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Starmer shouldn't have based his whole strategy on this premise. It was an utter waste of time.
Clearly he did start to turn towards the cost of living in the last few weeks. Wonder why?
He's clearly not as forensic as everyone thought otherwise he'd have cleared this up ages ago.
The press and the people have got it now, and that makes it too late in the minds of the electorate.
Polls will be interesting!
Dissonance saying to kelvin
I know you are a factional extremist
That's a contender for post of the year. Irony overload.
🤣
It's pretty straightforward. If he's handed a FPN he'll have to resign. I personally think the "new information coming to light" doesn't appear amount to much, and one of the DM's sources seems to change his own story every time he's asked.
What is this ridiculous thing she said?
I don't think she said anything ridiculous. For the record though, as we're all being fair minded about COVID restriction law breaking, she didn't say anything when Corbyn was accused of the same thing. To pretend that she's not being factional is pretty myopic; no?
Harsh fact is that Starmer has used the No10 parties to call for Boris to resign, and even though this doesn't compare in scale, if any fines are issued, he has to resign to avoid the obvious hypocrisy.
Whether Labour can then get a leader who will inspire the public more, I don't know.
Clearly he did start to turn towards the cost of living in the last few weeks. Wonder why?
You are being very generous, 10 days before the local elections there was a row in Cabinet when Lisa Nandy told Starmer to stop talking about partygate and focus on the cost of living crisis.
Something which he appears to have done in the final days. However whilst most people are fully aware of what Starmer thinks Johnson should do with regards to partygate they don't have a clue how Labour would resolve the cost of living crisis.
Come on Ernie where's the rest?
Sorry!
For the record though, as we’re all being fair minded about COVID restriction law breaking, she didn’t say anything when Corbyn was accused of the same thing. To pretend that she’s not being factional is pretty myopic; no?
What would have Corbyn resigned from?
And was DA on LBC being asked a question about it?
You are being very generous, 10 days before the local elections there was a row in Cabinet when Lisa Nandy told Starmer to stop talking about partygate and focus on the cost of living crisis
Yes I remember this and she went up in my estimation. She clearly figured out where the battle ground should be.
Sorry that should of course have said "Shadow Cabinet" - ironically I'm posting at the same time as trying to get ready for a club bike ride!
Daily Mail 1 : Labour 0
Daily Mail (proving they have near-ultimate power over the electorate): 1.
Democracy: 0.
Very sad state of affairs.
The sad thing is that there's been a few 'leaks' on this one, which again just shows there's parties within the party, i guess if they (and a few on here) get their wish of a fine being dished out and Starmer resigning, another labour suicide will really push for another 5 years of tory rule.
The sad thing is that there’s been a few ‘leaks’ on this one
https://twitter.com/avasantina/status/1521802204176343040?s=21
If Starmer was to be removed, he’d be forgotten by Christmas. But this false equivalence between an April ‘21 campaign trail eat up and what Johnson and his team did throughout the harshest periods of lockdown in ‘20 all serves one person. Well, two… Lord Rothermere and, as a means to that end, Johnson. Life long inherited non-dom tax status safe for Lord Rothermere, another few years on the throne for the man playing at being PM.
Who?
She doesn’t say who… it’s all anonymous sources…
…all just tittle tattle and incomplete or simply incorrect details, assumptions, framings and conclusions drawn from other people’s reports. That’s where political journalism is this days more generally though, isn’t it (excluding Private Eye). Political reporting is now showbiz reporting.
If Starmer was to be removed, he’d be forgotten by Christmas.
He's replaceable, if they get the right candidate, but you've still got to have the whole leadership election and the nightmare that'll bring before and after, at a time when the focus should be on something else.
I do think he’s pulled the pin on his own hand grenade.
The whole Rayner thing,either by accident looks bad and the work type argument isn’t the best ground.
Even if he’s innocent there’s enough doubt or facts to create doubt and it just looks simply like another one rule for us one for them that sort of negates his attack strategy on the tories.
IMHO He’s gonna get hoisted by his own petard.
He’s replaceable, if they get the right candidate, but you’ve still got to have the whole leadership election and the nightmare that’ll bring before and after, at a time when the focus should be on something else
Yep, trouble is they’re possibly in the same position as the tories, no real obvious successor the whole farf of leadership election may not play out well to the public.
and what should the focus be on,they have to be electable and they seem to be always bring a knife to gunfight.
Standing totally back I would just sooner they both got slapped off and removed for all sorts of reasons - even if Johnson is way ahead in the shit stakes. Johnson has made a mess of everything and Starmer hasn't pushed back enough.
Fresh start all round. I don't care who they've both got baggage.
Hard to disagree @rone. If I were Starmer I be saying something like "If I get a FPN of course I'll resign, but in the meantime let's talk about the cost of living crisis as it's more important" I can well imagine which bit of that the media would decide would be the more important topic.
Once again, multi billionaire off shore libertarian disaster capitalists are getting vocal about who most threatens their piles of money.
what a time to be alive
Well @nickc this is why my framing is always going to be neoliberalism itself.
And I know it's a difficult battle.
Have to agree Rone. But Johnson isn’t going, even if Starmer does. Someone else resigning will make no difference to him. He’ll keep pushing things into the long grass ‘till the public are bored of them, and then promise to get rid of them if they keep him as PM.
“Only I, Boris Johnson, can help the party/country move on from the mess created by Boris Johnson.”
Why don't we just cut out the middle man and accept that the country is ruled by the Daily Mail. Much simpler that way.
Not entirely. The DMGT haven’t bought the Telegraph and Sun yet. Give it another 10 to 15 years. The owner retaining non-dom status and a continued hands off (friendly media) approach by Conservative governments should help keep it affordable and within regulations.
Have to agree Rone. But Johnson isn’t going, even if Starmer does.
Yep. That scenario could happen I guess.
Why don’t we just cut out the middle man and accept that the country is ruled by the Daily Mail. Much simpler that way
But that's not really new is it?
Not at all. But it’s worth remembering, whether it’s Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer or whoever is next being done over. That this thread is now almost entirely following a Daily Mail story and angle is telling about the possible reach. Other media outlets, politicians, the police… all have to consider what Lord Rothermere wants and can do.
Maybe though this thread is just reacting to new information.
I first saw it on the BBC for instance.
I think it's possible to recognise both positions that the mail has an agenda etc - and there maybe further information that legitimately queries Starmer's position.
Personally I think there's been a lack of clarity from Starmer and co - with information that has now come to light that might mean rules have been broken due to the complexity at the time.
Still doesn't mean he's bad in the same way Johnson is bad.
But there is a similarity with what happened to Sunak which Starmer condemned.
It's complicated. And we will see.
This is the problem, all of Boris/Sunak/etc events were during full lockdown pre December 2020, they were at his place of residence and they had bring a bottle emails going round, the Durham by-election was April 2021 under Tier 2 conditions, and about 300 miles from his place of residence.
The change in COVID rules is massive as well, all the 'i couldn't visit my gran' or 'i missed my gran's funeral' while they partied is completely different in April/May 2021.
I first saw it on the BBC for instance.
Precisely.
As someone who listens to the BBC Today Programme most mornings, there is nearly always a Daily Mail story being talked about, and politicians being asked questions about that story.
But there is a similarity with what happened to Sunak which Starmer condemned.
That's fair. Apart from the timing. And what was happening. And the laws and rules at the time. I couldn't celebrate a birthday with family, friends or coworkers in that first 2020 lockdown, unless I lived with them. April 2021 was very different.
Makes me laugh, I'm not really pro Labour, and for sure I'm anti conservative.
Of all the crap Boris has done, prorouging parliamnet, Lying to the house pretty much any time he opens his mouth (sorry, not lying in the legal sense, just never telling the truth).
And the general pubilc are angry about him having a naughty drink?
If this is what brings him down, I'll take it, but jeeeeezzz...
Makes you wonder what a good PM (according to the great british pubilc) actually looks like.
Conserviatives are clearly going all out on the Starmer lockdown thing so they can claim a quid pro-quo on the whole thing.
It's nauseatingly petty and transparent. What's even more nauseatingly petty and transparent is that the voting public seem to be fundamentally stupid and will go along with it.
And the general pubilc are angry about him having a naughty drink?
No, they aren't. It's not about a cake, or a quick bottle of champagne. Read even the short released version of the preliminary Sue Gray report. Or better still Private Eye, to see just how much they were taking the piss during 2020, while severely restricting our behaviour by law. Probably best for the Boris Johnson thread though.
No, they aren’t. It’s a not about a cake, or a quick bottle of champagne. Read even the short released version of the Sue Gray report. Or better still Private Eye, to see just how much they were taking the piss during 2020, while restricting our behaviours by law. Probably best for the Boris Johnson thread though.
I think I edited my post as you were writing yours.
Sorry.
The best bit of damage limitation PR of all this was Conor Burns delivering the "ambushing by cake" line, when no one else had mentioned anything about cake. Genius bit of deflection, I have to give them that. No one in the Labour team could come up with that kind of effective news narrative and public chatter setting nonsense. In that regard they are very second rate to this team.
Anyway, I agree with you, the false equivalence is likely to be accepted by much of the public. I think this is as much because of how it is reported in "unbiased" media as it is because of how the Conservatives directly spin it in the friendly press. Doesn't help when Starmer now has so many enemies and detractors who'll happily join in reinforcing the false equivalence, and help Johnson and the Conservatives out of a hole.
Yea I agree, no apology needed 🙂
I'm not a huge fan of Starmer, or Labour in general, but I'd take them over the tories at the moment, in a heartbeat.
But if you were starmer, what could you actually do that he isn't already doing?
That the conservatives are still polling reasonably strongly suggests deeper issues with voter eduacation and apathy, something I imagine that the conservatives are quite pleased about, and dare I say, activley working to keep the populous dumb and angry, it's working quite well for them.
the voting public seem to be fundamentally stupid
Yep.
If you read the complexities of what constitutes a work gathering or even then going to another room or meeting later then I'm not surprised by all this.
Perhaps the law was never that clear?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1523358074043604994?t=rvuqJa8t29NnhGWrU3Xd9Q&s=19
Dunno. This is very much at the limit of my understanding.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1523217168334483456?t=8pkGB9v7DukH431DBWtZKg&s=19
What is missing from Maugham's tweet is included by a later poster:
Exceptions:
the gothering is reasonably necessary for the purposes of campaigning in an election or a referendum
I think that exception only applied to doorstep campaigning, ie meeting a member of public one to one outside their front door, so isn’t really relevant.
Radio4 Today Programme is all about “beergate” again this morning. No mention of new fines for a No10 Christmas party (the one Allegra Stratton resigned over, because she was caught on tape practising defending it if it was to become public). Job jobbed. Deflection complete.
Daily Mail 2 : Labour 0
Let's have the police investigation - if Starmer is clean then he comes out better off in my opinion.
Can't see the issue.
He's not turning up to some event or other today is he?
if Starmer is clean then he comes out better off in my opinion.
He could enhance his reputation even more by saying, right now, publicly, "if the police issue me with a fixed penalty notice I will resign".
I find it extremely bizarre that he appears incapable of saying that. It would undoubtedly gain him respect in the eyes of voters after endlessly calling for Johnson to resign. He really isn't very good at his job.
Edit: It would also make him appear very confident. The less confident he sounds the more the media are going to take an interest in the story, understandably.
Radio4 Today Programme is all about “beergate” again this morning.
The LOTO is the subject of a police investigation, having previously called for the PM to resign when he was being investigated. It's clearly a significant story, whether we like it or not.
As Ernie says, he could easily take the moral high ground...
A turning point. Not towards labour though. Amazing that it will tory newspapers who will get rid of Starmer and not his MPs.
https://twitter.com/trickyjabs/status/1523371118077296640?s=21&t=gdGMemL8rDKiQAwDBFDzBw