Btw binners ref : “And you ca’t really blame them for that” it is very generous of you not to blame the electorate.
I've never blamed the electorate. Quite the reverse. It's the Corbynite left who've consistently done that with their 'we won the argument' nonsense. Its always baffled me that they can be openly hostile to the majority of voters for not sharing their joyless, po-faced but oh-so-worthy idealogical purity, then be surprised when they don't vote for you.
Competitive and overly-conspicuous virtue-signalling may go down a storm in the common room, but most people just roll their eyes when they see it.
I assume from that comment you have re-evaluated the situation and are no longer predicting stunning election success for Starmer.
I predicted a couple of weeks ago labour will lose the Hartlepool by-election. I've stuck a tenner on it at 1.9/1 (odds are a lot shorter now)
The question is whether Boris can resist the temptation to call a snap election on the back of it? If he does, labour is ****ed!
Covid and the vaccination programme is the only game in town right now. Ironic that it'll be the dedication of NHS staff that could potentially deliver another 5 years of tory rule
Its always baffled me that they think that by being openly hostile to the majority of voters for not sharing their joyless, po-faced but oh-so-worthy idealogical purity, you’re then surprised when they don’t vote for you.
You mean like the comment you have just made binners with regards to the electorate only being interested in shopping in Primark and going down the pub?
And we know what you think about the common man down your local pub binners, according to you you called everyone in the pub "bigots" before storming off never to return. How many votes do you think that little performance won?
He didn't say they were "only interested" in those things, just that it's giving the public a lift. I know my hour in the sun in a beer garden post ride properly cheered me up on Sunday.
I know my hour in the sun in a beer garden post ride properly cheered me up on Sunday.
Did it turn you into a Tory voter as binners suggests?
Btw was that before or after you popped down to Primark?
How many votes do you think that little performance won?
You know that I'm not actually standing for election, right? I'm just a nobhead on the internet.
Do you want to come up and try a pint in my local, mate? You seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking about it and its regulars. Today would probably be the perfect day for it. I bet they've got the flags out.
Competitive and overly-conspicuous virtue-signalling may go down a storm in the common room, but most people just roll their eyes when they see it.
Really? Starmer and co seem to think its working well for the tories and so are copying it. I wouldnt be surprised if they get so competitive they start wearing poppies from next week.
That really is the worst strawman I’ve seen in a long time.
Clearly, you don't actually understand what a 'straw man' argument actually is. Binners was displaying the common trait of conflating Islam and Muslims with terrorism. It's forgivable, because many people were taken in by the carefully orchestrated plan to create the new 'Goldstein' in order to be able to justify Imperialist belligerence. And this lack of depth of understanding of issues is demonstrated further in this thread, in the responses of those who think that Starmer being ordered, sorry, 'advised' not to attend an event by a particular group, is simple and easily explained. It's well worth noting that the Board of Deputies is an organisation that has essentially become a lobbying group for Israeli corporate and political interests, and is not without its own flaws:
Starmer, in obeying the orders of- sorry; taking the 'advice' of this group, has shown that he is little more than a corporate Yes man; a puppet in a stuffed suit. As for Cage; it's an advocacy group for people affected by xenophobic government policy. Again, like the BoD, it's not without its own flaws, but comments like this:
Anyone with any ties to The Cage isn’t exactly the sort of folk any normal politician should be seen within 200 yards of
Merely serve to highlight how rampant Islamophobia has become, in our society. And how easily influenced people are. It really does pay to do your own homework, and read between the lines a bit more, rather than crying about a hungry dog.
Binners was displaying the common trait of conflating Islam and Muslims with terrorism
Don't be ridiculous. I wasn't doing anything of the sort. I was merely pointing out how utterly ludicrous it is to say that Tony Blair and the invasion of Iraq was entirely responsible for the demonisation of Muslims in UK society, but the small matter of 9/11 wasn't a contributory factor in that.
Of course it was. To say that that had no influence is laughable. What I'm saying is that an 'us and them' narrative wasn't purely to do with western sabre-rattling, there was another opposing group here who were equally as eager to stoke things up to suit their own agenda. And they didn't half choose a way to do it.
Yes, the reaction of the west was stupid and completely counter-productive, giving the extremists exactly what their 'clash of cultures' narrative demanded, but lets not pretend that this was one-sided. And I don't see how pointing that out is conflating all muslims as terrorists. It isn't. Any more than condemning IRA terrorism is labelling all catholics as such
As for Cage; it’s an advocacy group for people affected by xenophobic government policy. Again, like the BoD, it’s not without its own flaws
Oh sure, but unlike, say the BoD who's members haven't been on R.T. supporting the implementation of Shirai law in a Caliphate or to refusing to condemn stoning to death for adultery, or calling Jihadi John "A beautiful young man" or had Gita Sahgal call their leader, "Britain's foremost apologist for the Taliban". There comes a point at which you have to regard a group's action as not appropriate for a main stream political involvement, and especially not the Leader of her Majesties Opposition.
You know that I’m not actually standing for election, right? I’m just a nobhead on the internet.
No, I had no idea. Why for heaven's sake aren't you? If there's one man on here who knows how to win elections it's clearly you.
I know because you tell us on a daily basis. And anyone who doesn't agree with you on how to win an election is an "utterly clueless idiot". Apparently.
Btw you do realise that it's not only the people who are actually standing for election who try to win votes for a candidate, don't you?
As a member of the Labour Party you must have surely knocked on people's doors and announced "I am canvassing on behalf of so-and-so the Labour Party candidate"??
Or do you just do your election work on STW binners?
I still can't envisage a world where anyone could care less what I think, comrade.
Nor would I want to.
*shudders*
I'm only typing this reply to you now because I'm meant to be designing some adverts for vegan dietary supplements (yes, really) and I'm not really feeling it. 🙂
Oh sure, but unlike, say the BoD who’s members haven’t been on R.T. supporting the implementation of Shirai law in a Caliphate or to refusing to condemn stoning to death for adultery, or calling Jihadi John “A beautiful young man” or had Gita Sahgal call their leader, “Britain’s foremost apologist for the Taliban”. There comes a point at which you have to regard a group’s action as not appropriate for a main stream political involvement, and especially not the Leader of her Majesties Opposition.
So you chose to ignore this bit?
In 2018, the BoD were forced to suspend the deputy for Finchley United Synagogue, Roslyn Pine, for six years for referring to Muslims as “the vilest of animals” and Arabs as “so evil” and saying how she “detests the creed of Islam” and believes that killing Jews and “destroying Israel” is a fundamental pillar of Islam. Even more shocking was that Pine claimed that every deputy at BoD held similar views “otherwise what is their purpose there?”. Oddly enough, while the BoD took the view that Pine had brought the Board into disrepute there doesn’t appear to have been a statement from the BoD distancing themselves from her remarks. This suggests they were only concerned about the public’s perception of the BoD and it exposes a weakness in their ability, or even desire, to challenge Islamophobia from certain right wing Jewish groups that they represent.
Seems you did. As I said; crying about hungry dogs is pointless if you haven't actually done your homework...
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-israel-ambassador-jewish-group-nakba-slammed
Oh my. That bridges post is a ... 'just nod and back away towards the exit' one, isn't it. No way to engage with that really.
EDIT: oh, another one. I should really know by know to avoid any thread once it drops down into this stuff. See ya...
Don’t be ridiculous. I wasn’t doing anything of the sort.
Except you were.
but the small matter of 9/11 wasn’t a contributory factor in that.
Q.E.D. So; the actions of a few individuals justifies the demonisation of an entire religion and all its followers? Ok.
I’m only typing this reply to you now because I’m meant to be designing some adverts for vegan dietary supplements (yes, really) and I’m not really feeling it. 🙂
A proud Guardian reader lacks the inspiration to convince others of the virtues of vegan dietary supplements?? Whatever next!
Q.E.D. So; the actions of a few individuals justifies the demonisation of an entire religion and all its followers? Ok.
Only if you have a ludicrously simplistic worldview. Which plenty on the left do. In no way am I seeking to justify it. I don't really see how you could interpret what I said as in any way 'justifying' it.
9/11 was a terrorist act designed by a small group of extremists to sow discord and spark conflict. It was incredibly successful in doing so. Thats just a truism. So to say that increased tensions with the muslim community in the UK was purely the fault of Tony Blair is ludicrous. Should it have done so? In an ideal world, no. But we don't live in an ideal world. People don't necessarily react rationally when they feel threatened.
he actions of a few individuals justifies the demonisation of an entire religion and all its followers?
See, this is a strawman. Again. Binners has "justified" nothing of the sort. Stop it.
I don’t really see how you could interpret what I said as in any way ‘justifying’ it.
Yet you suggested that those who committed the 9-11 attacks were responsible for the demonisation of an entire religion and its followers? Why would you do that, unless you were actually conflating the actions of a few with an entire religion? To deflect blame away from your Chosen One? Backpedal all you want; you were suckered in. And now you're too afraid to admit it.
So to say that increased tensions with the muslim community in the UK was purely the fault of Tony Blair is ludicrous
Now that, right there, is a 'straw man'. Take note, Kelvin. 😉
I think I'm going to back away from this now because of the whole thing about wrestling with pigs....
Wise... pub at 5pm? Or just a few in the garden?
A few in the garden tonight, mate. Everything I planted last year is flowering so it's all very pleasant.
We've been out to eat for the last two nights. Very bourgeois of me. It's been lovely. I'll definitely be voting Tory off the back of it. Thanks Boris 😉
How about you?
Gin on the terrace for me...
If I can get this colouring in done by five, a few in the garden. I expect the only pub to re-open in the village will already be fully booked. [ RIP pubs = :7( ] Oh, I wouldn't vote for Johnson if he paid for all my beer for life.
I’ll definitely be voting Tory off the back of it. Thanks Boris
And me, I've heard he is doing a great job.
Is Islamophobia going to be Starmer's Achilles heel?
Poor Keir. With an estimated 3 million or so British Muslims, and 85% of them voting for Labour, if he loses their votes, he's really in trouble. Not attending a Muslim event at the orders, sorry, 'advice' of a right wing pressure group, can't be doing him any favours. Still; at least he'll be able to eat a bacon sandwich in peace...
Gin on the terrace for me…
Got a meeting at 3pm, then I'm off to the pub to drink the most expensive hipster IPAs they've got in. 🙂
Where you headed Daz? The Golden Lion? It’ll be nice sat outside there this afternoon
Oh god... pubs... hope someone buys and gets our ones going again. You can't fit the whole of Mytholmroyd into the tiny triangle at the side of Burnley Road.
The pubs round here seem to have come over all Putin and annexed all surrounding roads, car parks and land for outdoor seating areas 😃
Our only drinking hole is sandwiched between the main road and the river... they have taken all the space that they can. The two proper pubs have HUGE beer gardens, and car parks they could convert... but haven't survived the lockdown and are closed. Sad days. Garden beers are going to taste so, so good today though... look at that sky out there! Right... back to colouring in...
The pubs round here seem to have come over all Putin and annexed all surrounding roads, car parks and land for outdoor seating areas
Landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed.
Last night: https://www.labourmuslims.org/event-details/labour-ramadan-iftaar-2021
I'm sure Starmer and his team can cope with engaging with British Muslim communities, without having to ignore British Jewish communities for fear of being called "a corporate Yes man; a puppet in a stuffed suit" for doing so.
Where you headed Daz? The Golden Lion?
Gonna try but suspect they'll have no space. The slots on the website get booked out very quickly. Although I went last weekend and they 'made' me a special spot as I'm a valued customer 🙂
I’m sure Starmer and his team can cope with engaging with British Muslim communities
Kelvin we've moved on to beer now. No more talk about politics today please 😂
Friday's are just about impossible. Get down there at the weekend proper.
EDIT: seen your edit, and agree. I'll shut up, keep scribbling, and longing for that first beer... have some Cloudwater prototypes... drooling already...
Shame about the boozers Kelvin. Just when we need them most. My mates have lost there bar/restaurant which had been going for 15 years. There will be plenty more who are clinging on by their fingertips.
Good job theres no shortage of volounteers to keep the ones still going in business. Can't bloody wait for our first proper Monday Night Pub Ride, finishing where the name suggests it should
Finishing Sunday's ride with a pint outside was an utter joy. The booking thing makes that more difficult, but so me it. Need to get all the numbers in my phone....
Problem is, with most of Mytholmroyd closed, that leaves Hebden, which means weekday really at the moment... it's heaving at the weekends now (which is good really, obvs).
Finishing Sunday’s ride with a pint outside was an utter joy.
I went for an explore along the Trans Pennine and thought I'd chance my arm at a place I've seen getting ready to open a few weeks, back, and they squeezed me into a corner, lovely cool pint after 30 miles was such a joyous thing, I swear I could've cried.
Will you people please stop enjoying a pint down the pub.
According to binners it is very likely to make you vote Tory.
First one's on me if you're ever up in Manchester, ernie.
We can go to my local for a chat with the racists 🙂
When things are proper open, I want a tour of... Track, Cloudwater and Squawk... three amazing breweries... and I've only just realised that they're all in the same area of MCR.
We need a proper pub crawl (or a brewery crawl) when all this nonsense is done
I’m sure Starmer and his team can cope with engaging with British Muslim communities, without having to ignore British Jewish communities for fear of being called “a corporate Yes man; a puppet in a stuffed suit” for doing so.
Who said anything about him ignoring Jews? This is about him acting at the behest of a particular influential right wing lobbying group. Oh, you're not making the mistake of assuming all Jews are the same, are you? Oh dear. What a trap to fall into. Perhaps that beer's gone to your head. Still; many people make that mistake about Muslims, so I'm sure you can be forgiven. Enjoy your pint.
We can go to my local for a chat with the racists 🙂
Now that, is funny. 😀
Oh, you’re not making the mistake of assuming all Jews are the same, are you?
No.
