Oh FFS stop with the pathetic defeatism. It’s really very simple....
Binners isn't interested in practical solutions, they get in the way of his unrestrained ranting.
And it's obvious how much he enjoys that as he makes stuff up just so he can rant about it.
To be fair I enjoy his rants too, specially when they enter the realm of nonsensical gibberish, there's something uniquely special about them.
I quite liked this one a couple of hours ago :
You are aware that people displaying attitudes such as yours with your constant vocal virtue-signalling, permanent moral outrage and Taliban-esque demands for moral purity are an absolute gift to the Tories?
Says the man who stormed out of his local pub in a fit of moral outrage.
Have you been back to say sorry yet binners?
Oh good. Are we back to my local boozer again.
Can I ask yet again... why the constant obsession with it?
You must know that it's really, really odd, right? The amount of time all you lefties spend mulling over the events at a local pub in east Lancashire
Would you like me to see if I can set up a webcam with a live feed, so you can all sit and watch the comings and goings? You can update yourself with the latest developments in the ongoing bowling green saga.
In other local pub news, it's really hotting up in Rammy... the landlord of the Eagle and Child, just up the road has been dabbling in anti-vax conspiracy theories. Theres been uproar on the 'Whats on in Ramsbottom' Facebook page with some people saying they're going to take their custom to the Hearth of the Ram despite the beer garden not being as nice.
I'll tell you what... should we spare everyone else having to put up with your frankly weird compulsion and just start a separate Rammy Pubs thread? Would that make you happy? I can keep you all abreast of developments as they happen. If I get time I could produce a series of illustrations that you could print out and make yourself a little scrap book to show your friends, like the worlds most tragic Panini stickers album?
Can I ask yet again… why the constant obsession with it?
I thought the link was obvious. You accusing people of virtue signalling and moral outrage and your legendary tale of storming out of your local pub in a fit of moral outrage.
Not sure about the Taliban connection though.
How about you explain your constant obsession with "lefties" and Jeremy Corbyn binners?
Or your interminable obsession with a film made in 1979?
EDIT : I take it you haven't been back to say sorry?
I don't think its really virtue-signalling to object to people referring to people of colour as N**s and Asian people as P's, is it?
Because what that is is genuine, nasty and unpleasant, straight-out racism and its deeply offensive. Surely thats something we can all agree on, no? I genuinely don't get what your issue is here?
Whereas saying that Andy Burnham is racist because he had the temerity to comment on the simple fact that multi-generational households are predominantly in certain areas is just complete nonsense
And its just that sort of nonsense that generally has people rolling their eyes at the professionally outraged people who tend to offer up such ridiculous opinions.
And ultimately, banging on about the latter devalues the former, which is the real problem
EDIT : I take it you haven’t been back to say sorry?
Why on earth would I apologise to a bunch of racist *s for pointing out that they're a bunch of racist *s? What exactly would I be apologising for? My colourful use of language? My Guardian reading? British colonial rule in Africa in the 19th century?
Now please, for the benefit of everyone, not least yourself, can we get off the subject of my local pub, once and for all?
at the professionally outraged people
Your lack of self-awareness is frankly stunning binners. I don't think there is a single person on here who fits the description "professionally outraged" better than you.
Indeed it is your outbursts of uncontrolled outrage which returned me from causal observer to active poster again. 😀
What exactly would I be apologising for? My colourful use of language? My Guardian reading? British colonial rule in Africa in the 19th century?
That would be a start.
Although to be fair I didn't know about your connection with British colonial rule in Africa in the 19th century.
Indeed it is your outbursts of uncontrolled outrage which returned me from causal observer to active poster again.
Then my work here is done, comrade 😉
The minute working people think labour don’t represent their interests, they will stop voting for them.
And vote for a Tory party that represents their interests even less?
What if working people like what the tories are doing, why do you think what you would offer them be better in their opinion?
The consistently high polling support for both Brexit (still!) and this present Tory administration (still!) would suggest that turkeys really do not only vote for Christmas but are positively ecstatic at the prospect of it
I don’t think its really virtue-signalling to object to people referring to people of colour as N**s and Asian people as P’s, is it?
Some people would consider that to be virtue-signalling, which is the point really.
Perhaps you could have a think about that the next time you accuse others of the same.
And vote for a Tory party that represents their interests even less?
See my earlier comment. A lot of people who have stopped voting labour have moved to other parties or are just not voting. Those who voted tory did so purely on the single issue of brexit. Labour are now seen as the party which represents the niche interests of woke metropolitan remainers, whereas the tories at least sound as if they are interested in non-metropolitan working class people, even if we all know they aren't.
Some people would consider that to be virtue-signalling, which is the point really.
To be honest, the kind of person who thinks objecting to that kind of language is virtue signalling can, quite frankly, **** right off anyway 🙂
To be honest, the kind of person who thinks objecting to that kind of language is virtue signalling can, quite frankly, **** right off anyway 🙂
I agree, but such observations are relative to the observer. Which, again, is the point.
Those who voted tory did so purely on the single issue of brexit.
Thats way too simplistic. Brexit was just the beginning. It most certainly isn't the end. We've got an awful long way to travel yet on the Brexit bus
The Tory's are continuing and intensifying their culture war because they know they're on to a winner with what you might diplomatically refer to as 'socially conservative' voters.
It's the Daily Mail ethos. Paul Dacre always said that his mission (such as it is) was to have the reader hating somebody by the end of an editorial. And we all know the subjects towards which that hate was usually directed, don't we?
The Tory's have simply turned Paul Dacre's editorial policy into actual government policy, and it would appear that a large percentage of people are absolutely lapping it up, on account of them being ****s
It might stop before we reach outright fascism. It might not. Who knows? There does seem to be a very real appetite for something closely resembling fascism in this country at the moment though.
Thats not me being defeatest. Thats me being a realist
What are your actual practical suggestions for labour countering something that it seems a large percentage of people are very receptive too? because it looks to me like a lot of (angry, parochial, white) people are done with any form of liberalism, and are quite happy to vote for a government that is too, and will put 'progress' into reverse.
Which kind of leaves you a bit screwed as an essentially liberal party, when it's liberalism itself which is being scapegoated as the cause of all this countries problems
Brexit was just the beginning.
You do realise that a Tory government agreed to hold a referendum on brexit in an attempt to bury the issue once and for all, don't you?
They were convinced of a remain victory otherwise they would never have staged the referendum.
Paul Dacre always said that his mission (such as it is) was to have the reader hating somebody by the end of an editorial.
When you say always do you have one example of him saying that?
Not that I would doubt the accuracy of what you post binners.
And can you provide examples of the government's mission to ferment hate crime? Preferably without virtue signalling or going into a fit of moral outrage.
You do realise that a Tory government agreed to hold a referendum on brexit in an attempt to bury the issue once and for all, don’t you?
Went well, didn't it?
The Tory Party of David Cameron did that though. That party doesn't exist any more. It died in 2016. Its been replaced by UKIP
When you say always do you have one example of him saying that?
Sorry Ernie. I stand corrected. Though its a quote thats often attributed to him, it wasn't Dacre, It was the Mails owner Lord Northcliffe who said it. Paul Dacre certainly embraced it though. Like Matt Hancock embracing an arse in a stationary cupboard
Apologies for the Polly Toynbee quote. Here you go...
"Asked for the winning formula of his Daily Mail, Lord Northcliffe replied: 'I give my readers a daily hate.' No one has kept that flame burning more brightly than Paul Dacre, poisoner of the national psyche, bully-in-chief, whose iron whim has terrified prime ministers for a quarter of a century… Like all bullies he targets underdogs, imposing on the country racism, homophobia and philistinism, and shunning complexity and evidence."
And can you provide examples of the government’s mission to ferment hate crime?
Provide Examples? Have you been living in a cave for the last five years?
There does seem to be a very real appetite for something closely resembling fascism in this country at the moment though.
You've got this entirely the wrong way round. There's a very real appetite within the country for challenging the elitist neo-liberal consensus that has seen wages fall, secure jobs disappear, and pensions wiped out while billionaires treat the world as their own personal playground and pay no tax in the process. If the left don't offer an opportunity to challenge this transparently corrupt system, then people will turn to populists on the right who pretend to. There's no more appetite for fascism than there is for communism, all people want is politicians who listen to them and act in their interests, and bizarrrely Boris falls into that category while Keir Starmer doesn't.
Have you ever met any actual people, mate?
Lots of them are absolutely horrible bundles of barely contained hate.
They're vile.
They definitely want fascism. The sooner, the better.
And when they get it, they're going to be stringing all the vegan, cycling anarchists up 😉
See my earlier comment. A lot of people who have stopped voting labour have moved to other parties or are just not voting. Those who voted tory did so purely on the single issue of brexit.
See my earlier comment. Look at 2019 voter turnout and it is same as 2017.
And didn't you say yesterday that the drop in Labour votes was because of antisemitism and infighting but now it is purely on the single issue of Brexit.
all people want is politicians who listen to them and act in their interests, and bizarrrely Boris falls into that category
So Boris is what they want, why should they want what you are offering just because you like it?
So when you say "Paul Dacre always said" what you meant to say was that you once read Polly whatshername, quote someone else, say something, but without providing the full context.
"I give my readers a daily hate" could be a fair description of your posts on here binners. Or maybe even Guardian editorials.
It depends what is meant by hate. Did he mean hatred against black people or gay people? Or against Labour taxation policies, for example?
Of course by reducing what he said to seven words Polly thingy can use it to mean whatever she wants it to mean.
Anyway what is the connection with the present government policy, I haven't been living in a cave the last 5 years, where are the examples of the daily hate they churn out? Anti-gay? Anti-muslim? Should be easy to find.
It is certainly easy to find among the governments of some EU member states.
Went well, didn’t it?
So you admit that the referendum wasn't a ploy by the government to launch some weird war as you claimed. Jolly good.
So you admit that the referendum wasn’t a ploy by the government to launch some weird war as you claimed. Jolly good.
I never claimed that anyway. The referendum was called by Dave to try and head off Farage and UKIP in case they split the blue-rinse racist vote and let a labour government in.
I'm aware that he never even countenanced for a second the idea that he might possibly lose it. Do you not know who he is? He's frightfully important and he always gets what he wants. How could he lose?
The culture war was a happy accident for the arch-opportunist that is Boris Johnson. Once he saw the well of resentment and hatred of 'the other' that he'd successfully tapped into, he just couldn't help himself and he's been whipping it up as and when it suits him ever since. It got him in number 10 after all. And that is literally the only thing that matters.
Apparently people like statues of the right sort of people, but not the wrong sort of actual living, breathing people who they're happy to see drown in the channel
As for examples of this government, the Brexiteers and the Right Wing press fermenting hate, start with the murder of Jo Cox and work forward from there....
Look at his lovely, cuddly welcoming face, bless him...
He'd definitely be up for a bit of fascism
fermenting hatred? brewdog?
Which kind of leaves you a bit screwed as an essentially liberal party, when it’s liberalism itself which is being scapegoated as the cause of all this countries problems
No, because Liberalism is not one thing. Or one ideology.
I think you'll find 'liberalism' is using hardworking, patriotic taxpayers money to give free houses and massive tellies to bloody refugees who rock up her from bloody bongo-bongo-land to have free operations on the NHS and live the life of bloody Riley off the bloody state while simultaneously stealing all our bloody jobs
Gaz was telling me all about it last night, down the pub. Putting them all up in five star bloody hotels they are! While they build 'em all new houses. And who's paying for it all? Muggins here, that's who!
Gaz was telling me all about it last night, down the pub.
I thought you didn't frequent that pub any more. There's more than one racist pub in Rammy?
Well I'm certainly stunned that binners appears to be back drinking in the Rose and Crown.
So what did you tell Gaz?
Btw what makes all these racists and bigots think that you are a good listener binners?
I have sympathetic eyes
Your eyes appear sympathetic to racists and bigots? Ah that explains that explains their apparent irresistible urge to share their many thoughts with you.
I bet you are a big ol' 'hug-a-ukipper' softy when you had a couple of pints binners. The tough talking stuff is reserved for "lefties" on stw.
Thats not me being defeatest. Thats me being a realist
In the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Binners on this.
It really doesn't matter who the Labour leader is because they face the same issue.
How do you push against a media that's dominated by a right-wing agenda?
And one that's increasingly targeted and nuanced.
The option for a Labour leader is to do a Blair - court the media and stick to Tory-lite policies.
Or do a Corbyn - focus on safe stuff like trains - keep your head down and see how long you can absorb the punches.
Both strategies produce the same result - nothing much changes.
Burnham, Starmer, Lewis. It doesn't matter who it is, the problem is the same.
It's not just about the media either, sadly it's much easier to play on peoples' worst instincts like fear, jealousy etc because these are hard-wired survival traits that were handy 10,000 years ago or whatever.
With social media and all the the data available now, as well as the lack of oversight or scruples the level of manipulation possible is unprecedented.
The option for a Labour leader is to do a Blair – court the media and stick to Tory-lite policies.
That isn't an option. This is 2021 not 1997, political reality and truths have changed dramatically in 24 years.
The Blair formula will no longer work, however simple and appealing it might appear.
it’s much easier to play on peoples’ worst instincts like fear, jealousy etc because these are hard-wired survival traits that were handy 10,000 years ago or whatever.
With social media and all the the data available now, as well as the lack of oversight or scruples the level of manipulation possible is unprecedented.
I think that pretty much sums up why the tories are still polling well, desite all the lies and corruption. They Know it, and they don't care, they are just playing the numbers.
How do you push against a media that’s dominated by a right-wing agenda?
You come up with something progressive and defend the hell out of it.
Ffs Ernie do you just come here to be a ****? Even when you seem to be in agreement you have to be right, get a bloody grip.
Where are the photos of Kier Starmer draped in a flag, wearing an England shirt cheering the there lions on?. Either jumping on the sofa in excitement whilst watching it on telly or covered in beer at an official fan zone?
Starmer's a genuine fan (he attended two of the Wembley matches in 1996). His advisors advise him to show more patriotism, Boris backs anyone but England and Sir Kier misses an open goal.
Meanwhile, at the Daily Mail the win is put down to the presence of a bored out of his mind lkttle Prince George, 'our lucky mascot' they cheer. Nothing to do with Raheem Sterling of course.
Ffs Ernie do you just come here to be a ****? Even when you seem to be in agreement you have to be right, get a bloody grip.
In agreement with what? I thought I was making the point that I'm not in agreement, ie I don't think the Blair 1997 election strategy would work today.
Why is me disagreeing a problem for you squirrel, you want this to be an echo chamber where everyone agrees with everyone else? It would make a very boring and pointless thread. Although to be fair I do enjoy reading the brexit thread.
And yes of course I think I'm right, why would I post stuff I thought was wrong?
Maybe don't get so offended with someone for having a different point of view?
It's your attitude and the fact you evidently think you're so smart that annoys me, I couldn't give a toss what your opinions are.
https://twitter.com/PositiveMoneyUK/status/1409898813599408131?s=19
For example. Talking like this and acting like this is economically illiterate, and certainly doesn't give us much to get excited about.
It's not her fault. It is endemic in the Labour party because they are terrified of being labelled spenders.
They've got to get out of this mindset and start learning how the economy works.
Imagine what we could do as a society if we got on board here.
They’ve got to get out of this mindset and start learning how the economy works.
Trouble is the electorate don’t.
Keir Starmer the Invisible ……
Not much else to say about him,
Bring back Jezza …. At least he got headlines ( for whatever reason ) and you knew he was around
the fact you evidently think you’re so smart that annoys me
Maybe it's you that needs to get a grip squirrel.
IIRC a few days ago you, ironically, laughed at me for suggesting that Thatcher was much more right-wing than Boris Johnson.
You don't have to be smart to know that on both the economy and social issues Johnson is significantly to the left of Thatcher, you just need to know it.
I do appreciate that it might piss some people off when that is pointed out, as for them Johnson is the current hate figure which means that he is worse than any UK political which has ever existed. And I'm just an annoying **** for suggesting anything different.
The people who think they are so smart are those who arrogantly dismiss the British public as thick and stupid. I have lost count how many times I seen on here people commenting how half the population is below average intelligence.
Whatever the UK political issue the general consensus on here is always that people are thick and stupid. Apparently that explains everything.
And the lower down the social class the more thick and stupid they are, so that the greatest contempt is reserved for working-class people like myself.
I don't need lessons on arrogance from stw.
I don’t need lessons on arrogance from stw.
Oh but you'll get it whether you like it or not.
The Champagne socialists on here could teach the right wing a thing or two about intolerance.
Especially for the majority masses that they see as too stupid to be allowed to think.
Apparently people like statues of the right sort of people, but not the wrong sort of actual living, breathing people who they’re happy to see drown in the channel
Eh voilà
And the lower down the social class the more thick and stupid they are
Given that we live in the opposite of a meritocracy I find the opposite of that is usually the case.
Just look at the present cabinet. The most privileged backgrounds imaginable and the most expensive education money can buy and just look at them
Thick as mince
I don’t really see how the English private education system could possibly survive purely in the strength of the learning provided, as opposed to who slammed your Dick in drawer, beat you in a game of soggy biscuit then asked you 8 years later if you fancied a job in a think tank.
