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A turning point. Not towards labour though. Amazing that it will tory newspapers who will get rid of Starmer and not his MPs.
The obvious counter to the hay being that any gain Vs the huge losses seen in 2019 , represents a big turnaround in labours fortunes.
Coming out & saying he'd resign if he gets a fpn would be the right thing to do tho.
And i suspect he will
A turning point. Not towards labour though.
I am not sure its that clear cut although its a bit of a tricky issue for the centrists nuts.
The previous round of elections for these seats, under Corbyn, saw a massive increase in seats which makes it hard to get a further increase.
Really, the losses and gains went pretty much as expected, Labour were already in a strong position in terms of percentages in the seats going, Labour did well in the 2018 locals due to Brexit and the Tory meltdown of that year!
All i see from this result is that labour gained some, but the Lib Dems, who lost a lot of their vote share to the tories, have gained big, probably either through Lib Dems coming back naturally, or tories casting a protest vote.
It always astounds me that people think the disenchanted tories will suddenly vote labour, Lib Dems or greens are the natural vote for them, always has been, same with people moving from Labour, they won't suddenly vote Tory, they'll protest via the centrist party, it's how the Lib Dems got into a coalition!
The previous round of elections for these seats, under Corbyn, saw a massive increase in seats which makes it hard to get a further increase.
The remarkable increase in Green councillors suggests that there was more potential for Labour.
Anti-Tory voters who are dissatisfied with Labour would be naturally expected to gravitate towards the Greens, since the formation of the previous Tory/LibDem coalition government.
Likewise anti-Labour voters who are dissatisfied with the Tories are likely to gravitate towards the LibDems.
In general simplified terms of course.
I find it extremely bizarre
I agree. There are times to either put up or shut up, and this is one of those times. It should be an easy decision, that Starmer appears not to be confident enough to make the call just make him look weak.
Poor effort
Labour did well in the 2018 locals due to Brexit and the Tory meltdown of that year!
I distinctly remember on this forum remainers proudly announcing that they either hadn't voted Labour, or spoilt their ballot papers, to "teach Labour a lesson" for not being anti-brexit enough.
Edit: I particularly remember it because I thought at the time "but it's got bugger all to do with local elections".
It seems the green party also benefited from deranged labour campaigning. If this had a Tory badge on it no one would be surprised.
https://twitter.com/fisherandrew79/status/1523565924909187072?s=21&t=gdGMemL8rDKiQAwDBFDzBw
Ian Dunt this morning - agenda from the RW rags against Starmer.
Dunt 2017 - Corbyn and McDonnell making up media conspiracy against the left from the RW rags.
Also James o'Brien - months and months of Partygate coverage. Johnson law breaker ... On and on.
This morning . . Northern Ireland.
Centrist spin balls.
There are times to either put up or shut up, and this is one of those times.
He’s probably not allowed to. He’s still got work to do purging the last remaining lefties from the party. That’s much more important to the labour right than maintaining what little credibility he has left with the voters.
Honestly, can you stop hunting down Corbynites on twitter and posting their fake posters, this one, as well as the 'attack' on the Lib Dems had no link back to any Labour campaigning.
It's actually embarrassing seeing so many 'labour' voters linking or posting fake stuff that either the extreme right, or extreme left have created to try and throw dirt at 'Starmers' labour party.
I see Beer Starmer has cancelled an event today. Boris (Yeltsin) got food poisoning. Seems like food and drink causing some real problems here.
remainers proudly announcing that they either hadn’t voted Labour, or spoilt their ballot papers, to “teach Labour a lesson”
2018 was the first time I’d ever voted Labour in a local election. Labour took the council seat off of the Conservatives. This time around the winning margin was doubled. Onwards and upwards...
Wonder if Starmer will scribe any more articles for the Sun?
There are times to either put up or shut up, and this is one of those times.
I agree.
This won't lead to Johnson resigning though, whatever happens. He's only ever going with many hands pushing him out the door.
Wonder if Starmer will scribe any more articles for the Sun?
Arent the sun staying relatively quiet about it. They have rather a lot of baggage regarding a casual approach to lockdown rules from PE articles.
This won’t lead to Johnson resigning though, whatever happens.
I'm starting to believe that Johnson will declare Martial Law and establish himself at the head of a full on military dictatorship rather than leave number 10
Arent the sun staying relatively quiet about it.
They've had some full width web opinion pieces . Don't know about the paper itself.
I’m starting to believe that Johnson will declare Martial Law and establish himself at the head of a full on military dictatorship rather than leave number 10
It's more likely free balloons for every starving household for the Jubilee.
More labour voters think Starmer should resign than tory voters. Ouch!
Altogether now, 'They're all the same as each other'. Nice one Keir 🙄
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1523600637480824832?s=20&t=_A-6WP6UKQSIUbGmKdms2g
It’s more likely free balloons for every starving household for the Jubilee.
Free cake more likely.
Free cake more likely.
Lol
More labour voters think Starmer should resign than tory voters. Ouch!
Well that's hardly surprising is it? Surely even Starmer himself accepts that he should/would have to resign.
I'm not a huge Starmer fan but even I don't think he is so shameless that he wouldn't resign after receiving a fixed penalty notice, and saying for weeks that Johnson should do precisely that.
I still think likelihood of him getting a fine remains low & it seems inevitable he'll take that position and it would be the right thing to do, be very interesting to see what Johnson would say in that case
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1523615915643920384
Surely even Starmer himself accepts that he should/would have to resign.
You'd think so, but I bet there's quite a bit of panic among the labour right wing right now. A leadership election will derail their ongoing project to purge the party of the last remnants of the left. There's no obvious establishment successor to Starmer to do their dirty work. On the surface Streeting fits the bill but he's very inexperienced and a massive risk. Probably too much of a rabble rouser too and not boring enough. There's also the risk of a left wing resurgence, a small risk probably, but they haven't wiped out the left yet.
Well Labour would be truly screwed if Starmer didn't resign after being issued with a fixed penalty notice.
Labour's entire strategy has been built on attacking the hypocrisy and lack of integrity and honesty shown by Johnson, and very little else - certainly not providing an alternative vision.
The only way that they could possibly screw up more would be to challenge the fixed penalty notice.
it would be the right thing to do, be very interesting to see what Johnson would say in that case
The beauty for Johnson is that he wouldn't have to say anything, other than whispering "hoisted by your own petard fella" into his ear.
No way should Keir resign, regardless of the outcome, until Johnson does first.
That times article states 6 to 8 weeks to investigate 😯
Perfect window to get all the Met stuff out, while everyone's looking the other way.
I'm sure there will be another scandal to fill the void until then. Hopefully bozo getting a few more fines and some photos of him doing the conga.
Over to you Johnson
He's gambling that the tories don't have influence over the Chief Constable of Durham police, or if they do that they won't use it. That's quite a risk, and I'm not sure it's going to pay off.
The alternative is that a backroom deal has been done with the tories for a non-aggression pact on partygate. They'll influence the cops not to give him a FPN, and in return he'll stop pushing the partygate issue.
The alternative is that a backroom deal has been done with the tories for a non-aggression pact on partygate. They’ll influence the cops not to give him a FPN, and in return he’ll stop pushing the partygate issue.
thats certainly a theory ?!!?! but its nonsense
I think hes just certain that
A) hes done nothing wrong and that
B) as a lawyer & LOTO, hes gotta stick by the rules
I think he's messed it up already. too much dilly-dallying, even if now he says he'll resign people (tories) will say he is playing politics. He should have come out immediately and said it, rather thna have it leaked to the press.
You’d think so, but I bet there’s quite a bit of panic among the labour right wing right now. A leadership election will derail their ongoing project to purge the party of the last remnants of the left.
Honestly, what the hell does this statement even mean, Labour now have a right wing element that hell bent on removing all leftist thought, it's about as believable as those loveable Russians being oppressed and downtrodden by that nasty NATO.
I think hes just certain that
A) hes done nothing wrong and that
B) as a lawyer & LOTO, hes gotta stick by the rules
Like I said, he's gambling that the tories won't influence the investigation. That's a massive gamble considering there will be almost no way of him challenging the outcome. Boris will be sitting in his office wondering whether to pick up the phone and offer the CC of Durham a knighthood or peerage.
He’s gambling that the tories don’t have influence over the Chief Constable of Durham police, or if they do that they won’t use it. That’s quite a risk, and I’m not sure it’s going to pay off.
Irrelevant... it's a fixed penalty, if he is issued one, and the local police are corrupt, or simply just incorrect, he can appeal and take it to court for a proper hearing just like anyone else, unless your're saying the judicary has been bought by the tories too? in which case we're all in a lot more trouble than we thought.
I'm sure he knows this as he's an ex lawyer?
he can appeal and take it to court for a proper hearing just like anyone else
In theory he can challenge it but politically he'll be finished anyway. He's put his entire leadership in the hands of people who answer to a government which has already shown many times that it's willing to throw out the normal rules and do whatever is necessary to gain advantage. He's far more trusting of the police and the tories than most other people would be.
Let's be reasonable... there is no way could take it to court politically... that he would every legal right to is pretty much irrelevant in his position.
TBH if Johnson was going to influence the decision he'll more thank likely want Starmer to remain given the dire election results and complete lack of personality, vision and competence.
IF starmer pulls it off & gets no fine
It will make him look even better
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1523603648479371265
want Starmer to remain
You think he cares who is opposition leader? He just wants to keep his own title. And that's all this April 30th 2021 nonsense is about. Saving Johnson. Lots of Tory MPs were saying that they were waiting 'till after the local elections to decide whether to move on Johnson... so this has dominated the political and media chatter from the moment the bad results started coming in. People are barely talking about the results now, and having neutered that line, many MPs will be put back in their boxes. That this also provides cover for the Met to issue more of their fines is a glorious bonus for Johnson and his team. It couldn't be going better right now.
Daily Mail 3 : Labour 0
Daily Mail 3 : Labour 0
og Starmer,
og Starmer,
og Starmer
FTFY.
I might be being a bit thick here but I thought the reason BJ should resign over this wasn't the parties themselves but because he lied in Parliament about it.
The fixed penalties are just a fairly minor misdemeanour, but lying to Parliament is a breach of the ministerial code which in normal times results in a resignation.
AFAIK, Starmer has never denied the incident in Parliament, so why should he resign?
I think he’s messed it up already. too much dilly-dallying, even if now he says he’ll resign people (tories) will say he is playing politics. He should have come out immediately and said it, rather thna have it leaked to the press.
Absolutely this. Being a senior politician requires the individual to make quick, firm, and decisive decisions, to changing situations. I would expect it from a prime minister so no less so from a prime minister in waiting.
As soon as the police announced that they were going to reinvestigate the allegations Starmer should have publicly announced both his confidence in the police and that even if he had unwittingly broken the Covid restrictions and received a fixed penalty notice that he would resign.
Starmer has consistently and repeatedly insisted that Johnson and the Chancellor should resign for having received fixed penalty notices.
Leaving it for several days before making an announcement, which is widely accepted that he should make, simply makes it look as if he wasn't sure whether he would resign.
So that now even if he is found to have done nothing wrong by the police people will be suspicious about whether he is, like all other politicians, a massive hypocrite who despite calling for Johnson to resign wouldn't have resigned himself.
Starmer had the opportunity to grab the high ground, which is mostly what he is attempting to do in his battles with Johnson, and he missed an open goal
Being a senior politician requires the individual to make quick, firm, and decisive decisions, to changing situations. I would expect it from a prime minister so no less so from a prime minister in waiting.
Johnson, after his many lies to parliament were uncovered, has been refusing to answer any direct questions for months because we're "waiting for Sue Gray" or "waiting for the Police report"... but Starmer has to resolve things in 48 hours?
So that now even if he is found to have done nothing wrong by the police people will be suspicious about whether he is, like all other politicians
Well, that is whole point of this mud slinging... they can't redeem Johnson's reputation, but they can pile in on the "they're all the same" angle. They aren't. Johnson is in another league. None of this is in anyway equivalent to the month of lock down parties in 2020, and the many attempts to deny, explain away, and now just get people to forget about them.