dazh
Full Member
Weird there’s no chat in here about PMQs. Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive
I must have watched a different PMQs. Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich is how I'd describe it. Far from impressive.
Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich is how I’d describe it.
That would be pretty much my somethingion as well. Both Labour and the SNP emphasised that with their questions. I thought her first performance would be easier for her. All her backbenchers are super keen to look loyal and help launch her into a honeymoon period. It was obvious what questions she was going to face. It won't get much easier than this week for her. My take away was... "Labour and the SNP don't want us to give billions to gas companies to keep in profits..." ...might play well to her IEA backers, contacts at Shell, and ERG cabinet members... but I don't think it's going to have her surging up the polls...
...it could be exactly what she wants though. Focus on holding onto her position this side of an election, by playing to "her people", rather than worrying about what the wider public think about paying the fossil fuel giants and pushing more businesses their way.
Banal, and dedicated to huge profits for the rich
Of course she's dedicated to huge profits for the rich she's a tory! That really isn't my point though. She only comes across as banal compared to Johnson's court jester act. You could say instead that instead of simply blurting out what first comes to mind her answers were considered and well-judged and the result of a lot of preparation. Almost everyone on this thread (and I admit I've done it too in the past) has dismissed Truss as an unthinking idiot who is out of her depth. That's not what we saw at PMQs.
Truss was okay I thought - first time and all. She's not the absolute disaster everyone wanted her to be. Still a Tory etc. But not a stupid jester.
Starmer was ridiculous talking about pay-for. Centrists moving to this position - like Democrats. We want to help but only if we can afford it.
They quickly forget who they're meant to represent.
Of course we can afford it. Making sure money isn't thrown away into the profits of gas companies is the point. The Labour leader should not be in parliament supporting Truss as she funnels money into fossil fuel companies with the backing of the IEA (and whoever funds them... hint, it's not people keen on renewable energy) both of which she has been paid by. They absolutely should be calling Truss out for this, as should, and are, the SNP and other opposition parties. Asking "who should pay" for the help, when the obvious and right answer is "those companies making billions of profits out of high gas prices", isn't the same as saying we can't afford to help people as a country.
He should be in Parliament attacking the amount of support and how it gets here. That's it.
He concentrated on the pay-for.
... her answers were considered and well-judged and the result of a lot of preparation.
As answers to Prime Minister's Questions, I thought they were evasive and way short on substance, and she sounded a bit scared.
But, you know, perception is a funny thing.
Almost everyone on this thread (and I admit I’ve done it too in the past) has dismissed Truss as an unthinking idiot who is out of her depth. That’s not what we saw at PMQs.
Early days but I'm still to be convinced.
How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
Never - and I've never voted Conservative or SNP. I'm not saying I wouldn't, I'm not tribal, but not once have they given me a reason to vote for them. I've voted LD for most of my life, but occasionally Labour if their policies or candidates were good ones. I liked what Tom Tugenhat was saying in the Leadership debates and I think it says something about my views vs the typical Conservative in that he was one of the first eliminated.
I have never voted. Without going into details, politics and voting was just never on my radar until recent years.
Living more of a stable, boring lifestyle these days. Registered to vote and everything! So I drift onto these politics threads occasionally trying to work things out and which way I should potentially vote in future. Other forums too, online sources, TV, friends and family etc.
I'm still none the wiser, growing up in a working-class background the consensus was always - Labour good, Conservative bad. But that was in the past and from my own experience as an adult growing up through both of them - they're as bad/good as each other, in slightly differing ways. I wouldn't consider myself left or right wing. I'm all over the place, mainly in the middle with a few bits from either end of the spectrum. And I'm hardly representative of the average British household. So I'm beginning to see that it's probably best to vote in the interest of the majority of the population/country rather than for one's own interests. 'Least worst option' as somebody else described it.
‘Least worst option’ as somebody else described it.
We all end up there, when voting in a FPTP system. It's a mess. Your experience sound very normal to me.
Ultimately Liz Truss won't be judged on her performance at PMQ's, she will be judged on the economy as she has fixed her wagon to a very specific low tax for the rich model.
Her version of growing the economy back is not so much trickle down economics as it is a pissing on our backs and tell us it's raining economics.
The likelihood is that any growth (stop laughing at the back) will be eaten up by inflation and currency devaluation.
She probably faces as much opposition from within her own party as she does from across the aisle, something she has doubled down on by selecting a cabinet that aligns with her own peculiar ideology rather than one that embraces what they call one nation Conservatism.
That and the fact that her predecessor has used up all the available dead cats. (I fear for Larry).
jambourgie wrote:
I’m all over the place, mainly in the middle with a few bits from either end of the spectrum. And I’m hardly representative of the average British household.
You would be surprised. I would say that is a fair summary of the bulk of the population. Something that doesn't sit well with a 2 party FPTP electoral system (and don't say there is are more than 2 parties to choose because the FPTP system makes that largely irrelevant.)
In a fptp marginal i vote vote the party most likely to beat the tories. But im in a safe smp seat nowadays.
In a safe seat fptp i vote green if available. List vote green.
Ive voted for independents. Ive never voted tory or snp. My mp is a liar and a carpetbagger tho snp. Snp might well get my vote if and when it becomes a defacto referendum but it might stay green. Details matter.
On pmqs i only have the Guardian to go on and they were quite impressed. Much to my suprise as i thought she would be poor
Btw i dont loathe tory voters. Its the party i loathe. Su tle difference
But, you know, perception is a funny thing.
I guess it depends on expectations. Compared to Johnson it was a rather large improvement since whilst not great answers they were at least answers. Question is can Starmer take advantage of it by digging into her answers and pushing her further.
And Blackford. He might not cut through outside parliament, but his question is often the most cutting at PMQs. As he did with Johnson, he will prick through to what really matters quite often, and phrase it in a way that takes a lot of the listening/watching public along for the ride.
Truss was better than I expected at PMQs. Obviously she didn't really answer any questions apart from spouting her campaign lines but that's normal isn't it? It's all bozo did. A bit wooden but far from a disaster. I tuned in to laugh at her but was disappointed.
Not sure I'd go so far to say she was impressive but I'll hold my hands up and say she did better than I previously predicted on here, so perhaps she impressed relative to expectations.
Trust's performance was ok, bland but ok.
Her trouble will be that at PMQ's and in the broader context, she hasn't got BJ's "gift" of being able to sell obviously detrimental policies to the country as positives because they are so dressed up in comedy and Latin.
Her terrible policies and her complete contempt for a significant part of her own party (a shown by her cabinet appointments) will be her downfall.
This is the age of Tory regicide and she is just the latest PM to have fought hard to be handed the obviously poisoned chalice.
My voting history? Always Labour but will likely be LibDem at next election as a tactical vote. I'm on the south and Labour just won't get in round here, much too my chagrin, as there is a lot of poverty here as well as wealth.
Truss obviously way more serious than Johnson, which is a problem for Starmer, however she looked vulnerable on taxing the fat cats to pay for her bill freeze. That is a weakness and labour right to exploit it.
She's got an uphill battle tbh
https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1567520435201347584?t=CtOB4pnAQSyozUJfvIb6zA&s=19
Do they deliberately photograph her to try to make her look like a sex doll from Wilko? I'd have expected better from the Torygraph.
the-muffin-man
Full MemberHow many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
I had to vote tactically til 2010, really didn't have much choice, it was Labour or Tory. Since then I've had a choice, in 2015 I voted SNP but I did consider Labour- they had an excellent local candidate but by that point Scottish Labour were an absolute disaster (in 2017, they had a different candidate, spent the entire campaign attacking the SNP, and celebrated the fact that they fell to 3rd place but managed to narrow the SNP's win, even though it was now SNP vs Tory. Insanity...)
I think it's fair to say I've only once really felt that I had a real choice in the westminster elections.
Truss obviously way more serious than Johnson, which is a problem for Starmer, however she looked vulnerable on taxing the fat cats to pay for her bill freeze. That is a weakness and labour right to exploit it.
No difference because people don't trust Labour at the moment or at least they don't think Labour can do a better job then the current Tory govt.
No
Yeah right ...
In that case Liz Truss should call for a snap election asap or perhaps let Labour govern ...
I doubt Labour can do any better in the current climate other than spending future money.
Oh ya ... then nationalise everything, fix the amount a person can earn and create magic green energy.
Truss won't call a snap election because they might not win a majority and they don't have to.
I doubt
No difference because people don’t trust Labour at the moment
That’s your opinion
Saying it doesn’t make it necessarily true
Many others may well disagree as outlined above.
Truss won’t call a snap election because they might not win a majority and they don’t have to.
True. She is in no hurry.
Many others may well disagree as outlined above.
That's normal and probably in denial like any other political parties.
Well Truss is about go full socialist
Energy cap
Human Rights
No bonfire of workers rights
Rwanda cancelled
She has her eye on the next election.. question is can she survive the ERG/ Backbenchers wrath...
I know that there correctly is care around violent language and MPs.
That said if Cleverly acted like that in a pub he'd get a slap.
She has her eye on the next election.. question is can she survive the ERG/ Backbenchers wrath…
Isn't it another two years from now for the next GE? She can survive if she can reduce the cost of living.
Which party do Red Wall voters trust the most on...? (Conservative | Labour)
Immigration (20% | 32%)
Well that shatters one STW cherished truth.
Or does it mean that "Red Wall" voters now see the Labour Party as the most racist party?
I've been hearing around here the potential for business collapses is much greater than you would glean from the press. Energy is a major issue but far from being the only one.
I’ve been hearing around here the potential for business collapses is much greater than you would glean from the press. Energy is a major issue but far from being the only one.
Was watching the news just now. I mean the energy cost for all companies has gone up some by between 100% to 300%. If this is the case there will be imminent collapse for many and it is not a question of when but how fast. Many will not last for more than 2 years if the crazy increase continues.
Crikey are we in twilight zone?
Okay let's have the magic green energy then ... in a year or two to a time before the sanctions.
Or does it mean that “Red Wall” voters now see the Labour Party as the most racist party?
It's hard to tell judging by this :
https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2022/07/19/widespread-racism-in-labour-new-report/
And the amount of black and asian faces in Tory Cabinets these days.
Okay let’s have the magic green energy then … in a year or two to a time before the sanctions.
no-one is suggesting green energy as a solution to this energy crisis short term.
And Blackford. He might not cut through outside parliament, but his question is often the most cutting at PMQs. As he did with Johnson, he will prick through to what really matters quite often, and phrase it in a way that takes a lot of the listening/watching public along for the ride.And Blackford. He might not cut through outside parliament, but his question is often the most cutting at PMQs. As he did with Johnson, he will prick through to what really matters quite often, and phrase it in a way that takes a lot of the listening/watching public along for the ride.
Oh man….that’s the funniest thing I’ve read in ages!
I guess it depends on expectations. Compared to Johnson it was a rather large improvement since whilst not great answers they were at least answers. Question is can Starmer take advantage of it by digging into her answers and pushing her further.
Ian Dunt suspects that Starmer is laying the groundwork for a later fall into a pit or her own devising.
(His final comment of "That was like watching something die" raised a laugh here).
Off topic a bit but as she is our new Home Secretary...
Suella Braverman, I never knew she was a Buddhist.
Must take some mental gymnastics to reconcile that with some of her political opinions.
Suella Braverman, I never knew she was a Buddhist.
I am a Buddhist too but I am on the path, trying, trying ... nahh ... I am a bad Buddhist.
Buddhist is just a person learning or trying to walk the path, and s/he might not make the right decision all the time or live the life they should be but trying.
Suella Braverman, I never knew she was a Buddhist.
Nor me, Triratna Buddhist Community apparently, which is Western based as opposed to Eastern based so presumably she is a convert, or her parents were.
The Triratna Buddhist Community have a very active centre in Croydon where I usually go at least once a week for yoga. In fact last week I did a couple of days voluntary carpentry work for them as they were doing major refurbishing work to their yoga room.
It was a very strange experience indeed, all the work was undertaken by volunteers and I was the only non-buddhist. The whole thing was treated as a community/Buddhist experience, among the things that the working day involved was yoga and meditation 4 times a day (as you would tea breaks) and community cooked and shared meals/food. But what surprised me most of all was how there wasn't the vaguest attempt to convert me despite involving me in absolutely every part of their activities. In my admittedly limited experience they are an exceptionally nice bunch of people.
Sorry for the derailment as I'm not sure of how much of this relates to Suella Braverman who imo appears to be an exceptionally unpleasant person, although as I said earlier I judge people as individuals.
And perhaps it should be pointed out that the founder of the Triratna Buddhist Community was claimed by many to be also a deeply unpleasant person and with a dark side :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/21/sangharakshita-guru-triratna-buddhist-dark-secrets
Edit: Just to be clear the Triratna Buddhist Community don't defend the behaviour of their founder, and although I haven't discussed it with them my understanding is that they determined that such things should never occur again.
energy cost for all companies has gone up some by between 100% to 300%
My company is on a contract with Scottish Power that’s due to expire- they’ve written to say they won’t quote when it ends and we need to arrange an alternative supplier. One firm (poss EDF) are not issuing any quotes for new business for the next 2-3 weeks.
@ernielynch
Interesting post that, in a good way I mean, just to be clear.Lol 👍
One day I want to make a post that sort of touches on religion/ the human condition but want to pen it in a way so as not to cause feathers to fly as it really isn't my intention.
Anyway, enough of my ot ramblings.
Interesting post that, in a good way I mean
Thanks Poops didn't mean to derail the thread but it's just a weird coincidence that less than a week ago I was very involved with the Buddhist sect that new Home Secretary is apparently a member of.
Actually thinking about it more I am really struggling to see how Suella Braverman can reconcile her position in the Tory Party with being a member of the Triratna Buddhist Community.
I haven't done much meditation at the Buddhist Centre as I find it quite boring, but I have done and know that possibly their most important form of meditation is metta bhavana meditation, which is "lovingkindness" meditation.
It involves focusing on feelings of kindness to not only to friends and people close to you but also to strangers, and most importantly, people who are "difficult" and not necessarily pleasant towards you.
How the **** can someone focus on doing that and then get on with their job of being a rabid right-wing Tory Home Secretary?!?
