MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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That’s only going to end one way, and correctly so, they are liucky they didn’t get shot, IMO.
Okay you think they are lucky that they weren't shot. Other people find the clip somewhat concerning, after doing the rounds on social media that particular clip.has been picked up by the mainstream media, including the Daily Mirror and Sky News.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fresh-footage-sheds-new-light-33325874
https://news.sky.com/video/what-do-we-know-about-the-manchester-airport-incident-13185171
According to Sky News the copper who uses the pepper spray is the same copper that later kicks the guy in the face and stamps on his head, although I don't know how they can be sure of that
Okay you think they are lucky that they weren’t shot. Other people find the clip somewhat concerning
I actually don't find it that concerning... people (as in members of the public) shouldn't be allowed to act that agressivley in an airport, of all places.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting the kicking in the head of someone prone is in any way justified, when other techniques available such as wrestling pin holds, etc. are available, but we can't see the wider angle in those clips and if there was a danger of 'the mob' taking a gun from one of the officers...
..who were clearly split up trying to restrain various individuals, and unable to back each other up, so they must have all been in an extreme protection mode.
Remember this is in an airport! Not your typical friday night at whetherspoons. Some of the members of the public in the videos were expressing very intimidating body language, despite the fact they had tazers pointed at them by armed police...
I actually don’t find it that concerning… people (as in members of the public) shouldn’t be allowed to act that agressivley in an airport, of all places.
What in the clip being discussed did you find the most aggressive act?
Yeah, the way those two lads were aggressively holding their phones to aggressively record the police whilst they innocently punched an old woman in the face triggered me no end.
When retired senior police officers state that the police action was disproportionate I immediately think "iT's WoKe GOrN MAD" too.
The bit where a bunch of knob heads are fronting off/ starting some trouble, against armed police in an airport.
Please share that clip.
Again no full clips but that’s interesting to see some men not complying with what the Police were asking. IMO even from that snippet of vid they deserved to be dealt with appropriately ie made to comply with force (that doesn’t include being kicked in the head)
People have very short memories, it’s not long back that airports were being targeted by people with bombs, even hospitals, and lack of compliance is quite rightly going to get these Police on high alert
It is frustrating that because the Police have to do these things right they have to not comment for now or go on the interweb wth other videos etc
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That second video isn’t good. I’m not seeing any aggressive behaviour from those lads. Just confusion and asking questions. Looks a bit tense but that’s par for the course when stress kicks in surely. Pepper spray seemed excessive. I’m still withholding judgment until everything is known though.
I would hope that 'high alert' actually involved some professionalism of some sort. I can't imagine ' high alert' training involved that carnage. Do you really think that's who you want dealing with high security situations.
I'm all for sitting on the fence but those clips show some horrendous policing regardless of what went on.
^this.
Stress testing is a key part of the conditioning of individuals who are required to work in high risk/threat, dynamic, and fluid environments so they can remain controlled, measured and respond appropriately/lawfully.
People are fallible and some degree of error or mistake has to be expected, but there are limits to that.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that further down the pipeline there's a degree of accountability that sits with others responsible for the screening & training of individuals as well.
As a case in point a senior officer was sacked about bullshitting his military CV, so as much as this fella has questions to answer about his actions, the system should also be scrutinised to ensure it's selecting the right people and preparing and conditioning them to a level that is robust and practicable for the role they're required to fulfil.
Again no full clips but that’s interesting to see some men not complying with what the Police were asking.
What were they asking?
IMO even from that snippet of vid they deserved to be dealt with appropriately ie made to comply with force (that doesn’t include being kicked in the head)
Pepper spray in the face?
People have very short memories, it’s not long back that airports were being targeted by people with bombs, even hospitals, and lack of compliance is quite rightly going to get these Police on high alert
What have they done wrong? Not sure that bringing bomb threats into the discussion is helpful - as far as I can see, they were filiming a tense situation. FWIW I believe that the policeman who pepper sprayed the man in the gray top is the same one who kicked the man on the floor.
it’s not long back that airports were being targeted by people with bombs
Airports are still potential targets for terrorists. There is no evidence that police officers in various clips thought they were dealing with terrorist related incidents.
There is no evidence that police officers in various clips thought they were dealing with terrorist
Really ? I saw a group of men not complying with what they were being asked to do. Then at some point Police were attacked. That’s pretty good evidence in itself
What were those men doing that in any way equates it with a terrorist incident?
You honestly believe that the police officers thought they might be dealing with terrorists?
In all the countless stuff I read about what happened in Manchester airport not once do I recall the word terrorist or the term terrorist threat being used
Edit:
Then at some point Police were attacked.
I am not saying it didn't happen but I haven't seen that clip, presumably you have - have you got a link? It would interesting to see how it happened.
I saw a group of men not complying with what they were being asked to do. Then at some point Police were attacked. That’s pretty good evidence in itself
You are Lee Anderson. Where do I claim my prize?
There appears to be a lot of people here who already happy to ignore that 3 armed police officers ended up being taken to hospital, one with a broken nose. What do you want the police to do. Ask them nicely if they want tea a medals and a lift home. This all appears to have started because the kids of the lady they were collecting decided that they would deal with the person she was accusing rather than the police or airport staff.
There appears to be a lot of people here who already happy to ignore that 3 armed police officers ended up being taken to hospital, one with a broken nose.
That's a complete misrepresentation. For the umpteenth time, the altercation does not justify kicking a prone, motionless man in the head, nor pepper spraying an onlooker.
There appears to be a lot of people here who already happy to ignore that 3 armed police officers ended up being taken to hospital, one with a broken nose.
Nope.
This. As a civilian, you break my mates nose and I’m going to stuff you in a wheelie bin, and to **** with the law and consequences.
As a uniformed professional, there are rules that govern the use of force and that force has to be justified. As I said earlier if whilst in the process of trying to allegedly remove a firearm from an officer he’d been booted in the grid, I’d not be too concerned.
This was not that. This was an overreach from an individual trained and empowered by law to use violence of action in the lawful conduct of his duties. Dude lost his composure and escalated to a level that was disproportionate to the threat. Very doubtful further video will change that.
I’ve spoken to three friends now who are armed officers and all are deeply uncomfortable with the level of force used in that snippet.
For the umpteenth time, the altercation does not justify kicking a prone, motionless man in the head, nor pepper spraying an onlooker.
completely agree, but these were not nice gentlemen innocently passing their time at Manchester Airport . They attacked Police Officers
completely agree, but these were not nice gentlemen innocently passing their time at Manchester Airport . They attacked Police Officers
Again - not the guys in these videos. They've been released without charge.
Again – not the guys in these videos. They’ve been released without charge.
From the BBC.
Four men, aged 19, 25, 28 and 31, were arrested on suspicion of assault and affray and had since been bailed.
Four men, aged 19, 25, 28 and 31, were arrested on suspicion of assault and affray and had since been bailed.
Not the two brothers in the face kicking head stamping incident, they were released without charge.
So presumably there was little evidence that they had done anything wrong.
Again – not the guys in these videos. They’ve been released without charge.
Provide a source. Because I can't find any reference. Specifically to the 'without charge' part.
And if it was without charge the police would have summarised that in their press release, the solicitor doesn't mention 'without charge' he states once realised they had make their own way to hospital.
So I'd caution about spreading that unless you can confirm it.
There's two elements at play here, a suspected assault of which the officers were called to, which was then compounded by alleged assaults on them and the associated affray. Then the context around that use of force in response to that incident.
They very well may be violent shitheads who decided to have a dustup at the airport and then smashed a police officer in the face.
That should be dealt with as is the law.
And any of the cops who overreached should also be held accountable. It's not an either or situation.
Violent shitheads shouldn't get a pass because a cop may also be one.
completely agree, but these were not nice gentlemen innocently passing their time at Manchester Airport
They probably started out that way. One issue that Manchester Airport has had for years is large family groups assisting a single airport passenger. For context, 160 FPNs were issued at the airport for associated breaches of COVID regs up to March '21. British Transport Police issued 215 for the whole rail network between March'20 and Feb'22
This in no way excuses anyone's conduct in 2024, but it hopefully adds another brush stroke to the picture
Like most airports there's little trouble airside because people are identifiable and have been searched, the bars are open though 🙂
A journo on Twitter -
https://twitter.com/RespectIsVital/status/1816446649931014460
Reading it back, there IS ambiguity, I'm not sure now if he's saying they WERE released without charge and GMP need to say that, or whether he's asking GMP to say whether or not it's without charge - not sure if GMP will be saying much of anything with an investigation into their own conduct ongoing. Would suspects arrested on suspicision of assaulting armed police normally be released? I haven't seen the word bail mentioned anywhere.
I haven’t seen the word bail mentioned anywhere.
Assuming procedures haven't been changed, they've possibly either been "released under investigation" (RUI) or told that there isn't a case to answer
RUI and bail are different, people on bail can have conditions imposed on their "freedom". RUI is a simple release while the investigation continues. RUI is contentious because it's potentially without end, possibly something that Labour will address??
Finally, maybe, t
No involvement
Do the investigating independently
Thank you for the insight. Can't be an easy time for the police right now! 🙁
The terrorist inferences are dog whistle racism again. Look - brown people fighting, must be terrorists! Being a dick is an equal opportunity thing, mostly men, mostly young.
RUI and bail are different, people on bail can have conditions imposed on their “freedom”. RUI is a simple release while the investigation continues. RUI is contentious because it’s potentially without end, possibly something that Labour will address??
RUI was brought in because people could be on bail (police bail) indefinitely but with conditions. RUI is needed because under the law at present you can’t be arrested, set free whilst the investigation continues and then be re-arrested for the same thing with no real change in evidence - that would be an abuse of process. There has to be some facility to allow arrest and release whilst the investigation continues as some times it can take months to get hold of evidence post-arrest.
The officer is facing a criminal investigation, which tells its own story, something that has always been a big no-no is kicking or stamping the head, especially in this scenario where he had just deployed his taser and the victim was under the effects of that at the time of the head kicking, i can't see any reason for that kick and stamp, not even terrorist related, as he'd never have deployed a taser if that was the threat.
Still, i've only seen the two clips doing the round, nothing prior to the guy being prone on the floor, i'm not sure GMP are seeing it either as they're initiating criminal charges!
they’re initiating criminal charges!
I don't think they are, yet
where he had just deployed his taser and the victim was under the effects of that at the time of the head kicking,
Doesn't being rigid during a tazering actually make the head kick much more potentially dangerous?
Still, i’ve only seen the two clips doing the round, nothing prior to the guy being prone on the floor, i’m not sure GMP are seeing it either as they’re initiating criminal charges
4 people have been arrested and bailed on suspicion of assault and affray
The police officer has been suspend pending investigation. If anything the 4 on bail are closer to being charged than anyone
4 people have been arrested and bailed on suspicion of assault and affray
And a further two released without charge.
We keep hearing about 4 officers in hospital -GB news listed them as 'serious' though no other channel or report as claimed likewise.
Any altercation, for example officer scrapes knee arresting someone is sent to hospital, and we hear that a lot, only we also hear they're released a couple of hours later, which is more akin to having something cleaned and dressed, because if it was serious they'd be kept in, and the police would quickly report that, which they havent. So from that we can possibly surmise was a routine HSE check over as per their regulations/union.
As to the broken nose. Will we find that to be the actual case or is it a bit of swelling, nowt broken, keep off the charlie for a few weeks.
If it is indeed the case, thankfully the police federation have a very generous compensation plan in place which is between £12,990 and £28220 for a broken nose, as it is classed as a severe injury.
If theres a moderate case of PTSD from it, we can add another £10,000-£30,000 on top of that. Moderately severe it starts at 30k and goes up to 70k.
Admittedly, as a white, middle class bloke my interactions with the Police have been peaceful and non-confrontational, but it always amazes me on Police related threads the level of hate and distrust.
Some of you must have had some pretty shitty experiences to be that jaded.
(And yes, looks to me that the copper in this case has probably broken the law and should be punished)
I’ve broken my nose a few times. Wish I could’ve received that sort of pay out each time plus compensation. Id be mortgage free!
Im genuinely interested in seeing the overall outcome of this. The stampy man is definitely out of order and the footage further up this page seems to show a guy being pepper sprayed and taken down for little reason. All difficult to parse without full context of the overall situation. Stamping on someone’s head is a shit thing to do regardless and should be thoroughly investigated. For all we know there could be a badly injured cop, made that way by the guy who got kicked in the head. Their colleague was angry/distraught and did something terrible in the heat of the moment. Or the cop is just a thug and kicked a tasered man in the head. All guess work based on a bit of footage.
I honestly don't understand what has happened to the Daily Mail recently. As the Daily Telegraph appears to slip further into the gutter with every passing day the Daily Mail keeps surprising me with reasonable reporting which I don't expect from them. Have they had a change of editor?
Yesterday the Daily Mail appeared to castigate the Chief Constable of Manchester for releasing what they called a "tone deaf statement" on airport fracas because he claimed only 'some communities' were upset by the 'stamping' video.
And today they publish a perfectly reasonable report about today's Tommy Robinson led demonstration in London actually leading on the counter demonstration rather than on the "patriotic demo".
From the perspective of someone who was on the counter demonstration I thought their reporting was extremely fair. I particularly like how they describe us as "anti-racists" rather than a left-wing mob or Marxist thugs, and I also like how they describe Stephen Lennon supporters chants as islamophobic rather than as patriotic slogans.
It's all a bit strange!
For all we know there could be a badly injured cop, made that way by the guy who got kicked in the head. Their colleague was angry/distraught and did something terrible in the heat of the moment. Or the cop is just a thug and kicked a tasered man in the head.
Either way still potentially criminal acts.
Some of you just don't get it, when you're a uniformed, trained and empowered individual who is authorised to use force you have to meet higher standards.
Force must be proportionate and justifiable to the perceived threat and you should be trained and conditioned suitably to operate in that function and manage the risks that you will potentially face.
Some of you must have had some pretty shitty experiences to be that jaded.
Maybe, or some have concerns at the perceived lack of scrutiny and transparency. Or actually have an understanding of the responsibility that comes with legally carrying firearms and being empowered to use force in varying degrees.
I've had varying degrees of interactions professionally with the police in the UK, from scooping up errant troops who've been dickheads to conducting Op Temperer patrols and supporting their training and I have the utmost respect for the profession, however I'm more than happy to call it as I see as when they fall short, be that aggressive kicks to the to the head, of fat useless pricks who are out of breath getting out of a car.
They must be accountable at all times for their actions, and maybe some of these recent issues stem from a lack of appropriate resourcing and selection and training, but I hold the same opinion of my former profession and cringe every time some **** goes rogue and ends up taking a massive shit on the hard work and professionalism of the whole.
Errors in judgement happen, but you don't get to walk away from the consequences of that with a shrug of the shoulders, even more so when you are empowered to carry firearms.
I honestly don’t understand what has happened to the Daily Mail recently. As the Daily Telegraph appears to slip further into the gutter with every passing day the Daily Mail keeps surprising me with reasonable reporting which I don’t expect from them. Have they had a change of editor?
Yesterday the Daily Mail appeared to castigate the Chief Constable of Manchester for releasing what they called a “tone deaf statement” on airport fracas because he claimed only ‘some communities’ were upset by the ‘stamping’ video.
The Mail has always had spasms of good journalism here and there - best known example was its dogged pursuit of the Stephen Lawrence killers. But it's like seeing the occasional fish jumping out of a river of shit.
If it is indeed the case, thankfully the police federation have a very generous compensation plan in place which is between £12,990 and £28220 for a broken nose, as it is classed as a severe injury.
If theres a moderate case of PTSD from it, we can add another £10,000-£30,000 on top of that. Moderately severe it starts at 30k and goes up to 70k.
I know you hate the police and especially women but why make stuff up? She'll be lucky to get anything.
Turns out its not as told
First footage emerging of what led to the Manchester Airport Incident... pic.twitter.com/tuxzhd23LP
— Football Fights (@footbalIfights) July 27, 2024
Well that's pretty incriminating. Not sure about the 'not as told' claim though, what were we told?
Funny how different it all looks when an independent view is shown. I presume this is airport cctv.
Let’s hope those attacking the police get charged and convicted
That’s quite spicy..
They should definitely get charged for that. Doesn’t condone the following behaviour but it explains why Andy Burnham didn’t immediately come out and condemn the police (though did describe the footage as shocking from memory). Can only assume he saw this footage at the time.
More than happy to adjsut my view on seeing that, higher degree of ambiguity now and a very rapid escalation by Punchy McPuncher in the blue.
Taser has been deployed and used so looks like the cop had two choices to maintain control; physical force or a firearm.
Looks like he chose the less lethal option as uncomfortable a watch as it is.
Doesn't excuse the kick but sure as hell explains it. I think the kick happened a second or 2 after that clip ended, adrenaline must have been pumping and as I said scroaty mcscroat face wasnt actually restrained at that point, just incapacitated by the taser. He recovered use of his arms and legs 10 seconds after this if you watch the other footage so I'm guessing the kick / stamp was an inappropriate attempt to keep him down given the ferocity of the way he assaulted the officers.
Doesn’t excuse the kick but sure as hell explains it.
I now think it does-ish.
The situation wasn't contained and I'm sure that cop will argue that he felt if that individual got up there'd be a continuation of the assault. He used ad-hoc less than lethal as he'd deployed his taser.
I'm more than happy to do an about turn after seeing that footage, it's brutal and uncomfortable but I can think of a number of countries where the fella in blue would be perforated for that conduct on a cop.
Can now see why the family are calling for calm and not blood.
Makes the compo face tiktok seem even more ridiculous now.
I know you hate the police and especially women
Not sure where you're reading that from, I dont hate women, quite the contrary, especially nurses. Perhaps you are not astute as you like to think you are.
.
And I again disagree with you again, I respect the police, though I've had my run in with a few.
That said, I will say I have a deep disregard for authority, but only when it's being misused or abused.
But what interests me here is why do you want to make this thread about me and how I feel about anything.Perhaps you should just stick to the topic at hand.
"Yet some that be that take delight
To judge folks thought for envy and spite,
But whether they judge me wrong or right,
I am as I am and so do I write. "
Not sure where you’re reading that from, I dont hate women, quite the contrary, especially nurses. Perhaps you are not astute as you like to think you are.
Umm...
Really, I presume that is a joke? I'm not sexist, I love women as nurses. Not as cops obviously, they just wind everyone up.
Doesn’t excuse the kick but sure as hell explains it
Definitely
Not the two brothers in the face kicking head stamping incident, they were released without charge.
Somehow I don't think that's true is it? Maybe wait for the facts to surface in future before making statements that you can't verify.
I honestly don’t understand what has happened to the Daily Mail recently. As the Daily Telegraph appears to slip further into the gutter with every passing day the Daily Mail keeps surprising me with reasonable reporting which I don’t expect from them. Have they had a change of editor?
Tip top tip. Don’t read the comments section though.
Looks like the guy in grey chinned his mum
This shows a couple of seconds after the X video above. Sky blue guy grabs the male cop from behind and then seems to be tased by one of the other cops. He falls to the floor as the cop gets to his feet, then sky blue moves to get up or something and cop immediately kicks him, as relapsed_mandolorian says, as 'adhoc less than lethal'.
I thought this looked really bad for the cop, but the original video was cut to start just as sky blue hits the floor after attacking the officer, to make it look like he was kicked out of the blue, when the officer who kicked him was actually being held in a headlock by the same guy less than 3 seconds earlier. Now I think it's actually justified. Cop had just been attacked by multiple people and had to keep one of them on the ground by any means necessary.
Looks like the guy in grey chinned his mum
In fairness she lost the ticket.
That MEN video gives even more context, I'm now OK with what the officer did, he tasered the guy in blue from the floor I think, as soon as the officer got upright he kicked him to make sure he stayed down as the guy in blue was not restrained and clearly running on adrenaline at the very least given the brutality he displayed without provocation.
Tip top tip. Don’t read the comments section though.
On the contrary I like to. For a limited period of time - it gets too much after a while.
Unsurprisingly the comments can sometimes be rather critical, from a right-wing perspective, of the way the Daily Mail articles are written
The key thing for me is that this wasn't a case of officers turning up after an alleged assault on police and dishing out some extra judicial revenge. The stamp and kick were very much part of an officer who was still in the mindset of defending himself from multiple attackers. Sky blue wasn't lying 'complying' on the floor, he had been felled by a taser just seconds earlier after putting all three officers on the floor with punches. I think it's reasonable for the officer to have believed that if he got up he would have continued the attack.
Blue shorts and grey? are certainly handy enough. But the police went in hard to begin with. Certainly didnt seem to be any can you explain this sir, or can you come over here sir, policeman just grabbed him and tried to force him too the floor, and it all erupts from there.
But as before, the officer kicked him clearly out of frustration from losing the battle. Tasering should have ended it, and I think we've seen that happen often enough to know the standard is they back away and get the individual to comply, or they get another charge. not step forward and kick then stamp on his head.
Plus all officers know what happens when they use the taser on someone, and how stunned they are. So that was no check he's down and was more an angry kick cos he lost the fight and got a fair old thumping.
Anger+Adrenalin.
.
Im sure though others might interpretate that differently.
The Police must have had a reason for approaching that as they did. They were obviously then getting battered by a couple of very handy guys and reacted. Even in my youth many, many years ago when I was quite good at martial arts I would have thought of using it on the police. But we really dont know the back story to this
But as before, the officer kicked him clearly out of frustration from losing the battle.
I'm not sure about that. Lots of documentation of Tasering not working, or only working for a while, so the police officer really didnt want him getting up again.
Those guys chose to kick off, but we dont know why the Police chose to intervene initially so strongly.
Also I thought firearms officers weren't supposed to get involved in close stuff so there is something really odd about this. Lack of resourses?
But the police went in hard to begin with. Certainly didnt seem to be any can you explain this sir, or can you come over here sir, policeman just grabbed him and tried to force him too the floor, and it all erupts from there.
Are we not learning anything from making assumptions. Have you seen what happened directly before this or have any idea why the police ‘Went in hard’ again, why don’t we wait for the full story before making sweeping statements.
Lot of armchair critics here.
Best wait for the full story - we already know that what we do know is not the full story..,
mrlebowski
Free MemberBest wait for the full story – we already know that what we do know is not the full story...
There's no "full story" that makes it OK to kick the guy in the head, is the thing. Like has been said up the page, it can explain, it can't excuse.
Any word from their ‘lawyer’?
With my son being a noobie cop that's just really unpleasant to watch.
It’s never ok to kick someone in the head. It’s never ok to punch a woman in the face either, which Sky blue had done seconds earlier.
If I saw a female friend or colleague of mine punched in the face by a bloke I might well kick his head a few seconds later, to prevent him doing it again if nothing else.
There is no acceptable level of violence. If you kick off at someone don’t moan about the consequences.
But the police went in hard to begin with. Certainly didnt seem to be any can you explain this sir, or can you come over here sir, policeman just grabbed him and tried to force him too the floor, and it all erupts from there.
It's funny how people see things differently. And it shows how eyewitness accounts can be so contradictory
I see coppers approaching a guy paying for his airport parking at a machine, he is unaware that they are there until they grab him with presumably the intention of putting handcuffs on him, apparently they have been told that he is a violent suspect.
He initially doesn't seem to resist, possibly because he has been taken by surprise. Then the one in grey intervenes and it all kicks off.
I have no idea where you get the "can you explain this sir, or can you come over here sir". Why on earth do you think that is the way to arrest a potentially violent person?
I think most of the arrests I have witnessed have distinctly lacked the "excuse me but would Sir like to come this way please". Most of the arrestees are lucky to remain in an upright position
There’s no “full story” that makes it OK to kick the guy in the head
Would it have been okay to hit him in the head with a truncheon?
If so why?
Edit: Actually on reflection that's not really an appropriate question as the amount of force used is the issue imo. I think a light blow might be justified in certain circumstances where a full force definitely would not. Same probably goes to kicking someone in the face - a light kick to the face could do less damage than a punch. I guess that I was trying to gauge whether it was the fact that it was a boot rather than a truncheon that was the problem, although both could be, depending on circumstances, be unacceptable
I think he had a warrant for arrest on him? Wasn't that reported quite early?
If you kick off at someone don’t moan about the consequences.
Thats pretty much where I am with it, having seen the somewhat inevitable prequel to the kick in the head. It’s no different from your average provincial town centre on a Saturday night outside a kebab house at 3am. Same rules apply.
If go in, fists flailing, punching everyone in sight in the face, especially including women (what kind of bloke punches a woman full on in the face FFS?!) , then you immediately forfeit your right to complain about any subsequent shoeing you end up on the receiving end of.
Those lads didn’t exactly look like they were newbies to the kick off, did they?
It’s no different from your average provincial town centre on a Saturday night outside a kebab house at 3am. Same rules apply
Yep. Been on both sides of that particular coin.
Also, the Swiss police were pretty nasty when street fights got going.
Why on earth do you think that is the way to arrest a potentially violent person?
Everybody is a potentially violent person Ernie, but do we ask our law to arrest people, or to go hammer and tongs into someone before any facts have been established.
.
Why in heavens name would you think that is an acceptable way for a policeman to act Ernie ?, when at that point he is facing no threat.
Thats the kind of reasoning we read in the Daily Mail comments section.