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Timing is good I think... needed to not be old news when the new PM is announced, but also needed to get in ahead of that. Likely that Truss will have to wait 'till after the voting closes to swap to all but copy Labour's approach, after only just telling her voting members that she won't.
The case for nationalisation will make itself before too long.
Much if it will happen without much fuss. Bit by bit.
The case for nationalisation will make itself before too long.
This is very true.
The financial case is here now (and has been for a while) but 'they' will respond in a lagging way that doesn't do anyone any favours.
Modern politics - do everything at the very last minute only when absolutely necessary. That's why eveything's in a mess.
I also think that Stamer was delaying any announcements for as long as possible in order to not interrupt the Tories as they were tying themselves in knots at the hustings
He acted because of outside influence of key drivers such as Martin Lewis & Gordon Brown. Not because he was waiting.
Had Starmer come out earlier then it could have potentially worked in Sunak’s favour...
How?
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1559208951379628035?s=20&t=2889W-Hn2W05kg8bTe1qsQ
She's so bad she's good.
She is bad so it obviously does not mean that she is good.
If more people think that she will make a better PM than Starmer would, it is simply a reflection of people's low opinion of Starmer, not necessarily a high opinion of Truss.
Truss’ bounce will be short lived. I’m surprised if anyone is surprised that she’s getting one though.
A Tory commentator commenting on the Labour announcement about this winter…
https://twitter.com/montie/status/1559059392804298752?s=21
Oh, and most polling has the Tories under Truss as still falling behind Labour under Starmer. But yeah, grab the rare polls that make Truss look better if it fits the narrative. They won’t last. Roll on a general election. It’s going to be a close one.
https://twitter.com/lordashcroft/status/1559078977456820224?s=21
You can get from Manchester to Leeds for £7.50 today, about the same distance.
Yes there are good fares available here if you're ready to buy when the cheap rates are available. The Hungarian one will be the turn up and go, every day price; not a special.
Truss also benefiting from the fact that people dont know much about her
Agree her bounce will be short lived, unless she adopts starners price cap freeze policy,
Oh, and talking of bounces... I still think that Labour should change leader before the general election... despite the risk posed by the government having control of the timing of that election. I don't think they can though. Too slow. Too loyal.
"He acted because of outside influence of key drivers such as Martin Lewis & Gordon Brown. Not because he was waiting."
Really?
Whatever, the timing was perfect and as Kelvin also points out, conservative commentators are acknowledging how Starmer has outflanked Sunak and Truss. They are doing this not because they have suddenly become Starmerites, they are doing it because they realise that Starmer has somewhat unexpectedly hit the nail on the head.
The Tories might have over-egged the culture war, it got Johnson elected but it's deployment in the leadership contest was unnecessary and deployed at a time when the public at large was more concerned with energy wars.
Interestingly, amongst Conservative party membership those under 50 support Sunak by +6%. Over 50 and it's nearly all for Truss.
Divide and rule comes home to roost.
Truss also benefiting from the fact that people dont know much about her
Do you think Starmer also benefits from the fact people generally don't know much about him?
"I still think that Labour should change leader before the general election"
I'd have felt the same last week but I think he bought himself some time with yesterday's performance. He is now seen to be setting the narrative.
For years we have seen the Tories pinch Labour policy whilst the narrative that Labour had 'no ideas' persited. The conventional wisdom is that Starmer should have been filling the airwaves whilst the actual PM was absent. Hanging back has proved to be a good move, as I said earlier, "why interrupt your enemy when he's making mistakes?".
The Tories now look completely reactionary and the narrative is now about how dependent on the Labour Party for policy ideas and direction they have become. Makes Starmer look a little bit more like a leader.
Starmer benefits from being interviewed sitting down. When he stands up he goes into full on boring barrister mode, he can't help it, muscle memory and all that. When he's sat down he comes across as much more assured.
Someone should tell him.
whilst the narrative that Labour had ‘no ideas’ persited.
Let's keep a bit of perspective on this. Yesterday Starmer announced that he would freeze energy bills at where they are now - 54 per cent higher than they were before April, for just six months.
It's great that during his well-deserved holiday Starmer came up with something which at least recognises that millions are facing a cost of living crises of historic proportions, but let's not get too carried away with regards to the brilliance of his idea.
It's a good start and hopefully he might come up with a few more ideas, some of them might even amount to more than just pissing in the wind. Let's wait and see.
why interrupt your enemy when he’s making mistakes?
I hate that phrase when used about politics. It isn't the politicians suffering from "your enemies" mistakes, it is millions of people and families up and down the country, the most vulnerable ones suffering the most. Families will break up because of those mistakes, some people will commit suicide, children's education and social growth will suffer due to the stresses and hardship faced by their parents, old people will die because they are scared of using energy.
These are not times to just stand idle while "your enemy" is putting on a clown show and pouring custard down his union jack y fronts. Politics isn't a game show, political actions and inactions have real consequences.
It’s a good start and hopefully he might come up with a few more ideas, some of them might even amount to more than just pissing in the wind. Let’s wait and see.
No point in having big ideas if you can't enact them. Surely this far out from a GE it's better to be forcing the govs hand and change the narrative around labours ability to govern sensibly? Then come election year, bring out the big ideas to move forwards once elected.
Offering alternative policies, where they feel it is appropriate, is an important part of the job of the Opposition.
Then come election year, bring out the big ideas to move forwards once elected.
This year could be an election year. Especially with a change of Prime Minister.
The two previous changes in Prime Minister resulted in unscheduled general elections.
Politics isn’t a game show, political actions and inactions have real consequences.
No
To be fair many people who are strongly hostile towards the Tories don't much like the electorate either - contemptuously dismissing them as stupid, below average intelligence, and undeserving.
Those people I expect see politics as more of a game than a moral crusade with tangible consequences.
contemptuously dismissing them as stupid, below average intelligence, and undeserving.
I reckon that about half of them are of below average intelligence 😀
And you don't even need half of voters to go with you to be in government. Even more true for the Conservatives, where age distribution across seats plays nicely into their hands.
Surely this far out from a GE it’s better to be forcing the govs hand and change the narrative around labours ability to govern sensibly?
Sounds about right to me.
Good that Starmer wants to help households, but it’s the tip of the iceberg. Economic collapse on its way, and not a single politician of any party seems to have realised.
https://twitter.com/1goodtern/status/1559519407742885890?s=21&t=cbHP2RMx7saaw9CuLNCA6g
This year could be an election year. Especially with a change of Prime Minister.
Highly likely given the upheaval on its way. When an economy collapses, so does the government. Johnson will be glad he’s shot of it.
Not impossible that Truss doesn’t even get to the polls. A GE could end up being as late as possible, with yet another Tory PM leading the general election campaign.
"Good that Starmer wants to help households, but it’s the tip of the iceberg. Economic collapse on its way, and not a single politician of any party seems to have realised."
Do you know this for sure? As I said earlier, the case for nationalisation will make itself before too long, no need for Starmer to go all Tooting Popular Front at the moment.
"I hate that phrase when used about politics. It isn’t the politicians suffering from “your enemies” mistakes, it is millions of people and families up and down the country"
It's the truth though isn't it?
Do you know this for sure?
If they do nothing it’s fairly certain I reckon. All but the most profitable businesses are going to go bust if their energy bills increase by what we’re now seeing. At the moment all politicians have their heads in the sand, and seem to have no idea of what’s coming. And to compound that they directly oppose the only possible solution.
I think he means are you sure that no politician is aware of the mess we’re heading for? Why do you think that you know this and they don’t? What you really mean (I suspect) is that their word and actions aren’t yet what you think is required given what is coming. They can see what’s coming, we were already predicted to have week wage growth and fast rising costs on the path we were on as a country before the pandemic and Russia’s war in Europe. Politicians know what is likely to be coming in the UK.
She is bad so it obviously does not mean that she is good.
I mean we all thinks she's so bad that she's doing well in the polls.
Took that one literally yoof.
Politicians know what is likely to be coming in the UK.
So why the conspiracy of silence? How does that serve them if they know they’re going to have to do a screeching u-turn? We can only go off what they say and do. So far none of them* are saying or doing anything. They either know and are doing nothing, or they don’t. Both scenarios are just as bad.
*Apart from Gordon Brown
yeah, grab the rare polls that make Truss look better if it fits the narrative. They won’t last. Roll on a general election. It’s going to be a close one.
If she is so bad then it ought to be reflected.
It's a redfield wilton poll.
They either know and are doing nothing
There’s very little any Labour politician (outside Wales) can do right now.
If she is so bad then it ought to be reflected.
I’ve said she’d get a bounce. But all other polling suggests that even with that bounce Labour are staying ahead… which I find surprising. I mean we all pick polls to make a point, but wider polling has a Starmer led Labour still just about ahead right now (for now).
No point in having big ideas if you can’t enact them.
The big ideas come first.
Then sell them.
Otherway around is utter shite and losing Labour ground.
Point is Starmer will never do big ideas if he's scared of losing an election. Because he will also be scared of getting hammered in power too.
I’ve said she’d get a bounce. But all other polling suggests that even with that bounce Labour are staying ahead… which I find surprising
Eventually things will crack but I think the left commentariat are making the same mistake again and underestimating the ability to put another dozy Tory leader in power.
Same outrage, same hysteria and same vivid descriptions of incompetence.
Truss will do better at holding on than people think. All she has to do is come up with the financial goods and that will piss Starmer all over the floor.
That said, the COLC could sink them irrespective.
I mean we all pick polls to make a point, but wider polling has a Starmer led Labour still just about ahead right now (for now).
6pts down from 10.
All to play for I guess.
What's the redwall view on Truss?
I might nip down the street and do a snap poll.
I'd imagine they'd put the Tory brand first.
Apart from Gordon Brown
I did listen to Brown talking and although his sentiment was there he barely scratched the surface of what to do.
Politicians should get better economic advisors.
Classical economics is part the reason for the shit here - they've served their masters with endless growth nonsense.
Fred Milliband is avoiding the nationalisation issue on telly - he was responsible for half-baked thinking on Labour's approach to energy prices way back.
Always thought he was crap.
The left are so desperate to keep the market ticking over - properly depressing.
What’s the redwall view on Truss?
Plenty to post on this… I’ll do it in the thread on the Tory leadership campaign…
Plenty to post on this… I’ll do it in the thread on the Tory leadership campaign…
Lol you got secret comms to them?
Drop by Bassetlaw I will make you a coffee.
Took that one literally yoof.
Yeah I think you missed my point too. I was trying to emphasise that the poor quality of opposition was probably the deciding factor when it came to Truss being the preferred PM choice among voters.
The Tories themselves are not particularly popular among voters - although the Labour lead is currently averaging only about 5% Labour have maintained a lead over the Tories since last December.
If more voters feel that Truss would make a better PM than Starmer it isn't because the Tories are more popular. It is presumably because voters are unconvinced by Starmer's prime ministerial qualities.
Considering that the issue of energy prices and the cost of living has been a headline issue for several months now, and that it took Starmer all that time to come up with a proposal that energy bills should be frozen at 54% higher than they were last year, for six months, with as yet no longer term solution, it isn't entirely surprising.
I'm predicating a U-turn towards temporary nationalisation from Labour eventually.
Happy to put it out there. And be wrong.
Just got a feeling.
Oh, “creeping” towards nationalisation is nailed on. Isn’t it? Propose it by bit to deal with a whole series of crisis on their way for the UK. Easier when in a position to enable this, not just talk about it.
I did listen to Brown talking and although his sentiment was there he barely scratched the surface of what to do.
Agree but he at least appeared to grasp the scale of the crisis, comparing it to 2008, which is exactly what it is, or probably worse. The thing with energy though is there’s no real reason to re-privatise after nationalisation like there was with the banks. I mean the bank re-privatisation should have been on the condition of fundamental reform, but that didn’t happen but hey-ho.
Even the commentariat don’t seem to get it, including the usual lefty suspects. Richard Murphy and to a lesser extent Martin Lewis seem to stand alone on recognising the enormity of it all.
The thing with energy though is there’s no real reason to re-privatise after nationalisation like there was with the banks. I mean the bank re-privatisation should have been on the condition of fundamental reform, but that didn’t happen but hey-ho.
Dead on.
Even the commentariat don’t seem to get it, including the usual lefty suspects. Richard Murphy and to a lesser extent Martin Lewis seem to stand alone on recognising the enormity of it all.
Yeah I guess we've had this system for so long people assume it just carries on.
To fair I thought everything was going to totally fall apart in 2010 and I was wrong then.
Temporary nationalisation can last a long time, see Network Rail (are they still called that?)
A thought… if we’re only talking about energy retail companies… why not cap prices, let them all fail, start a new public owned retailer, and allow us all to swap to them as a supplier…? Why nationalise any existing energy retailer?