago, claiming there is a discord between the population and politics. Another example of how far out of touch Scottish labour are.

Then Jim the liar Murphy claiming you can't vote SNP as it means David Cameron will get back in power. Jesus wept.

bencooper - Member
It was the biggest political angagement of a generation at least, 1.6M people voted for change...

And remind us how many voted for the actual result? Democracy hey, it's a bummer....!!!

Perhaps a little introspection might be in order. The best opportunity to achieve your goals missed because (if polls are to be believed) the yS leaders were unable/unwilling to answer basic, fundamental questions. Why, because they knew what the real answer was but preferred to hoodwink those they pretend to represent. And yet, despite this and consistent with the whining stereotype, the blame is shifted elsewhere. Incredible despite being expected and true to form.

bencooper - Member
If there's one thing the Government movement isn't doing, it's behaving like it lost. New powers are being devolved on time and in a coordinate fashion (yes it's not just about you!). We're getting stuck in and executing, whereas the YS side are unable to accept they lost, leaders resign, whining about how we won't lie down etc and only managing the tired "it's the fault of Westminster Tories" line.

At some point, yessers may STFU and take responsibility. Look at why you lost, there was a massive thread devoted to the subject. It's very simple to see.

The irony of the DO coming to swim with the big boys is not lost - it really IS all about HIM. Let's hope, however, that he has learned a thing or too from his track record of own goals, for all our sakes.

and only managing the tired "vote SNP to get Tories" line.

Protecting the interests of multimillionaire homophobes over the public interest in administration of public transport? Sounds a lot like Tartan Tories to me.

...they will be introducing private sector solutions in the NHS next 😉

I'm not a big fan of some SNP policies - they're too close to big business - but to claim they're like the Tories is ridiculous. They're far more left wing than Labour at the moment. And this is the problem - all Labour in Scotland have to offer is "we're not Tories" while at the same time Labour south of the border are cosying up to white van man.

No-one's really going to win the next general election - the Tories will probably get more votes by turning themselves into UKIP, but it'll be a pox on all their houses. What'll be interesting is how the Scottish vote goes in the GE.

Protecting the interests of multimillionaire homophobes over the public interest in administration of public transport? Sounds a lot like Tartan Tories to me.

+1

not been following this thread so it may have been covered but the Scottish government have suddenly quietly stopped funding marine renewables development in Scotland, with almost immediate devastating results and more to come.

http://renews.biz/79732/wave-and-tidal-staring-into-abyss/
http://renews.biz/80273/aquamarine-to-shrink-business/
http://renews.biz/79962/jobs-massacre-at-pelamis/

Certainly looks like Salmond's marine renewable energy dream is coming to an end at the moment anyway, which is a terrible shame. I doubt the timing of this decision and the new cabinet being sworn in is a coincidence. The government can still rescue what is left before everyone goes, if they have any competence...

Thm still true to form I see. What is clear is that more people voted no than yes. Did those no voters vote for what was offered in the vow according to the Daily Record? Did they vote for The Smith Commission proposals? Did they vote for whatever version of devolution might eventually make its way onto the statute book?

Only you could cite a democratic vote and then claim that 45% of those who voted should STFU rather than be involved in discussing important issues like The Smith Commission etc

Remember the thread title. More voted against. 45/55 is a pretty clear win in political terms for better together.

The "vow" looks to me like it's being implemented in full, but the truth was never going to get int he way of some top,quality SNP bull

I imagine the prospect of two salaries for two jobs at the same time is hard to resist. I think that needs to be looked at, you shouldn't be able to hold two representative offices at the same time. Should apply to everyone btw

I agree with your last point jambalaya. In his defence though Alex Salmon has said if he is elected he will donate one salary to charity as he did before when he was elected to the Scottish Parliament

@gordi - I thought he said he'd donate his first minister pension to his own charity whilst he remained an MSP. There aren't too many jobs where your allowed to two at the same time. Too many Westminster MPs esp Tories do this. Being an MP is and should be a full time job. My contract says I can't even do other paid work in evenings or at weekends.

Comment from current Lib Dem MP in the seat of Gordon. I didn't realise independence was rejected 2:1 in AS's own Scottish Parliament constituency.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30368620 ]bbc link[/url]

THM can I ask why it upsets you so much that a large proportion of the Scottish people want independence for their country? You seem to be taking it very personally. Are there any other political views that you deem worthy of SingTFU? Perhaps if you just tell us what we are and aren't allowed to think, campaign and vote for things would be a lot easier.

That first question is genuine by the way, I'd love a straight answer rather than some childish rant about Alex Salmond, but I'll not hold my breath.

Love it how the 'no brigade' think Scotland would have sunk without trace if a majority yes had went through.

Why the 'silence' over how well the sunken island of Iceland is doing?

unknown - Member
THM can I ask why it upsets you so much that a large proportion of the Scottish people want independence for their country? You seem to be taking it very personally. Are there any other political views that you deem worthy of SingTFU? Perhaps if you just tell us what we are and aren't allowed to think, campaign and vote for things would be a lot easier.

That first question is genuine by the way, I'd love a straight answer rather than some childish rant about Alex Salmond, but I'll not hold my breath.

This question should apply to more than just THM ON HERE. I certainly won't he holding my breath either.

Unknown, as I made clear before, I am pro devolved power and generally anti-Centralised and large government. I am also a Scotophile.

What I am against is BS and in particular the economic and political BS spouted by AS and his cronies over many years (I was exposed to it throughout my education in Scotland and since). There is nothing childish in exposing his constant deceit and lies - the childish bit is swallowing it without question. But that is yS's look-out and we see the same thing with UKIP. Sad reflection of modern politics. Lies/spin over facts. The DO took this to a unique level and lost as a result. Karma!

If yS had made an even half decent attempt at addressing the key foundations of independence I could have been persuaded but I genuinely believe that all parties are better served by being part of a Union. Fortunately, the majority of Scots agreed with me. Canny folk!

gordimhor - Member
Thm still true to form I see.

Indeed unlike the DO good to be consistent rather than flapping in the prevailing wind.

What is clear is that more people voted no than yes.

Indeed.

Did those no voters vote for what was offered in the vow according to the Daily Record? Did they vote for The Smith Commission proposals? Did they vote for whatever version of devolution might eventually make its way onto the statute book?

No the question was very simple and clear as was the commitment to respect the result, well on one side at least. 😉

bencooper - Member

I'm not a big fan of some SNP policies - they're too close to big business - but to claim they're like the Tories is ridiculous. They're far more left wing than Labour at the moment. And this is the problem - all Labour in Scotland have to offer is "we're not Tories" while [b]at the same time Labour south of the border are cosying up to white van man.[/b]

who is white van man? are their any white vans driven by men in Scotland? and what is so wrong with cosying up to him?

Not even the Tories were right wing enough to propose a banking system without a lender of last resort!! Moral hazard anyone....the SNP getting into bed with the Adam Smith Institute. Would you Adam and Eve it?

Still poor old Alex was rather confused on anything to do with money, banking and economics - or was that just an act to deceive?

Still no answer - why on earth do you think those people who want an independent Scotland shouldn't campaign for it, shouldn't support the parties that represent their views?

Have you ever thought of going into politics yourself, given that you know better then us what's best for us? I'm sure you're a paragon of virtue and your honesty would brig the voters out in their droves. Hell, why not stand against Salmond, then you can really expose his "lies"?

Still poor old Alex was rather confused on anything to do with money, banking and economics - or was that just an act to deceive?

FFS it wasn't about voting SNP.
It was about the chance of getting independence.
Only then would Scotland be a democratic country. And as for the banks don't get me started.

Do yourself a favour and watch 'the money masters'

You are an 'I'M ALRIGHT JACK' and I claim my £5

It was about independence indeed. And the vote was to reject it.

Keep campaigning for sure but STFU about the result. The argument was poor, very poor and was rightly rejected. Why shouldn't you guys respect that? Focus your ire on those who represented you (and everyone) so incredibly badly.

Still no answer!!! Just non stop whining.....

How about working out what you are going to do with the new income tax powers? The tartan tax remained unused, perhaps you can do something with this one?

Who's going on about the result? I'm a member of the SNP (which is not something I have in common with all 1600000 yes voters by the way) and all I see is looking forward. There's a lot of talk about how to continue the fight, but precious little "whining" about the result. Maybe in the immediate aftermath as people were hurting but nothing for weeks now.

If you're honest, are you just lashing out because the vote was closer than you expected and you're a little uncomfortable about how close you got to feeling rejected? I'm guessing you have a strong affinity with the union, maybe you're old enough to remember the tail end of the empire, so it's understandable that you'd feel threatened that so many people don't feel the same way. Maybe try some of that introspection yourself eh?

Ouch touchy!!!

unknown - Member
If you're honest, are you just lashing out because the vote was closer than you expected and you're a little uncomfortable about how close you got to feeling rejected?

Not lashing out. Just exposing the yS and AS's BS on a consistent basis, Result was pretty much as I predicted all along, thanks.

I'm guessing you have a strong affinity with the union

See posts above, it's very clear!

maybe you're old enough to remember the tail end of the empire

A new career in comedy awaits?

So we have had

1. shock and denial
2. Pain (not sure about the guilt)
3. Anger and bargaining - now

And to come

4. Depression and reflection?
5. The upward turn?
6. Reconstruction?
7. Acceptance

Look on the bright side, we get AS and you get more devolved powers. There is only one winner there!!! Now do something with the powers and cease the whining, for everyone's sake!

Again, what whining is this exactly? I think you'd come out of this better if you were honest about why the result has upset you so much. As it is you just seem quite pompous about people having differing views from you, the irony being that this is exactly the attitude towards Scotland that moved so many people to vote yes in the first place.

If you're trying to appeal to Scottish voters, maybe have a look at Alex Salmond's approval rating post referendum (and 7 years of government) before you focus your attacks on him. Not everyone loves him but your blind hatred makes you seem even more out of touch.

The result hasn't upset me at all. Quite the contrary. My faith in Scotland and it's people confirmed as expected all along.

Nigel Farage is increasing popular - does that mean we should swallow his BS too???

It seems Salmond is hoping to get into a coalition with Labour in order to win more independence concessions. Can't see that myself as it's not in Labours interest, they'd rather form a minority government. The Lib Dems in Gordon have been quite forthright in their condemnation of him.

Those of us who hold a low opinion of Salmond have made clear repeatedly on these threads why, he's a throughly devious and dishonest individual. By some margin the lowest quality individual in British politics.

Yes, you seem like someone who isn't upset at all 😀

If farage still had higher approval ratings than any other party leader after 7 years of government and a referendum campaign then I think you might have to consider the fact that you're wrong about him. But he doesn't does he, so the comparison isn't really valid at all.

No I find it very amusing albeit it in a dark kind of way. Why be upset? Scotland is in a better place now as is the rest of the union. Very good result. And by election aside, AS is not filling our TV screens. Even better.

Remind me of the result? Who exactly is trying to say that others are wrong?!?