Bit concerned about a close family member who's in a long-distance relationship with someone in the USA. They spend hours talking each day on WhatsApp (video and voice), but have just asked me for help liquidating some land. I've never met the person, but they have an Instagram account with many thousands of followers and post videos which are clearly AI.
It seems that everyone is assuming that the family member wants the money for the person in the USA, but do you actually know that? Could they want the money for something else???
The timings a bit suspicious 🙂
I’d have alarm bells ringing if my mum/dad being in a relationship with a random they never actually met especially if it with an instagramer with thousands of followers who’ve suddenly found them to be so interesting they are spending hours talking to.
IMHO Old peeps can be right sneaky in their dealings.
The OP would be likely to be finding out that relative/parent had been fiddled out of thousands of pounds in the future if he had not intervened.
This whole thing has gone down like a turd in a wedding punch bowl.
I tried again with the bank and they refused point blank to do anything, but what they did do was call my mum to tell her that I'd attempted to place a fraud marker on the account.
So she now sees it as a gross betrayal of trust and called me just long enough to tell me never to speak to her again. FFS.
an entirely predictable outcome. What’s more unless you can prove she is actually unfit to make important decisions she will be entirely free to revoke any power of attorney she may have granted to you.
What did you expect to happen? How would you react if one of your children (or other close relative) called your bank and tried to stop you doing what you want? And how would you expect your bank to react if they did?
Well having read through this lot I think I'll tear up the Financial LPA I have here and drop it in the bin as it was clearly a pointless ecercise with the only beneficiary being the solicitor who earned a fee for drafting it.
Disagreements with family members are known to be lived more intensely and with far less scope for negotiation than non family. Brexit demonstrated this in some families. There was an article in the Guardian about it not long back which mirrored my own experience. I've left my parents to get on with making their own sometimes curious financial decisions (they've generally asked for my approval for what they've just done rather than asking for advice before they do it) and will continue to do so while I'm happy there's enough understanding of what they're doing. Their money their choices. This thread tells me that even if that's no longer the case there's **** all I can do, the bank will do nothing and the financial LPA is pointless. But I'd try, even if it was the last conversation to be had. Someone said try the police, why not, they might be able to advise.
I wish you luck, Flaperon, you've done what what you felt obliged to try to protect your mother. The conflict you saw coming came.
Poly, as you have so clearly demonstrated that the banks do nothing to protect vulnerable people and LPAs don't allow Flaperon any powers could you give me some good reasons not to pull out of this financial LPA in my hands and if one day there's no money left just phone social services and say "this is not my problem, you deal with it"?
Poly, as you have so clearly demonstrated that the banks do nothing to protect vulnerable people and LPAs don't allow Flaperon any powers
Well he tried to get fraud markers put on bank accounts, so if she does get ripped off at least the bank won't be in a position to refuse compensation if it comes to it.
...you give me some good reasons not to pull out of this financial LPA in my hands...
It gives everyone choices.
You might never need to use it. You might never choose to use it.
You might be happy to leave the donor(s) to the local authority who then place them miles away from family and friends, which increase anxiety and confusion for all.
You can be not competent, but understand that things aren't right and not what you want
I've shared a link to an Economist article with the OP that gives a bit of context about the 'yahoo boys' behind such scams. Whoever his mum is talking to is almost certainly not in the US, and the numbers are such that anyone might be targeted. Loneliness is endemic, and that's no reflection on family members.
From experience, LPA for Health and Financial affairs is genuinely useful when capacity has been lost, and worth having in place. In situations like this though, as has been said many times above, you can't stop adults making bad decisions.
Well having read through this lot I think I'll tear up the Financial LPA I have here and drop it in the bin as it was clearly a pointless ecercise with the only beneficiary being the solicitor who earned a fee for drafting it.
well yes if you can read the thread (and perhaps do some googling) and still have no idea what an LPA is for and what it does then I'd certainly advise you to get rid as you're apparently not sufficiently competent to use one.
OTOH for those of us who have had (probably elderly) relatives either asking for or else needing assistance in financial matters they are very useful and important documents.
well it’s not pointless - a financial POA will allow the Attorney to act when the person struggles to do it themselves (or even just finds it a bit tricky). One of those actions MIGHT be to ask the bank to stop taking ANY instructions from the actual account holder, but banks are understandably hesitant to do so, especially if the first contact they’ve had requests it. It’s not even clear if Barclays have seen the POA, nor if it is only in force when conditions are met or if any such condition has been met. If children could easily invoke POA and stop adult parents spending their own money how they wish at any point people would be even more reticent about signing them - because let’s face it there are plenty of stupid decisions made by children for all sorts of reasons - even well intentioned ones.This thread tells me that even if that's no longer the case there's **** all I can do, the bank will do nothing and the financial LPA is pointless.
I don’t think that’s true. No money has yet left the Barclays account. I have a Barclays account and I assure you moving an unusual (for you) amount of money in an unusual manner will trigger questions and checks. As will someone calling purporting to be your child with POA and asking for your account to be restricted - Flaperon has shown that. The question is how do Banks identify “vulnerable” customers and does the person in the OP meet the criteria?Poly, as you have so clearly demonstrated that the banks do nothing to protect vulnerable people
I have no idea what your LPA says nor what Flaperon’s says. You used a solicitor to draft it - that’s a clue that they aren’t all from one common template/form - getting irate about a legal document you haven’t even seen seems a bit over the top.and LPAs don't allow Flaperon any powers could you give me some good reasons not to pull out of this financial LPA in my hands and if one day there's no money left just phone social services and say "this is not my problem, you deal with it"?
If you can’t see any benefits from a typical financial POA other than fraud prevention then I’m not sure you’ve understood what they are routinely used for. If you can’t get the Bank to stop taking instructions from the account holder, typically a POA can cancel cards, logins, and change addresses - but that would be an extreme thing to do (even if your POA granted the powers from day 1) if someone is happily living their day to day life, and you suddenly gain a lot of extra hassle/admin/responsibility/legal duties etc.
I’m not sure if YOU have granted POA to anyone else? How would YOU feel if they went to your bank tomorrow to say “please block any transactions with Bike shops, he is just getting scammed”.
This is a grim read and a really difficult situation indeed.
@Flaperon, had the land deal gone through yet or is everything still teetering on the edge?
Can you somehow chat with the scammer via your mum's account, cpy the number and do this yourself or better with the nuclear option of blocking or deleting the number on WhatsApp or reporting it as a scam? Find a way of removing this contact from your mum's life?
“please block any transactions with Bike shops, he is just getting scammed”.
Unlikely, I pay for most of his bike bits.
Not that anyone is going to have a LPA for me, I'm French and there's vertical solidarity so family members have legal resposibilities towards each other. Children have a legal obligation to assist their parents in old age, poor junior. 😉
Anyhow, Poly, thanks for responding positively (as I hoped) to my post which gives Flaperon a better idea of what powers a LPA give him than your previous posts that suggested none worth having.
Not that anyone is going to have a LPA for me, I'm French and there's vertical solidarity so family members have legal resposibilities towards each other. Children have a legal obligation to assist their parents in old age, poor junior.
The two things are entirely unrelated and power of attorney exists in France, independently from the obligations of children and parents to each other. If you think the legal obligations of children towards their parents obviates the need for a power of attorney then it seems you still have little idea what the latter does and what it's for.
(I checked this out with 30 seconds of googling)
