MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Would anyone be remotely surprised?
Frankly, I would be more surprised if senior people in the government were not benefiting from insider dealing. There is literally no other reason why they would pass a budget like this.
I shouted a the TV over the weekend when Kwarteng said in interview that the Government 'are only 2 weeks in". They are 12 years in.
It is like some bizarre dare to see just how far they can mess things up.
I guess the markets will decide whether she breaks through that and starts tunnelling.
Sterling hasn't yet bounced up to even the crazy low level it closed at last week. Worrying.
Just keep reelecting leaders a few more round will keep them away from questions and leave noone actually governing.
This is why she was always going to be worse than Boris - she actually does work.
Love this guy's work - I don't how much of this is wotkable, but sweet baby jesus, I wish someone could put grown-ups in charge who would try it.
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1574368090594299905?s=20&t=neruJ5qW5HcjlWHfSIyLpA
They couldn't have another leadership battle, replace Liz Truss and then not call a general election, could they?
There's no chance they'll throw away another 2 years of power to er let the people decide.
Depends who it is. There is one person who might go for a “return of the King, last change to save democracy from the reds and the French” narrative, and try and bounce through a quick election.
Trouble is Maybo' did that and look how it went.
Of course they could more cash. Whats to stop them?
I don’t how much of this is wotkable, but sweet baby jesus, I wish someone could put grown-ups in charge who would try it.
Yes, we should be discussing and working on those things, but they don't, they just **** about trying to hold onto power and doing god knows what. I have no idea what they think their job should even be.
I can't keep up with the activity on this thread but I don't think anything about this has been posted:
The Guardian: Home Office to reopen immigration detention centres with £399m deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/26/home-office-to-reopen-immigration-detention-centres-with-399m-deal
The home secretary, Suella Braverman, has indicated she will take an even harder line on immigration than her predecessor, Priti Patel, and plans to increase the use of detention....
....Shaw said the Home Office’s new plans to reverse the decreasing use of immigration detention, which costs about £99 a night for each person, was “disappointing”.
So the use of immigration detention centres was decreasing but that will now be reversed. And Braverman will take a harder line on those seeking asylum than Priti Patel.
The thought of the Tories replacing Johnson always filled me with dread as his mostly likely replacement was always certain to be more right-wing than him, and because frankly partygate didn't fill me with incandescent rage. But FFS how bad can it get?
As their economic policies tank they'll have to fall farther back onto their culture war stuff like attacks on immigrants.
(Kwartang once again demonstrates his superior intellect by announcing a costed plan..... IN 2 MOMTHS TIME!, once again sending the £ tumbling)
Console yourself that Truss & co are so incompetent & already beset by scandal that it'll be just as effective as their Rwanda plan
franksinatra
Full MemberI shouted a the TV over the weekend when Kwarteng said in interview that the Government ‘are only 2 weeks in”. They are 12 years in.
Of all of it, this is the thing that upsets me most, proper mix of rage and despair. On the one hand, their only mandate comes from being a continuation of the existing government. And on the other, they can openly say that they're a completely different thing. Not just having totally different policies, but literally telling people "we are a new government". It's so absolutely false, and shameless, and it'll bloody work for a load of people- and not even just tories.
You were voted in by .15% of the population. If you are a new government, then you've stolen the country. Which OF COURSE YOU HAVE, I know that but you can't ****ing say it.
Like a Nolan film, read your post backwards, it makes perfect sense.
I have no idea what they think their job should even be.
just **** about trying to hold onto power and doing god knows what.
the tooting mp has odeyed
Where is Truss ?
She's doing a very good job of hiding behind Kwarteng ATM
I see the man she picked to run the government is now to be paid for by the government rather than his lobbying firm , even though they'd spent days telling us this was 'perfectly normal'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63042132
The government consist of the prime minister, the cabinet, and junior ministers (plus civil servants). When the prime minister, the cabinet, and junior ministers, are all changed it is fair to say that the government has changed imo.
It isn't reasonable imo to say that John Major's government was the same as as Margaret Thatcher's government or that the government today is the same as the coalition government of 12 years ago.
The moment the Queen asked Liz Truss to form a new government there was a change of government.
There's plenty to get angry with Kwarteng over, his technically correct remark that we have a new government isn't one of those things.
He undoubtedly needs to be reminded that the Tories have been in government for over 12 years though.
I agree. It is a new government. However we elected the old one (or was it the one before?) so either the 'new' government should continue with the same mandate as the old one which includes owning the problems it created, or if there's a policies pivot then seek a new mandate.
May not have been the intent at the time, but this feels almost like a bait and switch outcome.
The moment the Queen asked Liz Truss to form a new government there was a change of government
Change of Government? Get a grip. Liz Truss has been a cabinet minister for the past ten years! She didn’t come from nowhere. She was foreign secretary. Allegedly. She signed off on all the shit she’s presently trying to distance herself from
It’s the same selection of useless, right-wing Brexiteer ghouls, including Kwatang, sat around the cabinet table as before. Liz just rearranged the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Change of Government? Get a grip.
Yeah me and all the news providers who reported that the Queen had asked Truss to form a new government, including your favourite one the Guardian, need to "get a grip".
The only person who seems to know what they are talking about is you binners.
Out with the old, in with the old.
New government? Sticking lipstick on a ****ing pig! 🙄
Load of bollocks from Truss and Kwartang - "We don't comment on market movements" they effing caused it! if affects US, our bills, our mortgages, our businesses.
Need better than that.
Believing this is a 'new' government is a bit like believing that The Queen could have chosen not to ask her to form one.
Or believing that this is the same government is a bit like believing that the prime minister, the cabinet, and all the junior ministers, are the same as before.
And that the economic policies outlined in the mini budget are exactly the same as the previous economic policies of the last twelve years.
Either way they have gone a long way from the original manifesto they were elected on.
It's OK,that old government was declared a failure and a bankrupt,luckily they had put most of their business through an ex-partner's account,so they can now start again as a sparkling new government. 😉 You just need to be patient while they get up to speed. 😕
Either way they have gone a long way from the original manifesto they were elected on.
Which is precisely why the opposition parties should be calling for a general election - the Tories's previous mandate has expired and a fresh mandate is required.
Kwarteng even helps to make the case by talking of a "new era" and a "new government".
Why aren't opposition parties exploiting that by pointing out the lack of legitimacy for the Tories to carry on governing without a fresh mandate?
Which is precisely why the opposition parties should be calling for a general election – the Tories’s previous mandate has expired and a fresh mandate is required.
I really don't understand why the opposition parties aren't more aggressive on this. We've essentially had a coup d-etat and the imposition of a government with no mandate on radically different policies than promised in the previous manifesto. If that doesn't require a new election then what the hell does? I can only conclude that labour don't feel like they're ready for an election, or they can't afford one right now.
Calling for a new election is pointless. Politics is a out what is possible and plausible. Another election is neither and calling for one also looks stupid and childish politically
You might as well ask for a magic golden unicorn or a list of Brexit benefits
Liz Truss and her chums don't have any new solutions ,so they will continue to tread water while thrashing about madly below the surface.This appears a safe strategy as Labour don't seem to have any thing on offer for the country,other than,we are not torries.I have said it before,but it's as if Labour don't really want the gig until things hit ground zero and are then begged to try and fix things. 😞
What does everyone think of Liz Truss's chances of bringing back grammar schools?
They don't work, and all the experts (okay I read the Guardian, so they will cherry pick who they talk to) agree on this. But this makes me think Truss will do it anyway, in the same way she has pushed through tax cuts for the rich.
I have two children in primary, and reintroducing grammar school is my biggest (among many) fears with this government. It would change looking at paying for extra lessons to help with reading/writing, to paying even more for extra lessons to pass an 11-plus and joining an arms race with other parents where I doubt we could afford.
Alas none of what they are doing should be a surprise. This is disaster capitalism at its highest level, in that they have also initiated the disaster.
I am terrified for anyone needing anything from the state in the next couple of years
I'd hardly call collapsing the UK economy whilst planning to decimate public services 'treading water'.
reintroducing grammar school is my biggest (among many) fears with this government
We’re in a grammar school area, so I sympathise. It really isn’t something for other areas to aspire to. Streaming can be carried out successfully in school, a hard division at the end of year six is good for no one.
It is like some bizarre dare to see just how far they can mess things up
I think it's more they know the previous Tory economic policies over the last 12 years have failed miserably so it's a last throw of the dice, going all in on an extreme government borrowing policy in the hope it starts paying off before the next GE (and with the bonus they and their friends get to line their pockets a bit more on the way).
Whilst many are hoping the policy turns into such a shit show it kills off the Tories entirely sadly I think it's more a case of Labour will win the next election but with a slim majority, not be able to get us out of the mess enough in their term and people with short memories vote the Tories back in after.
I hope there's a situation where this policy is enough of a fiasco the government gets an absolute hammering over it for the next couple of years (to the point Kwasi gets fired and Liz quits in disgrace) but it doesn't do lasting damage to the UK economy and leave hundreds of thousands more in poverty - unfortunately it's more likely we'll get the latter without the former.
Truss has , so far, not won over the voters Johnson alienated
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1574717700898684928?t=K6ydf1jAzM47h_hGJi4rcQ&s=19
This appears a safe strategy as Labour don’t seem to have any thing on offer for the country,other than,we are not torries.I have said it before,but it’s as if Labour don’t really want the gig until things hit ground zero and are then begged to try and fix things
I'm not going to derail the thread & talk about Labour, but have a look at what's coming out from their conference.
Truss is in their pockets
From austerity, to brexit to this budget farce the Tories & rw press have been dancing to their tune for years
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1574671150432620546?t=f22kIu8v6JWtNCJy8h1j6Q&s=19
Calling for a new election is pointless. Politics is a out what is possible and plausible. Another election is neither and calling for one also looks stupid and childish politically
Of course it isn't. The Chancellor himself is calling it a new era and a new government. It is both "possible and plausible" for the new prime minister to call for an early general election to give herself a personal mandate for her policies.
In fact the previous 2 prime ministers did precisely that when they came to office midterm. There is nothing "stupid and childish" pointing out that Truss should do the same.
The fact that she won't will simply rob the government further of its legitimacy to govern, and further undermine them, in the eyes of the public, and increase the chances that they will be voted out when the general election eventually comes.
Holding out and waiting until the very last moment to call an election, when there are perfectly legitimate reasons for calling an early, is not a good look for any government. And it should be exploited by opposition parties.
What is really daft however is claiming that there is no point in proposing something which a Tory government won't support.
Because if that was the case there would be no point to the opposition ever suggesting anything which is unlikely to receive the support of the Tory government.
The current Labour Conference with its counter-proposals would be pointless and the Labour benches in the House of Commons would be reduced to listening to the Tories and saying nothing in response.
> delete <
[ I'm not joining in with the (deliberate?) killing of another thread ]
Turkeys dont vote for Christmas. No chance of calling an election.
Its not plausible in any way. Truss does not give two hoots. All it would do is distract from the real issues
Not a chance of an early election.
They’ve signalled their intent in no uncertain terms
We’ve 2 years of scorched earth disaster capitalism to look forward to
While I understand that it's a "thing that you have to do" Truss congratulating Italy's new PM, but a couple of weeks ago couldn't be sure that Macron was a friend of the UK?
Adds to the feeling that there isn't an adult in the room all the time.
Not a chance of an early election.
Maybe not, but it doesn't stop the opposition parties (not just labour) pushing the case and making it very clear to the voters that the tories have executed a coup d'etat and imposed a govt with no mandate on policies that were never presented to the them. That point isn't really being made at the moment and the end result of continually changing leaders and policies mid-term is the erosion of faith (what little is left) in the democratic system.
You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?
Or ‘executed a coup d’etat’ if that’s your preferred turn of phrase
They’ve got plenty to presently go at without wasting time calling for an election that they definitely won’t get
All it would do is distract from the real issues
Of course it wouldn't, it would do the opposite - it would focus on the main current issue, what Kwarteng has called a new direction.
I have no idea what Starmer keynote speech will contain but if whilst he has the full attention of the media and TV cameras he was to publicly challenge Truss to put her economic policies to the British people and call a general election, as her two direct predecessor did, how on earth would that be called "stupid and childish".
Apart from anything else it would force Truss to explain why she won't seek a mandate and call an election when her very own Chancellor calls it a new era, a new direction, and a new government.
The Tories gave Gordon Brown untold stick for not calling an early general election and accused him of bottling it. Why should Labour let Truss get away with losing her bottle?
The only people I would expect to call challenging Truss "childish and stupid" are Tories. Are you a Tory now TJ?
Anyway…. We appear to be, somewhat predictably, back here yet again..
You can’t help yourselves, can you?
Is that what you now always do when you feel that you are losing an argument binners?
This thread is about Liz Truss. The suggestion has been made that opposition parties should perhaps challenge the legitimacy of her economic policies and whether she should, like her predecessors, seek a mandate.
Are you suggesting that this thread should only deal with issues concerning Liz Truss that you approve of?
You can’t help yourselves, can you?
Indeed.
Too much ironing.
You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?
I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?
Yes, and Brown bottled calling an election, which probably cost Labour another term.
'Dullards' oh the ironing.
Although I have to say - I am admiring the post-modernist energy of arguing about what somebody hasn't said in a conference speech.
Or is that Brechtian - I finished Uni too many years ago!
Sounds like fun, what thread is that on hels?
From austerity, to brexit to this budget farce the Tories & rw press have been dancing to their tune for years
And not just the press... BBC news and current affairs programmes have been stuffed with people from these "Think Tanks" providing "balance" for years now.
I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
and ol' Gordon would have been eternally grateful if it had been the case
I've figured it out!
Everyone thought Dizzy Liz was some sort of crap Neo-Thatcherite trying to emulate the Iron Lady, crush the plebs and elevate the city boys, but Nope her political model, while still drawn from the 80s, is based on a very different set of goals:
It's "Neo-Brewsterism" and she's trying to put everyone off of politics all together!
None of the Above!
If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
I suppose if the last decade or so has proven anything it's that he British people do love a good vote. It's just the outcomes we struggle with.
But I'd go a Step further than your proposed reforms: just abolish the Commons and the Lords, give all executive power over to Ant & Dec.
We'd get have a fortnightly national phone in on every major topic facing the nation.
Don't worry we can still have politicians but they'll basically just be light entertainers, given 2 minutes to make a pitch for your phone vote.
They'd make their pitch in front of a Panel made up of Stacy Solomon, the current Monarch, a randomly selected cast member from TOWIE and the most placid Tabby cat available at short notice. Each panellist gets to ask one question of each "Idea haver" and has one veto per-show where they can press a buzzer to cut off someone they just find objectionable for whatever reason...
Ant & Or Dec then have to implement the nation's choices, each failure to do so (from the preceding show) adds 60 seconds to the duration of their hand to hand battle with a Puma... Oh yeah I should have mentioned Ant & Dec have to fight a Puma at the end of every show.
I'm thinking of "Ant & Dec's Constitutional Nightmare!" as a working title (probably sponsored by Tetley's or Hovis)...
1.074
The BBC are still reporting that the pound is rallying... yet it hasn't even "bounced" back to the lows of last Friday. Everyone... talk positive and it'll all be okay...
Yep, you can turn a .0001% increase into a rally by picking the right window to draw the chart. And with most things like this you get ups along with the downs so that's an old old trick. Or "grew for 3 days" or similar. And most of all representing a reversion to the mean as growth.
Re demanding a general election, the point of demanding it isn't to get it. It's to make it absolutely clear that you want it, and to talk about the reasons why it should be happening, and to really nail down Truss's lack of mandate. And maybe most of all to make them refuse, because that looks very different to not just doing it.
ATM apologists can say "neither party wants a general election right now" and by not calling for one, Starmer opens himself up to accusations that he's scared to fight one. Of course this is all spurious nonsense but that's the game sometimes.
Petition to get her out has launched and has already triggered a response from the govt. I know it won't get anywhere but it's interesting to see the public mood show itself in this way.
Yeah, I signed that earlier, futile I know.
Governments response to the petition is from a parallel universe:
This response was given on 20 September 2022
The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations.
Could this be her poll tax moment?
There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery
Could this be her poll tax moment?
There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery
Dunno, Bozza didn't get into office and then immediately accelerate a recession, seemingly on purpose. It is quite something when you make Boris Johnson look like a safe pair of hands...
At this rate she'll be out before she's had a chance to choose the new wallpaper...
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.
Unless sufficient tories vote down the next finance bill or a vote of no confidence which pretty much forces a resignation then there is no way to get rid of her and there is no way the tories will let an early election happen as too many of them will lose their seats.
Of course she is in hiding. She has no answers to the awkward questions that will be asked
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
Indeed you would have thought that photo-op Lizzy would want to be all over the place this week, now she's back on home soil after a swally away.
1 acroos in this mormings Grauniad cryptic
Posh bloke is a Tory bastard? Not unknown (6)
How long does she have to last to get the PM pension?
She's probably just in her office drafting new rules on that.
After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.
My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.
the peoples revolution may change that..... depends how loudly we all tut at the same time
After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.
No, not yet.
But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles...
I think the Navy should name their next submarine HMS Truss
Launched with much fanfare, surfaced a few times, torpedoed the economy and now lurks undetectable...somewhere
Kentish man
Nope. Johnson had a personal popularity that might have won the Tories another election. Truss has not and has so trashed the Tories reputation its highly unlikely that they will win another election for a long time. Short term pain for long term gain.
But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles…
Cameron was probably the most corrupt of them, changed the law around political lobbying in way that specifically allowed him to have his "sponsor" inside government with him, and then to lobby on their behalf even once he'd moved on from government (and parliament). Had the balls to say upfront that the "Lobbying is the next scandal", before working to line his pockets through lobbying. There was a period where perhaps he seemed a reasonable leader for the country, compared to past Tory leaders... but then he got his chance to rule without the LibDems, and we saw the real Tory in full effect. May paved the way for Johnson with all her "Brexit means Brexit" red lines that pushed a Brexit that ruled out a Norway, Switzerland or other close trading relationship with the rest of the continent... working for the ERG & Farage types rather than the mass of people who voted for Brexit (and the rest of us). We're paying the price for her decisions now, and for decades. The rose tinted spectacles are being shared by many of us though... despite their roles in digging this country such a deep hole [ the pairing of utterly corrupt governance and self imposed economic shackles that will be used to excuse/explain our slide into a low regulation low tax (for the rich) low quality of life (if not rich) fractured state ] Johnson and Truss have proven to be worse, because where they have been digging the hole even deeper it has become more obvious to more people that it's getting darker for us.