Rayner has done her job. Well. I’m continually impressed with her political nouse.
Really? She has no political nous at all. Think back to her comments on Scotland. I think she is a complete liability.
BND I hate tax avoiders and even I think the above is OK!
The pickle Starmer is in in relation to the LBC caller and racism generally:
“We just have to look across to the Middle East,” the caller continued. “Israel has a state law that they are the only people in that country to have self-determination. Well why can’t I as a white British female have that same right?”
The trouble is that in a way she has a point - if an ethnonationalist state is something Starmer strongly supports in the case of Israel, then you can't exactly call someone a racist for wanting the same thing in this country.
I mean, I can, but he can't.
Sir Keir to the rescue. He has a cunning plan to save this wonderful, endearing, enduring political Union from those nasty separatists - a new commission on devolution to make it the bestest devolution in the world. Who could he possibly pick to lead such an important and far-reaching body? Why, Gordon Brown of course.
Does someone want to tell him it's not 2014 anymore?
On the one hand Brown batting for the Tories on indy helped sink labour in Scotland for probably a generation
But it was nice to see Labour making a case for the Union, the tories seem like they really wouldn't mind being shot of Scotland
But it was nice to see Labour making a case for the Union, the tories seem like they really wouldn’t mind being shot of Scotland
How? What act or omission are they doing?
I would expect that things will ramp up in the new year as hopefully covid and Brexit start to wane
Brown has spoken a lot of sense =- from a unionist perspective. Its a damn sight better than anything else from the branch office
Labour need a logically coherent position on devolution /the union / the UK. It doesn't really matter what it is but it has to have some foundation
Does someone want to tell him it’s not 2014 anymore?
This. A federal UK could have saved the union. I fear we’re beyond that now. And not just as regards Scotland. Other home nations don’t just mistrust Westminster politicians, they mistrust the English voters to consider their interests when they vote. The signs are there that only a minority of English voters give a damn about what happens in Scotland or Northern Ireland in particular.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1341332432344244224?s=19
No real opposition.
Fag package difference on ideologies does not a difference make.
No ifs not buts Starmer.
I just do not get why Starmer wants to vote for a deal. I understand not restarting old arguments and accepting Brexit is done but abstaining must be right to make the tories own the deal
Lets hope he changes his mind 'cos i think he is making a major blunder here
The vote (and debate) is meaningless. The Government already has the means to pass this into legislation without a Commons vote. The best tactic would therefore be to boycott the whole sham.
I agree with both of you. I want to see the Labour Party leave the Tory Party to own their poor deal. But, then, we all think Brexit is the beginning of a new further to the right Britain… this choice isn’t being made with us in mind… if Starmer wants to win the next election (I still don’t think he’s the man for that, but that’s by and by) many think that he needs to be seen to be acting in support of a deal, while beginning the process of explaining how it should be improved upon in four years time. He needs his MPs to vote to accept a bad deal, and push for a better one… to abstain now will push many voters into the arms of the Tory Party… they will accept the erosion of their rights and opportunities, if they can be made to see the Labour Party as being anti-British and abstaining on the biggest votes.
Hmmm - maybe thats the logic but I do not buy it. It will kill labour in Scotland completely - "two cheeks of the same arse"!
I think it would be unrealistic for Labour to think that many of the 50 or so seats they need to gain at the next general election will be in Scotland. I know they’re back to pushing the federal angle… but Scotland is on a path now… and Labour aren’t part of it. Targeting regional English and Welsh seats is their real focus. For what it’s worth, the SNP are, again, taking the route I would like to see Labour take… that is, make it clear that this thin one sided deal is a Tory deal, and refuse to support it… but I can see the logic in Labour’s approach as regards the voters they are targeting.
That’s a very good and complete Twitter thread scotroutes. Now, how many voters (south of the Border) that voted Tory at the last election, or didn’t vote at all, and Labour need to win over… would read or understand more than one or two posts in something like that? Politics today is more complicated than ever, but needs to be carried out in a way that looks simple. The Tories get this. Labour are trying to grasp it. Are they succeeding? Only partly. Does this mean that they aren’t taking the approach I would like? For sure.
An update on Rone’s post on the previous page…
https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1341683569031299072?s=21
From Scotroutes tweet, Scottish Labour only really have one policy, slag off the SNP. It's no surprise that the same thing happens here. Probably looks odd to people outside of Scotland though.
An update on Kelvin's post above:
Labour should abstain. If they rubber stamp this shite deal the Tories and their mates in the fascist media will keep ramming it down their throats for evermore.
The 'deal' is marked 'trap' in big red letters.
TBH, the vote is marked "trap" in big red letters.
Indeed.
An update on Kelvin’s post above:
So gaining with all the polling companies?
Not sure it’ll last… getting an FTA should win Johnson back some of his waining support…… depends on how his “wait till it’s too late” coronavirus strategy keeps going down I suppose.
So gaining with all the polling companies?
Alternatively, behind in nearly all of the polls. Hopefully that'll change, but Starmer is not making me optimistic.
but Starmer is not making me optimistic
Me neither, but realistically, what the hell do we do about it...? 😕
I think we can safely say that Labour have given up on Scotland (and probably Northern Ireland) and are focusing all their efforts on the North of England.
That's the only explanation I can think of for supporting this deal.
I think he has no understanding of scottish politics and probably relies too much on the right wing idiot Ian Murray ( the man who preferred a tory westminster government to the SNP winning seats)
From Scotroutes tweet, Scottish Labour only really have one policy, slag off the SNP. It’s no surprise that the same thing happens here. Probably looks odd to people outside of Scotland though.
Every time that Leonard fella opens his nouth at FMQ, I cannot help myself but cringe. I'd be amazed if Starmer doesn't feel the same, as BruceWee says, they've given up on the northern branch.
So, according to some of the more vociferous left-wing Twitterers today, tomorrow at 4pm #starmerquits
Looks legit to me...
Worth remembering that these same people have been predicting a glorious socialist revolution in the UK for at least 50 years
Yeah, those same Twitterers are claiming that's as a result of the Starmer going reports...
Really? Are we allowed to call people who claim polls are influenced by rumours started after the polling was carried out “stupid”?
Anyway, he’s doing better than I expect polling wise at this point. Lots he isn’t doing that I’d like him to… but then he already has my vote nailed on… I’m not a target voter.
How do you say realpolitik in German?
Really? Are we allowed to call people who claim polls are influenced by rumours started after the polling was carried out “stupid”?
I don't see why not...
Really? Are we allowed to call people who claim polls are influenced by rumours started after the polling was carried out “stupid”?
I doubt many will be accusing them of being particularly astute
Most of those people on that Twitter feed are not allowed sharp craft knifes at play time. Unless I'm missing the ironic call by some to bring back that old fool who supported brexit by doing nothing at all to stop it.
Are we allowed to call people who claim polls are influenced by rumours started after the polling was carried out “stupid”?
Yes
Good to see you guys are really focussed on the positives SKS brings to the table and not just still endlessly whining about irrelevant socialist bogeymen and what they post on twitter. Keep it up!
I think Starmer made a massivve blunder in voting for the deal. However thats his only real mistake so far ( apart from keeping Nandy)
He’s not resigned then?
Who’d have thunk it?
Surely not?!?
He’s been (finally) addressing the national “lock down” we need, right now, to address the upcoming, largest, peak in the ongoing pandemic. About bloody time.
So, a rumour starts spreading about Starmer quitting.
Distraction?
According to the The Observer, the Tory gerrymandering plan is back on the cards. If true, the hill SKS has to climb may get significantly steeper...
