Labour cannot be anywhere near ‘united’ unless the right wing neoliberal elite are removed from the party.
So when you say 'united' you actually mean 'anyone who doesn't agree with me can **** right off!'? Yeah, that'll work. Electorally successfully are usually representative of really narrow idealogical political sects. Broad churches get nowhere.
and leave the Labour party to those who do actually want to see societal change
How are they going to achieve that with the 12 members of the electorate who will actually vote for them? What you really mean is turn a political party into a sixth form gang of placard wavers. Again. Its worked well so far, hasn't it? Let's carry on ploughing that highly rewarding furrow, eh?
Good luck with that particular 'project'
You do know that to effect any change whatsoever you need to persuade enough of the electorate to actually vote for you?
Which is what we ended up with under Blair
Really?
We've been over this repeatedly on this and other threads. To compare 13 years of Nu Labour rule to what the Torys would have done had they remained in power for those 13 years is absolutely ridiculous. If you'd have had the Torys in power for that time the country would have been unrecognisably different by the end of that term.
If you do genuinely believe that ludicrous assertion to be the case then you really are living on another planet
So when you say ‘united’ you actually mean blah blah blah blah blah...
Rod Liddle; spilled his dinner down his shirt...
Does the Rose and Crown have the football match on tonight?
Bojo smashed SKS today. SKS started well but Bojo got him at the end.
"So the only difference is facemasks on public transport and you support everything else we are doing? Thats great"
Binners in the Rose and Crown with his Daily Mail. Surely he cant read the Guardian with the anti- union, anti- foreigner bollocks he comes up with on here?
So, PMQs. I can't be arsed to listen to that braying shitshow, but let me guess...
Starmer said it was irresponsible to go full balls-deep, **** everything, it is total freedom to do what the hell we like in a couple if weeks.
Johnson basically called him a girly cissy and hinted he was unpatriotic in his lack of faith in the great British bunch of nobheads public.
Am I pretty much there?
Lol! There is actually a pub called the Rose and Crown, in a place called Ramsbottom, so that bit we know is true. The rest of it? Who knows. Are they playing the football match tonight? Again, who knows. Can anyone shed any light on that matter?
Anti-union, anti-foreigner?
Eh?
Because I don’t like Len McClusky very much? You know that ‘Scouse’ isn’t a race, right? No matter what they try and claim 😂
Anyway, good to see you all back on the subject of my local boozer again. It must be a good 12 hours since you last mentioned it
Have you considered therapy for your rather unhealthy obsession?
“So the only difference is facemasks on public transport and you support everything else we are doing? Thats great”
Yup, he's just a troll. Picked on one example, and pretended that was the whole debate.
Am I pretty much there?
Pretty much. Didn't answer any questions at all, just asked Starmer pre-prepared questions (most of which Starmer had only just given the answer to in his own question, but Johnson can pretend not to have heard any of that detail... in fact, doing so is a show of strength). The Speaker pulled him up on it twice... but Johnson just ignored him and kept going (again, repeatedly brushing aside the speaker and rules of parliament is a show of strength for him).
I liked the "Johnson Variant" jibe though! That could work.
Boris now just completely ignores Starmers questions and just repeats his same pre-prepared vaccine-related soundbites
You vacillate, we vaccinate
Ad nauseam
SKS should have just picked on the mask on public transport thing rather than the whole lot. Too easy for Boris to fudge his way out.
Do you want to see societal change, or not?
You need to ask the majority of voters that question and the answer will be a clear No.
Do you think more voters vote for Tory MPs than any other party for a laugh or because they actually like what the Tories do?
May be news to you but not everyone wants the same society as you want.
SKS should have just picked on the mask on public transport thing rather than the whole lot.
Well, that's obviously what Johnson was expecting him to do, hence the pre-prepared answer that he still used as if he had.
So when you say ‘united’ you actually mean ‘anyone who doesn’t agree with me can **** right off!’? Yeah, that’ll work. Electorally successfully are usually representative of really narrow idealogical political sects. Broad churches get nowhere.
Wow, you have changed your tune binners.
Up until today you had zero tolerance of those on the left of the party and fully supported disciplinary action and expulsions. Views which you have profoundly expressed with exceptional eloquence.
When did you experience this remarkable 'road to Damascus moment'.......sometime this morning after reading Bridge's post?
Will you be back to despising the left in the Labour Party tomorrow?
Will your political somersaulting continue unabated until the end of this thread?
You think this thread will ever end?
I admire your optimism
My point is that the much despised Blair (boo hiss... IRAQ!!!) put up with the likes of Corbyn, voting against their own party at every turn, with the view that he was just a curious oddball and yet was still part of the same 'broad church' party.
'The Left' as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A 'broad church' approach is anathema to them
In fact, it's their defining characteristic along with their lofty pious, sanctimonious self-righteousness (also oft demonstrated on this thread) and their absolute uncompromising conviction that they are absolutely right about everything and everyone else is wrong and thus morally inferior.
That winning combination is unlikely to tempt many into voting for them, especially if, as suggested, everyone who can be referred to as 'moderate' must be purged from the party in the name of idealogical purity.
So what's being suggested here isn't even a political party, at all. It's a protest group
Will your political somersaulting continue unabated until the end of this thread?
As a casual thread observer it seems to have turned into the “have a go at Binners” thread.
It became that a long time ago. I'm being ganged up on by lefties. Poor me.
To paraphrase Morrisey
"And now I know how Margaret Hodge felt..."
As a casual thread observer it seems to have turned into the “have a go at Binners” thread.
That is because he is not a naive ideological dreamer living in a country where he pretends that most of the people don't actually want a Tory party and must want whatever they are prescribing for them.
It's not all great though, he still relies way too much on tired images but I sometimes think he has a virus on his computer than randomly posts those.
I miss the images. They haven't been in use nearly as much as they used to be. More Python please.
and their absolute uncompromising conviction that they are absolutely right about everything and everyone else is wrong and thus morally inferior.
And yet you talk about people with half a brain and anyone with an opposing point of view as "utterly clueless".
Up until this morning I didn't have you down as a champion of the broad church approach.
I generally spare my 'utterly clueless' remarks for those truly deserving of the description, of which there are a great many.
Thats hardly my fault, is it?
Up until this morning I didn’t have you down as a champion of the broad church approach.
Oh, I've always been that, comrade. I'm just also a fan of the political darwinism where the naturally useless gravitate to the fringes (or allotments) where they belong (what Malcolm Tucker referred to as 'out by the bins'), leaving the grown-ups to get on with the important stuff
I actually hope that the present state of the Tory party is unsustainable for long as its done exactly what labour did 5 years ago and appointed absolute clowns to senior positions, based purely on their ideology, rather than any degree of competence
I miss the images. They haven’t been is use nearly as much as they used to be.
That's the problem with relentless attacks on binners, I am fully aware that this is a vague risk that he might moderate his style.
Which of course would be disastrous. As I have consistently said it is only binners input in political threads which make them lively and interesting for me.
I find most of the other posts dreary and boring.
If you’d have had the Torys in power for that time the country would have been unrecognisably different by the end of that term.
You know you cant simply announce something as fact and have it be so. The evidence really isnt clear on the matter. We can take, for example, that even Thatcher believed there should be limits on the policies being pursued if for no other reason than if they went too extreme then the opposition could utilise it as an attack line. However once new labour charged rightwards after them the new baseline was shifted hard to the right.
It is unclear whether the tories would have been able to shift it so dramatically on their own and announcing that any suggestion otherwise is deluded is frankly moronic.
‘The Left’ as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A ‘broad church’ approach is anathema to them
And yet it is consistently the right of the party which engages in ideological purges.
it’s their defining characteristic along with their lofty pious, sanctimonious self-righteousness
Thank you for, as always, dedicatedly repeating the hard right attack lines.
If you think 13 years of Nu Labour looked anything like 13 years of Tory rule, in any kind of reality, you need your bumps feeling
Thank you for, as always, dedicatedly repeating the hard right attack lines.
Its hardly just the opinion of the 'hard right' by which I presume you mean everyone to the right of Dennis Skinner?
However once new labour charged rightwards after them the new baseline was shifted hard to the right.
It is unclear whether the tories would have been able to shift it so dramatically on their own ...
Yup. The Tories can only ever attack Labour from a right-wing position, for obvious reasons they can't criticise from a left-wing angle.
The further a Labour government moves to the right the further it pushes the Tories to the right.
Well I say that but we are bizarrely now risking the possibility of the Tories actually taking on occasions a more left-wing position than Labour, see corporation tax as a possible example.
‘The Left’ as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A ‘broad church’ approach is anathema to them
This from the man who relentlessly attacks and bullies anyone who dares suggest that Labour should stand for something more than a slightly wet Tory party.
Have I been bullying you? Really? All of you?
U OK HUN? XX
I'm like Gripper Stebson of STW
This from the man who relentlessly attacks and bullies anyone who dares suggest that Labour should stand for something more than a slightly wet Tory party.
he really is trumplike in how he projects his own failings onto everyone he disagrees with.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo... are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I'm too much of a perfectionist......
😀
If you think 13 years of Nu Labour looked anything like 13 years of Tory rule, in any kind of reality, you need your bumps feeling
PFI is a reasonably good example. It has been disastrous for the NHS and the country. It was an idea conceived by a Tory government but massively expanded by 'Nu Labour'.
The reason a Labour government was able to expand it so massively was because there was no effective opposition to it. Had a Tory government been in power Labour would have opposed it root and branch, as they did indeed all other Tory government privatisations.
Yup PFI has been an absolute disaster that we are still paying for, which strangely New Labour fanboys never seem to talk about.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo… are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I’m too much of a perfectionist……
Ah, he's back on form...... spouting gibberish as only binners can. And with pictures an all!
Welcome back binners 😉
Had a Tory government been in power Labour would have opposed it root and branch, as they did indeed all other Tory government privatisations.
And how many of those privatisations did they stop?
Just refresh my memory....
See what i mean about 'the left' being incapable of elevating itself beyond the mindset of the protest group?
Placard-wavers, and nothing more, seeking refuge in their own righteousness, unencumbered, as they always will be, by the compromises required with power
Oh cool binners is back to make the thread all about him again by repeating the same childish insults for the 72938028th time.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo… are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I’m too much of a perfectionist……
Try to contain your excitement about all this attention, it's not becoming.
See what i mean about ‘the left’ being incapable of elevating itself beyond the mindset of the protest group?
Probably a good point to pop in a reminder that much of "the left" are nothing like that. They are, in the main, practical, cooperative and very, very keen to help form an alternative government to the Conservative Party in the shape of the Labour Party. It is undeniable that many do fit your disruption... but please don't weigh their numbers using the amount of noise they make as a guide.
Oh cool binners is back to make the thread all about him again
I didn't make the thread about me. You lot did. As always.
You started it!! So there!!
See what i mean about ‘the left’
I remember when all Labour Party supporters considered themselves to be part of 'the left'.
And how many of those privatisations did they stop?
It limited privatisation to what the Tories thought they could get away with.
One of the first things 'Nu Labour' decided on becoming the government was, after years of opposing privatisation, that the Tories hadn't privatised enough and a lot more was needed.
Yeah, everything's relative though.
Would you be more comfortable with Looney Left or Far Left?
It limited privatisation to what the Tories thought they could get away with.
They clearly thought they could get away with anything then.
The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time. They rushed rail privatisation through in about a week as they knew they were about to get turfed out of office
Would you be more comfortable with Looney Left or Far Left?
Can I have Hard Left please? I've always wanted to sound hard.
Consider it done, you hard left bastard! 😀
It became that a long time ago. I’m being ganged up on by lefties. Poor me.
Yeah, but if you just stop posting for a bit, when you come back they'll have all split off into individual factions - criticising each other for their revisionism.
😂
The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time.
Absolute drivel. We could start with Thatchers famous comment about "not prepared to have the Queen's head privatised" and the threatened back bench rebellions around Heseltines proposals.
Or even how New Labour weaponised it in 97 before backtracking on it rapidly and utilising PFI which pushed it far further than before.
