[Closed] Not having kids at all... tell me about it.

This might seem like a shallow life to some people

Ignore those people, it's not shallow at all. Alpin is at least thinking about it rather than settling for the default position.

it's flipping great skiing for 10 days in winter, MTBing abroad for 2 weeks in summer .. couldn't do that with kids!!

Why not? We fully intend to. Our mate comes skiing with us every year, usually for two weeks, and he brings his two young kids.

We're off to Fernie in a few weeks. His kids will be there. My pregnant missus will be too. Once junior arrives we'll probably just skip a year then be back again.

hmmmmm....picturing Hora letting of a real bronx cheer as girls swoon to the the guff.

You are quite a man. And I salute you.

Smell_it but people think it's wrong that you don't want to! Mr MC and I always get asked when we're getting hitched (as we've been together 7 years considerably longer than our married mates). I still think a lot of people I know will divorce whilst me and MR MC are still together and happy but not married!!

I'm not sure they think it's "wrong" to remain unmarried, just that for many there was a time (i.e. when they were young) when there was much more of a societal expectation that one would marry. It's also the same with children. They are not trying to be offensive, and most would likely be mortified that you feel as you do.

Mrs North and I have been together for over 13 years. We don't feel strongly that we should get married and are trying for children, a decision made jointly and after much discussion. Sometimes I refer to her as my wife, but that's just for convenience, because it's one syllable as opposed to two (partner) or three (fiancée).

I suspect some might raise eyebrows privately if we have a child before being married, but so what. It really doesn't stress me.

Let it sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide 😀

I can understand not being fussed about being married. I wasn't. We were together for about 12 years before we got wed.

But I'm not sure why you would remain so if you're planning kids? Surely a child is a far bigger commitment than marriage anyway?

Also bear in mind that if/when the tories get into power they plan tax breaks to married couples with kids! 🙂

You'll have no trouble Graham. 40 to 50 days of skiing and lots of MTBing though I'm not sure where this abroad place starts. Baby seat on bike, baby jogger, pulka or back back on skis. There are solutions to all the problems the nay sayers can come up with (if you have enough time and money).

hmm

She does not want/like children at all. Part of me does, part of me doesn't. I'm convinced we'd be shocking parents so best not for the unborn child's sake!

[url= http://membres.multimania.fr/claudeherve/index.html ]Inspiration[/url]

TandemJeremy - Member
Oh how it amuses me.
Clubber - you cannot say that my expereience is not what it is.
In my experie3ence most ( but not all)people become incredibly selfish once they become parents.
That is my experience your may differ.

substitute 'most parents I have met' for 'most young people/most immigrants/most black people' and you'd be screaming blue murder and calling the poster a Daily Mail reading Nazi even though they could make exactly the same justification. . A blinkered view doesn't make you right. You evidently expect this sort of behaviour from parents So it's easy to reinforce the negative stereotype while ignoring anything to the contrary.

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype? You didn't answer that question.

My wife and I were p**sing away our lives drinking all the time, going out, getting fat on Takeaways and spending every weekend sleeping until 4 in the afternoon if we were not at work so our decision was a little different to yours.

We decided to turn our lives around and had a child soon afterward. We couldnt afford to run 2 cars now, so I decided to commute to work on my bike. (the first time in 10 years)

Now, 2 years on I am fitter and thinner than I have been for years (although Xmas has a lot to answer for) and the happiest I have ever been. Nothing could have prepared me for the utter joy and daily astonishment you feel when seeing that child develop...

however I wonder what our decision would have been if our lives were different before then (ie if we were fit and actually [i]did[/i] stuff.
The brutal truth is that I never get out on my bike nearly enough as I would like; its just not possible. I work 6 days a week regularly, sometimes 7 so the time that I have left is time spent with my Wife and Son - time you can NEVER get back if you squander it. My bike time is usually done after dark or at odd times around shifs; very very rarely at weekends .

Your life will change forever, its true, but you will never resent your child for it. Without a shadow of a doubt this has been the hardest, funniest, scariest, most enjoyable, most tiring, most rewarding mental 2 years of my life.

I discovered mountail biking BECAUSE I had a child!

good luck in your decision

No I would not. You fail to understand the difference between "all I have met" and "All of them"

To say "In my experience all / all I have met parents turn into selfish people" is simply my experience - it is not stereotyping. "To say all parents turn into selfish people" is sterotyping. The first is what I personally have experienced and thus is true, the second is generalising. Its a subtle but important difference and I have defended people on here from accusations of racism when they used the first construction. Your experience is what it is. To generalise from this is usually wrong.

It is not racist to say " every black man I have met is thick" It is racist to say " every black man is thick"

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype?

surely it's hereditary ??

clubber - Premier Member

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype? You didn't answer that question.

I wouldn't know - how on earth could I. They are very sociable and generous people and were not precious and overprotective towards me but how selfish they were in their relationships outside the family I would not know.

I am the easygoing and least confrontational of my family however

Munge-chick - I find most folk think it's odd that I don't want marriage and kids. there are a few that think it's wrong, but they tend to be the folk that have forgot that choice is about weighing up pro's and cons, and then deciding on the option with the most acceptable compromises and benefits. I think once they have lost perspective on their own choices/ situation being 'right' is the only way to accept it. As I say I think most folk aren't that bothered and just think I'm a bit odd 😀

When you tell people you like cycling, if they don't ride a bike they simply can't understand it. It's bloody hard work, you get covered in mud/run down by cars, and can be cold and wet and miserable. Yet most people on this website would say it has added something valuable to their lives, I think. But if you hadn't really ridden bikes, you may find that hard to believe.

pretty obvious where I'm going here so I CBA to type it out...

Your response TJ depends very
much on how unbiased and objective your view is. If you say all black people are thick because you expected them to be and picked up on stupid behaviour (we are all stupid somtimes) rather than because they actually have consistently been then, that's racist and down to you own negative expectation.

It's not a blinking shame at all it's flipping great skiing for 10 days in winter, MTBing abroad for 2 weeks in summer .. couldn't do that with kids!!

Let me see now
Last year apart from being out most Saturdays ....
Easter - Glentress for 5 days
May - long weekend Afan
June - 2 weeks in Colorado
August - long weekend Spain
October - long weekend Afan

Yup - it's impossible 🙂

When you tell people you like cycling, if they don't ride a bike they simply can't understand it. It's bloody hard work, you get covered in mud/run down by cars, and can be cold and wet and miserable. Yet most people on this website would say it has added something valuable to their lives, I think. But if you hadn't really ridden bikes, you may find that hard to believe.

pretty obvious where I'm going here so I CBA to type it out...

I have a mate that calls what we do "boring" even though he has never actually done it. (he likes to bivvvy up next to a lake for 12hrs waiting for a carp to ring an alarm)

Let me see now
Last year apart from being out most Saturdays ....
Easter - Glentress for 5 days
May - long weekend Afan
June - 2 weeks in Colorado
August - long weekend Spain
October - long weekend Afan

Yup - it's impossible

sorry but for me that would be totally impossible. I work all week leaving my wife to look after my son. If I then spent the time I had left in the saddle, she is still left holding the baby and I miss out on all the good stuff. If it was the other was round there would be no way I would put up with that..

unless you are bringing your baby with you that is a lot of precious time your are missing out on there

I suggest members spend more than a couple of days as an independant traveller in North Africa before shouting to loud that they are not racist.

Clubber - read what I posted please. I do not suggest what you claim I do.

i'm with Driller 😀
same situation here.
no pangs and no regrets.
life is GOOD 😀

unless you are suggesting a baby can accompany you going down the black runs?)

absolutely not

We manage it so that we can both have plenty of time away from the home doing our thing while the other one looks after the kids & we sometimes go places where we share the time off
None of them are babies any more but we occasionally foster very young ones

TandemJeremy - Member
I am the easygoing and least confrontational of my family however

Ok to summarise TJ doesnt like parents attitudes, well only those HE HAS MET, but he's not generalising or stereotyping. No like hell you are.

Well in my experience of tandem riders is they are arrogant, self obsessed arguementative trolls.
[i]
(my only experience of tandem riders is TJ, so based on my experience the above statement stands)[/i]

Im talking more of having little ones. Im sure it is different later on

an example is of someone I was aquainted with. During the week He left the house at 7.00Am and didnt usually get back until 8.00pm meaning his son was a stranger during the week. This is not unusual; we all have to work. Like you, he played football "Most Saturdays" and did the odd tour etc meaning he only got to see his child grow up for 1 day in 7 during the first few years. His wife had no time for herself apart from on the Odd Sunday and got pretty depressed about it.

Of course, with the older ones you can do stuff with them. I agree you need your own time but the balance is different for everyone

Ohh, here we go. If that is your view then you should ask for assisted suicide and stop being a drain on the earth's dwindling resources

- after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?

Christmas? I have ignored it for decades. I have often volunteered to work so that my colleagues with children can have the time free.

Really I am not bitter - but resentful perhaps. Remember family friendly means its unfriendly for the childless.

Troll I will admit to.

Just thought I’d stick my 2p worth in – In the 18 years since my beloved wife first became pregnant, I’ve completed my nurse training; undertaking two counselling course; masters degree and an several other courses at masters level. I restarted canoeing and spent 5 years racing & training at the top national level, taken up mountain biking all whilst working full time and climbing the career ladder.
I have been a fully involved father to two amazing daughters, through them I have experienced the extremes of emotion and been challenged physically and emotionally
My wife I did consciously plan our family and was something we both wanted. I would hope that I have not inflicted them on others, but they do become all consuming and rightly so
My best mate and his partner have taken the opposite course, and yes at when I see their lifestyle times the grass appears green, but been objective they are very middle aged in there out look and can be incredibly self centred.
Having children in a choice, but culturally an expectation, and for some it works and for other it doesn’t

I've never really got the whole "not having kids is selfish" thing. Selfish to who exactly? Surely you can only be selfish if you put yourself before others, not if you put yourself before theoretical people that don't exist yet?

In all seriousness the only moral qualms I have about not having kids is that I suspect that my parents would quite like to have grandchildren, although I don't think they mind not doing.
However I have two brothers, one of which is already married and seems bought into the whole settling-down thing so I think he's more likely to than me anyway 😉

TJ, i tend to avoid family friendly if possible, but bear in mind there are plenty of places I cant go, should i have my son with me.

And the one that made me cry - whilst talking to our 3 year old I asked her what her favourite colour was, her answer "The colour of your eyes Daddy". Bless.

this thread has made great reading, all sorts of comments and thoughts here. So I gotta add something! I'm 43, never wanted kids until I met the wife (spent my life partying!) and even then was unsure (like SFB if I remember rightly)
Now have 2 kids, aged 1 & 2 years and one of each. Don't want more. But they are the best thing ever, and, you will only truly understand the joy (and yes stress, lack of sleep and frustration) they bring once you have them. I am now healthier than I ever was (less partying more biking) I'm not saying have / don't have kids, it's all down to choice but maybe don't be so keen to say "I'm not having any" until you are too old to anyway

Plus only reason anything living thing exists is to reproduce to ensure its contuinued existence anyway.

Im not so pious to suggest everyone would benefit in becoming a parent, (there are people out the who should NEVER be allowed to reproduce, but thats for another thread.), but at least we as parents can say with conviction whether we like it or not!
Its not for everyone i admit, my parenting days didnt start until i was 34, so i'd had time to do the selfish things (and rather enjoyed it thank you), but felt my existence lacked, erm i dunno, focus i guess.

bonj - Member

Plus only reason anything living thing exists is to reproduce to ensure its contuinued existence anyway.

don't get this at all. Says who?

aah ... someone has mentioned my pet hate! Why is it that as a woman whenever anyone brings a baby into the office I'm supposed to join everyone else cooing and clucking over it! Why does everyone do that? (or expect everyone to be interested in their new baby photo that they e-mail round!)

I'm not interested, I think baby's are really quite unattractive, and I'm find it rather annoying that there is a very definate expectation that I'm supposed to coo! I happen to really like dogs, but I don't expect everyone to coo over photo's of a new puppy, and I certain;y wouldn't e-mail said pic's round the entire office (even though puppy's are way cuter than babies!)

There is a culture of 'children are wonderful' that you are expected to comply with, and it's often frowned upon to say 'actually I don't have children becuase I really don't like them'.

bonj - Member

Plus only reason anything living thing exists is to reproduce to ensure its contuinued existence anyway.

don't get this at all. Says who?

In so much as there is any purpose in our existence then furthering the species and breeding to fill our food supply is about it.

Says Richard Dawkins.

Google 'the selfish gene'

Puppies [i]are[/i] cuter than babies

and a kitten playing with wool beats the puppy.

where does a penguin falling into a lake come?
what about [i]Meercats[/i]

for the record I always hated the kids on "Youve ben framed" until I had one...

but the Dog clip always wins

oh and I always coo over puppy pictures but if the baby picture isnt of mine, I kind of pretend to be interested

There is a culture of 'children are wonderful' that you are expected to comply with, and it's often frowned upon to say 'actually I don't have children becuase I really don't like them'.

isn't it really (some) people are wonderful, and children are a kind of people ? Perhaps children are more unpredicatable and unruly - thank heavens, so not liking them to me at least implies a craving for predictability and dullness

I don't expect everyone to coo over photo's of a new puppy

Up your expectations a bit.

I am female,39 and have no children. I wanted them when I was younger but it just hasn't happened. Not a decision I made, circumstances decided for me. Wasted my twenties with a loser and spent the majority of my thirties single. Decided that as I was over thirty I was too old to give birth and announced I didn't want any. Cue disbelief and astonishment from friends and work mates. Especially those with little ones. Circumstances have changed again and I find myself with a lovely fella who would love to be a dad but thinks it's too late! 🙄

Erm, biology?

Other sciences are available....

Read the sentence again, think about how it applies to this discussion. The inference is that the only useful thing you can do is breed. That may be true for you, but it isn't for me 🙂

Im not having kids.I hated being a child, pretty much every day and made up my mind that it would be selfish to inflict that on another generation. This has probably had an effect on my relationship status (ie non existant). Some of its down to money, lifestyle, job security , difficult parents, but its not just me, my brother is the same, although he has had girlfriends. My sister had twins and they drove her mad for the first year and she ended up in therapy. Its better now they are 8 year olds as at least you can hold a conversation with them.
I dont see the problem with not having children.
You get to do what you want , when you want, and not have to worry about school choices , stroppy teenage angst, drugs, sex , violence, knife crime , alcohol abuse, whos bullying who in the playground, what colour trainers are in this month etc taking kids away on holiday and they wont want to go, like little miss sunshine.

I had a [i]fantastic[/i] childhood, which consisted largely of running around in the hills and woods, Wordsworth stylee, with my dog. I'd want to be able to guarantee something similar for any children of my own... but I live a pretty frugal life, and I'm bludy self-indulgent with my own time & interests. I'm not saying that precludes either a stable relationship or a decent environment inwhich to bring up kids (as others have demonstrated), but I'm - very - wary of imposing my own choices on others.

Mind you, I'm also pretty ugly. 8)