Well, that’s me depressed about it enough for this year then. I apologise for thinking Starmer was wrong to withdraw the whip
Because of something his wife posted on twitter. Seems reasonable.
There's another post on that guy's Twitter about how great Priti Patel is. Guess he's just part of the 'real world' too.
EDIT: I’m out of this, ‘till it stops being another Corbyn thread. Once he’s gone, I’ll come back and see how Starmer is getting on, if he’s stuck it out that is.
I had a quick look but didn't see anything too wacky. Which posts are you referring to?
Gotta love the Corbyn apologists!
Impressive contortions and doublethink.
Corbyn is a bitter old man and he'd rather damage the party he's supposedly part of than knuckle under and accept that he got it wrong.
What a saddo.
Because of lots of things his wife has put on Twitter.
Should he have controlled his woman better?
Should he have controlled his woman better?
Trying to distract from the core issue with a straw man again?
Ok. As you were everyone.
The core issue is what someone's wife posts on twitter?
The core issue is what someone’s wife posts on twitter?
You aren't half as good as you think you are at this 'pushing out clouds of ink' to distract from the core issue.
The core issue is that Labour were unelectable under Corbyn. This was proved in the only poll that matters. A general election. He lost by 80 seats to a fly-tipped sofa. A shambles who ran from scrutiny.
Corbyn got the boot and now his supposed 'principles' are an excuse to petulantly damage his successor. Because he is a sore loser and can't accept it. Boo ****ing hoo.
Meanwhile, just as Labour should be pointing at the Tories and saying "look at this bunch of crooks and liars, and just wait until you see what THEIR Brexit is going to do to you", Starmer is getting dragged into a petty little sideshow.
The tory press are loving it.
It's impressive how class politics can get completely derailed by 'identities' - useful to the far right as well as sections of the left. It leads people to beat up the wrong enemies and sometimes cathartically beat themselves up, all very entertaining when viewed from above.
all very entertaining when viewed from above.
In the past, when politics had a shred of decency left, it could be viewed as an amusing sideshow.
However, in a little over a month, Johnson and his cronies are going to willingly do (split infinitive soz) massive damage to our economy.
With much of the electorate having the attention span of a goldfish, Labour should have one priority. Shine the spotlight on the Tories and Brexit. Emphasise that the utter cluster**** that is going to transpire is entirely down to them.
Corbyn is just helping the Tories (again) by providing an irrelevant sideshow the Tory media can play up to distract from what is about to happen. The fool.
I think you'll find it's the right that are making a sideshow of Corbyn. Corbyn and the left, however that's defined, gets more attention and aggression than does Johnson. Are people spewing at the government for re-imposing austerity, spending £12bn EXTRA on arms, £12bn handed over to Serco, chumocracy? No. They're going on about grandad, allotments, cults, 6th forms, identities, so not to worry.
The core issue is that Labour were unelectable under Corbyn
They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election. But that's in the past, so whatever.
The person in charge now is Starmer and this mess is as much his creation as Corbyn's. At what point does he have to take some responsibility?
Corbyn and the left, however that’s defined, gets more attention and aggression than does Johnson
This. I think that sadly many of the Labour right have more in common with Johnson than they do Corbyn.
They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election
They were certainly unelectable with half their MPs against him and some actively wanting to lose the election. But that’s in the past, so whatever.
Care to expand on that?
Just give me a couple of minutes to get a cuppa....
Should he have controlled his woman better?
Absolutely. She doesn't seem to understand that politicians wives are not allowed a mind of their own and are there only to provide a bit of eye-candy and be seen and not heard. He should give her a slap next time she steps out of line.
And while we're on the subject of stroppy women speaking out of turn, Leanne Wood, former leader of Plaid Cymru doesn't seem to have read the script either.
https://twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/1330389706987679744?s=20
I rate Wood very highly. I've already replied to her on twitter though. Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?
It's currently about how SKS and how he's dealt with Corbyn, because SKS hasn't really done anything else of note (apart from supporting the government spending billions on 'defence' I guess).
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn.... it's all about Corbyn. The relief flowing through Tory rank and file must be palpable.
I did in and out of this thread so apologies if this has been answered.
When when the AS report came out did Corbyn not show some humility and just say sorry? He could have easily said, I apologise for my failures as Labour leader as are highlighted in this report. I will work with KS to do all we can to rid the Labour party of this cancerous issue.
If he had done this it would have been a non story and would have helped unite the party and they could have gotten on with the job in hand which is holding this government to account?
What he has done is turn it around to try and be seen as the victim and has just created a larger mess than needs be, it has helped to widen the factions in the party and has given the Tories more ammunition. Its like he and his supporters would rather keep the Tories in power rather than just let go of some of their ideologies or at the very least water them down which would increase the prospects of a Labour government. Once in power they could help slowly drag the party back to the left once the general voting public realise that most of their policies are not communist nonsense and that they would actually benefit from most of them.
As it stands it seems to be an all or nothing approach which will inevitably lead to more years or Tory rule which is in no doubt worse than a centrist labour government that with luck could move back to the left.
I had hope for JC back in 2017 but after that it became clear he was never going to become PM, he should have let go of some of his principles and moved aside, then we might not be in such a crappy place.
Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?
What would you like to discuss? Top trumps on which Corbyn policies Starmer will ditch first? Actually, seeing as we're in spending review week, what I'd like to see is him talking truthfully about the government debt and about how much of it is a mirage. He could go a long way towards funding everything he wants to do, and changing the narrative on debt, deficits and austerity by exposing the lie at the heart of our economic system. He won't though, because when it comes down to it, he's as much in hock to the establishment as the tories are. How much would you like to bet?
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1330812949498388480?s=20
Any chance of this thread not being about Corbyn any time soon?
Well I guess it depends on if Starmer actually starts doing anything useful.
I am not holding my breath to be honest since his main approach at the moment seems to be failing at PMQ since Johnson can just ignore him and waffle on.
he’s as much in hock to the establishment as the tories are
For god sake, we have years of this bullshit. I think Starmer is just going to have to embrace the idea of letting the party split... and then let someone else rebuild from a lower memembership/supporter base after the split. Some of you seem to think the options are Corbyn or Tory... and no new leader is going to be able to bridge that gap, and win 40% of a general election vote. He'll just have to hope he can hold onto enough of us "left" voters who are interested in getting rid of the Tories to vote Labour under Starmer... or whoever replaces him... because I don't see him making it to the next election now. He's going to be removed... or give up.
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn…. it’s all about Corbyn.
Looking through this page, most of the comments about Corbyn seem to be coming from his critics.
Anyway, Starmer: the pitch is sailing by and I'm not convinced he's going to take a swing at it. The occasional news report of victory of PMQs gets the usual suspects rubbing their thighs, but is going to make eff all difference at the ballot box.
I was totally up for giving Starmer a chance and thought he might make a good moderate electable unifier but it's not going well is it.
And the fact that he describes himself as a Zionist, took money from pro Israel lobby groups and didn't declare it, has approved government spaffing massive amounts on defence... then this Corbyn omnishambles... He's lost me already tbh
it’s not going well is it
Not at all well.
And that's 100% not his responsibility eh?
Some of you seem to think the options are Corbyn or Tory
No, it's not about the personalities, it never was. It's about a corrupt and inherently unsustainable economic system which only serves the interests of a tiny few people and enables them to extract wealth and power at the cost of everyone else, or doing something else which benefits everyone, and gives everyone the same chances and opportunities irregardless of their background. That's all it is, and all its ever been.
Blair won power with the often repeated mantra that you have to win first, then change things later. But the minute he was in place he declared he had no intention of changing things, and instead doubled down on the bankrupt and corrupt system which is the root of all our problems. If Starmer wants to hold on to the support he gained with his excellent leadership campaign, he needs to provide real confidence that he's not going to do the same as Blair, and right now that confidence is draining away very fast.
Im afraid the left of the party spectacularly misses the point as usual.
If you push the agenda of McLusky & Corbin, you will NEVER EVER EVER get elected. The middle ground voters are who you need. Militant unionists and Palestine sympathisers won't get you there.
As things stand, the Tories will come to the next election post Boris with a centralist candidate and destroy Labour. Again. The only hope is a moderate like Starmer.
Blair won power with the often repeated mantra that you have to win first, then change things later.
Starmer isn’t Blair. Starmer isn’t Johnson, or May, or Cameron. The next leader, once the Corbyn cult have removed or hobbled Starmer, may well take an approach more like Blair, sadly… it’s looking like being a smaller party by then though, isn’t it. It probably won’t have my vote then either. Starmer is an ideal candidate for the current Labour movement to unify behind… when he’s pushed out, unifying will be seen as a dead loss, and a split/realignment will have to happen.
Im afraid the left of the party spectacularly misses the point as usual.
If you push the agenda of McLusky & Corbin, you will NEVER EVER EVER get elected. The middle ground voters are who you need. Militant unionists and Palestine sympathisers won’t get you there.
As things stand, the Tories will come to the next election post Boris with a centralist candidate and destroy Labour. Again. The only hope is a moderate like Starmer.
I'm afraid it's you who is missing the point, so I'll repeat it: the maths of Starmer's victory proves that those who voted for Corbyn subsequently voted for Starmer in their thousands.
If you push the agenda of McLusky & Corbin, you will NEVER EVER EVER get elected.
There is research showing a great deal of support for much of the Labour manifesto under Corbyn, when presented independently of political party/leader.
So people didn't like Corbyn, fine. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. As the Tories lurch further to the right why not provide a real alternative rather than chasing the new centre as it shifts ever further right too.
Blair undoubtedly did some good but a lot of it was paid for with the great PFI scam because they were too scared to tax people.
So people didn’t like Corbyn, fine. But don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Agreed.
Are we all getting free broadband then, or not?
Fine. Keep your heads in the sand. I would vote for Starmer, but in the last GE I voted Green as Corbyn completely unfit for office and I detest McLusky (seen him in action in my company). I am not alone.
My family are all similar.
Fine. Keep your heads in the sand.
Well-constructed comeback.
Are we all getting free broadband then, or not?
We absolutely should be. The fact that you and most others think that its an unaffordable policy is proof only that you've been brainwashed into not supporting things that are in your own best interest. It's a bit like saying 'so are we all getting a free covid vaccine then?'. Of course the answer to that is an unambiguous yes (when one is ready), so why not for other things we need which are in the collective best interest?
I urge you to read the following twitter thread, once you understand it you'll realise that questions about whether we can afford free broadband or other things central to our lives are a bit silly.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1330492226678513669?s=20
So people didn’t like Corbyn, fine. But don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
That's pretty much where I am: whilst I'm more supportive of Corbyn than most, I recognise his serious shortcomings as leader. Yet, given the popularity of his proposals, there would seem to be an opportunity for someone, with more PR savvy and better leadership skills. I hope that Starmer can be that person.
We absolutely should be.
Agreed.
I hope that Starmer can be that person.
Agreed.
I detest McLusky
Agreed.
I detest McLusky
Agreed.
He's retiring soon, so I wouldn't worry too much about him. It'll be interesting to see who UNISON elect - I've just voted.
Christ, how refreshing to see the word...
Agreed.
... on a political thread on here! 🙂
Once Len is retired he'll be getting his ennoblement for services to the Conservative Party and will sit in the house of Lords as a Tory Pier, where he will drop the accent he's been putting on for years and reveal his perfect home counties vernacular
He's not even a scouser. He was born and raised in Surrey, then post Eton and Oxbridge, after studying some VHS's of John Lennon, he was secreted into the port of Liverpool where he worked as a docker for approximately 3 days before ingratiating himself with the trade union movement and moving to London to destroy the Labour party from within. In his quest he recruited to the cause a handy bearded idiot he met in an Islington church hall meeting where he was protesting, demanding the extending of employment rights and pension provisions to the cats and dogs of social care workers, as they were part of the struggle too.
Through this career as an undercover Tory, Len (real name Bartholomew De Pfeffel Ponsomby-Smythe) had to be repeatedly reigned in by his handlers for over-egging the whole working class thing to a degree that it was becoming a completely absurd and ridiculous caricature that risked blowing his cover
Agreed. (from Kelvin)
So do you think Starmer will propose to provide free broadband? Of course he won't, because he refuses to challenge the one thing that obstructs the possibility of all these common sense policies whiich would solve a lot/most of our problems. Why won't he challenge it? Because he's not the champion of the people who would benefit (all of us), but primarily the representative of those who benefit from the currrent system.
Corbyn for all his faults at least gave a clear indication that he would challenge the system, and people believed him. Up against unassailable establishment opposition he failed, but the hope/ambition of his supporters hasn't gone away, and Starmer harnessed that to win the leadership. Now he needs to follow through on those promises or his own leadership will fail just like the failed establishment centrists before him.
