If anyone to the left of Starmer became leader, they’d go into overdrive.
Isn't that what people who voted Labour wanted though - a move to the left?
They've lost support to Greens and need to get those people back on side. But maybe those voting Green now know they're a long way from Government so may return to Labour at a GE.
Don't go after the Reform vote, you'll never win those over.
Don't go after the Reform vote, you'll never win those over.
If you want to, at some point, get back into some sort of EU agreement, you're going to have to. You'll need to convince some former leave voters to vote re-join.
Labour has delivered on simething like 20 manifesto pledges and made some bloody awful cockups. The appalling comms have left the focus on the cockups and not the stuff they've delivered.
I've said this repeatedly, but as someone who's spent a long time working in comms, it's absolutely ridiculous that even after 2 years in office, they are still getting their comms so catastrophically wrong. They really are truly appalling.
I suspect that they've actually had some pretty good comms people (they've been through a good few) who simply haven't been allowed to do their job properly because of the timidity and control-freekery of Starmer and those around him. That's what needs to change. I have zero confidence that it will.
Unfortunately I doubt anything will. If Starmer stays (and I can't actually see anyone unseating him, despite the noise) then rather than take this as the wake up call he needs, I think they'll pretend none of this ever happened and it'll be business as usual until the inevitable day of reckoning. Unfortunately doing that will just hold the door open for Farage
Isn't that what people who voted Labour wanted though - a move to the left?
If anyone thinks that a change of leader at the top of the Labour Party will automatically mean a shift leftwards, they've not been paying attention. There's more chance of the complete opposite happening.
If Starmer stays (and I can't actually see anyone unseating him, despite the noise)
according to @dazh, he's not very good at politics, but this morning he's just said: I'm not resigning, so if you want me out, then trigger a leadership challenge. Which is a pretty slick move to force the hand of the people in the party to either put up or shut up.
First time I've seen him act with any sort of chutzpah.
There's more chance of the complete opposite happening.
This is what I don't get... we have a number of very vocal left wing MPs calling for Starmer to go right now... and if they get their way they'll likely get Streeting as PM, and there is no way he'll shift policy to the left. He's a much better communicator than Starmer... but those left wing MPs really won't get what they want policy wise. At this point they'd be better off continuing to make their points about where policy should change, rather than making it about who is leader... they should be holding fire on that 'till we are closer to a general election and they have someone in mind and ready to take the top job. When you make it personal, you absolutely have to have a person ready to back to take over.
Watching the tories and now labour being destroyed in real time is extremely satisfying and long overdue. It’s impossible for them to change as they would have to admit it’s their failed ideology that’s led us here, they were 20th century parties and are no longer fit for purpose.
Watching the tories and now labour being destroyed in real time is extremely satisfying.
Right up until you take a look at whats going to replace them, then there's very little satisfaction to be had
That’s fair but I can’t see reform or the greens lasting. I think after a bit of a chaotic few years we’ll see two new main parties emerge that actually represent the interests of left and right. I’m an optimistic kind of guy though.
they were 20th century parties and are no longer fit for purpose.
As opposed to the 19th century party which wants to replace them? Please explain how in any sane universe Reform can be described as a 'modern' party. Almost everything they want harks back to a time where mega-rich oligarchs ruled supreme, where society and culture was a monotonous authoritarian wasteland of conformity and deference, where the class system was entrenched and there was almost no form of welfare state or support for working people. Deranged!
I’m not here to defend Reform, they suck.
So... "none of the above"... a sentiment no doubt shared by many... but then what?
I’m not here to defend Reform, they suck.
Well if you're talking about the green party I have more sympathy with that, I'm a member after all. But honestly if you think the greens are going to replace Labour or the Tories I think you're deluded. The greens primary purpose (IMO) is to keep the Labour party honest and prevent it from giving in to the reactionary instincts of it's rightwing careerists. At the very most they may play a part in a coalition. More likely though that the green party will help to hand power to Reform. My strong preference would be for Labour and the Greens to sit down and sort out a non-aggression pact so they don't form a circular shooting squad. It's another reason Burnham is the best choice because he's a lot less tribal than the rest of the potential leaders. Big question though is whether Polanski can reign in his ego and bring himself to speak to Labour? At the moment he's looking a bit like Jo Swinson.
I think I'm going to stick a tenner on Milliband part 2 . The Labour Party really are that daft. The bookies presently have him at 12/1, Andy Burnham is 2/1, Rayner 4/1 and Streeting 5/1
Millipede is going to be an even bigger failure. I would give others a chance instead.
So... "none of the above"... a sentiment no doubt shared by many... but then what?
After a chaotic few years I think we’ll see new parties emerging, old party loyalties are over. I’m not even sure that the traditional ideas of left/right are even relevant anymore.
I could see a party that’s slightly left of centre economically and moderately right of centre socially doing extremely well. Most of the polling, surveys etc seem to suggest that’s where the average British voters sits and anecdotally that seems about right too.
With ministers resigning, it looks like Starmer is unlikely to be PM by the end of the year anyway. More (and more obvious) stuff needed to be front loaded into these first two years. Blame the obvious media bias. Blame the short termism of the public. Blame the party comms team. But the whole "10 years to make a difference" line isn't working, and won't work. Something here and now is needed. Announcing bringing our water back under full public control feels like something that might have wide appeal and impact... but even with this the press and public alike will want it to be instant, and will still moan when it fixes very little at speed. There are no quick fixes. People want quick fixes.
Jess Phillips has resigned as minister now.
surprised by that one frankly, makes me think someone is going throw their hat in the ring for a leadership challenge.
Slow hand clap everybody, excellent work.
I personally like Jess Phillips but I wasn't even aware she was a minister.
Someone else, who nobody has ever heard of, has also just resigned.
This is hardly Geoffrey Howe quietly assassinating Thacher, is it? Which I suppose is a very labour way of doing things, with none of the bloody ruthlessness of the way the Tories do it. They all seem to really enjoy it, probably far too much.
Ian Dunts take on it, which is probably about right. Its going to get messy.....
I like jess phillips but I also don't think having a go for not reducing privacy is a good look a party or someone resigning.
I agree with a lot of her points but on some of them I think she would have been better served keeping her mouth shut
Someone else, who nobody has ever heard of, has also just resigned.
All will become clear if more and more senior cabinet ministers start joining Phillips, or Streeting breaks cover I guess.
A right mess & so much back tracking on various policies, along with a total lack of ability to enthuse anyone let alone the baying public and right wing media has done for him, no matter how much good he may or may not have done in the background but is there anyone better out there to replace him?
but is there anyone better out there to replace him?
Everyone in the Labour Party knows there is, but he won't be on any candidate list at present as he's not an MP.
So whoever ends up with the poisoned chalice will be doomed from the off as they will just be everyones Plan B and nobodies favorite.
That's obviously exactly whats going to happen. My Money (literally) is on them ending up with Ed Milliband by mistake, just like last time, and nobody being happy about it at a ll and the grumbling and plotting starting from day 1.
The labour party really is shit at choosing leaders
Streeting is a weasel and would do worse than starmer, Burnham with Rayner as 2nd is the only possible option I can see
The labour party really is shit at choosing leaders
My forecast: Streeting (if he's got the balls) will kick it off, and want to get in quick before Burnham can get a seat. The soft left will scream foul play and kick off telling anyone who'll listen that its a plot to keep them from power. Corbyn will form a breakaway party (oh no, wait...) The knives will come out and it'll be a bloodbath.
Chris Mason will come in his trousers live on the six o'clock news
The sensible thing here is for Starmer to announce a timetable that gives Burnham enough time to get his shit together and become an MP then put it to a leadership contest.
the chances of sensible happening are slim to none
Yeah, Streeting to do the Michael Heseltine role, with the same result, Burnham to be kept out of it at all costs (purely out of spite), Rayner withdrawing from the contest as she can't be arsed with the hassle and after lots of vicious and nasty factional infighting it will ending up being Ed Milliband again, because.... Union Block Vote
Look forward to yet more 'he can't even eat a bacon butty and his dads a traitor' fun and games.
The sensible thing here is for Starmer to announce a timetable that gives Burnham enough time to get his shit together and become an MP then put it to a leadership contest.
He's blocked Burnham once - zero chance he's going to hand him the keys to No.10 without a fight.
The only way Streeting would get in is if he was uncontested and the PLP don't need to go to the wider party
Burnham not being an MP scuppers his chances - realistically is the PLP going to faff around waiting for a by-election which there is no certainly of winning with a lame duck PM in place or Lammy as interim
I reckon someone slightly below the eyeline at the moment like Darren Jones will come through
Chris Mason will come in his trousers live on the six o'clock news 🤣
🤣
The labour party really is shit at choosing leaders
It's literally because they're all too afraid to actually enact proper change.
Leaders are a product of being stuck between the financiers and serving the public - it leaves them with a platform to literally talk about nothing useful.
Who's got the balls to challenge the status-quo and pull it off?
Trying to fix the embers of Thatcherism is tough - you've got to trace where we have gone wrong as a country - and that's where migrants have become the useful targets, rather than the economic model which is a power-house of control over government.
The money markets will keep punishing uncertainty, which will just increase government costs of borrowing for no benefit. It isn't as though the world is an otherwise stable place; we're at an 18-year high today
Rayner withdrawing from the contest as she can't be arsed with the hassle...
...of deciding which house to live in when number 10 is added to her choices. You can see the sketch-writers warming up already.
Burnham not being an MP scuppers his chances - realistically is the PLP going to faff around waiting for a by-election which there is no certainly of winning with a lame duck PM in place or Lammy as interim
He could stand in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry or in Aberdeen South. 😂
You can see the sketch-writers warming up already.
The amount of abuse that she gets anyway is pretty ridiculous. The level of good old-fashioned snobbery, misogyny and just general nastiness she elicits from the right wing press is horrible. Not that she seems to care. The underlying message couldn't be more obvious... What is the likes of you doing here in a place like Westminster? You should have stayed on your shitty northern council estate, you gobby little slapper! How dare you get ideas above your station!
And the more they try to dress it up and justify it, the more obvious their vile attitudes become
If she ran for PM, they'd ratchet all that shit up into overdrive
Burnham not being an MP scuppers his chances - realistically is the PLP going to faff around waiting for a by-election which there is no certainly of winning with a lame duck PM in place or Lammy as interim
This is my concern - is there any Labour seat currently safe enough for Burnham to risk it? Given how the Starmer phobia is being exploited, there's a significant risk of the MP and new Manchester mayor being Green and/or turquoise
This is my concern - is there any Labour seat currently safe enough for Burnham to risk it?
On the BBC radio news as I drove home, Burnham is in London today to have talks with a Labour MP in a safe London seat to see when/if they are going to 'retire', so he can get into Parliament soon.
I wonder who the Green Party would line up for that by-election battle?
You can see the sketch-writers warming up already.
The amount of abuse that she gets anyway is pretty ridiculous. The level of good old-fashioned snobbery, misogyny and just general nastiness she elicits from the right wing press is horrible. Not that she seems to care. The underlying message couldn't be more obvious... What is the likes of you doing here in a place like Westminster? You should have stayed on your shitty northern council estate, you gobby little slapper! How dare you get ideas above your station!
And the more they try to dress it up and justify it, the more obvious their vile attitudes become
If she ran for PM, they'd ratchet all that shit up into overdrive
OMG remember all that Basic Instinct stuff they spewed.
I wonder who the Green Party would line up for that by-election battle?
And would Reform put forward Goodwin again or try to find someone even less electable to "accidently" throw it.
I wonder who the Green Party would line up for that by-election battle?
It would have to be Polanski, surely?
So... "none of the above"... a sentiment no doubt shared by many... but then what?
After a chaotic few years I think we’ll see new parties emerging, old party loyalties are over. I’m not even sure that the traditional ideas of left/right are even relevant anymore.
I could see a party that’s slightly left of centre economically and moderately right of centre socially doing extremely well. Most of the polling, surveys etc seem to suggest that’s where the average British voters sits and anecdotally that seems about right too.
Isn't that the Lib Dems ?
I think the whole country needs a proper wake up call and realise that we live in a global world and have many many external constraints we can't ignore. Politicians can't wave a magic wand and make everything better (and part of the problem here is that people have different ideas as to what better looks like).
I think the wake up call is coming, unfortunately it's likely to be a Reform government.
As for Starmer , he needs to sort out his coms and be more bullish about owning his decisions and not poop himself after every opinion poll. WFA is a good example, it was the right thing to do, once committed he should have stuck to his guns.
WFA is a good example, it was the right thing to do, once committed he should have stuck to his guns.
WFA was the right idea.
The execution was awful. It disadvantaged the most disadvantaged, despite the Government's own risk assessment, hence the U-turn
Personally I like the idea of a successful and popular Labour mayor from one of the country's biggest cities transferring over to the top job. I can't imagine that he wouldn't be anything other than as successful as Prime Minister, as he has been as Mayor of London
(and part of the problem here is that people have different ideas as to what better looks like)
Absolutely. Calling for “change” (as Labour promised) suggested one thing to one person, another thing to others. An election winning strategy maybe, but it doesn’t build consensus… and we are in a media and social media led world that actively seeks to destroy any consensus.
