The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time.
That's a weird way to say that they lost an election but yes had they won it they would have continued. Obviously New Labour took the batten and were able to carry on privatising without any effective opposition, see PFI as an example.
No wonder New Labour was backed by Rupert Murdoch and described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest achievement.
Btw glad you brought up railway privatisation binners. It was totally opposed by Labour, Thatcher made one failed attempt to privatise it, John Major managed it, New Labour were so opposed to it (allegedly) that they made a general election pledge to re-nationalise it.
But they were of course too busy privatisating when in government to do such a thing.
Yeah, yeah, we get it.
I don't like previous labour governments because they weren't labour enough for my liking
Its only the labour governments that were labour enough that I like, despite the fact that they don't exist as theres never one actually been elected, while any of us here have actually been alive.
I'm sure there will be a labour government elected one day thats labour enough for me...
One day...
possibly...
I hope so at least...
In the meantime... those bloody Israeli's eh? What are they like?
Yeah, yeah, we get it.
I don’t like previous labour governments because they weren’t labour enough for my liking
You obviously don't binners, you don't get it at all.
Every great reform in the last century which has benefited working people, and still benefits working people today, was implemented by a Labour Government.
The sort of reforms which you would have gone into a ranting meltdown over denouncing them as left-wing extremist nonsense.....a free universal healthcare, equal gender pay, decriminalisation of homosexuality, health and safety at work, the criminalisation of racial hatred, Open University, ending capital punishment, etc etc.
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence. Do you think it was because it was a vote winner among its white Anglo-Saxon voters?
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence.
That was handled well, wasn't it.
These history lessons are great... why are they in this thread?
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
Because binners brought it up with this sneering contemptuous remark :
"I don’t like previous labour governments because they weren’t labour enough for my liking"
He wants to portray the issue as the only choice is New Labour or nothing. That opposition to New Labour is opposition to Labour.
New Labour wasn't Labour, they even changed the name precisely to make that point clear, ffs.
New Labour wasn’t Labour, they even changed the name precisely to make that point clear, ffs.
There was only two words in the name and one of them is 'Labour'
That's quite Laboury
As Laboury as a labour ward, in fact
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
It gets a tad boring waiting for Starmer to demonstrate his carefully laid traps so have to do something. Especially now Johnson has figured out how easy Starmer is handled at PMQs by virtue of just ignoring him.
Because binners brought it up with this sneering contemptuous remark
So... we go all the way back to the partition of India, when some rich posh dude was PM under a Labour ticket? That was literally another political age.
Especially now Johnson has figured out how easy Starmer is handled at PMQs by virtue of just ignoring him.
Not answering the question will still be Johnson's MO when he gets to face whoever Starmer is replaced by. And the speaker will still be slapping him down to help Johnson persist with his "rules and truth are not for me, look upon by strength through ignorance" approach... bar a short honeymoon period... any Labour leader will face the same fate.
That’s quite Laboury
But not as Laboury as just calling it Labour.
Which of course was the point..... this wasn't just the Labour Party that everyone knew. This was something quite different, this was, in fact, New Labour.
And yet binners you want to peddle this nonsense that there is/was no alternative to New Labour.
You think that if you repeat TINA often enough it makes it true, a lesson learnt from Thatcher no doubt.
That was literally another political age.
In case you haven't noticed so was New Labour.
Yet binners wants to keep reliving 1997.
And bringing up false nonsense, such as claiming that a Labour government was responsible for designing the Austin Allegro, when discussing present-day nationalisation.
Oh, I thought he was replying. I'd much rather be talking about more recent Labour governments as well.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
Question:
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
Answer part 1:
ernielynch
Answer part 2:
How about talking about future Labour governments?
That would be even better.
Better than talking about Attlee and partition in a thread about the current party leader.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
There won't be any if they insist on making themselves unelectable to the people who now feel alienated by the ENP (formerly the Conservatives).
Who mentioned partition??? That's the first I've heard it mentioned. You want to talk about it?
Binners would like to talk about anything as long as it's not about Starmer.
Not answering the question will still be Johnson’s MO when he gets to face whoever Starmer is replaced by.
As a radical idea though Starmer could try adjusting his position. Even just asking the same question everytime would be better than his current attempts.
Binners would like to talk about anything as long as it’s not about Starmer.
Thats not entirely true he quickly pivots to a new subject when he is proved wrong on the old one. Although admittedly he does seem to have a habit of dusting them off again later.
Who mentioned partition???
This guy...
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence. Do you think it was because it was a vote winner among its white Anglo-Saxon voters?
Bang up to date, and something for us all to ponder about.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
There won't be any if Binners has his way, just continual neo-liberal socialism for the rich and ever increasing authoritarianism to keep the plebs in line when they inevitably kick off. People talk of disaster capitalism or the ludicrous idea of disaster socialism, when in reality it's the other way round. Centrism with it's head in the sand conservative elitism is the disaster, but not many can see it yet because just enough of us are still living relatively comfortable lives. It's not going to last.
Bang up to date, and something for us all to ponder about.
No mention of partition there.
Sounds like that history lesson is needed then. But can we save it for another thread?
Centrism with it’s head in the sand conservative elitism is the disaster
Sounds like that history lesson is needed then.
I do love yours and Binners sneering condescension. It was you who confused independence of India with the partition of India. Even those like Attlee who werent opposed to independence werent pro partition and tried to avoid it but failed.
It was you who confused independence of India with the partition of India.
Er... what the actual ****?
Kelvin I know you're missing Binner's pictures but really you should try harder. Unless I've missed something and you find the words 'centrism', 'conservative' and 'elitism' tricky to understand. Let me paraphrase in council estate scum vernacular. They're all a bunch of arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****! That better?
really you should try harder
I can't hope to get close to Binners on this... I'm hoping he'll be pushed into delivering more visual content by my awful attempts.
They’re all a bunch of arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****!
Who are "they"? Anyone not as left leaning as us? No wonder it's hard to win people over.
Who are “they”? Anyone not as left leaning as us? No wonder it’s hard to win people over.
Yes kelvin, as you keep reminding us, it's totally fine when binners repeatedly makes insulting generalisations about the Dead 'Ard Left but if anyone else does it you'll put on your thread police badge and jump right in and make sure they get told off.
Er… what the actual ****?
You claimed someone said partition when they didnt. They talked about the independence of India as a policy which Attlee championed having been in favour for years.
The partition of India followed from that but was not inevitable and not something supported by Attlee and the British government. Mountbatten was given orders to try and avoid it.
So it shows a poor grasp of political history to decide one meant the other with regards to Attlee.
When Binners says all the left share the same views and approach, I call him out. I think I did on the page before this one in this thread. That's no more useful or helpful than Dazh doing the same for people he views as centrists. Both these groups need to work together (in the Labour Party and/or across multiple parties) or it's Tory rule for the rest of our lives (I may have made that point already).
Who are “they”?
The politicians of all parties who refuse to defend the interests of normal working people and act as apologists for tiny number of people who benefit at everyone else's expense. Obvs.
That's nice and vague. What about current Labour MPs... are any of them "arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****" ? Would you label Starmer in such a way?
This guy…
Yeah only I didn't. You are obviously pretending that you don't understand the purpose of my reference.
Binners was very clearly suggesting, as he often does, that Israel's behaviour should be of no concern whatsoever to the Labour Party or a Labour government because it is not an issue of high priority for Labour voters.
When he falsely accused me of never thinking that a Labour government was ever going to be Labour enough he also threw in the contemptuous Israel comment.
I provided a list of achievements by past Labour governments and also pointed out that a Labour government could still have an ethical foreign policy even if the plight of brown people in distant far off lands wasn't the number one priority in most Labour voters minds.
Hope that helps.
Did the Brits give independence or did the Indians win it?
I provided a list of achievements by past Labour governments and also pointed out that a Labour government could still have an ethical foreign policy even if the plight of brown people in distant far off lands wasn’t the number one priority in most Labour voters minds.
India was part of the British Empire at that point. How it was handled was central to the role of the British government. It was forced into action by those that live there. I wouldn't hold up the way Labour handled that period, for that region of the world, as one of a list of "achievements by past Labour governments". The lessons to be learnt there are very much about the failures of government. Obviously far from the fault alone of that Labour government.... but.. an "achievement"?!?
are any of them
Yeah loads of them, Starmer included. They're so wrapped up in their careers and what they think is acceptable and within the rules of establishment politics they've completely lost sight of what they should be doing and what's in the best interests of working people.
Who else? Everyone in his cabinet? Or are there some that pass your tests working away in that team?
Or are there some
Not many TBH.
Well, that is depressing. There are definitely some I prefer to others... but even those I disagree with, or think are bit a useless, or perhaps self-concerned... a quick look at their opposite number on the government benches soon puts that into perspective.
one of a list of “achievements by past Labour governments”.
Yes mate "achievement", independence for India was an achievement which Labour should be proud of, Eric Heffer often spoke of it. Most other European colonial powers, France, Spain, Portugal, fought hard not give up their colonies post WW2, a British Labour government willingly granted the Jewel in the British Empire independence.
Btw any cyclists on this thread? I am currently trying to remove an aluminium seized seatpost from a steel frame.
I've just tried a hot air gun but according to Sheldon Brown aluminium expands twice as much as steel, so obviously not helping.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
WD40 then hit it with a big soft hammer?
For weeks I've been squirting dismantling lube into the area, today I got the heat gun out. Sat next to it now defeated ☹️
Sheldon Brown suggest CO2 on the aluminium seat post to shrink it. Anyone tried that before I waste a CO2 cylinder?
Ernie if all else fails I believe there's a man in Lancashire somewhere called 'the seatpost man' who claims to be able to free any seatpost. I'll ask around for his details. 🙂
Seatpost in a vice and then turn the frame?
