Sir! Keir! Starmer!

That’s not a surprise given the official Labour stance for the previous 4 months, they deserve it.

Starmer won't lose any sleep if Galloway wins, he'll just shrug his shoulders and dismiss it as inconsequential because Labour didn't have a candidate.

What would give Starmer a bloody nose would be if Azhar Ali was elected - the candidate which he rejected receiving the approval of the voters of Rochdale.

Galloway's ego will become insufferable if he wins.

Galloway’s ego is insufferable - FTFY

Really? The Houthis don’t seem to be taking much notice.

The intention is a commonly misunderstood, "These strikes are intended to further disrupt and degrade the capabilities of the Iranian-backed Houthi militia to conduct their reckless and destabilizing attacks against U.S. and international vessels lawfully transiting the Red Sea."

An example of taking a strong military force and restricting the rules of engagement; why would the Houthis take notice?

Stopping the attacks isn't mentioned.

Centrists doing 720 deg cart-wheels 'cos it's their dude.

🤣

Oh right.

I've been watching the debates all day since Hoyle did a runner, its an absolute farce at the moment on the BBC parliament channel

Oh right

according to hoyle it was in response to a labour MPs office being broken into today by Palestinian suppoerters

Oh right

according to hoyle it was in response to a labour MPs office being broken into today by Palestinian suppoerters

I've been having tea. Can anyone update me on the latest Westminster shitshow?

Lol it's all pretty hard work to be honest!

Rolling news causes chaos.

I will follow it tonight on a million you tube channels and see what happens.

Can anyone update me on the latest Westminster shitshow?

None* of them are worth their salaries.

*can't think of any that actually are. Apologies if any are.

For sure.

For sure.

again , Hoyle has said it didn't happen

are you saying hes lying?

The SNP set a trap for Labour

it backfired

Doesn't matter @kimbers, it'll still be Keir Starmers fault, and those centrists (sorry, centre right) voters 😂

Said it many times, it's all politics now, using Gaza as a way of trying to garner support at the next election, all for a pointless vote that will be stiffly ignored by Israel, like they've been ignoring everyone.

Said it many times, it’s all politics now, using Gaza as a way of trying to garner support at the next election, all for a pointless vote that will be stiffly ignored by Israel, like they’ve been ignoring everyone.

i cant disagree with that

The SNP set a trap for Labour

FFS hundreds of innocent civilians are needless dying every day and you talk about a SNP "trap?!?

Far from the SNP exploiting the misery caused by a murderous regime it is you with your talk of "a trap" who is using the situation to score cheap political points.

Can't you put politics to one side for a moment? The millions of homeless men, women, and children, those who are having their limbs amputated without anaesthetic, and those who dying from gunfire and missiles don't need this shite.

It is a total insult to the SNP and their voters to question their motivation in calling for an immediate ceasefire, as you try to defend the genocide supporting leader of the Labour Party.

Both Keir Starmer and Joe Biden faced with overwhelming public opposition are now calling for an immediate ceasefire, they know that they have no choice.

But neither, despite being forced to call for an immediate ceasefire, are prepared to vote in favour of one - not at the United Nations and not in the House of Commons. Their number one priority remains the same - to defend IDF terrorists.

It is them who are playing politics.

It is a total insult to the SNP and their voters to question their motivation in calling for an immediate ceasefire

Do you really believe that causing discomfort for Labour played no part at all in the SNP's decision making on this matter?

I couldn't give a **** if it played any part at all. The only thing that matters is putting maximum pressure on the UK government, the US, and of course Israel, to stop the carnage.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the SNP's primary motive is to put pressure to end the slaughter, which is a sentiment shared by millions.

If this exposes the Labour Leader's hypocrisy, and he is embarrassed by his totally indefensible support for Israel, then he has only himself to blame - not the SNP. He should just support the SNP's motion if he really cares.

Anyone who exposes the hypocrisy and the meaningless mealy mouth words of those who claim to care is doing everyone a favour imo.

ernielynch
Full Member
I couldn’t give a **** if it played any part at all

Oh right. So when you said:

It is a total insult to the SNP and their voters to question their motivation in calling for an immediate ceasefire

You were just posturing.

He should just support the SNP’s motion if he really cares.

So if you don’t agree with every word then you don’t care.

I believe that the SNP is motivated by a compassion and concern for the men, women, and children, of Gaza. Why wouldn't they be? It is something which clearly a majority of people feel.

If the SNP want to cause "discomfort", as you call it, to the Labour leader for not supporting a ceasefire, then I couldn't care less. In fact I welcome it - he should be extremely uncomfortable about supporting Israel.

He doesn't have to - he choses to.

I fail to see how this amounts to "posturing", as you bizarrely claim.

So if you don’t agree with every word then you don’t care.

You don't care when you claim that you care about an immediate ceasefire but only if Israel agrees to it, which seems to be basically Starmer's position.

If they want to cause “discomfort”, as you call it, to the Labour leader for not supporting a ceasefire, then I couldn’t care less

Yet you felt strongly enough to describe it as a total insult. Make your mind up.

You don’t care when you claim that you care about an immediate ceasefire but only if Israel agrees to it, which seems to be basically Starmer’s position.

You said he should support the SNP's motion, or he doesn't care.

The SNP set a trap for Labour

If that is your takeaway from this farce then you have a deep misunderstanding of what an opposition day motion is and what it stands for, this farce falls firmly at the door of Lindsay Hoyle for allowing the Labour motion first reading.

To further emphasise the point, this is nothing at all to do with the SNP

The SNP's leader had family trapped in Gaza, it seams perfectly reasonable to me that he is probably more concerned with the humanitarian disaster than "setting traps" for SKS.

"It is a trap for labour" is becoming a regular excuse for SKS's lack of principles.

Yet you felt strongly enough to describe it as a total insult. Make your mind up.

I have made my mind up. I consider it an insult to claim that the SNP are not motivated by humanity and compassion, no doubt like their voters which it is their duty to represent.

Oh come on Ernie, whilst I'm sure there are genuine concerns for the innocents of Gaza (and given Hamza Yusuf family commections its clear there is) theres also a large political element to this as Labour are the SNPs biggest threat in Scotland.

Its also a major stretch to claim the SNP is representing the views of many of its voters, people that vote for them due to their nationalist agenda. I would guess theres a fair few SNP voters who dont know where Gaza is and many more who have a hazy knowledge at best of whats going on and why. I reckon if you ask the average SNP voter Gaza wouldnt be near the top of current concerns they'd like the SNP to tackle.

I have made my mind up.

Yes, that's obvious from your comments.

As an average snp voter I’d like to reply to the idiot above that a Gaza ceasefire is a concern that I’d like raised at every opportunity

Fine, thats your democratic right, lobby your MP, but your compassion for the suffering of people in Gaza doesnt make my statement wrong or me an idiot so please try to be civil, this is a mountain biking forum and has next to no real world impact and certainly doesnt make a jot of difference to the people dying in the middle east.

Yes, that’s obvious from your comments.

Have we descended to the level of school yard retorts? Jaysus.

Have we descended to the level of school yard retorts? Jaysus.

If you say so. Simultaneously, it's an insult and you DGAF, and there is no inconsistency.

doesnt make my statement wrong or me an idiot so please try to be civil.

You have just accused "a fair few" SNP voters of not knowing where Gaza is and "many more" of a hazy knowledge, at best, of what's going on and why.

I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of people who vote SNP know exactly where Gaza is, and exactly what is going on and why.

Why wouldn't they - because they are idiots?

Edit: Btw stumpy this isn't the first you have claimed to be a victim of insults after throwing a few insults yourself. It seems to be a recurring pattern.

I didnt call anyone an idiot, if thats how you want to label Scottish voters thats up to you. If you think the majority of Scottish voters have the same level of knowledge of the complex and appalling situation in Gaza as people in this thread or that its high on their priority list of things for the SNP to tackle I'm pretty sure yoi're wrong. Whilst its a big issue amongst politically motivated people I really don't think people struggling to cope with the cost of living or inability to access NHS services or get suitable housing would be particularly happy for the SNP to use one of its precious parlimentary days to focus the HoC on the plight of people thoisands of miles away they have little in common with however noble a cause it is.

But you've made it quite clear responding to others that your mind is made up.

Edit: in response to your edit, I think the only one throwing insults around here is somafunk but if thats his response its up to the mods to decide of its appropriate or not. Maybe try focusing on the debate rather than carrying a personal grudge because some doesnt see the world exactly as you do?

I couldn’t give a **** if it played any part at all. The only thing that matters is putting maximum pressure on the UK government, the US, and of course Israel, to stop the carnage.

surely you will he pleased then as the SNP motion passed as well as the Labour amendment calling for "a immediate humanitarian ceasefire”

surely you will he pleased then as the SNP motion passed

Unless I am missing something it didnt. The SNP one wasnt voted on due to the Labour one being voted on.

Personally I would have thought if labour were going to pressure Hoyle they should do so about Sunaks habit of believing PMQs is his opportunity to ask questions rather than answer them.
Still its good to see Starmer has adopted the tory approach of accusing others of playing politics.

Unless I am missing something it didnt. The SNP one wasnt voted on due to the Labour one being voted on.

technically it went through unopposed, but was amended by the labour call, also unopposed

the arcane proceedings of parliament don't seem to make much sense

all of this Westminster navel-gazing, will obviously change nothing on the ground in Gaza

My takeaway from tonight’s The Thick Of It reconstruction:

Hoyle a a * (not really news to anyone who watches his spineless actions every week)

Starmer is a * (genocide supporter so no surprise he’s happy to subvert parliamentary process to water down criticism of Israel)

The tories are ** (no surprise there)

The SNP are ** for indulging in parliamentary theatre with the tories.

They’re all ***** basically.

Meanwhile another dozen kids have probably died whilst I was typing that.

The Labour Party have 17 opposition days whilst the SNP have 3, the Labour Party/Starmer could have called the motion on any of the 17 days allocated to them yet decided to call it on the day that a significant amount of Labour mp’s were going to rebel against the party whip and vote for the SNP motion.

Why today I wonder?

Newsnight reported that Lindsay Hoyle was threatened with loosing his peerage after they kick him out next year unless he broke with parliamentary procedures to intervene on the vote on Labour/Starmers behalf.

I doubt Newsnight would report such if they were unsure of its veracity and I expect a pile of no confidence letters are going to come in regarding his position as Speaker of the House.

The SNP/Stephen Flynn have repeatedly called for a ceasefire since the assault on Gaza began over 4 months ago.

Meanwhile another dozen kids have probably died whilst I was typing that.

Yeah but the great news is that Starmer avoided "a trap" by the SNP, which could have led to about 100 Labour MPs rebelling.

So despite Starmer's supporters on here claiming that any vote concerning Gaza is completely pointless all those shenanigans going on yesterday in parliament were really really important.

And Labour's amendment basically puts the blame for 13,000 dead Palestinian children on Hamas, which is exactly Israel's position - Israel can't be expected to stop slaughtering innocent civilians if Hamas doesn't stop fighting.

Starmer must be very pleased with himself.

Starmer must be very pleased with himself

Well those “Friends of Israel” donations aren’t for nothing, you know.

technically it went through unopposed, but was amended by the labour cal

aka replaced by it.
Given how much effort Starmer put into getting his version in it seems a bit odd to try the snp version passed.
Got to admire him. Johnson had to wait until he was in office before messing with parliamentary conventions.

And Labour’s amendment basically puts the blame for 13,000 dead Palestinian children on Hamas,

it really doesn't say that  it actually says...

That this House believes that an Israeli ground offensive in Rafah risks catastrophic humanitarian consequences and therefore must not take place; notes the intolerable loss of Palestinian life, the majority being women and children; condemns the terrorism of Hamas who continue to hold hostages; supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; demands that rapid and unimpeded humanitarian relief is provided in Gaza; further demands an end to settlement expansion and violence; urges Israel to comply with the International Court of Justice’s provisional measures; calls for the UN Security Council to meet urgently; and urges all international partners to work together to establish a diplomatic process to deliver the peace of a two-state solution, with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable Palestinian state, including working with international partners to recognise a Palestinian state as a contribution to rather than outcome of that process, because statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people and not in the gift of any neighbour.

and as for saying

Meanwhile another dozen kids have probably died whilst I was typing that.

thats probably true, but if you think anything passed in the commons would make any sort of difference to israel , ive got a bridge to sell you

that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again;

ie that Israel can continue doing whatever it wants as long as it pretends the victims are “terrorists”

I wonder if we have actually reached a tipping point beyond which a Palestinian state is not viable, or will that point have been reached after the inevitable expulsion of Gazans into Egypt ?

Johnson had to wait until he was in office before messing with parliamentary conventions

Ha ha. The Tory thread was suspiciously quiet on all this you could take this point over to there and light the fuse ?

thats probably true, but if you think anything passed in the commons would make any sort of difference to israel , ive got a bridge to sell you

Side point: doesn't the UK sell arms to Israel?

Blimey the naivety displayed on this thread is astonishing 😂. Anyone who really believes the SNP's motion was driven by pure altruism, and not by a desire to embarrass their main threat in the next election, needs to give their head a wobble. It's politics...that's how it works.