Felicity, felicity, you fill me with electricity…
In the event, they lost their overall majority.
They got one easy enough, though.
And of course on the biggest issue of the day - Brexit - they could rely on the Lexiteer leader of the opposition to three line whip his MPs to slavishly support their anti-EU, right wing agenda at every juncture, thus rendering the term ‘opposition’ somewhat academic
I guess we’ll all have to hold our breath and wait for the bright socialist sunny uplands that the ‘Leader of HM Opposition’ believed Brexit will usher in
Looking good so far, isn’t it?
FFS I've just seen this :
Navendu Mishra, the MP for Stockport said the “divisive” leaflet sought to turn communities against each other and exposed a “hierarchy of racism” within the party.
He added: “We beat our opponents based on policies, not by dog-whistle racism.”
The Labour Party has descended into the gutter under Starmer. It is now using racist tactics of attempting to turn ethnic minorities against each in a desperate attempt to hold onto a once safe Labour seat.
One can only imagine the outcry which would have occurred had someone used a photo of Starmer shaking the hand of an Israeli politician to whip up hatred against Jews.
It now seems obvious that Starmer is prepared to tolerate racism and bigotry against black people, Muslims, and Hindus. But has zero tolerance against alleged anti-jewish racism.
What a monumental hypocrite.
And of course on the biggest issue of the day – Brexit – they could rely on the Lexiteer leader of the opposition to three line whip his MPs to slavishly support their anti-EU, right wing agenda at every juncture, thus rendering the term ‘opposition’ somewhat academic
Well done binners, the sheer quantity of bullshit you come out with makes it too much effort to counter.
Clever tactic..... drown any opposition with an overwhelming avalanche of bullshit.
Perhaps you can suggest that tactic to Keir Starmer? The 'keep silent and hope for the best' tactic doesn't appear to be working too well for him.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the beardy messiah called for article 50 to be triggered the day after the referendum then three-line-whipped his MPs to trigger article 50, leave the customs Union and leave the single market
Or did I miss something?
On the biggest issue of the day, you might as well have had Nigel Farage leading the Labour Party. In fact; Nige might have been a bit more reticent than Jezza
Brexit…. The greatest victory of divisive backward-looking, far right nationalism: Signed, sealed and gift-wrapped by the leader of the Labour Party
You couldn’t make it up
Yeah well you did make it you daft Muppet 🙂
Corbyn's Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union was Keir Starmer
And Keir Starmer was the principal person behind Labour's 2019 policy of a second referendum, which provided an open goal for the Tories.
Seriously mate, countering your nonsense is becoming tedious.
How's your colouring in going btw?
You couldn’t make it up
You're having a pretty good go.
Rather than arguing over the ashes of the demise of JC let's turn back to Starmer and what he needs to do potentially after losing B&S, what three things can be do straight away that will make a difference?
thus rendering the term ‘opposition’ somewhat academic
Good point. Thankfully whilst the government has been screwing up its response to the pandemic we now have the such a great opposition leader valiantly setting traps, in the minds of the faithful anyway, every question time with his forensic approach. Mere sixth formers and others not so highly trained might think he is completely ineffectual but I am sure come Thursday the three byelection wins for three will show them to be wrong and the crayon brigade to be correct.
Don’t be dissing the crayons.
Keeping them between the lines is harder than you think
Rather than arguing over the ashes of the demise of JC let’s turn back to Starmer and what he needs to do potentially after losing B&S, what three things can be do straight away that will make a difference?
Don't go asking difficult questions, it is far easier to argue the toss about Corbyn.
The first think Starmer can do is acknowledge that he was a bad choice for leader as he just doesn't have it
Second thing is to find someone who does have it and quickly put them into a safe Labour seat
Third thing is to make that person leader while also employing better media/marketing/strategy people and coming up with 2 or 3 simple and clear things they stand for.
What are those 2 or 3 things though?
I don't see why Starmer can't try the 2 or 3 things first.
Mine
1. Parliamentary reform inc. Federalism/ PR/ Scrap Lords.
2. Green energy/ transport infrastructure plan.
3. Massive investment in education.
This is an interesting article in the FT that sums up the problem now for labour, no matter who the leader is. How you square this circle of weaponised nationalism, I really don't know.
‘More divided and more angry’ — how Brexit reshaped British politics
Conservative victories in a swath of Brexit-voting Labour seats at the 2019 general election — and Johnson’s victory in May’s Hartlepool by-election — confirmed that some core Labour voters were attracted by a Tory message of Brexit, patriotism and cultural conservatism.
The first think Starmer can do is acknowledge that he was a bad choice for leader as he just doesn’t have it
Second thing is to find someone who does have it and quickly put them into a safe Labour seat
Third thing is to make that person leader while also employing better media/marketing/strategy people and coming up with 2 or 3 simple and clear things they stand for.
Here here.
No commentary on which side of the politic Labour should work from?
You can have all three of those things but if you don't tackle without massive spending plans and move away from tax and spend the party doesn't have much to say. (Can't see Labour taking this option. They will move more to the right after Starmer.)
Conservative victories in a swath of Brexit-voting Labour seats at the 2019 general election — and Johnson’s victory in May’s Hartlepool by-election — confirmed that some core Labour voters were attracted by a Tory message of Brexit, patriotism and cultural conservatism.
Yeah been saying this for years.
But it's how you address that patriotism. Oddly the Tories aren't that patriotic as we know they will look to the global market / nepotism to make use of the best purchasing power against human interest in their own country.
We all know this.
Maybe if Labour looked at the Pandemic and our role in it as a patriotic consensus to save lives - we could've have avoided the flags debacle and said something useful as party.
The likes of Julia Hartley Brewer are fine examples of anti-patriots. They're all GB flags and Brexit - but first on a plane out of the country and she's been a huge propenent of herd immunity - yet she commands that very Tory audience that see themselves as patriotic.
So you are making it up because you dislike Burnham?
What was the dog whistle?
Which is shorthand for ‘there aren’t any facts whatsoever to support the nonsense I’m spouting, but who needs facts when you have poetry? Peoples Poetry’
This is so, so easy:
Not even 'dog whistle'. Blatant xenophobia. Burnham is just another 'blame others' politician. Even a senior tory agrees with me:
I have posted exactly this info earlier in this thread. Which is why this must be so embarrassing for Binners; but then, we know Binners isn't a fan of actual facts. Which version of the Rose and Crown story is is this week Binners; is it the one where you gallantly fought all the racists and kicked them out of your local pub, telling them never to return? I can't keep up... 😀
I really don’t know.
Well if you really want to understand the issue binners, and move away from your absurd claims that Labour under Corbyn was more pro-brexit than Nigel Farage, then this article might help
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/05/labour-remainers-brexit-uk-eu-leavers
It's from the Guardian so I know how much you will value it.
How you square this circle of weaponised nationalism, I really don’t know.
By challenging it. Dont just sit there and allow the tories to define what being patriotic means. Ask why if they are so patriotic are they busy flogging the country off to the lowest bidder.
Ask why so many of these patriots dont want to live here.
For their simplistic view of history attack it via means which they would find harder to spin into a culture war. Point out how many people in England lost out to provide those lovely estates.
Not even ‘dog whistle’. Blatant xenophobia.
As I said to TJ when he took the same approach, by hysterically yelling 'RACIST!!' at everyone who even raises these issues, you are far more of the problem than they are.
What you are actually doing is preventing the actual issue from being discussed or addressed. In this case this will have led to actual deaths, due to nobody wanting to upset the conspicuois virtue-signallers
What he said isn't racist in the mind of any sane person. What he was pointing out is simply a truism. Everyone in Greater Manchester knows it, as they are familiar with the demographics of the places n question. You only have to look at the postcodes of the areas affected. So does that make us all racists then?
Actually.. don't bother answering that. We all know that nobody can live up to your lofty moral standards and everyone must be castigated for their moral impurities.
What this sort of competitive virtue signalling and shutting down debate also does is hand the Tories a stick to beat labour with. They can just point at 'the left' and indulge their 'political correctness gaaaawn maaaaad' narrative that has been playing for them so well in 'red wall' seats
Not even ‘dog whistle’. Blatant xenophobia. Burnham is just another ‘blame others’ politician. Even a senior tory agrees with me:
I've no idea about the parts about people from asian backgrounds not taking Covid seriously, but the part about people of asian heritage tending to live more densely in multi-generational households is just factually true, and seems obviously likely to be a factor in spreading Covid. The urban areas with the highest Covid spikes have tended to coincide with high levels of asian heritage populations. These areas often also have high levels of deprivation, poor health and comparatively low levels of education, and poor English skills amongst the older people.
It would be racist to say that this is something intrinsic to the fact that they are asian, but trying to pretend these factors don't exist isn't anti-racist, it's just anti-evidence.
Dismissive ad hominems are just so tedious. There's no problem expressing concerns about multiple occupancy households and covid so long as it's put in the context of poverty, discrimination etc.
but the part about people of asian heritage tending to live more densely in multi-generational households is just factually true, and seems obviously likely to be a factor in spreading Covid.
Just Asian people? Not other groups? Only Asians, then?
What about the dog-whistling over 'immigration' then? How do you explain that?
Trouble is, people are too quick to overlook the faults in a person they admire/like/support. Just look at the love for Blair on here. But Burnham is just another populist who will jump on whatever convenient bandwagon suits his career ambitions. He buggered off to a safe job away from Westminster politics, once he realised he was out of his depth there. He's most definitely not a man for a fight. Gobbing off about the Covid lockdown 'unfairness' was easy; he had nothing to lose (and was only part of a wider group saying the same anyway). He'll be off soon enough, when something better paid comes along.
Just Asian people? Not other groups? Only Asians, then?
What?
What about the dog-whistling over ‘immigration’ then? How do you explain that?
What, the stuff that Craig Whittaker said?
As I said to TJ when he took the same approach, by hysterically yelling ‘RACIST!!‘ at everyone who even raises these issues, you are far more of the problem than they are.
Is easily answered by this:
There’s no problem expressing concerns about multiple occupancy households and covid so long as it’s put in the context of poverty, discrimination etc.
But Burnham didn't do that. He knew exactly what he was doing; appealing to the fearful, by invoking xenophobia. As BillMC rightfully points out; high density occupation is down to issues such as poverty and deprivation, more than any 'cultural' considerations. But Burnham didn't mention that. He could easily have spoken about high density occupation in the context of poverty and deprivation, but he didn't. He only mentioned race and culture. Xenophobia.
you are far more of the problem than they are
So; being critical of racism is worse than actual racism? Right. Ok.
He’s most definitely not a man for a fight.
I can think of 96 families who would strongly disagree with you there
We get it. You don't like him
So; being critical of racism is worse than actual racism? Right. Ok
Not when what you're calling racist isn't remotely racist at all.
You are aware that people displaying attitudes such as yours with your constant vocal virtue-signalling, permanent moral outrage and Taliban-esque demands for moral purity are an absolute gift to the Tories?
All you and people like you on 'the left' do is alienate and irritate all but the most pious and sanctimonious and drive even liberal, reasonable people away in droves with your moral extremism
What he said isn’t racist in the mind of any sane person
A common tactic of yours, is to ascribe negative characteristics to people you disagree with. Here, it's implying that anyone concerned about racism is 'insane'. You refer to Corbyn as 'Grandad'; ageist. Ascribing mental illness to 'loony lefties' is another favourite of yours. It appears you're incapable of actually engaging and debating effectively, and need to resort to putting others down. Why?
Not even ‘dog whistle’. Blatant xenophobia. Burnham is just another ‘blame others’ politician.
Depends if his comments are based on facts.
My theoretical office base is in Leicester, which was never out of lockdown last year. Was consistently being mentioned that mixing of multi generational Asian households was a key driver to the consistently high infection rate, and they put a huge targeted effort in on communication and testing in those communities.
No one accused the authorities in Leicester of dog whistle racism.
Though it was interesting hearing colleagues from different backgrounds blaming the mixing on the "others", so mosques v temples etc.
You are aware that people displaying attitudes such as yours with your constant vocal virtue-signalling, permanent moral outrage and Taliban-esque demands for moral purity are an absolute gift to the Tories.
And here we go...
'in the 3 years to March 2019, an average of around 787,000 (3%) of the estimated 23 million households in England were overcrowded (that is, they had fewer bedrooms than they needed to avoid undesirable sharing)
around 2% of White British households were overcrowded
the households with the highest rates of overcrowding were in the Bangladeshi (24%), ****stani (18%), Black African (16%), Arab (15%) and Mixed White and Black African (14%) ethnic groups
White British households were less likely to be overcrowded than households from all other ethnic groups combined – this was across all socio-economic groups and age groups, most regions and income bands, and regardless of whether they owned or rented their home'
Yup, we are in a weird position where even admitting the undeniable factual evidence that non-white households are significantly more likely to be overcrowded (which is the first thing you'd need to do to be able to tackle the issue), makes you a racist.
And here we go…
?
My theoretical office base is in Leicester, which was never out of lockdown last year. Was consistently being mentioned that mixing of multi generational Asian households was a key driver to the consistently high infection rate, and they put a huge targeted effort in on communication and testing in those communities.
No one accused the authorities in Leicester of dog whistle racism.
Burnham referred to Asian people in particular, when he could just as easily have said 'I mean those people who have to live in high density occupation housing', and completely avoided mentioning 'Asians'. So why didn't he?
Yup, we are in a weird position where even admitting the undeniable factual evidence that non-white households are significantly more likely to be overcrowded
All 'non-white' households?
?
Quite. Unsurprising that went right over your head.
Do you need a bigger shovel?
All ‘non-white’ households?
Maybe stick to responding to stuff that people have actually said? Just a thought.
So why didn’t he?
It was the interviewer who mentioned asians, and he actually avoided a weasely answer. I would stake the house that the vast majority of people living in high density housing in Manchester will be asian.
I would probably agree he should have highlighted that there were other factors at play but maybe he didn't get the chance, I don't know.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/stamford-hill-highest-covid-infections-world-b920632.html
Can we blame 'the Jews'?
"Spitz pointed to factors that have blighted other ethnic groups incuding multi-generational households, poverty and a higher incidence of pre-existing health conditions"
Context.
Maybe stick to responding to stuff that people have actually said? Just a thought.
I have. Burnham specifically referred to 'Asians' when he was questioned about the spread of Covid in Manchester.
Quite. Unsurprising that went right over your head.
Oh I get it. You're calling me a racist because I made reference to an organisation renowned for its insistence on moral purity to illustrate a point about the insistence on moral purity
Definitely racist, rather than just an obvious reference to moral purity
Oh cool, whataboutery. Well we have around 2.5 million or more people with asian heritage in the UK, how many Orthodox Jews are there? So yes it's an issue but on a much lesser scale. Also none of the issues regarding connections to the Indian sub-continent and the Delta variant.
Oh I get it. You’re calling me a racist because I made reference to an organisation renowned for its insistence on moral purity to illustrate a point about the insistence on moral purity
Where did I call you a racist? You're just imagining stuff now. As well as not understanding things. My question to you was about why you are very keen to ascribe negative characteristics to people you disagree with. As you then went and so brilliantly demonstrated with that comment. A question you, as yet, have failed to answer. Care to give it a go?
Not really.
Would you like a picture of some kittens instead?
Oh cool, whataboutery. Well we have around 2.5 million or more people with asian heritage in the UK, how many Orthodox Jews are there? So yes it’s an issue but on a much lesser scale.
https://www.ft.com/content/c5d29294-fdaf-465e-adc9-d4d27b9cbfa9
"An Orthodox Jewish community in London has one of the world’s highest rates of Covid-19 past infection, according to a study that points to crowded housing and socio-economic deprivation as possible reasons for the increased prevalence.
The rate of past infection, known as seroprevalence, in one Orthodox Jewish community of roughly 15,000 people was found to be 64 per cent, according to researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
By contrast, seroprevalence is believed to be 7 per cent across the UK and 11 per cent in London, the Office for National Statistics has estimated."
Can you find me an example of a London politician, when asked about the spread of Covid, referring specifically to the Jewish population? In the same way Burnham referred to 'Asians'? Or, is it that those concerned with dealing with the crisis were much more interested in the socio-economic factors, rather than stuff like ethnicity or culture?
When the BBC interviewer asked if he was referring predominantly to the Asian population of Greater Manchester, Burnham said: "Yes, I do mean that."
My bold.
The fact he didn't mention Prestwich is probably part of a conspiracy
*taps nose knowingly*
How you square this circle of weaponised nationalism, I really don’t know.
Oh FFS stop with the pathetic defeatism. It's really very simple, you offer them an alternative based on their needs and interests that shows normal people that you are on their side, and that you will fight for them. That's what happened in 2017 and labour massively increased it's vote share. The minute working people think labour don't represent their interests, they will stop voting for them. As that article Ernie shared (thanks BTW, I missed that) says, the only group labour represents right now are pissed off middle class remainers who still haven't accepted they lost in 2016. That's fine, but it's not going to win them an election, and instead they will end up like the liberal democrats, a fringe party of elitist liberals who like to talk about the working class whilst failing to to talk to them.
"We are struggling," Mr Burnham told the cameras and the impromptu crowd that had gathered. "This pandemic has hit the North harder than it has other places because of the entrenched poverty in the north of England, because Westminster has neglected the north of England for too many years."
People are asking: why is it that the poorest places in the north are the most affected by this virus? Some on the right are seeking to put the blame on the people themselves and on different communities. We must not let them do this.
