It's become increasingly obvious in recent weeks that even if the Dalai Lama was PM, MSM would just enjoy the challenge of undermining him and stoking talk of a leadership challenge or early election.
Labour have dropped some appalling clangers that have rightly overshadowed the implentation of many key manifesto pledges, but the media seem desperate to boost clicks by trying to create crises, and that will cripple any successor
IMHO If he/labour want to survive now is the time to start implementing some of the Reform immigration policies.
This would be a fkn terrible idea for reasons which are barely worth arguing. The only chance labour have of turning things round is to focus on bread and butter issues which are important to working people and start putting money back in their pockets. The cost of living, the NHS, schools, crime, training + jobs for young people etc are all higher up the list than immigration for the vast majority. Reform have almost no answers on any of these so let them be the single issue party while Labour focus on the important stuff.
Course it would,but they are going to be fighting against 3 years of ‘the Boats’ they need to unfortunately do some performance theatre to make reform unnecessary as you say they are a single issue party and if you dilute the single issue they have then they have no purpose.
Uh huh? Those are what exactly?
Also bearing in mind that immigration has already been reduced from its peak under Johnson what do you see the reform approach adding on top?
Also given the overlap between Johnsons cabinet ministers and reform mps exactly why should we be trusting them to do a good job?
Absolutely nothing of real use,but theatre is needed,come that voting day that actually counts facts won’t be saving Labour unless they’ve really turned it around and people aren’t looking for the easy answer that Reform will be whispering in their ears for the next 3 years.
if you dilute the single issue they have then they have no purpose
This is exactly what Labour have been trying to do. It hasn’t worked so far. I don’t see why Labour going further down the anti-asylum-seekers and anti-migrant-workers and students path will turn voters away from Reform… because it’s not about numbers, it’s about directing blame and hate towards these groups… even if numbers are reduced. And even if Labour were prepared to make us an international pariah by refusing all asylum, and wreck our economy, our services and our education sectors by stopping all immigration… there’s still the matter of those living here who talk with accents, or have different coloured skin, or follow non-Christian religions… there will always be a target for Reform to use to recruit support.
At 20:30, there are reported to be 60+ Labour MPs demanding his resignation, 4 resignations from minor roles. I cant see him lasting the week. His speech today was very poor. He's working class you know! If he is fighting his way to regain control, he isnt going about it very well. Clearly he has poor advisors, his speech was pretty awful, with a packed room of devotees, clapping whenever he opened his mouth. The BBC says there were few Ministers there, which maybe shows they dont want to back a sinking ship.
At 20:30, there are reported to be 60+ Labour MPs demanding his resignation, 4 resignations from minor roles. I cant see him lasting the week
The only thing which might keep in place is that quite a lot seem to want Burnham so need to parachute him into a safe seat if there is such a thing. Be a very strong tactical vote opportunity.
That or stick him in the Lords which would be funny as **** and technically allowed.
LOL Streeting is making his move. Mahmood, Cooper and Lammy apparently behind him. What a ****! He’d rather have two years as PM than Labour win the next election. That in a nutshell is where the right wing of the Labour Party are coming from. I’m actually hoping Starmer tells them all to f-off and tries to hang on.
Streeting was Mandelsons project aye? Is he deluded, stupid, or both?
Labour is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Labour wants to survive the next election they really need to make some major improvement that people can feel almost immediately. The problem with Labour now is over promised and under delivered. They really can't blame the previous govt etc because voters' priority is their pocket. Labour (most parties) seem to give the impression that they have improved "things" a lot, but common people simply don't feel them. Prioritising NHS etc might be very important but if people's pockets are hit hard, no amount of NHS promises etc will help them survive the next election. The reason is that they are not just "selling to the preached" but all. Unless, Labour can get all onboard, they are on the way out. Labour got voted in with a landslide victory, they can be voted out with a landslide loss as well if economy pressure continues.
Surely he's gone this morning?
I can't see his replacement being any better though.
That speech was the final nail in his coffin, it just shows how narcissistic and tone deaf to the feeling of the majority of the country he is right now. He addressed nothing that the people opposing him/Labour are concerned about and just continued to bang the far right drum and blame everyone but himself
That speech was the final nail in his coffin
I listened to it yesterday and thought 'is that it? Is that seriously all you've got?'
I just can't believe that after the optimism a lot of us felt at the end of 14 years of Tory misrule, the Labour Party have managed to so catastrophically **** this up. They didn't have to do much for it to be a considerable upgrade on what went before but they failed in even that.
And just like the Tories before them, they're now going to start a convoluted, self-indulgent leadership contest with all the infighting that entails, which is the last thing the country needs and which everyone will take a suitably dim view of.
Given that Andy Burnham is surely the only candidate that would inspire any confidence and the chance of him becoming leader looks pretty much impossible, who will they end up with? Given their track record, I can see them doing something really really stupid like ending up with Ed Milliband again. They really do appear to be that totally clueless.
I despair! This is all an absolute gift for Farage. By the time this lot are done, they're going to be as dead in the water as the Tories. They're nearly there already. Quite some achievement.
anyone who thinks Burnham would be much of an upgrade is crackers. Streeting would be worse.
We know about your personal opinion of Burnham Uncle Jezza, but you're hardly the target market here as you'd never vote labour anyway.
All the Labour Party give a monkeys about at the moment is the polling, and all that shows that the only person who stands a chance of having a positive impact on things at this stage is Andy Burnham, whether you like it or not.
I don't think there's any way it can happen, and from a purely selfish point of view, we don't want to lose him as he's doing a great job as Manchester Mayor, as his 67% of the vote proved last time out. I think he'd be a fool to even want to be leader of the sinking ship that is the Westminster Labour Party right now.
I think I'm going to stick a tenner on Milliband part 2 . The Labour Party really are that daft. The bookies presently have him at 12/1, Andy Burnham is 2/1, Rayner 4/1 and Streeting 5/1
Hang on binners. Are we talking about the Andy Burnham who said he “would involve Jeremy [Corbyn] in my team from the outset” last time he ran?
Remind me when that was again? 11 years ago IIRC?
There's been an awful lot of water under the bridge since then. Britain in 2015 was a completely different country to the one we live in now. It appears nobody told the Labour Party though.
Anyway... there's a cabinet meeting this morning, nominally to discuss the Iran situation. That's going to be fun! Let's see if he's still there by the end of it?
I've just stuck a bet on Ed MIlliband being next PM
Remind me when that was again? 11 years ago IIRC?
So Corbyn’s policies have changed in the last 11 years. Got it.
WTF do Corbyn's policies (such as they are) have to do with anything? Nothing about Magic Grandad ever changes, going back decades. The world left him behind some time around 1973
I can't think of anyone more irrelevant in a discussion about who's going to be the next PM. He's the eternal irrelevance who rendered the Labour Party irrelevant for so many years 🙄
Starmer is now clearly a dead duck. There is no obvious viable replacement, and Burnham's route in is not guaranteed. If Burnham tried and failed I can't see an option other than a GE. The press are pulling out all Polanskis cock ups while ignoring those from the Tories and Reform.
We're ****ed basically, aren't we?
if you dilute the single issue they have then they have no purpose
This is exactly what Labour have been trying to do. It hasn’t worked so far. I don’t see why Labour going further down the anti-asylum-seekers and anti-migrant-workers and students path will turn voters away from Reform… because it’s not about numbers, it’s about directing blame and hate towards these groups… even if numbers are reduced. And even if Labour were prepared to make us an international pariah by refusing all asylum, and wreck our economy, our services and our education sectors by stopping all immigration… there’s still the matter of those living here who talk with accents, or have different coloured skin, or follow non-Christian religions… there will always be a target for Reform to use to recruit support.
Yep and they aren’t getting anywhere with it and it’s now looking like they are more interested in fighting for the top job as opposed for the good of the country 🙁 .
I’m not suggesting they go full on reform but they they have to play Farage at his own game with better games, yes it’s distasteful but in 3 years time when they are gone and some Reform majority/coalition is actually doing it for real 🙁
Course Reform is a YMMV, 3 years is a long time and there’s plenty of time for things to happen.
We're ****ed basically, aren't we?
We are indeed! Every day this nonsense goes on for brings us closer to the horrible reality of the man-frog stood grinning outside the door of number 10.
That now seems grimly inevitable and is surely the most damning indictment possible on our present political system?
WTF do Corbyn's policies (such as they are) have to do with anything? Nothing about Magic Grandad ever changes, going back decades. The world left him behind some time around 1973
Well apparently they were relevant to Andy Burnham in 2015.
Almost anyone but Streeting. Makes my teeth itch.
What's Gary Lineker up to these days?
Unless it's someones brilliant idea to let Burnham run things from the Lords*, I can't see how he replaces Starmer in the coming months, even if there was a seat available, there's no guarantee he'd win it anyway, despite that, he's still (weirdly) 9/4 at the bookies? Makes no sense.
Rayner would be too divisive, and would get hammered in the papers from day 2 until she is hounded out, even though she'll probably get my vote 4/1 at the bookies, Streeting stands no chance, and is 9/2.
I don't think Starmer can stay on, despite this being clearly "unhelpful" to everyone. Politics in this country has become farcical.
*oh, teh ironing, as the cool kids say.
I’m not suggesting they go full on reform but they they have to play Farage at his own game with better games, yes it’s distasteful but in 3 years time when they are gone and some Reform majority/coalition is actually doing it for real
But the logic there is that you can out Farage Farage to win elections. It doesn't work. Sunak tried with all his "stop the boats" stuff, and he couldn't win back voters from Reform. Starmer has tried by making it harder to come here to work, study, join your family... or to get the right to remain or become a citizen if you're already here. This government have tried blowing smoke up the arse of Reform voters by triumphantly talking up deportations and bigging up one up one out policies... none of it touches the sides. Why? Because many of them believe Farage feels like they do... all the media talk about him being openly racist as a young man has only BOOSTED his party's support. These voters don't believe Starmer is one of them... and they won't believe that anyone else the Labour party puts forward next is either. Especially if they are someone who still talks about young people getting free movement... despite deals on students and young workers being the most obvious low hanging fruit (after actual fruit and other food) for us to grab economically with the EU.
Well apparently they were relevant to Andy Burnham in 2015.
Did you read that on MySpace?
BBC.CO.UK Politics in this country has become farcical.
It has been since that fateful day Dave decided to try and save his own skin by handing the destiny of the country over to the headbangers.
Boris Johnson as PM was the confirmation that all was now lost, then Mad Liz Truss just hammered it home.
I expected so much more from the Labour Party, but maybe its time for everyone to just face the fact that with our present political system, the country is ungovernable.
At the next election it look like the vote in the UK is going to be split 7 ways, and without proportional representation that just isn't going to work.
Strangely, it's probably better for the UK to stick with Starmer than to spiral down the plughole of ever more useless alternatives with the shelf-life of a box of unrefrigerated lettuce.
Starmer needs to stop speaking and do stuff. Start by getting rid of Rachel Reeves, stop bringing in dangerous has-beens and get some expertise onboard
If anyone replaces Keir they are screwed from the start. There will be calls of illegitimacy from all quarters.
FWIW I am largely happy with him getting on with the job. He has done stuff but the communications are awful. The winter fuel policy was right but came with bad timing, no building up to the policy and poorly explained. He has been on the back foot since then.
Fingers crossed he stays and campaigns on much closer EU alignment in a couple of years time.
I think the biggest problem this leadership presents is the fact that if Labour won an overwhelming majority just two years ago, and if it cannot retain it's leadership it demonstrates to the rest of Europe is that the UK govt cannot work, and will not work in the future. The next Labour leader will last until there's an election (maybe) and then Farage might win, but would be forced out pretty sharpish, and then another 2 years....repeat ad infinitum.
If the media and Labour dissenters are willing to throw out a leader after what amounts to an opinion poll, it means that no coming Govt is going to be allowed to anything that isn't 'popular'. So that's the winter fuel allowance forever untouchable, the triple lock, the welfare bill, energy, the NHS anything and everything that might be viewed as politically dangerous or unpopular will see a govt collapse.
I laughed when Johnsosn gutted the Tories of their centerists, It's bizarre to me that having watched that, Labour's reaction appears to be "hold my pint"
campaigns on much closer EU alignment in a couple of years time.
I will make this campiagn forecast for you right now: It's Labour policy to avoid discussion about rejoining EU as far as possible. People have been saying on here for ages now that one of the issues they have with Labour is the fact that they're constantly trying to "win over" Reform and Brexit voters in the midlands and red wall, and ignoring their core vote, because it's is the low key strategy that Labour are using; to try to connect Reform and Farage with how badly Brexit and immigration is going.
Regardless of your own view about brexit, on the doorstep - and the vast vast majority of folks that I speak to canvassing aren't interested in politics at all, it's a settled matter, and they're not interested in having that discussion any time soon.
Starmer has just released a statement saying "I'm going nowhere", so it looks like its put up or shut up time.
They'd have to be out of their tiny minds to have a drawn out leadership contest now, which would immediately dissolve into vicious factional in-fighting. That is at the last thing on earth anyone wants to see now, or what the county needs.
I agree with NickC that the labour government have quietly done some decent things, but why do it so quietly? We know why. So as not to upset Farage and the right wing press. Someone needs to grow a pair and take them head on and give people a proper choice instead of this constant weak and gutless timidity
My money's on Rayner becoming the reluctant PM. Latest reports are that she's doesn't want it (and who can blame her!) and has thrown her weight behind Burnham but if Streeting and his Mandelson-loving acolytes force a contest then she'll have to stand. I suppose Miliband is the other option but I doubt that will go down well and he may not have enough of the membership behind him to beat Streeting. Maybe either could do it as interim while Burham gets himself into parliament?
Also what price whoever ends up as PM going for broke and using their majority to railroad through electoral reform to cut Reform off at the knees? It would be a very high risk option without a referendum but would be effective. You can imagine the howls of outrage from the right wing.
With Starmer now digging his heels in even more, in spite of the majority of the country and a good number of his cabinet hating him, explain to a not very politically clued up person - at what point does it develop into such a shitshow and what actual triggers would be required for the encumbent government to collapse and trigger a GE?
Someone needs to grow a pair and take them head on and give people a proper choice instead of this constant weak and gutless timidity
I think the Winter Fuel allowance cock-up has a huge amount of influence here. It was massively undersold, there's proper political reasoning for getting rid off it, and I think they were blindsided by how badly it went. I think the press has smelt blood and from that moment on, everything has been fair game, and even if you think Starmer's a dull ****er (and I wouldn't disagree with that view) the levels of vitriol far far outweigh anything that this govt have actually done. When even Major comes out and says "now then fellas" somethings gone badly awry.
Let's see what happens by the end of the day.
Starmer is a limpet but hanging on to him is a total liability as sign-posted from the beginning. (Yes we knew this.)
Labour have to do such a radical change to survive, they have to literally do an about-turn. The sooner they do it the better.
Maybe in future (if) Labour can come to power in terms of fixing stuff with a plan rather than applying absolute brainless election strategies that can never work in this environment.
Fix society properly with big investment or die against the backdrop of failed right-wing pressure, and anti-immigration rhetoric.
(Oooh the bond market are getting ruffled. Silence them. Work for public purpose instead. The noise about long-term gilts is noise. There is no operational condition that says that they have to issue 30 year gilts - it's just media noise to create Telegraph bullet points.)
Go now and have a chance.
With Starmer now digging his heels in, in spite of the majority of the country and a good number of his cabinet hating him
Can't speak for the cabinet, but honestly, most folks, and I understand that this might be viewed with some chin stroking, on the doorstep, don't think he's that bad, and certainly don't hate him. the strongest opinion most folks have is that they think he's dull.
Someone needs to grow a pair and take them head on and give people a proper choice instead of this constant weak and gutless timidity
I think the Winter Fuel allowance cock-up has a huge amount of influence here. It was massively undersold, there's proper political reasoning for getting rid off it, and I think they were blindsided by how badly it went. I think the press has smelt blood and from that moment on, everything has been fair game, and even if you think Starmer's a dull ****er (and I wouldn't disagree with that view) the levels of vitriol far far outweigh anything that this govt have actually done. When even Major comes out and says "now then fellas" somethings gone badly awry.
It's Labour not being Labour that has caused the discourse.
Wasting time on WFA was hardly the first thing that we should be doing. Government's can't save money. There is no way to save operationally.
The problem was they didn't come to governance with a plan, and a shit late budget - and an attitude of being stuck due to whatever nonsense the Tories had left behind.
They have made zero attempt to fix material conditions.
Anyone who was looking at society knew we need change and not excuses.
Someone needs to grow a pair and take them head on and give people a proper choice
What does a proper choice look like? I would suggest:
1. Rejoining the customs union and/or single market.
2. Caps on energy and rent prices
3. Windfall taxes on oil companies benefitting from the Iran war.
4. Close every tax loophole used by the mega rich to avoid paying the same proportion of tax on their wealth as everyone else does.
5. Taking failing utilities into public control (not ownership)
6. Electoral reform
7. Massive boost in spending for the NHS and Schools
8. Increasing the lower tax threshold to 15k.
I don't think there's any way it can happen, and from a purely selfish point of view, we don't want to lose him as he's doing a great job as Manchester Mayor, as his 67% of the vote proved last time out.
The recent local elections result though suggest it might not be so rosy in future.
Whilst he did do better than the local councillors in 24 (with less of a drop in share) they were still over 50% compared to this round.
Someone needs to grow a pair and take them head on and give people a proper choice
What does a proper choice look like? I would suggest:
1. Rejoining the customs union and/or single market.
2. Caps on energy and rent prices
3. Windfall taxes on oil companies benefitting from the Iran war.
4. Close every tax loophole used by the mega rich to avoid paying the same proportion of tax on their wealth as everyone else does.
5. Taking failing utilities into public control (not ownership)
6. Electoral reform
7. Massive boost in spending for the NHS and Schools
8. Increasing the lower tax threshold to 15k.
I've not read their manifesto, but I'd imagine that looks pretty similar to a list of the Greens policies - but they'd chuck in a load of absolute nonsense on top
Starmer has to endure the combined weight of the extreme right wing — media, blue‑party factions, and limited‑company pseudo‑parties — all whipping up the lumpenproletariat to hate this centrist Labour government. If anyone to the left of Starmer became leader, they’d go into overdrive.
I'd add the left to this list of critics.
Oh, and the US Man-child.
If anyone to the left of Starmer became leader, they’d go into overdrive.
Of course they would but thats the entire point of not trying to please them.
Start passing policies which will actually help people in this country vs trying to keep the hard right unpatriotic citizens of nowhere happy.
Strangely, it's probably better for the UK to stick with Starmer than to spiral down the plughole of ever more useless alternatives with the shelf-life of a box of unrefrigerated lettuce.
Starmer needs to stop speaking and do stuff
This is probably the least worse option for the country.
Labour has delivered on simething like 20 manifesto pledges and made some bloody awful cockups. The appalling comms have left the focus on the cockups and not the stuff they've delivered.
They/Starmer need to focus on dropping the austerity and immigration bollocks, taxing the ultra wealthy, investing in public services (borrowing if necessary), delivering on their commitments, taking a stance against Trump/Israel and getting closer to the EU.
All of these would be popular with the electorate. It will put clear ground between Labour and the Tories/Reform. It will move them to a position where a coalition with the Greens and/or LibDems would workable if needed after the next election. It would be good for this government, the Labour party and the country, short, medium and hopefully long term. And they have the majority to do it.
What does a proper choice look like? I would suggest:
1. Rejoining the customs union and/or single market.
2. Caps on energy and rent prices
3. Windfall taxes on oil companies benefitting from the Iran war.
4. Close every tax loophole used by the mega rich to avoid paying the same proportion of tax on their wealth as everyone else does.
5. Taking failing utilities into public control (not ownership)
6. Electoral reform
7. Massive boost in spending for the NHS and Schools
8. Increasing the lower tax threshold to 15k.
1. A rejoin campign would be an instant vote loser, sorry. You'd just replay Brexit all over again. There may be time for that sometime in the future, I don't think it's now. - Certainly not on the doorstep (Gorton and recent local election canvassing)
2. There is one already on energy. The new renters act already limits rent rises as well as getting rid of no fault evictions and fixed term
3. Maybe possible, current estimates is the profit is £37Million, that doesn't do much, if anything, vindictive taxation on a sector that you want to invest in alternative sources of energy, is probs not a great plan.
4. Like VAT on private school fees? Like private plane tax? Like changing the CGT rules? Like changing Non-Dom status? All done
5. Not a priority unless you're Fergal Sharkey. I get this one, but there's more pressing things to sort out first, rather than spend billions on this. I'd prefer stronger regulation and accountability
6. Nope, not going to happen with any party that's possible to get into govt. It's just wishful thinking
7. Already done £6billion on SEND funding, and because of falling school numbers real terms spending has increased, NHS spending has increased by £25 billion
8. You should've led with this, it's a good idea.
edit: for some typos
