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Pre bankers budget but the truss bounce appears to have been rather flat
theres a snap post budget Savamta poll in (and for) the Daily Fail predicting a 56 seat labour majority from a 12 point lead. :/
I'd take that but a big win for labour would mean no PR which is no good.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1574281362755899392?t=Sw6rxtrRcU8MXeUZJUzGTg&s=19
Yes, you idiots it's called state ownership backed by an already sovereign currency issuing government.
These people are off their heads.
"But I don't want to admit we already spend and issue out own currency - we must need a 'fund'."
FFs
I like anything that spends on the diminished parts of society but please stop pretending that we need some made up economic lies to make it work
'Grow the economy' means no redistribution but if you work harder to enrich your bosses you might get a few extra crumbs. It's Labour's re-wording of trickle down.
A wealth fund actually sounds like a pretty good idea on the face of it, providing the investment for the infrastructure projects by keeping shares in the companies to funnel back profits for future investments.
However I think it creates two big problems.
1, while governments create the investment and infrastructure, down the line other governments can sell off the investments to create short term gains.
2. Governments injecting investment of public money inflates an already inflated asset market, meaning future generations pay more for a smaller percentage of the pie (see also the impact of government support for first time buyers and the impact on house prices).
They are saddled with the same thinking but communicate it differently than the Tories and perhaps aren't as reckless but it's still the same framework they are operating to.
Labour can do very little different to the Tories in this sort of economic situation - I mean the BoE would still raise rates wouldn't they!
All sounds good to me (the Labour headline that is, not your moaning).
Another policy. Labour seem to mean business in this conference. It's long overdue. How long before they announce free broadband?
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1574333123537559552?s=20&t=CAFM3-mPrUj7wOQXMOuOvQ
Well now Brexit has 'been done' they at least don't have that massive obstacle to fall over so have achance with some well thought out polcies.
Yup... all the performance patrotism (sadly needed, you only have to read any polling done on why Labour lost so badly in 2019) isn't the only story that'll come out of this conference, thank goodness... it'll all still be too cautious for many... and it won't be the full story of how the next election will be fought... but it will be the start of the drawing of an obvious and understandable dividing line in the minds of the voters.
Next up... a Real Living Wage.
Yes, none of this is new. Yes, we need it. The big challenge for Labour is to take enough voters along with them up to election day.
I’d take that but a big win for labour would mean no PR which is no good.
It wouldn't be anything like that by the time the media has got to work. And a system which 'may' only deliver a narrow majority after 12 years of some of the poorest administrations in living memory needs to go.
Labour needs to make sure, by pacting with the LibDems, and pledge to introduce full PR in the first term.
Labour needs to make sure, by pacting with the LibDems, and pledge to introduce full PR in the first term.
I don't see this happening. Even though I'd like it to. Not on the run up to the next election anyway. What happens once/if the Conservatives are out of office, and need to be kept out of office... that's a whole other future battle. Conservative majority government based on minority public support is dragging the UK down, and splitting it apart.
NHS staffing, the nettle that needs grasping…
https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1574363237604364288?s=21
Creating jobs that are needed, rather than giving money to the rich and pretending that creates jobs, who'd have thunked it. They really need to push the message that this is how the economy expends, and not by allowing the already wealthy to horde even more money.
Sounding good so far.
Yeah, I can't say I'm finding it inspirational but it feels pretty solid, well thought out and probably a good mix of public-pleasing and actually useful.
But, at the same time finding it hard to square with the party's messaging of, oh, a couple of days ago, or the month or the year before. That might sound like a lefty blaming starmer for everything, I guess, but I'd have been pretty happy if this had been his launch, rather than 2 and a half years in.
I mean, for instance, "we'll nationalise the railways". Excellent! Of course we ****ing should, even most tory voters want that and the tories have literally already done a bunch of it. Except that was a 2020 promise that he already backtracked on once and it was just as open a goal last time. Reannouncing the same abandoned policies, even when they're good one, makes you less trustworthy- I love the policy but do I have faith in it still being policy next year? No.
But, it does feel generally better
I like all these ideas but Labour are claiming funding them with taxes reset.
I means seriously shut up about that.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1574379410857332739?t=-cTUtwolc9OJFrlAPI0ECg&s=19
Yep. I mean, we have Kwarteng literally giving money to rich people and openly paying for it with borrowing, and it going down like a lead balloon. Even against that backdrop, Labour are still on the balancing the books myth. At this point I think there could be no opposition at all and they'd still be too traumatised to move from that position. It is not good. And it's persistent- if anyone ever does find the nerve to actually tell the truth on this, every time a previous leader's not done it will count against them, so they're not just sustaining the myth even though it suits the tories way more than it suits them, they're making it stronger.
People think that Labour promise things that we can’t afford as a country. They are wrong, but you can’t just tell them that, you have to reassure them to win them over. Every single policy Labour announce will be paired with a preemptive answer to the question “how will you pay for it”. Get used to it. It will be the pattern right up to the next election. “Uncosted plans” will not be part of the Labour manifesto. Full stop. The same rules do not apply to the Tories, but it’s always been that way.
Corbyn's manifesto was fully costed with the backing of dozens of international economists and he still got destroyed with the support, sadly, of some on here. He's no longer relevant but there are lessons to be learnt whilst people stew in their newly acquired poverty.
Some of us voted for Labour at both his general elections, because we could see where Tory MPs would take us. I did anyway. Not sure who “here” helped defeat/destroy him though… it’s just some mountain bikers throwing thoughts and observations between each other. I’m hoping most of those moaning about Starmer on here will still vote Labour, if they are in a Tory/Labour marginal seat. Grumping on the internet that he isn’t good enough is fine, and perfectly understandable. Not voting against these Tories at the next general election is a whole other matter.
Who said 'helped defeat/destroy'? It reads 'support', do you not remember 'who could vote for Corbyn?', 'magic grandad, couldn't find his arse, anti-semite' etc. Blimey, it wasn't that long ago.
Truss has gifted Starmer a 17pt lead , extra remarkable as there is no ukip to slice up the Tory vote & 20% gone to lib Dems/ GRN/SNP !
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1574498468172906512?t=I9G22Ap7Tg15ZIep-OIsrw&s=19
Blimey, it wasn’t that long ago.
Sorry Bill, yeah, many of us pointed out Corbyn’s weaknesses, but still voted for Labour parliamentary candidates with him as leader. I’m hoping those pointing out Starmer’s weaknesses (and he has plenty) will still vote for Labour candidates with him as leader. If that’s what works in their seat. We’ll see.
Truss has gifted Starmer a 17pt lead , extra remarkable as there is no ukip to slice up the Tory vote & 20% gone to lib Dems/ GRN/SNP !
And we haven’t had this winter yet. The worst is yet to come.
Also, there is much more that LibDems can take from the Tories in some areas of the country. The cancelling of their conference was a stroke of luck for Truss… it’s a rare period of air time for them normally. I think they’ll be double figures if they can remind voters they exist. Tories at 25% seems possible.
I mean, for instance, “we’ll nationalise the railways”. Excellent! Of course we ****ing should, even most tory voters want that and the tories have literally already done a bunch of it. Except that was a 2020 promise that he already backtracked on once and it was just as open a goal last time. Reannouncing the same abandoned policies, even when they’re good one, makes you less trustworthy- I love the policy but do I have faith in it still being policy next year? No.
Nearly 30 years ago in 1995 Tony Blair was talking about renationalisation of the railways, when it suited his agenda to do so:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/labour-draws-up-plan-to-renationalise-railways-1568038.html
He soon dropped the idea when it no longer suited his agenda.
But why is Starmer only considering renationalising something which is consistently losing money and will always do so?
Last year when the government pumped £16.9 billion into the railways might have been exceptional but pre-pandemic the railways were receiving £5 billion a year in government subsidies.
Of course it is right to nationalise an industry in which the profits go to private companies and the losses to the government, but why not also talk about renationalising vital industries which usually are expected to make vast profits?
To only have under common ownership industries which provide a vital service but have to rely on government subsidies perpetuates this false narrative that nationalisation equates with failed business models that only survive due to handouts from tax payers.
And why can't the profits from the utilities, for example, be used to help pay for health care, or education, or indeed subsidise the railways?
Public support for the renationalisation of the utilities is there, even among Tory voters, Starmer needs to be less timid and less worried about what the Daily Mail might say.
Edit: It's worth pointing out that a quarter of the railway journeys are currently provided by the public sector, and nearly half by foreign government owned companies.
kelvin
Full MemberPeople think that Labour promise things that we can’t afford as a country. They are wrong, but you can’t just tell them that, you have to reassure them to win them over. Every single policy Labour announce will be paired with a preemptive answer to the question “how will you pay for it”.
Of course. It's just, it doesn't have to be bullshit. It doesn't have to play pretty much entirely by the tory party's rules. Least of all when the tory party isn't.
I was disappointed by the apparent lack of audience participation.
Probably lots of quiet republicans. We have to do that quite often. Been doing it since school.
Also… microphones are a thing.
Did they sing the National Anthem and the Red Flag ? Seems a tad contradictory.
Perhaps a surreal mash up of the two could have been the 'Things Can Only Get Better' anthem for a new generation.
People think that Labour promise things that we can’t afford as a country. They are wrong, but you can’t just tell them that, you have to reassure them to win them over. Every single policy Labour announce will be paired with a preemptive answer to the question “how will you pay for it”.
Of course. It’s just, it doesn’t have to be bullshit. It doesn’t have to play pretty much entirely by the tory party’s rules. Least of all when the tory party isn’t
also how honest are the tories about their actual objectives (make the rich richer, keep folks in their place, widen social divisions etc etc)? We now have the second highest income inequality of any OECD country in Europe, behind Bulgaria (OECD data. Income inequality. https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm ). The let's call it budget should take us to the top spot no problem.
Did they sing the National Anthem and the Red Flag ?
The Red Flag is usually sung at the end of Conference.
It remains to be seen whether this year they employ the services of a professional singer to camouflage the lack of audience participation when the Red Flag is sung.
Usually it is sung with great passion. And for many much emphasis is made on the words "Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here"
Usually it is sung with great passion.
I think they've expelled everyone who might sing it with passion.
Shit he just announced the nationalisation of energy! I’m sold.
And… it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares by buying out “legacy” producers. Sounds like a sound approach to me.
And… it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares by buying out “legacy” producers. Sounds like a sound approach to me
Definitely sounds good
That it's called Great British Energy will upset the Tories, who will now have to attack it
Truss has gifted Starmer a 17pt lead , extra remarkable as there is no ukip to slice up the Tory vote & 20% gone to lib Dems/ GRN/SNP !
And we haven’t had this winter yet. The worst is yet to come.
Yeah it's hard to see how Tories can regain ground given what's in store.
it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares
Yup. He's essentially bringing about the decline of the fossil fuel energy providers in Britain. That's quite a revolutionary policy. Combined with the announcement on rail and other stuff I have to say there's very little to dislike here assuming he doesn't change his mind.
Missed the speech - work and all that - but, based on what I've read, it's the most positive and encouraging speech by a labour leader for 20 years.
Strong set of policy commitments; I like!
I have Covid today so got to sit down and watch the speech in full.
It was good with some practical changes that people will be able to buy in to. You just wish it could start tomorrow 🙁
Does this answer the "Where are the new ideas/visionary leadership/etc" questions?
Maybe they've just been biding their time . . . . . . ?
With this and PR on the horizon it could just work.
It could be a long time to the next election mind. . . . .
Combined with the announcement on rail and other stuff I have to say there’s very little to dislike here assuming he doesn’t change his mind.
That's my worry: I liked his leadership manifesto, but he then spent the next year disowning it. Let's hope he sticks to his guns this time.
Well, optimistically, when he became leader he presumably had lots of horse trading to do. But now it's been a few years it should be a lot more organised and these things should stick. You'd hope...
Well, optimistically, when he became leader he presumably had lots of horse trading to do.
It felt like a cynical exercise in buying the left's votes, after which he set about purging them from party. I can only hope that you're right about today's commitments sticking.
Surprised there's not more content by the usual crew on this thread?
Liking the direction of travel so far.
Even Tory voters like it
https://twitter.com/Cmmonwealth/status/1574755032372756483?t=6PO_n9D4WlAsaYCpuRYI9g&s=19
Truss has managed to turn conservatives onto green energy & public ownership 😂😂😂
Quiet in here tonight…
They are just grumpy that sks has got some good policies.
Good interview with Angela Rayner on the news agents podcast recently too