It amazes me that anyone could think that a single referendum was going to settle this and that independence should never be discussed again, especially given how narrow the margin was. The vote didn't somehow suddenly make discussion on Scottish independence illegal either.
The most interesting things about the referendum for me were:
1) How narrow the result was in the end (I'd been expecting 60:40)
2) How panicked the UK parties got as the vote approached
3) How the momentum appears to have been maintained by the SNP despite losing the vote. I think the UK parties (and Labour in particular) thought a loss in the referendum would mean the death of the SNP.
4) How badly support for Labour in Scotland appears to have collapsed
This is a long, long way from over and nothing I'm seeing in the likely politics over the next 5-10 years is going to change that. The best thing for the Unionists would be a clear Labour victory in the next general election - including winning the majority of the seats in both England and Scotland. Anything other than that (and I don't personally think that's a likely result) is going to put this issue back on the table. Some potential results might even see the discussion being led from England rather than Scotland i.e. if Labour take a majority of seats in the UK but don't have a majority in England. We've now had a couple of major Labour politicians in Scotland saying they won't stand at the next general election, and there is a fair bit of speculation that it's down to serious concerns about whether their seats are now winnable against the SNP. It'd be highly amusing as well if Labour chose an MP as their next leader in Scotland and he then lost his seat at the general election. Not impossible going by current polling.
It's going to be a very, very interesting couple of years for politics in Scotland, and the referendum was just the kicking off point for that - not the endgame.
FFS's
jambalaya - Member
@epic, of course most Yes supporters would accept full devolution as it's the best of both worlds, full political independence with the UK standing being Scotland financially if the Scots screw up.
The Yes campaigners are welcome to keep pushing on, we would expect them to do that. However they need to accept that they had a chance and they could not carry the argument. They should also accept the UKs right to hold a referendum to decide whether the Scots should be permitted another vote
The 'impartial media' lol, and the London machine. Done a good job of persuading/scaring voters.
This was a massive opportunity for Scotland to be rid of big family corruption.
But it's that corruption that cost us a yes majority.
Watch the money masters, then ye might learn something.
Somebody on here mentioned that the current thinking was another referendum before 2020. If the yes camp lost that then would it not be an indication that Scotland doesn't want independence. At what point will the SNP accept defeat and get on with actually running Scotland?
If the yes camp lost that then would it not be an indication that Scotland doesn't want independence. At what point will the SNP accept defeat and get on with actually running Scotland?
It would depend on the margin. If the gap had narrowed then there is no way it'd put it to bed. If it's widened to say over 60% No then it might.
They should also accept the UKs right to hold a referendum to decide whether the Scots should be permitted another vote
That'd be something that'd 100% ensure independence happened IMHO.
A fair point Steve. I am not trying to run down the yes camp, I just think at some point this is going to start harming Scotland and widening already existing divisions. It really needs putting to bed sooner rather than later.
It really needs putting to bed sooner rather than later.
No way is it going to be put to bed anytime soon, and it'll always come up when there is Tory led government in the UK.
fasternotfatter - MemberAt what point will the SNP accept defeat and get on with actually running Scotland?
They've never stopped.
Indeed again, while hopefully respecting the democratic process that showed that a majority of Scots preferred to remain within the union. Please don't dismiss that desire as easily as your comments suggest. This is democracy remember?
Surely asking the question again once the dust has settled down and we see what UK Gov't has done to back up its promises is the most democratic thing to do.
Northwind - Member
fasternotfatter - MemberAt what point will the SNP accept defeat and get on with actually running Scotland?
They've never stopped.
Never until Scotland gains full independence.
If 80% of Scottish people say No to independence then you can say the issue has been put to bed forever.
If you have 40% or more that wants independence then there is an issue here. They need to be heard and given the chance to have referendum as often as they wish ...
🙂
The SNP will never quit. They might* decline, or collapse into insignificance** or they might*** go on to achieve their primary goal.
* who knows, it's possible
** seems very unlikely. But far from impossible
*** who knows, far far more likely than collapsing into insignificance
My personal take is that the this/next year will see SNP membership reach its zenith. If it's not there already. Whatever happens it seems likely that they'll remain a potent and vocal force within the political scene.
I'm quite intrigued by what's happening to Labour, and how much of an impact the SNP primary raison d'être will have on voter behaviour come the next election. Way too close to such an emotive event to take polling too seriously for me. My guess is, that the probability of another referendum within the next period of government at Holyrood will ultimately have a big impact.
epicsteve - Member
It would depend on the margin. If the gap had narrowed then there is no way it'd put it to bed. If it's widened to say over 60% No then it might.
Phew, so they can put it to bed in approx 1/3 of all the local authorities. Unsurprisingly, not a single local authority had 60% or more saying yes. More of a chance that way (if you strip out the decided) then 😉
What's the difference between East and west Dumbarton that the votes were so different?
What's the difference between East and west Dumbarton that the votes were so different?
Why no go and see for yourself? Speak to the people there, you might just find out.
West has more working class areas than East, which is top heavy with middle class areas.teamhurtmore - Member
epicsteve - Member
It would depend on the margin. If the gap had narrowed then there is no way it'd put it to bed. If it's widened to say over 60% No then it might.
Phew, so they can put it to bed in approx 1/3 of all the local authorities. Unsurprisingly, not a single local authority had 60% or more saying yes. More of a chance that way (if you strip out the decided) thenWhat's the difference between East and west Dumbarton that the votes were so different?
i still find it amusing that people are peddaling the line that 55% was conclusive till the end of time! 😆
Of course [Sturgeon] also said that a NO would mean no change which we can all see was yet another blatant untruth
"No" was the answer. [b]What was the question? [/b]
Sorry what was "your" question? Couldn't answer as I couldn't understand it. The use of NO in the section highlighted is self explanatory.
I don't think it was that complicated. The people of Scotland answered "no". What was the question? It was "Should Scotland be an independent country?", wasn't it? There was no promise not to change anything ever. So your bleating about the SNP (and others) wanting to change Scotland's position within the UK despite a KB on the independence thing is misplaced, isn't it?
i still find it amusing that people are pedalling the line that 55% was conclusive till the end of time!
Had the vote gone the other way, the Yes campaign would have said [b]exactly [/b]that.
In practical terms, perhaps we really need to see if the Scottish Government actually use some of the powers that they already have and the ones that they are due to be given to make Scotland distinct from England, Wales and NI. If they don't then why have devolution?
Can say what they like, doesn't make it correct. If it was a Yes vote, there could well be reunification in the future.sadmadalan - Member
i still find it amusing that people are pedalling the line that 55% was conclusive till the end of time!
Had the vote gone the other way, the Yes campaign would have said exactly that.In practical terms, perhaps we really need to see if the Scottish Government actually use some of the powers that they already have and the ones that they are due to be given to make Scotland distinct from England, Wales and NI. If they don't then why have devolution?
Regards to using new powers, lets see what we get first, and if they are worthwhile using. The smith report isn't law, it's a list of recommendations, that has to go before an entirely new government.
In practical terms, perhaps we really need to see if the Scottish Government actually use some of the powers that they already have and the ones that they are due to be given to make Scotland distinct from England, Wales and NI. If they don't then why
Depends if those powers are actually useful. Most of the public submissions to Smith wanted full control over tax and welfare, none of them wanted control over road signs. Smith recommended only some control of some taxes, and control of road signs.
So we can't get rid of food banks, but we can tell people where they are.
@ben if you want to get rid of foodbanks make donating to charity fully tax deductible, if Scots really care about that issue you'll raise ample funds to do so. Alternatively raise taxes/change tax bands to fund what you wish.
As for the 55% not being a concrete no, as many of us have said 50.1% would have been seen as a decisive Yes by the SNP and lead to permanent change. The SNP themselves said this was a one in a lifetime/generation event.
I see today Nicola Sturgeon is saying she wants to make Scotland business friendly, typically when a Tory down South says the same thing we interpret that as a translation into lower wages, poorer employment conditions/weaker legislation and tax breaks for business. Just curious how NS intends to actually deliver that. I strongly suspect the answer is just like any Tory government would with exactly those same tools.
Just an FYI, even before the referendum Scotland had the power to get rid of this stupid "no booze after 10pm" rule.
Powers can be used for evil too: It makes deciding to go to a party after the pub very difficult.
The problem is we are dealing with people with this level of concern for their voters
[img] 
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Selling the English NHS down the river to their mates.
Maybe it's time the English revved up their political awareness instead of believing the mainstream media which is owned by these guys mates.
I see today Nicola Sturgeon is saying she wants to make Scotland business friendly, typically when a Tory down South says the same thing we interpret that as a translation into lower wages, poorer employment conditions/weaker legislation and tax breaks for business. Just curious how NS intends to actually deliver that. I strongly suspect the answer is just like any Tory government would with exactly those same tools.
This is what is happening at my workplace and others in the guise of becoming "competitive" with our competitors in Asia, the Middle East, China and Turkey.
MrsT works for a gov dept, voluntary severance has been announced for gov employees...... She hasn't had a pay rise for a few yrs now!!!!
IMO how they administer what they have and what they are about to receive and deal with "world" issues will determine on how I would vote again if it the opportunity arises in my life time. Could say they are serving their apprenticeship or on probation.....
@epic no one is privatising the nhs, certainly not Labour, Lib Dems or the Tories. If you ask me if every service the nhs use and every function required to run a medical service needs to be carried out by a government employee then I'm going to tell you "no it doesn't need to be"
😆 @ Clegg only getting £5k
Are the Glasgow foodbanks still having the rather unsavoury little turf war?
There was mention of ice cream vans in the article I read.
Edit, this is the one http://thirdforcenews.org.uk/social-justice-and-poverty/news/exclusive-foodbank-wars-erupt-in-glasgow
Need to look at this ice cream malarkey. New to me.
The problem is we are dealing with people with this level of concern for their voters
How did they receive that money, out of interest? Can't be a straight bribe surely?
I wouldn't do anything as vulgar as giving you money to spend on yourself. I'll just give you money to spend on your political career so you can keep earning money. that's totally different.
Well I'm pretty sure the hard nosed business men giving that sort of money expect something in return.
But even better is to look at the connections with the oil industry of the Lords who vote on oil issues.
If your local councillors did that, they'd be in jail.
So they are just party donations then? Rather than personal kickback?
Healthcare is big business and with an ageing population it's getting bigger. 38 degrees is a political campaign group like all the others. I have no doubt there will be a long list of Labour Party MPs similarly funded.
Given the SNPs catalogue of lies over the NHS, that poster takes the McVities.
There was mention of ice cream vans in the article I read
The ice-cream war was about turf battles between gangs who used the ice cream vans as a distribution network.
Pretty sensationalist nonsense to refer to that in relation to a couple of food banks bad mouthing each other.
There was a great movie about the ice cream wars, one of my favourites. With Claire Grogan
Edit here you go, Comfort and Joy 8)
This thread is great! For the next referendum I don't think we should have a Yes campaign, just let loose the unionist zoomers and let them do the job for us. I'm convinced some people on here are double-agents.
Yeah that worked last time didn't it 🙄
Have no white paper this time either, having no answers to the EU or what currency would be used didn't hurt last time did it?
p.s thanks for continuing to let us park nuclear subs and trident in Scotland 😉
So they are just party donations then? Rather than personal kickback?
it's a party donation with a personal benefit to the individual. NB you can donate specifically to a constituency party as well as central party - I want to get molgrips elected in Rotherham so here's fifty grand for his/her campaign...
Wowzers!
I still can't believe the amount of people on here who still affiliate themselves to the mainstream parties.
Watch 'the money masters' 3.5-hours of educational awareness.
After watching that, you might be more aware why 'Scotland' were manipulated using 'mass mainstream media' as a means to voting No.
Edit here you go, Comfort and Joy.
TA for that. Might give that a watch.
They cleary take their Ice Cream seriously in Glasgow.
Wowzers!
I still can't believe the amount of people on here who still affiliate themselves to the mainstream parties.
Watch 'the money masters' 3.5-hours of educational awareness.
Agreed. I'll not vote SNP again next time out.
I still can't believe the amount of people on here who still affiliate themselves to the mainstream parties.
Watch 'the money masters' 3.5-hours of educational awareness.After watching that, you might be more aware why 'Scotland' were manipulated using 'mass mainstream media' as a means to voting No.
That's the beauty of democracy, you can vote for who you want. I prefer to focus on the main parties as they are ones who can actually influence something rather than just a niche protest vote.
Do they make the trains run on time?
@ben, they = the major political parties ? No as its not a priority in the UK like it is in Germany, France or Switzerland unfortunately. I can vouch for that after commuting/using public transport for 30 years in various countries
By the way has there been any commentary on the Oil price and the impact on Scotland, had they voted Yes a $65 price would have been a major issue ? Russia is projected to enter a significant period of recession now, inflation at 10% as their currency collapses and the state oil company Rosneft needs a $50bn loan. A snapshot of the exposure an independent Scotland would have had to the price of oil
political games, the oil price will go back up when the handbags with the russians has stopped.jambalaya - Member
By the way has there been any commentary on the Oil price and the impact on Scotland, had they voted Yes a $65 price would have been a major issue ? Russia is projected to enter a significant period of recession now, inflation at 10% as their currency collapses and the state oil company Rosneft needs a $50bn loan. A snapshot of the exposure an independent Scotland would have had to the price of oil
