Burnham not being an MP scuppers his chances - realistically is the PLP going to faff around waiting for a by-election which there is no certainly of winning with a lame duck PM in place or Lammy as interim
He could stand in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry or in Aberdeen South. 😂
given Mr Swinney was saying today that Keir should go, I wondered if he’d offer not to stand a candidate against him to give Burnam a route in. One thing Swinney and Starmer are 100% agreed on is that Farage is the devil, and Burnam is possibly the best hope of keeping him out!
The execution was awful. It disadvantaged the most disadvantaged
If there are honestly pensioners whose lives rely on a £200 handout each winter, then those people probably need a totally different solution.
But this probs inst the time to re-visit what turned out to be essentially (along with Southport) the event that did for Keir I reckon.
Our politics since Brexit has become literally unrecognisable, from 1979 to 2010, we had just 4 PMs - Thatcher, Major, Blair, and Brown, and at the time Brown was seen as a disaster even if historians are busy rehabilitating him. since 2020 we have a worse track record than 1980's era Italy, if Starmer goes, the average will have been - since Johnson; 5 PMs in 5 years. That's not democracy that's a ****ing disaster. Looking at the dredge of the Tories, one literally crashed the economy, one was the only serving PM with an actual criminal record, another resigned after launching a referendum he barely understood. Starmer by comparison, and regardless of your political compass, is about as cautious a centrist* you'll get and by any historical (Labour) standard is merely dull and normal.
Despite the brutal economic conditions, Labour has already shifted the outlook, workers rights, renters rights, actual sensible policies aimed at taxing the very wealthy, investment in green infrastructure, and subtle attempts to rebuild ties with Europe, none of it revolutionary, for sure, and perhaps that's Starmer's problem, with a press apparently addicted to incompetence and performative stupidity.
I get that folks are desperate, but honestly it takes longer than 22 months to change the fortunes of a local football club, let alone a country that was on its knees after 14 years of Tory. - Who are now (as of last night's soundbite), unbelievably trying to present themselves as the answer to the 'chaos' of Labour.
* reading the online press last night, Starmer was variously described as (simultaneously presumably) authoritarian, radical, conservative, elite, and socialist.
none of it revolutionary, for sure, and perhaps that's Starmer's problem,
That's exactly the problem A big enough majority to do what he wants but all he does is tinker around the edges which sort of suggests that is what he wants.
all he does is tinker around the edges
If you're hoping for 'exciting' politics, then just wait a few years and you'll get revolutionary. Probs not in the way you're hoping for, but dull steady progress over the last couple of years (the best kind of progress) will seem like an oasis of clam adult behavior.
Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of unserious politicians, but it seems I'm in the minority.
Just reading @nickc post above, it seems to me what would help is a change of press/media and the like. 'Somehow' (and I have no practical suggestions) get rid of elements of the baying pack that spends all its time hounding politicians, and let them get on with doing their jobs, despite their human foibles. Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes. OK, some scrutiny and challenge for sure, but what we get nowadays is a pile-on, which just grows arms and legs.
The execution was awful. It disadvantaged the most disadvantaged
If there are honestly pensioners whose lives rely on a £200 handout each winter, then those people probably need a totally different solution.
You are Keir Starmer and it was a totally self-inflicted fiasco.
Labour's "totally different solution"; we'll write to the impoverished, at least they can burn the letters to keep warm
An additional 50,000 pensioners will be living in relative poverty next year as a result of cuts to the winter fuel payment, the government's own estimates have revealed.
No gateway benefits, no WFP. He knew that 120,000 pensioners weren't claiming a gateway benefit and so weren't entitled to WFP
In her letter, Kendall said the work and pensions department had written to 120,000 pensioners to encourage them to claim the pension credit to which they may be entitled.
But this probs inst the time to re-visit what turned out to be essentially (along with Southport) the event that did for Keir I reckon.
It absolutely is the time. Learn the lessons before you continue because,
‘If we don’t get this right, our country will go down a very dark path’ Sir Keir Starmer two days ago
Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes. OK, some scrutiny and challenge for sure, but what we get nowadays is a pile-on, which just grows arms and legs.
🤔
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80l9lde5yjo
Just reading @nickc post above, it seems to me what would help is a change of press/media and the like. 'Somehow' (and I have no practical suggestions) get rid of elements of the baying pack that spends all its time hounding politicians, and let them get on with doing their jobs, despite their human foibles. Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes. OK, some scrutiny and challenge for sure, but what we get nowadays is a pile-on, which just grows arms and legs.
It feels to me as though the media - including BBC and ITV - seem to be generating clicks/income by hyping up the justified pressure on Starmer and driving the story towards a "crisis" rather than reporting facts to determine whether there is actually a crisis. There's an argument they did similar to account to the Tories as well.
The media is not there to create the news, it's there to report the news. We have a government elected by our flawed democratic system and we have flawed democratic processes to change it. The media cannot be allowed to "push" for those changes under the pretext of reporting.
Especially while ignoring the Habib/Farage/Johnson bribery story.
If the seemingly unavoidable fall of Starmer leads swiftly to Farage as PM. This whole debacle smells of Biden, Harris and the orange one.
Sorry this seems a little harsh, but I genuinely helpless, in this countries slide towards Reform.
including BBC and ITV
Who still seem to be mostly re-reporting what the papers say... despite far more people watching TV news than reading newspapers.
On WFP... I'm all for universal benefits where they make sense... but for many pensioners WFP was just a boost to their holiday funds that was arbitrarily linked to the weather. Brown introduced them to paper over the cracks, it should be possible to do away with them completely if/when we're looking after the less well off pensioners properly.
Just reading @nickc post above, it seems to me what would help is a change of press/media and the like. 'Somehow' (and I have no practical suggestions) get rid of elements of the baying pack that spends all its time hounding politicians, and let them get on with doing their jobs, despite their human foibles. Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes. OK, some scrutiny and challenge for sure, but what we get nowadays is a pile-on, which just grows arms and legs.
I think it’s part of the way they have to use click bait to sell advertisements to fund themselves.
I unfortunately think the ‘news’ is now just purely for entertainment as opposed to actually being news anymore(although news having a bias isn’t exactly new).
More clicks and engagement to sell advertising, you’ve only got to look at the usual cyclist crap that does the rounds once a week in one of the papers.
Someone on Bluesky summed it up very neatly, I thought - this government are so worried about losing the next election, they forgot they won the last one.
The fundamental problem for 30-40 years is that no government looks beyond the election cycle, or for long term good.
I get that folks are desperate, but honestly it takes longer than 22 months to change the fortunes of a local football club, let alone a country that was on its knees after 14 years of Tory. - Who are now (as of last night's soundbite), unbelievably trying to present themselves as the answer to the 'chaos' of Labour.
Labour got the NHS up and running in 6 months when we were in a bad place.
6 months? Not really. Beveridge report was 1942? Health insurance cover was increased incrementally. The final big push was 1948? So, 6 years. Still rapid mind you.
From formal announcement.
Not really. Beveridge report was 1942?
Yes Labour had put together a clear strategy which they were then able to start work on immediately. Not just NHS but also council housing which the tories then carried on competing with Labour on who could build the most. The results turned out...mixed especially with the incentive to tear down vs repair and what turned out to be poor quality and badly designed estates. However most of those failures were down to trying new ideas and materials with the best of intentions its just the theory didnt match reality and unforeseen consequences came into play.
Whereas the current government at best you could say they came in with a plan to come up with a plan and at worse that their only plan was to defeat the left.
Streeting has broken cover. Apparently he’s going to resign tomorrow and trigger the leadership challenge. He won’t do so today as it’s the Kings Speech.
I’ve just had a look and his odds have gone from 2/1 yesterday to 4/1 and the 12/1 odds I got on my Milliband bet yesterday have shortened to 5/1.
They're actually going to do it. They’re going to accidentally vote the wrong Milliband in as leader for the second time.
Streeting looks like exactly the sort of smarmy, greasy PPE git that we really don't want.
Worse than starmer and an annoying shit too
Yes Labour had put together a clear strategy which they were then able to start work on immediately.
Labour majority 1945? Took a year to sort the legislation (as quick as can be), and then another 2 years to implement? All mightily impressive, but this “6 months” claim belies the truth that little of substance happens that fast.
6 months? Not really. Beveridge report was 1942? Health insurance cover was increased incrementally. The final big push was 1948? So, 6 years. Still rapid mind you.
I’m still sticking by the 6 months 😀,you can do reports and not actually implement anything.
Anyway you’ve got to give it to Bevan, he had a vision for a free health service available for all and he delivered it.
Who on earth is advising Streeting? Starmer has been a huge disappointment and it's time for him to go if Labour has any chance at the next election but the thought that their chances will improve if Streeting takes over is insane!
What labour definitely need is more right wing, city centric drone. That will bring the voters flooding back, ffs.
They’re going to accidentally vote the wrong Milliband in as leader for the second time.
I’d be very happy with Miliband stopping Streeting, being PM for the next few years, and then someone else fighting the next general election.
May as well call an election so Fartage can get on with making life worse for the people who vote for him.
Took a year to sort the legislation (as quick as can be), and then another 2 years to implement?
Ermmm yes getting legislation passed is starting immediately. Just think if the same had been done with adult social care in this parliament. We could have started seeing implementation now and, hopefully, start seeing the results prior to the next GE especially around the NHS.
I know its the mantra of the, quickly vanishing, Starmerites that we shouldnt expect change fast but thats the entire point. It needs starting early to get results by the next GE (even if not sufficient enough to win the election it could still be enough to make it too hard to drop).
Labour got the NHS up and running in 6 months when we were in a bad place.
It was the end of the largest conflict the world has ever seen and huge swathes Britain was a literal bombsite, and hundreds of thousands of people needed work to transition into from being drafted into the military We don't have need for that today.
I don't want revolutionary politics and frankly, neither do you. I don't want a PM on the telly every night announcing some new drastic restructuring of Police or the Army or the NHS, I want well thought through sensible adjustments that are budgeted and have a plan to implement them, and have interim reviews and long term goals. I want politics to be the dull stuff on the news every night, like when Major would come onto the telly and we'd all turn off the news 'cause it was boring.
I don't want to see Chris Mason running about the place with his hair on fire. I don't want politics as a grift or entertainment.
What labour definitely need is more right wing, city centric drone. That will bring the voters flooding back, ffs.
Chances are Streeting is toast next election. Was damn close this time and I think it was a bit of a surprise vs next time where I think tactical voting will come in.
So guess he might as well gamble all now. Obviously this is very different from what "labour needs".
What labour definitely need is more right wing, city centric drone. That will bring the voters flooding back, ffs.
Chances are Streeting is toast next election. Was damn close this time and I think it was a bit of a surprise vs next time where I think tactical voting will come in.
So guess he might as well gamble all now. Obviously this is very different from what "labour needs".
Surely his team will have done some research in to his popularity amongst voters? The only people I know who'd even give him a chance would prefer Starmer to stay!
6 months? Not really. Beveridge report was 1942? Health insurance cover was increased incrementally. The final big push was 1948? So, 6 years. Still rapid mind you.
It was based on the experience and systems of WW2.
"Common folk" had their first experience of free dental and health care during their military service.
Winston Churchill decided that the country couldn't afford free healthcare for everyone post-war, which was one reason that he wasn't re-elected.
Attlee, Churchill's deputy PM in the wartime coalition, was seen as more likely to introduce social reform and won a landslide in 1945.
By the 1950 GE, the Government had run out of ideas; an internal split over austerity forced a snap election in 1951 and Labour was out.
People will vote for change if the government isn't working out for them, regardless of a record of demonstrated benefits or the likely consequences. See Brexit, Trump, etc.
Starmer needs to stop talking and act boldly.
Surely his team will have done some research in to his popularity amongst voters?
Doesnt mean he will listen to them plus their research might also include the line "still your best chance of being PM".
Obviously making predictions about politics even in the short term is risky and by 2029 stand a good chance of looking really stupid looking back but I think the likelihood is Starmer is on his way out and wont last to the next GE. At best I would give him to 28 so the replacement can start making an impact.
I think his team will have done the research and made it clear he will lose to Burnham and possibly Rayner (if she sorts the taxes out) and so if he is going to gamble the sooner the better.
Given the self belief required for this job he probably does believe he would then be able to turn things round and win the GE.
Took a year to sort the legislation (as quick as can be), and then another 2 years to implement?
Ermmm yes getting legislation passed is starting immediately. Just think if the same had been done with adult social care in this parliament. We could have started seeing implementation now and, hopefully, start seeing the results prior to the next GE especially around the NHS.
There isn't a politically viable way to fix adult social care. It's either very expensive, involves importing lots of low paid workers, or forced euthanasia. A big part of the current situation is that voters want easy solutions when none exist and always want someone else to pay for it.
If you're hoping for 'exciting' politics,
I am not after excitement - I am after bold, progressive and aggressive solutions. Labour should be doing the right type of that, Reform clearly won't be. You seem happy to just let Starmer slowly move along on things that nobody notices, I am not.
Oh great, streeting is going to blow everything up
bumbling Burnham hasnt sorted his shit out yet, so at best itll be Rayner vs Streeting
cant wait! 😳
Streeting holds around a 523 vote majority 😬. That's going to end well.
All this is demonstrating how Labour were actually positioned to do badly in government.
They really have opened the gates to Reform by being utterly useless, and not actually doing a good job when running the country for the majority of people.
What a mess they've made, even of being competent lazy neoliberals - n'mind looking after the vulnerable like they ought to be doing.
At the very least Streeting could destroy his career here which would be a good thing for sure. Doubt he's going to be popular enough.
At the very least Streeting could destroy his career here which would be a good thing for sure. Doubt he's going to be popular enough.
the mandelson links will do that
This time next year we'll likely have a Reform govt...
Once again Labour are falling into all the obvious traps. Get rid of Starmer - vote in whoever, everyone & their dog screams we didn't elect them, call a snap election either Sept/May & low a behold Farage walks out from No 10.
This time next year we'll likely have a Reform govt...
Once again Labour are falling into all the obvious traps. Get rid of Starmer - vote in whoever, everyone & their dog screams we didn't elect them, call a snap election either Sept/May & low a behold Farage walks out from No 10.
I'm not usually a fan of quoting form the art of war, it always seems a bit alpha-male to be comparing everything to medieval warfare. But isn't there something about don't interrupt whilst your opponent is busy making mistakes?
We're not even a week past these elections, 2 Reform councilors it turns out were already dead, 1 was an AI image and didn't exist, several have quit because they didn't actually want to be councilors, and one in Doncaster demanded an investigations into UFO's.
All Labour had to do, was sit back, let Reform expose themselves as a bunch of incompetent idiots, find or generate some good news and wait for the "I'd never vote for Starmer" loudmouths to realize that the Reform councilor they voted for instead isn't even showing up let alone getting anything done.
Have they such short memories that they've forgotten what happened after the Tory's deposed their boring and unpopular Cameron (the takeaway should not be "won the subsequent 2 GE's")?
All Labour had to do, was sit back, let Reform expose themselves as a bunch of incompetent idiots, find or generate some good news and wait for the "I'd never vote for Starmer" loudmouths to realize that the Reform councilor they voted for instead isn't even showing up let alone getting anything done.
That could have happened if it wasn't for the loony left faction of the party going on some moral crusade instead of falling into line and getting on with their jobs.
That could have happened if it wasn't for the loony left faction of the party going on some moral crusade instead of falling into line and getting on with their jobs.
What ****ing bollocks. Its the right wing of labour doing what they do best and destroying it.
What ****ing bollocks. Its the right wing of labour doing what they do best and destroying it.
"It" is whatever anyone want's it to be. For better or worse recent History shows the only Labour governments that win elections are the neoliberal types. You can point to all the data showing Corbyn had more support from members, or actually won more votes in a pre-Reform world. but He still didn't actually win.
Did they learn nothing from watching the Tory's and Brexit (or even just the Corbyn era Labour) . Tearing the party apart in search of hard line perfection whilst purging all the competent career politician centrists who actually stood a chance of getting anything done doesn't end well.
Then again, if the hard liners want to follow the Tory's lead, then Your Party could well be the next Reform. Then we can all bang on about how the country needs Your Party, Labour can be run by someone completely unelectable, neither will win and the Tory's can come back with a Starmer sized landslide and we can all shout into our pints of Boddingtons back in Manchester about what we would do if only we had won an election.
We're not heading for socialist utopia, we're heading for our Liz Truss moment, just remember there's a May and a Johnson first so things can only get shitter from here on out until we pick a Sunak (the vaguely competent one) but by that point everyone will be completely fed up and they'll lose their seat too.
I don’t see any way back for labour. A spectacularly unpopular PM, a complete lack of talent to replace him, a lack of ideas, bleeding support to their left and right and most MPs set to lose their seats at the next election.
They could try and move left to reclaim some green voters and lose even more to reform or move right to reclaim reform voters and lose even more to the greens.
Surely at this point it’s not how do we win the next election, it’s how do we even continue to exist after the next election.
I don’t see any way back for labour.
I think I agree with you on this.
