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Sir! Keir! Starmer!
 

Sir! Keir! Starmer!

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Mleh, 10, maybe 11 people read Novara.

They are very adept at getting their people onto TV though. Most of their ‘opinion forming’ work is done via TV media and Social Media shares… the website comes a distant third.

Im going to stick my neck out here and say that he’s the next PM with at least 3 terms in him.

I so want you to be right, but still think he’s going to be wiped aside at a general election by either Johnson or his replacement pushing simple impossible dreams and lies, and evading all questioning and challenges using the toolset they’ve proven to work so far, and a lot of highly targeted, contradictory, divisive, false messaging.


 
Posted : 15/05/2020 12:01 pm
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ransos, the exchange of posts with you has become tiresome.
You can confirm for yourself the wider interest in PMQs.
As for '...evident excitedness' - wrong; if you had said 'positivity' that would have been accurate.


 
Posted : 15/05/2020 12:04 pm
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Watching channel 4 news leading with care home deaths would suggest that Keir Starmer has, rightly, massively drawn attention to this issue and the governments complacency

Exactly what the opposition is meant to be doing. Holding the government to account.

Maybe if we’d actually had an opposition for the last 4 years then the government wouldn’t have been allowed to get this complacent and many more people would still be alive


 
Posted : 15/05/2020 9:07 pm
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An opposition, awake to political realities rather than just sneering from behind a placard.

It’ll never catch on...


 
Posted : 15/05/2020 9:32 pm
 rone
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Maybe if we’d actually had an opposition for the last 4 years then the government wouldn’t have been allowed to get this complacent and many more people would still be alive

You are utterly deluded.

Somehow - it's Corbyn's fault we are where we are with C-19?

Take your logic one step further - you have your functioning opposition now - why have they not reduced the deaths? Because if an opposition that is no longer in power can exert influence you talk of then the current opposition should be doing an even more robust job? How many lives have they saved?

Oh the Government is worse than ever and their popularity is still increasing BTW.

Ian Austin is available for a pint.


 
Posted : 15/05/2020 11:10 pm
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ransos, the exchange of posts with you has become tiresome.

If you don't wish to substantiate your claim that's fine.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 12:28 am
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Do you think Liverpool would prefer to play Manchester City or Norwich?

Corbyn wasn’t even Norwich. It was like an FA Cup game against a third division side. The political Accrington Stanley

Keir Starmer has offered more opposition in 2 months to these ****s than Corbyn managed in 4 years of clueless 10 second shouty Tweets.

Thankfully, we now appear to have an opposition again.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 12:49 am
 dazh
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Thankfully, we now appear to have an opposition again.

As I said before, you only think that because now you're prepared to listen. Starmer has had no more ability to change things than Corbyn did. In fact the labour party and the unions got the government to bring in the furlough scheme before Starmer became leader. Credit where it's due?


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 1:20 am
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Eh? Starmer has been setting the media agenda since PMQ’s on Wednesday?

The only time Corbyn managed that was when another photo was unearthed of him standing grinning with another bunch of terrorists


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 1:46 am
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You've bitched about Corbyn like a massive bitch for the last christ knows how long - do you think you could give it a rest, now he's no longer leader?


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 1:59 am
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I will do when his fan club stop mourning his return to the allotment and appreciate that his time as leader* will be as quickly forgotten as his decades as an anonymous backbencher.

The point I’m making here is that the Tory’s have had 4 years without anything even remotely resembling a functioning opposition. And the complacency that that’s fostered has contributed to where we are now.

Thankfully that no longer appears to be the case.

* the word is used figuratively etc


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 2:26 am
 ctk
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Depends what you want from an opposition. An opposition that is actually different or an opposition that is the same but appears a bit more competent.

Corbyn was elected as he was different to the Tories. Opposed austerity!, opposed the various wars, he had some ideas if you remember the leadership hustings unlike the other candidates.

Its clear the Labour Party cant win with Corbyn or any of that bubble. But when Corbyn was elected it was equally clear Labour couldn't win from the centre.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 4:04 am
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Anyway.... Starmer drowns puppies


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 4:41 am
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Why do people keep posting crap from Novara like its a source the general public have actually heard of? Christ, more folk have actually heard of the Morning Star and look how seriously that's taken!


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:54 am
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I've been taking an interest in this Starmer love in post on and off for a while. In no shape or form am I defending Johnson or the governments handling of the crisis. The only opinion I can offer is its easy to slam what the current administration is doing from the sidelines and with the benefit of hindsight when you know you will never be in a position to prove you would have been able to have done things any different. Assuming we never have another situation like this ever again.
So far I'm liking what I see with KS compared to his predecessor but time and policies will tell when all this is behind us.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 8:53 am
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I don't think hindsight is required to slam the government's handling of this crisis.  It's clear that they can't communicate in an honest fashion provide clear advice or are following scientific recommendations, BMA backing teacher unions is the latest in a long line of this.

Other countries are acting in a more timely and cautious manner and appear to be protecting their populations, so learning and precedent is being set that can utilised by this government, yet they can't even copy others as that would be seen as a weakness (possibly, I'm not sure what stops them, probably ideology).

The Tories need their feet held to the fire for their handling of this as they continue to put us all at risk.  KS is doing an admirable job so far and the approach appears to be working with the right wing press questioning the actions of the government.   Hell even Matt Lucas and Phillip Schofield are doing a good job of this which suggests that government advice is poor from the outset, no hindsight required!


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:30 am
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Depends what you want from an opposition. An opposition that is actually different or an opposition that is the same but appears a bit more competent.

Well, quite. My hope is that Starmer will lead a genuine opposition but some of his actions so far are not at all promising.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:41 am
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I suspect we're all riding a bit of a wave of relief, with Starmer appearing to rub far fewer people up the wrong way than JC seemed to.
I've personally rejoiced at the PMQ performances so far.
It's an interesting comment that

some of his actions so far are not at all promising

Can you say which actions those are?
Genuine question, and my apologies if you've already articulated them up there ^^^ somewhere and I've just missed them.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 10:39 am
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An opposition that is actually different

Is there where the “Starmer is just like the Tories” nonsense begins?
We all know it’s coming.
Let’s get it done and out of the way.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 10:43 am
 ctk
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kelvin
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An opposition that is actually different
Is there where the “Starmer is just like the Tories” nonsense begins?
We all know it’s coming.
Let’s get it done and out of the way.

I thought my post was clear but for you K- I was putting the election of Corbyn in context rather than criticising Starmer. Labour must get elected next! Its self defeating to criticise him for the sake of it and I'm disappointed that Labour cant get its shit together and pull in one way. The centrists should have got behind Corbz the lefties should get behind Starmer.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 1:13 pm
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Agreed. I’m a ‘lefty’, who only started voting Labour because Corbyn shifted their polices. I can get behind Starmer, and will be voting for Labour under him. But “getting behind him” doesn’t mean that I can’t talk about my concerns as regards his lack of charisma and how he can counteract the new bread of populist Tories at the next general election. Likewise, getting behind Corbyn didn’t mean turning a blind eye to who he appointed as advisors, or the way he dealt with Labour MPs, especially female ones. My preferred policies were very much inline with Corbyn’s, I’m one of the few who welcomed the broadband initiative for example, and I even support his long standing position on nuclear weapons that he had to put to one side as leader, but he turned out to be an utterly useless party leader. Being voted in leader the first time helped change the party to one I could vote for. Once he’d shown he wasn’t up to the job of leader, he should have moved on or been moved on. I’ll be leaving blind faith and lack of critical thinking to the Johnson followers.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 1:23 pm
 ctk
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I’ll be leaving blind faith and lack of critical thinking to the Johnson followers.

These are the people Keir needs to win over


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 3:07 pm
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Can you say which actions those are?
Genuine question, and my apologies if you’ve already articulated them up there ^^^ somewhere and I’ve just missed them.

So far he's failed to support renters and is backed by the Friends of Israel. I don't think this should be Labour territory. There's other stuff in the article upthread that was dismissed without anyone really saying why it was wrong.

I think there's a real risk of Starmer being the polar opposite of Corbyn: an effective parliamentary leader who isn't fully behind what should be core Labour values. I say this as someone who put him as second preference...


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 3:15 pm
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Labour Friends of Israel seek a two state solution. The Labour Party has long had support for a two state solution as policy. What exactly is your problem?


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 4:37 pm
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Thanks ransos - I see where you're coming from; the renters thing seems to be an odd decision to me, too, although I can't say I understand all the details or ramifications.

For me I guess, I'm happy to see someone electable, and performing competently in the lead of the opposition. I'm going to accept things that I wouldn't necessarily agree with as a price I'm, so far, very happy to pay to see the tories on the back foot.

I joined the Labour Party after the last election, although I think I'm atypical of a labour supporter in some ways, as this bunch of idiots we've currently got need to be stopped in my view, at almost any cost. I'm still finding my feet as a new party member, and need to get more up to speed with exactly those kind of issues (above) that people are showing concern about, so I understand them better.

Thanks for indulging me.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 4:49 pm
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I really don't give a stuff about Israel they are a pain in the arse.

Therefore I really don't care about anyone elses opinion of Israeli.

What I do want us someone to hold the bloody Tories to account.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 6:12 pm
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I see where you’re coming from; the renters thing seems to be an odd decision to me, too, although I can’t say I understand all the details or ramifications.

I don't think it's in anyone's top ten of big things to worry about at the moment.

Unless you are a renter, in which case it's about no. 5


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 6:30 pm
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I really don’t give a stuff about Israel they are a pain in the arse.

If you don't give a stuff about other people's problems then vote Tory.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 6:36 pm
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Labour Friends of Israel seek a two state solution. The Labour Party has long had support for a two state solution as policy. What exactly is your problem?

The group is an apologist for the racist Israeli government.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 6:45 pm
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Can anyone point me at some information about the renters thing, please...?


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:01 pm
 dazh
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or the way he dealt with Labour MPs, especially female ones

???

He had a majority female shadow cabinet and women in most of the senior shadow cabinet posts. I'd be quite happy to never talk about Corbyn again but it's this sort of ludicrous comment which keeps bringing me back. He was no more a sexist/mysoginist than he was a racist, and now he's back volunteering at food banks in his community rather than in the media spotlight people think they can just make whatever shit up about him that they like. It's pathetic.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:25 pm
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It’s pathetic.

That doesn’t sound like a conversation starter… so I won’t bother.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:35 pm
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I see where you’re coming from; the renters thing seems to be an odd decision to me, too, although I can’t say I understand all the details or ramifications.

I don’t think it’s in anyone’s top ten of big things to worry about at the moment.

Unless you are a renter, in which case it’s about no. 5

I'd say the risk of losing a roof over your head is pretty high up there but whatever, must be lovely to be financially secure and not have that worry. Meanwhile those at the bottom aren't worth considering. Charming.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/10/keir-starmer-failing-renters-coronavirus-labour-momentum-says

Forget who is asking for what, read the details and see why it's bad.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:44 pm
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The Guardian is reporting the latest polling has Starmers approval ratings above Johnsons after this week.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 7:47 pm
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With that renters thing, is there any possibility of an argument that it's a temporary position to avoid hardship now, and then consider a better solution when the biggest issues are under better control?

I can see a sweeping "cancel all rent for a period" being the kind of thing that might have unintended consequences?


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 8:10 pm
 MSP
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The tories are going to try and shift the narrative now, they are starting to play the blame game with the EU again, so they can get back onto familiar territory where they will expect to win, and at least have the support of their media allias. They are also deliberately antagonizing the teaching unions, which IMO is a politically motivated action to try and draw the old anti union battle lines, and pit the private vs public sector.

Most of the press will quickly line up behind the tories on these two issues, so it's going to be a tougher jobs, especially if the unions rise to the bait, which while they have every right to do so, will damage them and labour. Play it right and the tories will just keep embarrassing themselves as they lie and lie in an attempt to create more divisions in society, but there is danger ahead.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 8:10 pm
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Agree with that ^^^.

Starmer needs to keep pressing for specifics...

"Can the right honourable gentleman please explain how the EU has made the covid-19 situation in the UK worse / withdrawn cooperation / killed baby robins?"

As for the teachers and their unions, they need to not rise to the bait like they have. Using phrases like 'withdrawing cooperation' is dumb. They need to lay out a series of easily understandable scenarios and questions and ask for specific clarification on how they should be handled practically. Bohnson's lot will try to give it the 'we cannot anticipate every situation' bullshit, which is where the unions should so 'of course not, just the three or four we have asked about'.

Keep holding these bastards up to scrutiny. The longer they are in full view the more stupid they look.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 8:31 pm
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I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

Surely this offers another opportunity for Starmer to side with public sector workers who’s stock has never been higher and point out what we all know... that the Tories couldn’t give a flying **** about them


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 8:58 pm
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Hopefully Starmer will end up being like the 'Marvel's the Punisher' for the Tories.
Love to see him go head to head with Pritstick Patel.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:08 pm
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As for link to Guardian article on previous page - based on momentum attempting to stir shit.
Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters but momentum - if they truly were labour party supporters - would be looking to work with the party and it's new leadership.
Instead they continue agitating for their narrow range of interests and fail, yet again, to see the bigger picture.
Next weeks PMQs will provide another opportunity for Starmer to humiliate johnson as the incompetent he is; tory (mis)management of covid-19....the gift that keeps on giving.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:17 pm
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I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

I was absolutely amazed at the official government twitter and facebook posts- absolutely wall-to-wall furious parents. Even the bots got drowned out. It's obviously not a great way to judge real public opinion but it didn't feel at all like the usual bottom-half-of-the-internet


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:21 pm
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I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

I think they have a reasonable chance of splitting teachers off from NHS staff. There is a lot of latent anti-teacher sentiment amongst 30-40 somethings who resent the holidays and the shorter days (I know that is not really the case a lot of the time, but this is all about 'impressions' rather specifics).

Remember Joris is all about vague impressions rather than specifics. That is where bullshitters thrive.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:28 pm
 MSP
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It will only take a few days of media manipulation, blaming teachers for blocking life returning to normal, being uncooperative, not willing to take the risks everybody else has to etc etc and the public mood could change. The tories are masters at it.

It is better ploy for the tories to attack a union (or a unionized profession to be more accurate) than lay into Starmer directly, if the union mishandle the situation, Starmer will be forced to defend them or denounce them, but he has little control over them. If this time the union gets it right, they just turn on someone else next time until someone cracks.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 9:34 pm
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Good news! Lansman resigns.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52694053
Love this quote....said he would not miss "operating against a backdrop of warring factions, abuse and hatred".
He and his fellow travellers were responsible for warring, abuse and hatred.
FFS, what a hypocrite.
Definitely won't be missed.


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 10:01 pm
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Good riddance to him and the rest of his millionaire Marxist chums. 3 years too late

Hypocrite is most definitely the word. Amongst many others that spring readily to mind

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 11:08 pm
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As for link to Guardian article on previous page – based on momentum attempting to stir shit.
Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters but momentum – if they truly were labour party supporters – would be looking to work with the party and it’s new leadership.

Like I said, ignore the messenger and instead concentrate on the message rather than giving it something barely worthy of lip service.

As for the "no true scotsman" argument...

extreme ironing!


 
Posted : 16/05/2020 11:55 pm
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squirrel, I understand the message and don't do lip service to or for anything.
My comments still stand.
Any thoughts about Lansman resigning as momentum chief exec?
Milne and McCluskey are now looking more and more like ghosts at the feast; let's hope that Unite members get rid of red len and Starmer shows Milne the door - Augean stables and all that.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:25 am
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Milnes already gone. And Jennie Formby.

All paid off on the big fat juicy contracts they awarded themselves a week before they delivered the worst election defeat for 85 years

Millionaires already, they rewarded themselves very, very handsomely for their epic failure

All very socialist, comrades

And now they’re rats leaving the ship they sunk.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:34 am
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binners - I knew formby had gone; must have missed milne's departure; time for a celebratory drink as the process of washing the shit away continues.
Their self-awarded contracts amounted to nothing less than fraud.
Despite the best efforts of milne & co the ship hasn't sunk; it's been holed but is being repaired.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:53 am
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Starmer is a multi-millionaire and was financed by squillionnaire industrialists. Why? Because they knew he would back the landlords and business owners, and they were right.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 6:52 am
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Frank - stop rewriting history - most of the infighting came from the right of the party who behaved appallingly from supporting tories in Scotland to continual briefing against the party in England


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 7:01 am
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I understand the message and don’t do lip service to or for anything.

So do you have any thoughts other than "Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters"? What should the opposition be doing? Do you think they are doing it effectively?

I'm not talking about or interested in Corbyn, Milne, Marx or whoever else you trot out. This topic is about Starmer, Corbyn and chums have their own.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:12 am
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Starmer's not perfect, particularly if you wanted a more left wing but electable version of it, it does seem quite Tory lite in places.

But right now it feels like being stood in a house that's on fire, but I'm refusing to go outside because I'm only in my pyjamas and it's cold out there. Anything that is an alternative to what we have now has to be a step in the right direction.

And I'm certainly looking forward to SKS QC taking Boris apart time and again over the coming weeks and months.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:31 am
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or another way - I've been out of the town and missed the last bus home. There's not another one until tomorrow and it's an eight mile walk.

Or, there's a bus over there that doesn't go right past my house but it does go to the next village which is only two miles away.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:35 am
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For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:54 am
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For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV

Exactly. What I said before he was elected. He was the right choice for many reasons but he won't help them get elected. As I said a few months ago, the average voter won't even know who he is and if/when they do hear him they will just glaze over.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:57 am
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For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV

Interesting. It's always insightful to hear what people who are not hugely glued to politics think about events and people.

You could replace Starmer in your sentence with Corbyn at the time, it was a common criticism.

For those who don't watch parliament etc. Where would you most be likely to see news/updates from the opposition leader?


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:04 am
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Surely the kicking he's giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

If it's not, then we have a system ever more broken beyond repair than I first thought.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:18 am
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Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

You'd hope, and assume. But is it really?


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:19 am
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For those who don’t watch parliament etc. Where would you most be likely to see news/updates from the opposition leader?

That's a pretty key issue across all politics. How do you put political issues out there where more of the "I don't do politics" types will see it, understand it and start to engage with it.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:22 am
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You could replace Starmer in your sentence with Corbyn at the time, it was a common criticism.

Not really Corbyn was often featured but for the wrong reasons.

Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

Nope, I only knew because I have been looking here regularly, I popped in a few weeks back thinking that Starmer seems shite and was surprised to read here the idea that he was doing so well.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:26 am
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Due to PMQs we have spoken about Starmer .

Whenever someone speaks to me about Dumbojo I say how refreshing it is to have Starmer , a man who knows what he is talking about.

We are spreading the word.

Even if you tell your soppy ,racist ,bigot mother what a nice man he is and how handsome he looks we can just make people aware of him.

Anyone who doesn't like him...compare him to Dumbojo not Corbyn.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:43 am
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You're right. Quick Google and one of the most obvious articles is a red top having a pop because he owns a £1m house and several acres of green belt that "could" be worth £10m. Clearly, he can't represent ordinary people with wealth like that, but the Tories can? If people really fall for that, we deserve every dry bumming we get FFS!

Surely, if he wanted to turn seven acres of green belt into £10m, he would be better off backing the Tories


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:44 am
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I suspect he gets better coverage because he's their placeman. He'll be lionised in the media (whilst attacking like a kitten) as leader of the opposition (Piers Morgan does a better job) whilst delivering a moderate Tory agenda and not at all putting the wind up his backers, owners of supermarket chains, car distributors or indeed those middle eastern interests.
It's then the job of the press to persuade the poor men to go round shouting the case for the rich men's candidate, and don't they do it well. People are rightly getting concerned about easing off the lockdown but could they tell you what Labour's policy is? Not owning a tv is my excuse but having looked at Starmer's pronouncements they seem as terrifyingly socialist like 'the Welfare State is a nice thing to have' but then that's why he is where he is and Corbyn isn't.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 9:47 am
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Of the UK electorate, that bothers to vote on a regular basis.

How many would easily be categorised as “moderate Tory”?


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 10:38 am
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Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

Nope, I only knew because I have been looking here regularly, I popped in a few weeks back thinking that Starmer seems shite and was surprised to read here the idea that he was doing so well.

Unless you take a real interest in following the news and do it sensibly through some reliable sources, most people don't see this stuff on a day to day basis.

And if you were to form your opinion on content seen on Facebook, then you'll just see he's a pedophile sympathiser.

Piers Morgan does a better job

Piers Morgan is an angry bully.

Corbyn struggled because he spent most of his time angrily shouting down the opposition without displaying any real leadership qualities of his own.

Time will tell if Starmer has all the right ingredients, but his intelligence, temperament and comprehensive approach are exactly what we need. Enough of all this tribal bullshit and my dad's got bigger muscles than your dad. Time we acted like grown ups again and stopped shouting at each other.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 11:34 am
 dazh
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but his intelligence, temperament and comprehensive approach are exactly what we need.

For what? What will this approach change? It'll increase his chances of winning an election, but what then will he do? The corrollary to this intelligent and polite approach is that nothing much will change, which is why the rightwing press and their backers are not too alarmed at the prospect of PM Starmer. It seems fairly obvious to me fairly that people in this country don't really want to change anything, they just want to be insulated and feel good about all the injustices that are perpetrated on them and others. Starmer's going to be a great candidate to do that.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 11:58 am
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Piers Morgan is an angry bully.

Piers Morgan uses manufactured anger to self publicise.

He supposedly 'traduced' that crook Bridgen the other day.

He really didn't he just shouted at him and Bridgen sat there with a "I'm just here to soak up some heat, I've already had the cheque, the money is in the bank" look on his face.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:01 pm
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How many would easily be categorised as “moderate Tory”?

Probably a lot more than you'd think.

dahz as usual your own extreme views are blinding you, why us it important for Starmer to be electable? Here's some reasons:

1. Get Boris and his downright dangerous bunch of incompetent morons out.
2. Prevent next set of incompetent morons from getting in.
3. Stop a group of competent hard right people getting in.
4. Bringing politics back towards the centre.
5. Undo some of the madness that has been perpetrated on us and provide some stable governance to reduce the impact of what's coming.

Ok you may not get the left wing utopia you're after but the country will be a lot better off with Starmer in charge. The 5 points above do represent significant change from where we are today, it might not be free broadband for everyone and renationalise everything but they were never going to happen anyway.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:13 pm
 dazh
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dahz as usual your own extreme views

If you think my views are extreme then we truly are screwed as I reckon I'm fairly conservative these days 🙂

- Tackling the climate emergency

- A fair and transparent democratic system

- Progressive taxation and an end to avoidance/evasion by off-shoreing.

- State ownership (but necessarily operation) of strategic utilities and infrastructure.

That's it. That's all I'm bothered about. If that is extreme or a 'left wing utopia' then we might as well give up now and let the right wing nutters do what they want.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:32 pm
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a moderate Tory agenda

There we are. We all knew it was coming. And most of us know it is nonsense.

It’ll increase his chances of winning an election, but what then will he do?

I’m not sure it will, but hope that it does. You’re not going to join in with the calls of “he’d just be a Tory PM with a red rose” brigade are you Dazh? If so, why did you vote for him?


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:33 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13390
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You’re not going to join in with the calls of “he’d just be a Tory PM with a red rose” brigade are you Dazh?

Would you be pleased if I did? If you can find any instances of me saying Starmer is a tory go for it. I guarantee you won't find any, and never will. I don't vote for tories.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:39 pm
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4. Bringing politics back towards the centre.

Leaving aside the implicit claim that the centre is the right place to be a cursory look at the recent political history shows this idea to be badly flawed.
We had this under Blair. He went for the "centre". The tories moved rightwards to distinguish themselves. Blair moved rightwards to keep the "centre".
End result being we now have hard right policies which are considered the norm. Not quite as bad as the USA but far worse than elsewhere in Europe.
Cameron then used the tactic of keeping hard right on some things and moving towards the "centre" on others to boost his support.
To use theotherjonv bus analogy. The problem is if you keep using the bus to the next door village then the original bus gets cancelled and you then end up with a choice of that bus or another one to the next village along.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:42 pm
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I'm amazed that someone who has apparently said so little and has no media coverage has managed to convince some posters that he is a Tory or the second coming of Blair. Where's the manifesto they have read as I'd like to take a look?


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:49 pm
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For what? What will this approach change?

I would've thought that was obvious. It brings back sensibility and inspires constructive fact-driven debate.

Even if he were a hardcore Thacherite, it bodes better for all of our futures because it's the only way we can possibly progress on to something better.

Having two political parties shouting at each other, manipulating the public through emotional and divisive topics, is only ever going to result in a constant battle and the pendulum forever swinging back and forth.

You might get what you wish for momentarily, but it will be quickly gone without any solid foundations. And it's those foundations we need before absolutely anything else.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 12:50 pm
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To be perfectly honest anything right now to get rid of ****s like Raab, Johnson, Patel et al.

Blair and his 'Tory Lite', anything.

Anything to stop my country pursuing a xenophobic alt right agenda which is making us the laughing stock of the world and turning us into even more of a global irrelevance than we already were.

Internationalist, cooperative, grown up.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 1:38 pm
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I’m amazed that someone who has apparently said so little and has no media coverage has managed to convince some posters that he is a Tory or the second coming of Blair.

The problem that I and a lot of others had with Corbyn and those around him was not policy-based. Apart from some fruit-loop ideas, there was broad approval of a lot of the policies. The problem was one of competence. You looked at the team he'd assembled and I wouldn't personally have trusted them to run a bath, never mind the country.

I feel exactly the same when I look at the gang of lightweights, Brexiteer zealots, and rank incompetents that presently occupy the Tory front bench.

So there is a lot to be said about watching a man who looks serious, like he has thoroughly grasped his brief and is up to speed on all the details. Hardly an accusation you could level at Joris Bohnson. And just look how that's playing out. He's even lost the Torygraph. People talk about the press backing the Tory's under any circumstances, but the press like to back winners. Hence the support for Blair. They didn't want to be seen to be blindly following a Tory party mired in sleaze and corruption.

The mood at the moment of an anxious nation is to look for a feeling of security in a leader who could locate their own arse using both hands. Anyone seen our glorious leader of late? No. Because he's hiding under his desk again, dreading next Wednesday where he will be dismantled at PMQs again.


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 1:46 pm
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see the Daily Fail are now going after his "socialist" credentials.... as he owns some land in surrey behind his house (that could be worth 10 mil with planning permission that it doesn't have though the council is under pressure to provide planning permission.... yada-yada)


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 1:48 pm
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Won’t somebody think of the donkeys!!!


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 1:56 pm
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The next headline will be along the lines of “Kier boots out donkey sanctuary to profit from land sale”...


 
Posted : 17/05/2020 8:06 pm
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