To me the really questionable appointment is Falconer. Milliband I do not mind
Starmer had to include some more experienced people and too many of the potential candidates are badly tarnished so it would be hard for him to find those experienced folk
Milliband is experienced and able.
Is it my imagination, or is STW in agreement
It'll never happen!
I see the " Starmer let Saville off" attack line is already gaining traction. We will see a lot more of this
but not sure it gives a good “moving forward” message to the general public.
I have a gut feeling most of the general public will maybe remember him as the guy who turned up and didn't get in, but at the same time didn't leave much of a lasting impression. I guess there has to be benefit in prior experience in the cabinet and he might well be the relatively uncontentious choice, in the role he's in.
He wasn't great at eating bacon sandwiches
I see the ” Starmer let Saville off” attack line is already gaining traction.
No it isn't. I haven't even heard it and nobody is going to believe it.
We will see a lot more of this
We won't. Corbyn was the gift the kept giving. People were posting long spreadsheets of insane/unpopular/downright wrong things Corbyn and his henchmen had done/said. We are going to see far, far less of this stuff. Starmer just hasn't provided the material for his detractors. (He has less detractors too!)
I think the return of Miliband is the biggest contention.
Not really - it's pretty easy to justify on the basis of him doing the job in the last Labour government. I'm not Binners so don't object to him because he was on the losing side.
I see the ” Starmer let Saville off” attack line is already gaining traction.
No it isn’t. I haven’t even heard it and nobody is going to believe it.
A very quick Google will sadly prove this otherwise.
Please don't Google that story. It will only bump it up the page.
A very quick Google will sadly prove this otherwise.
It doesn't. By definition the DoPP can be accused of letting off every single person that the department couldn't prosecute, but nobody's going to buy that logic. It isn't gaining any traction at all it's bollocks. It won't cost him a single vote.
It isn’t gaining any traction at all it’s bollocks
Sadly it has gained traction - some of my 'friends' on Facebook have already shared and commented on it. These are the same people who believed all the xenophobic narrative around Brexit and Boris's lies.
He wasn’t great at eating bacon sandwiches
And his dad was a trot. I quite like Ed Miliband, he's been given the brief that will have most input on climate change/green new deal and has proposed some quite radical stuff whilst on the backbenches so I'm expecting more of that. After RLB he's the next best choice to formulate Labour climate change policies.
Although he lost an election, which according to some on here means he should be banished forever.
It doesn’t. By definition the DoPP can be accused of letting off every single person that the department couldn’t prosecute, but nobody’s going to buy that logic. It isn’t gaining any traction at all it’s bollocks. It won’t cost him a single vote.
People believe 5g causes Coronavirus.
Although he lost an election, which according to some on here means he should be banished forever.
Said who?
Anyway, I think he’s ideal for the role in terms of skills, knowledge, aptitude and policy direction, just worried about the optics about appointing a past figurehead when Labour needs to not be seen to be looking backwards.
Sadly it has gained traction – some of my ‘friends’ on Facebook have already shared and commented on it. These are the same people who believed all the xenophobic narrative around Brexit and Boris’s lies.
So not potential voters for Labour under Starmer. This won't cost him a single vote. It's nothing. It's like David Cameron's Pig story.
Said who?
You have a very short memory. Were you not reading yesterday's exchanges?
No one has said that being part of the losing team at any of the last four elections is reason enough to exclude anyone from the new cabinet, or all future cabinets. Hell, we’ve all welcomed the leadership result, so that would make no sense at all. There are some from the most recent team that really did need kicking into touch, and they have been, thankfully, but not just because they were ‘part of a losing team’ or ‘lost an election’.
[strong]outofbreath[/strong] wrote:
I see the ” Starmer let Saville off” attack line is already gaining traction.
No it isn’t. I haven’t even heard it and nobody is going to believe it.
We will see a lot more of this
e.g... Post 14. And that isn't the first smear on that thread.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/sir-keir-starmer.314136/
OOB
Don't be naive. The attack dogs have been preparing for this for a while. Look what they did to Milliband. Look how they went after Corbyn
The articles in the rightwing papers have already started
Expect to see them pushing the "soft on peados"
Edit also given his work in human rights cases expect the " terrorists friend" line and of course "champagne socialist"
Don’t be naive. The attack dogs have been preparing for this for a while. Look what they did to Milliband. Look how they went after Corbyn
The articles in the rightwing papers have already started
Expect to see them pushing the “soft on peados”
Edit also given his work in human rights cases expect the ” terrorists friend” line and of course “champagne socialist”
None of it has wings and compared to the boat load of genuine material Corbyn and McDonnell had been handing to the media over decades it's nothing. If it did have wings (it doesn't) it's the sort of weak crap they had on Cameron (investments, pig) and Miliband (how he ate a bacon sandwich) that made zero impact nothing remarkable.
Maybe Starmer does have some skeletons in his closet. I doubt it. Time will tell.
You really don't think the attacks on Milliband had no effect? Father a traitor who hates this country? that sort of thing. How about Foot and his "disresectful jacket"
Corbyn they kept on trying different lines of attack until they found one that stuck - antisemitism - despite no one ever producing a single antisemitic thing he had done.
You watch - the attack dogs will be after him with real vigour inventing stuff to attack him with and its already started.
And jumping to the defence of Russia when it was taking the piss, of course. Probably Milne&Murray’s fault, and may have seemed a “measured approach” to Corbyn, but to lots of people you’d expect to vote Labour, especially in the North, he wasn’t on their side, he was on Russia’s side.
“ Can I just finish…?!? ”
Anyway, the Corbyn thread is full of this, let’s leave it there. Your attempts to dilute everything down to a conspiracy around anti-semitism is unfounded and plain wrong though. He was attacked on many fronts, and much of it stuck, and some of it was his own fault, and the fault of his choice of inner circle of advisers.
And jumping to the defence of Russia when it was taking the piss, of course.
Aside from he didnt. He just mentioned the tedious idea of actually having evidence. Whereas the muppets lied about evidence and undermined the case before getting tough on twitter and then achieving, what exactly?
That this attack is repeated without thinking shows just how easy it is to get the smears started.
Pretty amazing given how the brexiteer elite and the tories are in the pocket of the new Russian elite.
As it said, probable seemed fair and reasoned to Corbyn, but to many voters he picked sides when Russia carried out hits on foreign soil, while Putin and his people were openly making fun of us over it.
All been done. Go to the thread. I just can’t let the idea that it was all about anti-semitism stand unchallenged. The number of successful attack angles open to Corbyn detractors was numerous, and many stuck, and some of them were made so so easy by Corbyn and his team. Being seen to share Russian disinformation at a time when tensions were high was just the example I picked. Any more discussion about all this, I’m happy to do join in with in the other thread, not clog up this one. Hopefully TJ will do the same.
That this attack is repeated without thinking shows just how easy it is to get the smears started.
The thing is, once people have heard something, they can't unhear it.
Most people just double down on their original (mis)belief when presented with actual evidence that this belief is wrong.
Modern politics is boiling down to who is spamming up Facebook, and little more. The fake news, if you will. It's the curse of our age.
As it said, probable seemed fair and reasoned to Corbyn, but to many voters he picked sides when Russia carried out hits on foreign soi
The point though is I would expect anyone who isnt a blowhard moron in the pocket of the russian oligarchs to have taken the same position of actually wanting evidence rather than sending threats on ****ing twitter.
I would certainly expect a lawyer and former head of the CPS to actually act professionally rather than like a child and do the lets gather evidence rather than lie about it.
Milliband in the cabinet isn't really new, previous leadership didn't hamper Hague, IDS or David Davis did it?
No it isn’t. I haven’t even heard it and nobody is going to believe it.
Except the people that were talking about it in work last night. It's happening, deal with it.
Political advertising is (mercifully) banned on British TV. Why can't we ban social media advertising too?
The rest of the team have been announced. God, I really want this lot in government. It’s not just who is in the “minor” roles, but how well suited they are for the roles they have given. Smart people are calling the shots. This looks a government in waiting more than any shadow cabinet for a long, long time.
Kelvin,
Yes, as I said on another thread (can't remember which one, I get confused!) This line up looks way more competent than the current cabinet of curiosities. Even RLB in the education post makes some sort of sense, (don't rate her at all but understand someone from the left had to be in there to placate the marxist wing) great to see Nandy as shadow foreign secretary.
Don't screw things up by propping up the government, Were not all in this together, we're being dragged through the mud by a bunch of chancers, they look terrified at the daily briefings and they must see that the shadow cabinet now looks far more competent and confident than they do.
Now ban the use of the word socialism unless prefaced by the word corporate and apply it to the Tories. We know what a hard time they'll be given by the gutter press (Telegraph now included in that segment of the media) So don't give them any ammunition if you can help it.
From now on I'm going to refer to the Conservatives as the Corporate Socialist Party. Because that's what they are. The biggest danger to the country right now is how the CSP will exploit coronavirus by bailing out all their mates leaving the rest of us drowning.
I'm going to bore the s*** out of everyone with this as I believe it's the strategy Labour should follow. Don't take an anti capitalist stance, reclaim the word by claiming the Tories have abandoned capitalism in favour of Corporate Socialism. Capitalism should be about competition not monopolies, capitalism needs diversity and innovation in business not corporate raiding and cronyism. Champion small and medium sized businesses, encourage localism rather than Globalism.
Capitalism needs solid social institutions in order to both survive and thrive. Social institutions aren't socialist, they are the fabric upon which prosperity and opportunity for all are woven.
I'll stop now, got to go and bang some pots and pans.
I really want this lot in government. It’s not just who is in the “minor” roles, but how well suited they are for the roles they have given. Smart people are calling the shots. This looks a government in waiting more than any shadow cabinet for a long, long time.
Yup. Labour have cracked it AFAIC. They've sorted themselves out in a one-er. Getting the NEC back as well, that wasn't a certainty, but they've done it.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1248148683822071809?s=19
It's early days - but if this was Corbyn you'd be pulling him to pieces on such a shoddy presentation.
It looks like an interview from a random stranger.
Dear god. Hope it's only warm up act.
It’s early days – but if this was Corbyn you’d be pulling him to pieces on such a shoddy presentation.
Actually I hadn't seen it, but you're right, it's mental:
I’m calling on the Government to publish its exit strategy.
I’m not calling for precise timings, but the strategy.
We don't know how many people have already had it. We don't know when a working antibody test will be available in large numbers. We don't know when a vaccine will be available if ever. We don't know if/when the reagents shortage will end. It's totally impossible to come up with an exit strategy from what we know right now. No country in the world has published an exit strategy at this stage it's ludicrous!
At the moment all they can do is keep using lockdowns to try to control the number of people turning up at hospitals and see what comes along in the way of tests/vaccines/treatments.
We might not be able to work out what the specific strategy will be best, but the options are all very well known. If Starmer can't work out the various potential exit strategies depending on circumstances there's a real bloody problem, jesus most STWers could do that!
Mind ewe, that is twitter, it probably won't get into the mainstream media so maybe it's aimed at his existing supporters rather than voters in general.
Either way, I is dissapoint. 🙁
Is it just me, or is Keir just a little bit rosy-cheeked in a Charles Kennedy sort of way?
Yup. Labour have cracked it AFAIC.
Calm down dear. It won't be long before people tire of his charisma-free barrister cold-ness and start criticising him because he's not a 'character'. He may be the best of a bad bunch but lets not forget that labour have elected a leader who a couple of years ago everyone would have laughed if you'd said he'd be the saviour of the labour party. Roll on Angela Rayner in 4 years time 😉
Rone,
Yup, that was pretty disappointing, sounded just like Corbyn. He should be telling the government what their strategy should be, not asking them what it is because we know they don't and never have had one.
I'd have voted for Nandy if I were a member, always thought Starmer was boring.
Dazh,
It's not just you, he does look a bit rosy cheeked, maybe he's been drinking Corona.
Gone very quiet on here, much like our glorious saviour. 1000s of people dying, healthcare workers still without sutable PPE (or being accused of using too much of it), and everyone obsessing about the health of the man responsible, and all we get is a couple of tweets and a statement on the doorstep meekly requesting that they give us a bit more info. Is this what 'credible opposition' and 'holding the government to account' looks like? Pull your finger out Keir.
I’m not sure what you’re complaining about, or asking for, really. Have a beer.
I’m not sure what you’re complaining about, or asking for, really.
Nothing really. Was bored 🙂
Seriously though, what exactly is going on? We're now clocking up more C19 deaths than Italy were (and not counting lots of them in carehomes) and labour seems to have gone on holiday for the easter weekend. Seems like Alastair Cambell is doing most of the opposing at the moment. I can only imagine what people would be saying had Corbyn been at the helm (this might be a regular feature BTW!).
I can only imagine what people would be saying had Corbyn been at the helm
Probably bad things. So unfair.
Got that beer in your hand yet?
More 'meaningful opposition' this morning from Lisa Nandy on Marr. Apparently 'this wasn't a forseeable crisis', even though it was foreseen in 2016, and we had an 8 week window on the future when it kicked off in China. It's a novel approach, agreeing with everything they say and making excuses for them will probably distract the tories and lull them into a false sense of security.
Is it just me, or is Keir just a little bit rosy-cheeked in a Charles Kennedy sort of way?
Wow, getting the boot in early are you?
If Starmer can’t work out the various potential exit strategies depending on circumstances there’s a real bloody problem, jesus most STWers could do that!
Most STWers seemingly can't follow the existing guidelines without a prescriptive list of every permissible action allowed under lockdown rather than just following the spirit of them, never mind come up with a useful exit strategy. I think you're giving too much credit here.
There's a balance between the economy and CV deaths and the Government *will* get it wrong just as every Government in the world will.
The less Labour say now the better, the run up to the next election will be a superb time to be in opposition.
I’d really like them to be putting the boot in right now, but all that would do is drive voters away I suspect, “I can never vote for them after they played politics while my [insert connection here] was in hospital fearing for their life.” I think Corbyn’s written response to this situation was spot on, even if he didn’t get it proof read, and suspect the move to anything more critical of the government will be slow and careful. As I said, I’d rather they were loudly critical of the points raised by Corbyn and others, but it’s pretty clear why they are being quietly critical, and shifting focus towards the exit strategy, which we can assume will only be put into place once there are fewer deaths. Timing is key, if frustrating.
I’d currently be very loud about PPE, lack of quarantine rules for those returning from abroad, and other mistakes made early on, with particular focus on the cabinet, and PM especially, taking long breaks from their roles while this was all kicking off internationally. But then, I’m an unelectable big mouth.
