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Communist Water did a session for Marc Riley on 6 Music last week
Employers’ NI contributions is a sound way to tax businesses that is difficult to dodge.
No its not. Its very easy to dodge, I gave a good example above which people were recommending should be changed to create an equal playing field.
There are also the other obvious ways to avoid paying taxes based on how much you pay your employees.
As for "Don’t be played." could you be much more ****ing patronising? Like when binners does it its a tad irritating given the low level arguments being deployed.
Of course its the businesses choice but thats why you dont let it be their ****ing choice. He chose an option which is directed correlated with employee pay. He should have just stuck with employee NI and been honest about it. It would have got some of the employer NI loopholes as well.
So Tory leaders nominate Tory supporters for peerages whilst Labour leaders nominate Labour supporters, is that what makes them "different"?
I don't expect you to approve of Badenoch's choice for nomination and I certainly don't either, but despite your apparent extensive research on Toby Young I very much doubt that Badenoch chose him because of his views on women's knockers.
Much more likely is that Badenoch chose him because he is an associate editor of the Spectator and the New Statesman named him as the 44th most influential right-wing figure in British politics.
Yes the whole peerage shenanigans is a total farce as highlighted by Toby Young getting a peerage, and I think most reasonably people can see that.
So perhaps you would like to explain why Keir Starmer has broken the pledge he made when he was desperate to become Labour leader to abolish all this bollox?
Do you think it is because voters love all this shite and he doesn't want to alienate them, or is it because basically he isn't any different to any other conservative prime minister? Which one do you think it is?
Where the reform process is up to (and where it is going):
Reform? We've had plenty of House of Lord's reforms. Is Starmer going to stop this nonsense which sees the likes of Toby Young getting a peerage?
Do you think voters will be satisfied seeing party leaders lackeys or generous party donors getting peerage rather than people being born into the honour? On balance I think I would rather have someone who doesn't owe any party leader a favour, or has bought their peerage.
Everyone knows that reform is not the solution and that abolition and its replacement with an elected upper chamber is.
Oh but Starmer will claim that it is unaffordable or too complicated or difficult or some other shite. The only thing that makes it difficult is that he, or maybe Morgan McSweeney, lacks the will to abolish it.
Abolishing the House of Lords and replacing it with an elected chamber would be a piece of piss. Gordon Brown has done most of the work on the project and if an elected Scottish parliament could be set up and running in a couple of years then I don't see why it would be different for an elected upper chamber in Westminster. They even already have a perfectly suitable building.
Anyway thanks binners for highlighting how insignificant the difference between Labour and the Tories is on the issue of the House of Lords, and how the whole discredited farcical situation continues despite the Tories being kicked out of government.
I believe that right at the top of every voters list of concerns is sorting out the House of Lords. Fixing the NHS, education, housing and other trivial matters pale into insignificance next to this most pressing of issues.
Particularly given that politicians of all parties are presently held in such high public esteem that everyone would be very receptive to the members of Westminster dedicating an enormous amount of Parliamentary time to essentially talk about themselves
No it isn't at the top of every voters list of concerns, what's that got to do with it.......the government can't do more than one thing at a time?
The abolition of the House of Lords and its replacement with an elected upper house will obviously never be at the top of voters list of concerns, there will always be greater concerns, does that mean it should never happen and we are stuck with it for eternity?
Gordon Brown has already done all the work required and the new elected upper house could be up and running as quickly as the Scottish Parliament or the Welsh Assembly or the GLA were.
Anyway well done for defending the continued preservation of a medieval institution which you yourself have exposed as farcical and absurd...... Toby Young as a "Lord"?? FFS
Of course if we had a Tory government in power right now you would not be defending the continued existence of this ridiculous institution. Centrist hypocrisy at its finest 🙂
HoL needs to populated based on public votes, with a system that establishes links to all regions. Regional list system seems the approach to take to me, but getting it right, and accepted, is essential. It’ll take time. That doesn’t mean changes can’t be made in the meantime. Note, any new upper chamber based on elections is still likely to be closely tied to “political parties” and their leaders (and so its members)… in fact, IMHO, mitigating the loss of “cross benchers” will be the hardest bit to get right when creating the legislation needed.
There is zero need for a second chamber anyway. Just abolish it. Nothing needed to replace it
If abolished, there would need to be other checks and balances on executive power. Remember, we have a system where a party can have complete control of the government and the commons on only a third of the public vote. The upper house could “just be abolished”, but a lot of work would be need to done to make sure the result of that wasn’t less rather than more democratic.
He should have just stuck with employee NI and been honest about it
If the idea was to avoid taxing workers then how would directly taxing workers have worked?
At least this way when scummy employers try to use this to trick their employees into thinking they can't afford to give pay rises, most employees will be able to get a new job that pays more easily enough.
He’s lost the voters, now he’s losing his MPs. This is where his downfall starts.
https://labouroutlook.org/2024/12/19/labour-mps-dumbfounded-by-waspi-decision-neil-duncan-jordan-mp/
"the Government has a problem with older people"
We need a government that doesn't put the wants (and I mean wants, not needs) of older people before everything else. That's how we got here. If anyone is put into financial difficulty by the state pension changes (and communication of those changes), they should be helped. The same goes for anyone struggling to heat their home. But paying rich pensioners either compensation or winter fuel payments, right now, as schools are literally crumbling, and NHS services have so many people just being held rather than treated... well, Labour MPs need to be working to aim help at the people who need it, not just everyone who's reached a decent age.
He’s lost the voters, now he’s losing his MPs. This is where his downfall starts.
Yeah, with a majority of a mere 156 seats I bet there are some sleepless nights being had in number 10 about what Neil Duncan-Jordan thinks. Once you've lost someone as well known and influential as that, you're toast!
At least this way when scummy employers try to use this to trick their employees into thinking they can’t afford to give pay rises, most employees will be able to get a new job that pays more easily enough.
On that;
https://www.ft.com/content/8dcadbd2-57a1-4fff-b2e2-9ff2704fe209
And if you ignore the covid rates as the obvious outlier, the. Fastest drop since the financial crisis in ‘09. Prospects are not looking good!
On that;
> https://www.ft.com/content/8dcadbd2-57a1-4fff-b2e2-9ff2704fe209 < And if you ignore the covid rates as the obvious outlier, the. Fastest drop since the financial crisis in ‘09. Prospects are not looking good!
Businesses can say what they want in that survey. Unemployment is still low compared to the historical average, especially low compared to the tory-led unemployment crises of the 80's and 90's.
Vacancies is another useful ONS stat to look at. They have shown some modest falls but are still high overall compared to the historical averages.
So I'd argue the contrary really, there's rarely been a better time to be looking for a new job.
But paying rich pensioners either compensation or winter fuel payments, right now, as schools are literally crumbling, and NHS services have so many people just being held rather than treated… well, Labour MPs need to be working to aim help at the people who need it, not just everyone who’s reached a decent age.
Not sure so many pensioners are rich. The problem with being a pensioner (I discover) is that you have no power to influence your own situation, short of getting a second job at B&Q, while needing to preserve a cushion of money to make your declining years less uncomfortable in a nursing home where you aren't sitting around in your own dirty nappy.
Not sure so many pensioners are rich.
Most are not. The state pension is being increased. Those that need more help should get it.
If the idea was to avoid taxing workers then how would directly taxing workers have worked?
Where did I say that?
I said just be honest about it. Employer NI tax is effectively the same as Employee NI tax but just hidden behind smoke and mirrors.
Well aside from those partners who will be happy that their cushy best of both worlds Private Limited Partnerships stay the same. I am sure none of the new "business" donations which flowed to labour had that in mind.
Not sure so many pensioners are rich.
One in four have a household wealth over £1,000,000
There are plenty of poor ones, but also millions of rich ones.
One in four have a household wealth over £1,000,000
There are plenty of poor ones, but also millions of rich ones.
I find that hard to believe, I must know 50+ pensioners, only two are what I would term well off. Where is that figure from?
It includes that value of the house. I’d say a significant proportion of my friends and acquaintances fall into that category, probably more than a quarter. Probably quite a few of them don’t realise it though.
I find that hard to believe, I must know 50+ pensioners, only two are what I would term well off. Where is that figure from?
It's ONS figures. There is a significant element of interpretation but it's reasonable to put it between 22 and 27%
One in four have a household wealth over £1,000,000
There are plenty of poor ones, but also millions of rich ones.
Seems a lot at face value, but what they don't have is earning potential and what they do have is threat of medical/care bills. That money has to last their whole lives, and is not there waiting to be taxed (again) to fund some government spending spree.
There is zero need for a second chamber anyway. Just abolish it. Nothing needed to replace it
You'll need some sort of organisation that has the ability to properly scrutinise proposed legislation both away from the public (ie press glare) and overt political influence and make suggestions and amendments, and you'll need an organisation that can consider public reporting and make recommendations and influence the commons.
TBH, the Lords may not be the most representative body that ever there was, but that's supposed to be the Commons, and they make enough ****ing stupid decisions more than occasionally enough to make most sane people think that they're either dangerously incompetent or represent an actual threat to the public health
That money has to last their whole lives
For a bit of perspective, that much money is about as much as most people earn (pre-tax) in their entire lifetime. Having to make it "last" for a pensioner is hardly a stretch.
Was on our local news yesterday - totally get the sentiment but if the non-Tory right starts to shatter, divide and conquer will be easier.
Though the Broxtowe Independents leader sounded far more authentic talking about the working man than Farage ever does.
BBC News - Twenty Broxtowe councillors quit Labour over Starmer's leadership - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewxrzq0489o
Wow, I am genuinely shocked by that. 20 councillors out of 26 plus a hundred party members.
And it looks as if this was the catalyst :
They claimed 10 of them had been blocked from standing for Labour at upcoming local elections for Nottinghamshire County Council after questioning the winter fuel police
"I cannot support and will not support another centrist government intent on destroying local democracy and dictating national policy from a high pedestal," he said.
I guess that when Labour were in opposition the intense control freakery of the national leadership was probably more tolerated under the conditions of 14 years of Tory rule, and people were truly desperate for a Labour government.
Perhaps Starmer/McSweeney should have eased off their dictatorial grip on the party once the general election had been won.
I suggested on another thread recently that one of the ways to tackle growing support for Reform was to recognise the disconnection between established parties and voters, and with that in mind make the Labour Party the grassroots movement that it was founded to be.
I didn't think that was likely and this latest development doesn't exactly bode well for Labour. Although on a local level it might also not bode well for Reform, I have no idea.
I think the MPs will be next. Surely a good number of them must be actual Labour MPs and hopefully even a bit progressive so will be no fans of Starmer.
Musk is stealing all the lime-light currently.
Let's get back to Labour competence. Their comms are next-level. (I think this A.I was generated in a crèche.)
The Labour party has apologised for using a soundtrack with “completely inappropriate” lyrics in a promotional TikTok video.
The video features AI-generated animals including a hare dressed as a nurse, a bulldog in a police uniform and a hedgehog wearing dungarees.
Truly God-awful if you've seen the clip.
Polly Toynbee in the Guardian today still has 'hope' based on a different version of Labour reality.
Can you actually imagine a British Prime Minister accusing you of having a FAR RIGHT agenda for wanting government inquiries into horrific rape gangs and the complete ineptitude previously shown in exposing them and bringing them to justice, nay covering them up in the name of diversity? No, neither can I, but here we are.....
I just wonder how much damage they will actually do to this country in their tenure? They'll probably go balls deep as they are unlikely to be re-elected as things stand. The hatred and division they have caused in a few short months have totally eclipsed the previous shower of shit. The idiot at the helm is clueless.
Call me a gammon, I'm past caring
If what you said were true, it would be well worth discussion. But it’s nonsense.
Is this issue not that another enquiry is needed, but the implementation of the recommendations of the 2022 report? Seems there has been a significant delay from the previous government and very little engagement in regards to action from this one. Another enquiry would simply delay action for even longer, no?
No, neither can I, but here we are…..
Whilst, as previous posts show, I aint a fan of Starmer that really isnt what he said. Its just what the hard right decided he had said.
Bearing in mind the current tories have done the square root of **** all whilst in power to deal with it including ignoring the IICSA (which in fairness was started under Cameron and May as hs) its rather rich them suddenly deciding they care.
Especially as he had done some good as DPP changing the rules for investigation leading to quite a few convictions.
Exactly! The shameless charlatans in the Tory party, like Jenrick, demanding another enquiry are the same ones who’ve done the sum total of * all about the recommendations of the numerous previous enquiries. Jenrick was the Justice Minister in the home office at the time FFS!!!
The hypocrisy is absolutely breathtaking! It’s completely off the chart!
We don’t need yet another enquiry! We need the government to implement the recommendations of the previous
WHICH THEY ARE NOW DOING!!!
And they’re not doing it because of *s like Musk, or Jenrick or Badanoch, but because they were doing it anyway
Truly God-awful
Agree. Utter trash in every way.
If what you said were true, it would be well worth discussion. But it’s nonsense.
Did, or did he not state anyone asking for an inquiry is jumping on a far right bandwagon?
Have, or have not labour councils covered up grooming scandals?
Have labour council members not told people to shut their mouths in the name of diversity?
Has Keir not alienated massive swathes of the country with his poor choices?
That aside, I don't understand why there has to be so much red tape involved with dealing with rapists?
Punish the gangs, punish anyone found to have neglected their duties, implement recommendations, dig deeper to stop this crap getting brushed under the carpet.
Anyone that claims that things like this and other crimes aren't diluted because of the race of the perpetrators is quite frankly deluded and an apologist.
What amazes me is every time there is a horrifying attack. Of any sort, be or against children or terror attacks etc al, the silence on here is deafening. It never seems to be a topic of conversation - the conversation only arises when someone pipes up about it and there's an opportunity to cry racist, or as it is now preferred, far right
The whole Southport debacle is a case in point. I'm referring to the media in this case, not on here per se
Did, or did he not state anyone asking for an inquiry is jumping on a far right bandwagon?
“anyone asking for an enquiry” - no.
But Sir Keir accused opposition MPs of "jumping on a bandwagon" and "amplifying what the far-right is saying" to gain attention.
Sir Keir said Labour was addressing child sexual abuse after Conservative inaction "for 14 long years".
Online debate around grooming gangs had now "crossed a line", resulting in threats against MPs, including Safeguarding Minister Jess Phillips, he said.
"We have seen this playbook many times - whipping up of intimidation and of threats of violence, hoping that the media will amplify it," Sir Keir said.
"Those who are spreading lies and misinformation as far and as wide as possible are not interested in victims, they're interested in themselves," he added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75wp53vk1lo
What amazes me is every time there is a horrifying attack. Of any sort, be or against children or terror attacks etc al, the silence on here is deafening.
It is? I think you made that up.
The whole Southport debacle is a case in point.
What do you mean by that?
What amazes me is every time there is a horrifying attack. Of any sort, be or against children or terror attacks etc al, the silence on here is deafening
I’ve posted here on numerous occasions on various threads about the profiteering by private providers of care places in locations like Rochdale and Oldham - chosen for how cheap property is. This left the most vulnerable young girls left wide open to abuse by sexual predators of any race or colour. It’s been widely reported, particularly by the Guardian, but I don’t hear any of the newly-outraged Tory MPs calling for any enquiries into that. Maybe because it’s their mates making the money. But that’s the fault of ‘the left’, is it? Mkay.
Maybe you should do a bit more reading up and find out what’s really going on in the country?
You could start here…
How did children’s homes become centres of profit-making and abuse?
That took a lot of edits to get your point across and copy a lot of Labour rhetoric hot air quotes (not you binners)
The left are far, far more culpable of creating division than anyone else
That took a lot of edits to get your point across and copy a lot of Labour rhetoric hot air quotes
By "hot air quotes" you mean what Starmer actually said.
Now are you going to admit that you have been taken in by the hard right or will you double down on repeating their lies?
I fear TheArtist hasn't checked the facts of who did what when, nor seen the comments from the chair of the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse who has said we need government action, not another inquiry.
Edited to add - and despite the horrors of the predominantly south Asian grooming gangs, statistically child sexual predators are mainly white, and close family or friends of the victim.
Not that that has bothered Musk, a known associate of Epstein and Maxwell.