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He was, like so many politician, the author of his own **** ups.
I guess any reserves of kindness were eroded by years of people on his own side calling him a racist.
For muttering “stupid people” under his breath? Are you serious??
he said Stupid woman. It was clear, and everyone recognised that. He tangled himself up in knots because of the pronouncements about how he was going to conduct himself that he made beforehand. Like I said, the author of his own ****-up. Look he's not perfect, none of us are, and honestly who can blame him...but this is televised politics, it was just another nail.
he said Stupid woman. It was clear, and everyone recognised that.
I have no idea if he said "stupid woman" or "stupid people", and like most voters I couldn't give a monkeys what he said, it was the Tories and the Tory press that were obsessed with what he had muttered under his breath.
Although I am willing to believe that Corbyn is daft enough to think that saying "stupid woman" is misogynist and not himself use the term.
But that's not the point, are you seriously suggesting that Corbyn was a hypocrite for, on the one hand claiming that he wanted a 'kinder more gentle politics', but then muttering something to himself which no one was expected to hear? If so that is quite remarkable.
but then muttering something to himself which no one was expected to hear?
If he'd have done that, no one would be any the wiser, and you'd right, but he didn't do that, he said it out loud (his lips moved an everything) sat on the opposition front bench under the glare of a camera pointed at him and everyone saw.
I don't want to invoke the ghost of binners but honestly, it was a Dennis the Constitutional Peasant moment..."Oh, did you hear that, what a give away, you heard it didn't you..."
he said it out loud
Well he didn't, which is why papers such as the Daily Mail contacted professional lip-readers.
But since I hate arguing let's put that to one side and let's say that he did indeed say it out loud. In fact let's say that he shouted it across the Commons Chamber, are you seriously claiming that this proves he was a hypocrite and didn't believe in a kinder and gentler politics?
that this proves he was a hypocrite and didn’t believe in a kinder and gentler politics?
I've no idea, but what I think isn't really important, I wasn't the audience that comment was aimed at, he said them to the Commons on one of his first speeches as leader of the Labour party. If then, when the heat gets turned up, he says different things under his breath that everyone sees, he makes himself look immediately like a fool, and then doubly so for trying to squirm out of it afterwards.
It's a lot like the anti-Semitism charge that followed him around like a bad smell, if you want people to think you're not an anti Semite, it doesn't look great if you're pictured at a funeral standing next to a bunch of folks who are avowedly anti Semitic.
I disliked Corbyn because in his efforts to be "authentic", he made himself look entirely inauthentic time and again.
It’s a lot like the anti-Semitism charge that followed him around like a bad smell
It didn't follow him round because he was at the wrong funeral, it followed him around because the likes of Margaret Hodge decided to weaponise the issue because they didn't agree with his politics and couldn't make the IRA and socialist worker stuff stick. As Ernie says, his mistake was not defending himself against such ridiculous and offensive smears and not throwing the likes of Hodge out of the party.
I'd be interested to hear what Starmer's attitude / Labour policy to the upcoming rail strike is.
Wes Streeting on QT last night, wouldn't dare be drawn to say that he backed it - even though he went around the houses to back it in all but name
Interesting to note that darling of the Remainy types, Rory Stewart revealed himself to be just another economically hard right, posh boy Etonian with his withering attack on the RMT. Hardly suprising with his voting record on Welfare and the NHS
Layla Moran wasn't far behind and as for Tom Harwood, crikey, when are these low tax lobby shills going to be called out for what they are and stop being given such undue prominence. There's always one of them on QT
It didn’t follow him round because he was at the wrong funeral
From your perspective maybe, from a Jewish perspective, I can be absolutely certain that those photos made a lasting impression on a great deal of people, and other instances and "gaffs" made a great deal more people sit up and take notice. I'm not saying it wasn't weaponised by his opposition, but you'd be mistaken to believe that it wasn't taken very seriously otherwise.
from a Jewish perspective
Not denying that Jewish people on the whole don’t like Corbyn. If people on his own side who claim to support Israel tell you he’s an anti-Semite then why would you question that? When Sayeda Warsi told Muslims that the tories were Islamaphobic do you reckon they disagreed?
From your perspective maybe, from a Jewish perspective
I have met far more Jews that supported Corbyn than opposed him, including Jewish Labour Party members.
Mind you I probably associate with the wrong sort of Jew - some of them were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause. In fact some were actively involved in Medical Aid for Palestine.
Wes Streeting on QT last night, wouldn’t dare be drawn to say that he backed it – even though he went around the houses to back it in all but name
Interesting Streeting has started making more left-wing noises than usual.
“If I were a member of the RMT then I would be voting to go on strike and I’d be voting to defend my job’s terms and conditions”
But we know the drill now don't we?
nickc
Full Memberhe said Stupid woman. It was clear, and everyone recognised that.
It wasn't, there were lots of disagreements. The main response from my BSL students, who're all adept lipreaders, was that it was too unclear to comment. You could have an opinion, sure, but if you testified to it as a fact you'd be mad.
Not that it really mattered at all.
Starmer doesn’t think it’s his job to come up with ideas apparently. He obviously thinks being LOTO is not much different to being DPP.
Got to giggle at that article being about 18 months late.
One senior aide said: “There’s no sense of where we can make political hay against our opponents, areas we can be exploiting to draw a clear dividing line between ourselves and the Tories.”
No shit Sherlock. How about trying some ideas that push in a better direction than the Tories you fools. If Labour in 2017 were the sixth formers (Binners (c) 2017-2019 ) then this incarnation is the after school club.
Why are they even surprised at having no strategy? It's the emperor's new clothes
With the windfall debacle it's left Labour with nowhere to go.
I've seen a few Guardian pieces chuntering at Kez. Eventually even the metropolitan elite start to ruffle their feathers.
The former business secretary Peter Mandelson – from the opposite wing of the party to Fisher – attacked the policy this week in a speech, saying: “Just announcing a massive spend and a big policy goal does not in itself deliver economic growth.”
**** off you time waster.
And what is your alternative in a recession Pete? You seen the OECD forecast for no growth 2023? What is your idea for that?
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1535698400942989314?t=GEq6j-XaxV3WH7XTeKw0GA&s=19
And here's me thinking Johnson had a bad week.
Starmer doesn’t think it’s his job to come up with ideas apparently.
Why are they even surprised at having no strategy?
I think Starmer and the "centrists" do have a strategy, although it is not one which I agree with.
The strategy is that you convince Tory voters to vote Labour by as much as possible convincing them that you fully agree with them, and that the Labour Party is the party which will more effectively implement the policies which they support, not the Tories.
Providing an alternative set of policies is simply likely to scare away Tory voters and suggest that Labour has fundamentally different aims to the Tories. Labour's selling point is that it is more competent and has greater integrity than the Tories but nevertheless shares the same values.
Another advantage of not having any alternative policies is that they can't be scrutinized and attacked by the Tories and the right-wing press.
There is very little to attack Labour on other than the fact that they don't have any policies. And some will even dismiss that criticism by claiming that the next general election is still two years away so they don't need any policies.
It allows Labour to focus on criticising the Tories lack of honesty, trustworthiness, and integrity, whilst not being burdened by the need to defend themselves from criticism.
As I say it is not a strategy which I agree with, or one which as the latest poll shows is particularly successful, but it is definitely a strategy.
My alternative strategy would be to energise and enthuse voters who are not natural Tory supporters (approximately two thirds of the electorate) by offering them a clear and credible alternative, whilst simultaneously providing a compelling case to traditional Tory voters as to why the alternative is better. Although an obvious requirement for the latter is a belief in it yourself.
And here’s me thinking Johnson had a bad week.
No Johnson had a pretty good week. Thanks in no small part to the single digit Labour lead, which no doubt will have convinced many Tory MPs that they have the opportunity to recover before the next general election in two years time.
I have no doubt that a huge Labour lead of maybe 15%, coupled with a confident and highly effective opposition, would have sealed Johnson's fate.
No Johnson had a pretty good week.
Vote of confidence? 11 billion Sunakkery? Rwanda ?
Politically he definitely had a bad week.
And here’s me thinking Johnson had a bad week.
Add to that a poll referred to in link below that suggests people prefer Johnson over Starmer even after all the shit he has been up to over the last few years
Observer article
It allows Labour to focus on criticising the Tories lack of honesty, trustworthiness, and integrity, whilst not being burdened by the need to defend themselves from criticism.
Though I would prefer ambitious forward looking policies this tact absolutely makes sense, when are they going to start?
Add to that a poll referred to in link below that suggests people prefer Johnson over Starmer even after all the shit he has been up to over the last few years
Observer article
According to that article Starmer's "main task" has been to focus on his own party, says "his team", not as you might have expected the Tories. Quote:
"His team say Starmer’s main task has been repairing the party’s internal workings after the strife during Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership."
And of course it gives them the opportunity to shift the blame into Corbyn for the fact that according to the poll voters would still prefer Johnson over Starmer even after all that has happened.
None of this I find in the least bit surprising. What I do find surprising however is how secure Starmer's position as leader is, especially when you consider just how far the PLP were prepared to publicly undermine the previous party leader.
It allows Labour to focus on criticising the Tories lack of honesty, trustworthiness, and integrity, whilst not being burdened by the need to defend themselves from criticism.
As evidenced this week by A.R getting ‘offended’ on behalf of Brummies** this week after a Tory minister had called it “Godawful”.
Instead of the faux, wokey offence, why not ask the Tories why any of our towns and cities should be “Godawful” after 12 years of their rule ? But I guess that might risk Labour having to explain how they would make Britain’s towns and cities less Godawful.
** I am a Brummie and really wasn’t offended by it at all. I’d fully expect a Tory minister to regurgitate an ill informed trope. The image of Brum being a shithole is firmly based in the racism of the 60s and Birmingham’s reputation as being a magnet for Commonwealth immigrants. Anyone who thinks that Brum is any more of a industrial/ post industrial eyesore than other U.K. places obviously hasn’t travelled that much.
What about Blackpool though eh...
Yeah, she probably had a point about Blackpool 😉
** see, it’s just a joke, no need to get offended by it all.
https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1535988101771890690?t=hqjB2Nfr0R4zU5d4PMLk6g&s=1
Yet again this is terrible.
How on earth does this communicate a message and direction of a political party?
I don't disagree with the ideas but the optics are useless.
Business security - what, like alarms and stuff mate?
Another hatchet job in the guardian. Seems like the centrist establishment has decided Starmer isn't their man.
Hatchet job? Hardly!
Reporting unsourced gossip critical of Starmer is absolutely a hatchet job. Especially coming from the guardian.
Reporting unsourced gossip critical of Starmer is absolutely a hatchet job. Especially coming from the guardian.
Most of the unnamed sources in the article are highly supportive of Starmer. They suggest that he's doing a great job sorting out the Labour Party, which it is claimed is his "main task" - not apparently providing the effective opposition to the Tories that the country is crying out for..... instead, looking inwards.
There was one sentence vaguely critical of Starmer but I saw the rest of the article as attempting to make excuses for the rather awkward headline at the top. Which is exactly what I would expect from the Guardian.
Jolyon Maugham mentioned changing leader on Twitter today in response to poor polling
Which is exactly what I would expect from the Guardian.
Maybe I’m being a tad cynical and suspicious but the guardian wouldn’t publish two gossipy pieces casting doubt on Starmer if there wasn’t an agenda behind it.
Starmer has the same problem most leaders have, they don't accept when the problem is them.
If I had been leader for 2 years against such a disaster as Johnson yet was still seen as a worse proposition for PM I would resign and let someone else have a go that may be able to be more successful. He has been successful in his life but he is clearly not good at this.
General observation:
One thing I've noticed in the last few years it's hard to get shut of a leader, irrespective of the situation.
In your brain you'd think after a couple of strikes they would be done but that's simply not what happens.
A leaders ability to just basically move on from yesterday's news is always a way out.
The Guardian: Stop calling me boring, Keir Starmer tells shadow cabinet.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/stop-calling-me-boring-keir-starmer-tells-shadow-cabinet
"Starmer has been accused by senior colleagues in recent days of failing to articulate clearly what Labour stands for or to enthuse the public about his leadership."
Sadly both those issues go beyond Starmer's capabilities imo.
What's his thoughts about the Rwanda situation?
Oh.
Too busy doing articles for the Telegraph currently.
No wonder certain members won't venture into this thread these days to support him.
Too busy doing articles for the Telegraph currently.
You mean the interview? You make it sound as if he’s writing a column for them, Boris Johnson style.
He seems to have mostly left challenging the deportation before asylum process policy to Cooper in parliament, and other front benchers like Lammy in the media. I don’t think that is accidental, they can see what the Tory plan is there. Anyway, the Rhwanda thread features some of Labour’s responses and actions on this.
Too busy doing articles for the Telegraph currently.
You mean the interview?
I doubt that is what rone meant. Giving an interview to the Daily Telegraph is not the same as writing an article for the Daily Telegraph. For example this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/31/britain-better-country-thanks-queen/
In which Keir Starmer deals with the pressing problem of Mrs Windsor's 70 years sitting on the throne and he tells Daily Telegraph readers what a great gal she is.
I hadn’t seen that one, from the headings it sounds excruciating.
Yeah there's a couple of pieces.
You mean the interview? You make it sound as if he’s writing a column for them, Boris Johnson style.
Yep.
In which Keir Starmer deals with the pressing problem of Mrs Windsor’s 70 years sitting on the throne and he tells Daily Telegraph readers what a great gal she
Tbf that's exactly the kind of shit telegraph readers get excited by
And he will need some of them to vote for him!
As for the boring comment, well he certainly can be! And in an age of clickbait and American style shock jocks, becoming the norm here, he's in trouble, because if there's one thing the crisis & scandal ridden Johnson isn't, it's boring!
He needs to get Tory voters to vote for him and I would say of all the Tory groups out there he's probably got a decent chance getting some of the Telegraph readers
I had a good laugh at this. And supports my view that there's an agenda to get rid of him.
Several of those around the table then echoed their leader’s calls for unity and discretion, in a lengthy exchange described by one shadow frontbencher as “ironically very boring”.
I see they're still pursuing the same line about Starmer's amazing job in 'rebuilding' the party, which I presume means his ruthless Stalinesque expulsion of anyone who has expressed a left wing opinion or talked to anyone with left win opinions. It confirms to me that was his only job. Now it's done he can f*** off and let someone who can actually do politics take over.
And I can see why he's a bit sensitive.. 😄
