Not seen that campaign poster for the National Front before.
It could almost be a current campaign poster for the Tories and DEFINITELY for Reform or whatever they are called.
Wow.
It could almost be a current campaign poster for the Tories and DEFINITELY for Reform or whatever they are called
And the Labour Party, if we are going to go down the road of pretending that the NF of the 1970s was a mainstream political party, and not a neo-nazi party which wanted to strip all non-whites of their British citizenship and deport them all.
To go through the poster:
Immigration - there is no fundamental difference in immigration levels between Labour and the Tory governments, often it has been higher under the Tories, they certainly haven't stopped it. Before the pandemic over half a million immigrants were entering the the UK per year, a figure which Labour would be proud of.
Common Market - The Tories took the UK into the EEC and the Tories then took the UK into the EU. Today the Labour Party's position is the same as the Tories's - remain outside the EU.
Restore capital punishment - the Labour Party's position is exactly the same as the Tories's - oppose its reintroduction.
Make Britian great again - Labour are no less committed to the UK than the Tories and no less patriotic.
Scrap overseas aid - Both Labour and Tories have similar policies, neither want to scrap it although the Labour want it at 0.7% of GDP and the Tories at 0.5%
Rebuild our armed forces: Labour are currently highly critical of Tory government cuts in defence spending and are demanding that the government re-arms the UK. Labour likes the ability to fight foreign wars. From two weeks ago:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/labour-calls-for-uk-rearmament-and-end-to-military-cuts/
"Shadow Defence Secretary John Healey has called for Britain to rearm, reinforce Ukraine, and put an end to military cuts."
So that poster is pretty much as applicable to the Labour Party as it is to the Tories.
Pretending that the NF, which was openly racist and indisputably neo-nazi, was no different to today's mainstream political parties helps no one, expect those who fancy a cheap shot for their own agenda.
Blimey. Rock Against Racism, ANL etc. I was there (how a 15 year old was able to get to punk gigs in Leeds poly, down the back stairs after meetings). Partly accounts for my lasting cynicism about the egos these things attract, see above.
The ANL stand in the middle of Leeds shopping precinct where NF tried to leaflet was more about show, the ones at Elland Rd were for the lads who really did want a scrap (absolutely on both sides). Not for me.
went to the Stockwell park carnival in the middle of my o levels, 1978. Sham 69, total shite. Elvis was good, as were misty, Jumpers/goalposts.
The extent to which this curbed the NF is moot. Thickiepedia gives a straight bat account:
In the 1979 general election, the NF contested more seats than any insurgent party since Labour in 1918.[77] It nevertheless performed badly,[78] securing only 1.3% of the total vote, down from 3.1% in the October 1974 general election.[79] This decline may have been due to increased anti-fascist campaigning over preceding years, or because of the Conservatives' increasingly restrictive stance on immigration under Margaret Thatcher attracted many votes that previously went to the Front.[80] NF membership had also declined.[81]
Although Tyndall and Webster had been longstanding comrades, in the late 1970s Tyndall began to blame his old friend for the party's problems.[82] Tyndall was upset with Webster's attempts to encourage far-right skinheads and football hooligans to join the NF,[83] as well as allegations that Webster had been making sexual advances toward the party's young men.[84] In October 1979 he urged the NF directorate to call for Webster's resignation, but was refused.[85] Tyndall resigned in January 1980, complaining of a "foul stench of perversion" in the party.[86] In June, he founded the New National Front (NNF),[87] which claimed that a third of the NF's membership defected to it.[86]
The campaigning was worthwhile, fun, and would do again. But is unlikely to have had much to do with the NF failing and falling apart. More likely Thatch.
Restore capital punishment – the Labour Party’s position is exactly the same as the Tories’s – oppose its reintroduction.
Again. Distraction. The point made was that a few Tory MPs, including some given jobs by the new PM, are vocally supportive of bringing back the death penalty. It is not party policy. No one said that it is, just wild speculation about whether the hang ‘em and flog sentiment will be used by a small subsection of Tory candidates to try and win them support, or if it could influence party policy come an election, perhaps with a promise of a referendum. The former is looking nailed on. The later highly unlikely… but with the current make up of Tory parliamentary party, not impossible. It would be another step in the UKIPization of the party. You’d think it would be a step too far… but it could be desperate times for whoever leads the Tories into the next election… who knows what they’ll try… turning people against immigrants and refugees might not be enough for them.
I just hope we get a hung parliament with Labour the largest party, as we may then get the electoral reform that's so desperately needed to keep the Tories out of power for good.
(Of course if SKS could commit to electoral reform, that would be even better!)
Of course if SKS could commit to electoral reform, that would be even better!
Well when Starmer was absolutely desperate to become Labour Party leader he was totally committed to electoral reform :
Keir Starmer’s backing of electoral reform puts democracy at the heart of Labour’s leadership contest
However having managed to secure the job this was his position a couple of years later:
"There are a lot of people in the Labour party who are pro-PR but it’s not a priority"
A hung parliament after the next general election seems highly unlikely, a huge Labour majority seems far more likely.
If the Labour majority is large enough it will make maintaining PLP discipline very hard for any leader imo and will massively increase the possibility of rebellions.
I suspect Starmer will struggle to keep a firm grip and I very much doubt that he will remain PM for long. There is nothing in Starmer's record as leader of the Opposition which suggests that he will be prime ministerial material. Sitting back and watching the Tories shoot themselves in the foot to gain public approval won't be an option when he is PM.
Making the upper house elected via PR is what is being proposed for the first term. Whether that ever gets extended to PR for the commons… who knows… will depend partly on how things go with the Lords replacement I suspect. More people in the Labour movement are getting behind the idea all the time, including some unions who have been dead against it in the recent past. It could well come in the next 10-15 years. It won’t be in this next general election manifesto.
10 weeks to locals
what would this look like at that level?
could sunak survive that?
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1627085530952536064
even wilder, an SNP collapse in scotland could boost Labour's numbers even higher !?!!?
I wonder what it'll look like this time next week, when the axis of bell-endery that is the ERG and the DUP rally behind Johnsons opportunistic flag as he screams betrayal about whatever slight element of sanity Sunak is about to try and bring to Northern Ireland?
All out war is about to break out in the Tory party once again. As if we're not all bored enough of their shabby, self-absorbed squabbling already. Bickering amongst themselves while everything goes to shit
could sunak survive that?
A collapse in the Tory vote in the May's local elections? Easily IMO.
Helpfully for Sunak everyone is expecting the Tories to do disastrously badly in May's local and devolved elections so it won't exactly be "hold the front page" news.
Plus of course the most important news story that weekend will be the King's coronation - the first coronation for 70 years.
Also helpfully for Sunak there has been 3 Tory Party leaders since the last general election three years ago which dramatically reduces the possibility that there will yet another Tory leader.
Plus there is absolutely no obvious replacement patiently waiting in the wings to step out and take the poison chalice of the inevitable general election meltdown.
Apart from Boris Johnson - I'll let you decide what the chances of the comeback kid getting a second crack.
All out war is about to break out in the Tory party once again
Quite funny that Sunak took a gamble on Braverman only to see her threaten to resign from cabinet over NI deal
Surely even the frothing loons of the ERG can't be daft enough to bring down sunak over this
They didn't even get a red wall boost from 30p lee
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1628077089122570241?t=9ip4b5drmmuVrOC98ZSmqA&s=19
Surely even the frothing loons of the ERG can’t be daft enough to bring down sunak over this
You think?
Just look at the critical mass of stupidity presently forming. The ERG, the DUP, all led by Boris Johnson with Liz Truss and Suella Braverman in the wings.
Can you see anything rational coming out of that lot?
They're hatstand enough to do whatever you think they couldn't possibly be stupid enough to do.
Surely if the ERG and the other mentalists in the party try to muck up this NI vote Sunak must surely have no choice but to go 'I give up, lets have an election'.
They need to back down on this one, or play a canny game with it as they won't get their bonfire of EU Laws otherwise which is really the endgame so they can either profit from that, or take us back to Victorian times, or whatever the cunning plan is.
How do Plaid Cymru have 1% of the vote in the Red Wall? Isn't it in the North East of England?
Wrexham and Vale of Clwyd are included.
Isn’t it in the North East of England?
No it's a mythical wall which includes the Midlands and bits of North Wales. It doesn't make a lot of sense in several ways including geographically.
Can Sunak sack dumbojo or any of the other idiots?
Sunak can’t do anything. He’s powerless. Impotent. He’s like Theresa May. A hostage to a party now full of absolute headbangers who simply cannot be reasoned with and will not entertain any compromise.
Brexit is a cult that has been increasingly Talibanised, and if you dare to even question the hardest of hard ruptures with the EU then you’re done. Burn the heretic!!!
Sunak isn’t an idiot. He knows that we need a better trading arrangement than the current ‘oven ready’ mess that Johnson and that other pompous windbag ‘Lord’ Frost signed off. Unfortunately the second he attempts to do that he’s finished. Boris will see to that, assisted by the usual gang of useful, shit-thick Brexiteer morons
The DUP are off the chart when it comes to stupidity. The flytipped sofa sold them down the river once already, promising them one thing then delivering the opposite, now they’re going to cheer him on when he does it again. Like all Brexiteers … gullible simpletons. Absolute halfwits
what I cant get my head aroud is the people that actually voting these nutters in.
they must know your local MP is a ERG loon yet enough of them still vote for them.
Probably a majority of votes are based on the colour of the rosette, rather than qualities of the candidate.
A hostage to a party now full of absolute headbangers who simply cannot be reasoned with and will not entertain any compromise.
Seems no different to the grief Kier Starmer is getting on Twitter about Jeremy Corbyn. All parties are full of nutters with their own agendas.
Speaking of Magic Grandad... how many minutes into PMQ's do you think Rishi will get before he mentions him?
It looks like any deal over the NI Protocol is already dead in the water, courtesy of the ERG/DUP fruit loops. This just proves how weak Sunak is and how - as if we didn't know it already - that its these unhinged loons who are still calling the tune
He could get it through a vote with support from the labour party he's already been assured of, but he won't, because he knows the ERG will go into meltdown and god only knows what the DUP would get up to
All Sunak did was shout Brexit slogans
Its pretty obvious that he knows he can't get anything past his own parties headbangers, so he's just resorting to tickling the bellies of the loons and telling them what they want to hear
Those mindless 3 word slogans couldn't have contrasted more with Starmer offering cross-party support to make progress. Only one person sounded like a grown-up who is taking these issues seriously.
Good that Starmer used David Camerons description of the ERG/DUP.... 'those who won't take yes for an answer', and also got Sunak to commit on the record to there being a vote on any deal, so he can't try and bypass parliament.
It he didn’t, he said “Parliament will be able to have its say” So debate not vote.
If that happens it will provide a significant boost to Sunak, irrespective of how much he will have been responsible for it.
It's a possibility Ernie, and it's a guess here but inflation is ticking back up in the USA.
This is because when you raise interest rates more money swills around the higher end which actually drives inflation. Whether the damping affect of lower energy prices makes enough of a difference no idea.
But it's looking like a small uptick in inflation medium term for the USA and they weren't expecting that because they're idiots at the Fed; or clever - depending whether you're doing well out of asset expansion.
UK is not identical to the USA but we've followed them in lots of ways.
Economy is split in two as ever: bottom end is close to breaking point - asset kings are thriving.
So this is why there's a tug between recession or not recession. Macro picture is all over the shop.
Also we knew inflation was going to be transitory but the BoE added their own dynamic to the problem and driving inflation themselves.
With all this latest Sunak stuff it will change the landscape for politics though.
Interested to see the polls react and how Sir Starmer responds.
I mean everyone thinks the Tories are finished. I'm still erring on a poll bounce for them. But who knows.
So much can change in no time at all.
I mean everyone thinks the Tories are finished. I’m still erring on a poll bounce for them. But who knows.
I'd expect a poll bounce, but not sustained if cost of living doesnt improve rapidly
what it does do is cement sunaks position in the Tory party, Johnson looking very much like yesterday's man
I agree with Rone above - but Starmer has boxed himself in with some really stupid "missions" e.g.
Mission: Decarbonise electricity supply by 2030 and cut bills
What does this mean in practice?
- Huge (hundreds of £Bs) investment and deployment of long term (weeks not days capacity) grid level electricity storage infrastructure using technologies that are still being piloted / are not ready for scale deployment.
- The need to develop and commercialise the tech and create a viable market for it i.e. balance of supply and demand to ensure competition
- (lots - thousands) of planning applications all of which could take up to 2 years if they go to planning inspectorate appeals
- thousands of sub projects to be designed, procured and delivered in 60 months or less.
- tens of thousands of jobs to be created and trained in the tech that doesn't exist yet.
Chances of this happening - zero.
The tech doesn't exist - in its current form it's v expensive and will require £00's of Billions against a pledge that consumers will pay less. So who is paying?
The poll bounce that Rone suggests will happen largely because the public will see through the missions for what they are - vague aspirations with no substance behind them.
The tech exists. Just get on with it. We should be doing it already. Yes, it'll take big investment... but we're currently giving companies huge tax breaks for investing big in future fossil fuels... time to change direction fast. Britain can afford it... but it can't do so on the back of consumers. Time to accept that decarbonisation is a national goal, not something that can be done purely through the bills consumers pay.
I smell further government energy intervention. Not suprisingly.
If they want to do something they always can. No windfall tax needed to make it happen.
The latest opinion poll in the Daily Telegraph suggests if the results were replicated in a general election Labour would have a 348 seat majority.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/04/no-brexit-deal-bounce-rishi-sunak-poll-shows/
"a massive Labour landslide of 499 seats, while the Tories would be cut down from the 365 seats they won in 2019 to just 69".
That's pretty devestating..how many seats are there in total? 6 hundred and something?
650.
Things aren't going to get any better for people. Governments always change when the economy is bad. That's what did for the last Labour govt - the financial crisis - and things are much worse now I think. And in 18 months time it'll be worse still.
I thought you didn't believe those kind of numbers ernie!
I'm not sure I do tbh, local elections will be interesting, even they don't really show us how the public will vote in a GE, seems to me though that any bounce from an NI deal wiped out by Johnson & we are all going to be plunged back in to months of rehashing the lockdown/covid/partygate debates thanks to the covid inquiry and Johnsons determination to save his skin. The telegraph /spectator seems to be going in heavily on the covid conspiracy side.
But we STILL have inflation and a stagnating economy that's hurting millions right now. that should be the real priority
Yes, it’ll take big investment… but we’re currently giving companies huge tax breaks for investing big in future fossil fuels
We're seriously starting to fall behind on batteries, EVs, hydrogen tech, high speed rail...
Inflation will likely to no longer be an issue. As the link up there ^^ suggests.
But personally I don't think that there is anything that can happen now which will do anything to turn the Tories's fortunes round so that they don't suffer a devastating defeat next general election.
Liz Truss turned the Tories into a very toxic brand, Rishi Sunak's premiership has done nothing to significantly change that, not even in his honeymoon period.
A lot of people have made their minds up that they want change and won't be voting Tory next general election, even if they did last election.
No doubt as general election day approaches the Tories will claw some of their traditional support back, but the gulf is now so huge that I can't see them anywhere close to what would be needed.
Furthermore they need to be clawing some of that support back right now, not just a month or two before election day. The Telegraph link shows that really isn't happening.
IMHO
I thought you didn’t believe those kind of numbers ernie!
Why? No one bangs on about the huge lead that Labour have than me. I am constantly providing links to opinion polls and repeatedly said that IMO the Tories have zero chance of winning the next general election.
I think you might be confusing me with someone else 💡
Edit: I do believe that most pollsters probably exaggerate the Labour lead though.
Opinium and Deltapoll consistently give Labour about a 15% lead as they both factor in the fact that some traditional Tory voters who currently won't say how they will vote will probably vote Tory on the day.
That sounds very plausible to me. And IMO the general election result is more likely to be somewhere in the region of Labour 45% and Tories 30%.
That would still represent a devastating defeat for the Tories + they have never polled less than 30% in a general election in the last 200 years.
I don’t think the seat calculators work when the predicted swing is as large as it currently is.
I can imagine The Sun's headline the day after the election.
"WE'RE (SU)NAKERED!"
Together with a pic of Sunak pulling an odd face or something.
I expect the Sun to back Starmer!
The Sun always likes to back a winner, the next general election result is all but certain.
And Murdoch will expect to receive some credit for that!
Liz Truss turned the Tories into a very toxic brand
To be fair to Truss, she was just a mold encrusted fungal infection of icing on the rotten cake... a product of her environment after Johnson, May and cameron.
Truss may be devestatingly incompetent, but the blame does not lay entirely with her.
The conservative govenmerment as a whole has full responsibility.
Truss may be devestatingly incompetent, but the blame does not lay entirely with her.
Absolutely true.
Truss simply accelerated the more fanatical parts of the Tory brand.
The Tory brand on the whole has been devastatingly robust. Don't forget she came towards the end of many terrible Conservative political decisions.
Generally, Tories are all bad for society because of their terminal logic. Riding on the success of the state for years only to dismantle it is a recipe for disaster.
There's a big picture here.
Saw an excellent comment from someone setting out his political/societal views in the 1960s, which aligned with the MacMillan governments policies.
He said he hasn't changed his views, but is now regarded as far left.
I'm sure his argument can be picked apart, but I thought it identified the move to the right quite well. I was brought up Tory, but my current position is as much a result of them moving to the right as me moving to the left.
Truss may be devestatingly incompetent, but the blame does not lay entirely with her.
The conservative govenmerment as a whole has full responsibility.
There is still a large rump of the party that is so fanatical about it’s ‘free market’ libertarian righteousness, despite all evidence to the contrary, that they would happily repeat what Truss did
In their paranoid, tinfoil-helmeted worldview, the idea was right but she was foiled by *insert name of chosen villain here*
The ‘lefty’ economic establishment? The media? The liberal elite? Take your pick
But, as with the disaster of Brexit, nothing is ever their fault. It’s everybody else sabotaging their grand vision
