And in case anyone doubts that many are happy to murder babies and children some Israeli politicians are relaxed enough to say it publicly :
Imagine the outcry if an Arab politician made similar remarks about Jewish babies.
Meanwhile in the west bank the utter **** settlers carry on doing whatever they like with impunity
https://twitter.com/infinite__jaz/status/1949124879640350821
That is because Benjamin Netanyahu has given his personal approval, no other reason.
Jordan's efforts will make a difference for some people, which is a good thing, but you need large amounts of aid sent in by road. Overland routes are easier, cheaper and more effective. Israel has ports that UK aid could be sent to in large quantities by sea if needed
Airdrops play well in the media for the government and the PM can "support" the middle-east by sending UK military logisticians to "help" Jordan.
It diverts attention from the discussion about an out-of-date UK policy on the State of Palestine because the film from the back of a transport aircraft always looks good and the media will snap it up
Airdrops play well in the media for the government and the PM can "support" the middle-east by sending UK military logisticians to "help" Jordan.
Exactly why Starmer is doing it - to look like he's doing something (as you say, nice footage of planes etc) while doing precisely nothing to help Gaza.
So once again an Israeli government minister openly and publicly admits that Israel is/was committing a war crime and restricting humanitarian aid to civilians, in complete contradiction to the official Israeli position that they are not restricting aid.
Israel boosted aid to Gaza to avoid European sanctions, says minister
It also exposes as nonsense the claim that European countries have little or no leverage with regards to the situation in Gaza and the West Bank.
Airdropping is good optics but it's laden with risk and heightened risk of failing to achieve its purpose.
- 7x more expensive than overland/sea freight.
- Loss significant control of supplies due to dispersion area.
- Increased risk of loss due to instability and lack of security of drop zone(s).
- Increased risk to population from pallets due to lack of security and control of drop zone(s).
- Increased burden in disruption agencies in terms of logistics to gather supplies and relocate to distribution points, those most in need.
I'm sure there'll be much self-congratulating happening after the drops, the impact will likely be minimal for those it's aimed at helping.
Airdropping is good optics
Which I think is where the discussion will have ended. Nice photo op plus, in the UK case, can also go "look at the RAF helping out despite the best efforts of Palestine Action".
Airdropping is good optics
Which I think is where the discussion will have ended. Nice photo op plus, in the UK case, can also go "look at the RAF helping out despite the best efforts of Palestine Action".
Aye.
PM: Aid to Gaza — what are our options?
Aide: We can deliver by air to a secure airhead, then transport by road. It’s easier to control, manage, and distribute that way.
PM: What about airdrops?
Aide: Logistically difficult, high cost, and a real risk to supplies, civilians, and aid workers. But it plays well on BBC News.
PM: Say no more, fam. Get me the CAS on the blower.
Aide: ....
80 years later, descendants of the victims of similar atrocities are now committing the same crimes against humanity.
I think Miriam Margolyes word's will stay with me for ever........."Hitler won. He changed us. He made us like him"
One of the ways to strip someone of their humanity is to brutalise them.
Give every settler living in an illegal settlement 24hrs to vacate the West Bank, then hand the land back. If they refuse then ………………
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1949950790795178227
https://twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/1949875271001395598
This was a really good article published by “The New Yorker” magazine yesterday, (no sub needed)
Israels Zones Of Denial
So Starmers government will recognise the state of Palestine unless Israel agree to a ceasefire. Hey Israel, if you wouldn't please mind stop slaughtering and starving a nation or we might actually at some point in the future actually recognise that they are humans with rights.
He really is a banjo plucking cousin ****ing dribbling drooling imbecile, I cant believe some people still defend this useless waste of space ignorant idiot.
Will the state of Palestine be recognised under 1947 borders?, or 1967 borders?, and naturally I expect Israel will have to vacate the lands it occupies illegally.
Well the UK has never recognised that the occupied territories are part of Israel so it presumably cannot include later acquisitions.
Palestine cannot be defined differently to how it is by the other 147 of the UN's 193 member state which recognise it
I'm a Labour voter, but inclined to agree. You'll recognise Palestine as a country but only as a punishment for Israel?! Way to go you absolute banjo string...So Starmers government will recognise the state of Palestine unless Israel agree to a ceasefire. Hey Israel, if you wouldn't please mind stop slaughtering and starving a nation or we might actually at some point in the future actually recognise that they are humans with rights.
He really is a banjo plucking cousin ****ing dribbling drooling imbecile, I cant believe some people still defend this useless waste of space ignorant idiot.
I'm a Labour voter, but inclined to agree. You'll recognise Palestine as a country but only as a punishment for Israel?! Way to go you absolute banjo string...
I was also under-whelmed by this announcement, but a wiser head than mine on the radio tonight was adamant that there is no way Israel will do what Starmer is asking, and so he's got everyone on side. Apparently.
Starmer's position on Palestine will without doubt cause long-term damage to Labour. Just his position on Gaza with regards to a ceasefire when he was leader of the Opposition damaged Labour.
It is hard to say exactly how many seats Labour lost in the GE due to their stance but obviously the 4 that went to pro-Palestine independents, and the Greens ended up with 4 seats instead of the widely expected 1 seat, Gaza will have a part in that although it's difficult to know how much.
Now in government Labour decides directly what UK policy towards the ongoing genocide is and as it is incomparably worse in public perception, especially the sight of starving children and daily reports of massacres being carried out by the IDF, the damage is far greater.
That sort of thing isn't something which people easily forget, and it isn't just the large swathes of Muslim votes that they have lost.
The irony is that Starmer claims to not want "gesture politics" with regards to the genocide in Gaza and yet that is precisely what he and Lammy are offering..... just words. The words are starting to sound more and more sincere and heartfelt but that is all they are, just words.
There are no signs of the "concrete action" which the UK government promised months ago they would "not hesitate" to take if Israel did not lift the illegal restrictions on humanitarian aid and stop committing war crimes.
there is no way Israel will do what Starmer is asking
Correct. But it needs to be seen as a part of rolling announcements around the world. Close to home that was first Spain, and then France. It’s not just about the UK. If USA can be pulled towards a similar position in coming weeks perhaps things will change. I doubt it though. At least, I doubt it’ll come soon enough to stop the ethnic cleansing in Gaza before it is all but complete. And Israel will not accept a two state solution without a change of government. Regime change is needed.
It looks it might actually put more pressure on the Israeli government than we might imagine, the Israeli opposition appear to be furious.
Although it is difficult to know how much Netanyahu and his far-right allies care about such things.
“This government led us from the most justified war in the world to a diplomatic disaster,” Opposition Leader Yair Lapid writes in a Hebrew-language post on X. “One failure after another. A prime minister who has vanished from the diplomatic arena, a useless foreign minister, and ministers who endanger IDF soldiers every time they open their mouths.”
Yisrael Betyenu chairman Avigdor Liberman posts in Hebrew: “The person responsible for the October 7 disaster is also responsible for the diplomatic collapse that keeps growing,” apparently referencing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
“More and more countries are considering recognizing the catastrophe known as a Palestinian state — including the UK, one of the key members of the United Nations Security Council,” he says.
There’s no way Germany nor U.S. will recognise a Palestinian state and they are the countries that supply the vast majority of the weapons and support.
meanwhile……
https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1950259113948070197
I heard an interview with the outgoing German ambassador to the uk yesterday. He said that he thought British people are obsessed with WW2. And in the same breath justified German complicity in the genocide (I paraphrase) on the grounds of German guilt around the holocaust.
Some drunken fat slob in a Union flag shirt singing a stupid song is unpleasant, for sure, but I’m not sure it’s comparable to dropping bombs on children.
Well it turns out that everyone is lying and there is no starvation in Gaza
https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1949779085003022661
In which case I have no idea why Netanyahu has reluctantly decided to allow the illegal restriction of humanitarian aid to be eased.
It also turns out that after nearly 2 years of the IDF fighting a "war" against Hamas they could, according to Netanyahu, threaten Britain tomorrow:
https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1950276639880872366
The most moral army in the world doesn't appear to be very good at defeating its barely armed enemy, although Netanyahu has warned them that they will definitely be defeated.
Although it is difficult to know how much Netanyahu and his far-right allies care about such things.
Quite a bit.
The ultra-orthodox Shas party is leaving Israel's governing coalition and PM Netanyahu was said to be considering early elections before he loses any more coalition members (he lost another ultra-orthodox partner days before) and is now a minority government.
His current government can only get worse from a position of weakness so he's had two choices for a while; either win the war, which he's failed to do and now has the international community on his back or get all of the hostages released in time for a snap election
The national and international Courts beckon
Famine being inflicted as a weapon of war and... Starmer might recognise a Palestinian state in September if the Israelis don't stop being beastly. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
I can just imagine the tail end of a call between Trump and Netanyahu:
N: Have you heard that schmuck Starmer saying he'll counter my military with words in no less than 9 weeks time? Ha ha ha. We'll be mostly done by then anyway.
T: Yeah, I told him it was OK, got to give the little guy something to feel big about. Do you want me to tell him not to?
N: Why? You actually think we give a shit?
Laughs all round - same time next week, then?
The national and international Courts beckon
You actually believe that - the international bit?
The most moral army in the world doesn't appear to be very good at defeating its barely armed enemy
Though they’ve certainly become their greatest recruitment asset. A lot of previously moderate people must have been radicalised by Israel’s casual inhumanity and performative cruelty, as the less genocidal of Israelis have been pointing out
Signs outside shops in Crete which has a lot of Israeli tourists
https://twitter.com/koinian/status/1950184869494948180
Starmer might recognise a Palestinian state in September if the Israelis don't stop being beastly. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
What do you want him to do that will have an effect?
I'm not a supporter of Starmer, but he's just upended a decades-old UK policy, no doubt having discussed it in Scotland first, but he's done it, which is a start and more than our own Conservative party and others.
You actually believe that - the international bit?
Why not?
The ICC Assembly of States Parties still has to sanction Hungary following its failure to execute the ICC warrant in April; Hungary announced its withdrawal from the ICC after the visit, which is too late.
If the ICC and the EU actually act on Hungary then it might encourage others.
which is a start and more than our own Conservative party and others.
The Tories are out of the blocks already, somewhat unsurprisingly, with Priti Patel condemning the move already
What do you want him to do that will have an effect?
For a start:
Recognise Palestine unconditionally - not just if Israel doesn't make some cosmetic adjustment to their behaviour.
End military support and co-operation.
Embargo Israeli goods.
Sanction ministers and investigate IDF members in the UK.
The Tories are out of the blocks already, somewhat unsurprisingly, with Priti Patel condemning the move already
Hard to see what political advantage is to be gained from supporting genocide precisely at the moment when even the BibiC are showing famine victims on the news. Another Tory own goal, then.
What do you want him to do that will have an effect?
For a start:
Recognise Palestine unconditionally - not just if Israel doesn't make some cosmetic adjustment to their behaviour.
End military support and co-operation.
Embargo Israeli goods.
Sanction ministers and investigate IDF members in the UK.
Most of which he can't do because the world is too inter-connected.
I've made the point about F35 fighters before, several countries including the UK and Israel use them. We can't just stop that trade or we couldn't equip the RAF
Our drone forces are massively involved with Israel's companies too. It'd be good to buy from Ukraine and use their huge expertise, but you can't do it easily ATM
Tim Marshall (author of Prisoners of Geography) was on LBC on Monday night from 6-7pm discussing this.
Worth listening to on the catch-up service. Adds useful context to the situation because news sources are inherently biased towards one side or another.
Most of which he can't do because the world is too inter-connected.
There is absolutely nothing stopping him, even if what you say is true, and the actions described by drj bring on punishment from the US and they stop supplying f35 parts, then there is a clear moral choice, do we continue our support of genocide, of the deliberate starving of children, to the blockade of desperately needed medical supplies, to using aid to tempt starving families into killing fields, or do we look elsewhere for arms supplies and accept that sometimes supporting humanity has a relatively trivial cost.
Hard to see what political advantage is to be gained from supporting genocide precisely at the moment when even the BibiC are showing famine victims on the news. Another Tory own goal, then.
It’s muscle memory for them. They can’t help themselves
@Flaperon - he’s been on Five Live a lot with Matt Chorley, commenting on the situation. Always worth listening to as he happily skewers those less well informed or just pushing their own agendas
What do you want him to do that will have an effect?
Well since Sir Keir Starmer promised us, quote, "New Labour on steroids" I would expect him to make the case for military intervention against a brutal murderous regime.
Although I would settle for full and comprehensive sanctions against Israel and a determination to help bring war criminals, both politicians and the military,. to justice.
Adds useful context to the situation because news sources are inherently biased towards one side or another.
Of course they are inherently biased, you either support a genocide or you oppose it.
How many people do you know that take a neutral position on the Holocaust or any other genocide?
Most of which he can't doesn’t want to do because the world is too inter-connected he is, as he’s told us many times, a Zionist
FTFY
And I see that MAGA pin-up girl and Trump cheerleader, Marjorie Taylor Greene, has decided to call a spade a spade
According to my profound legal understanding of the issue ( I listened to a podcast) the US are reluctant to call something a genocide as they are then legally obligated to do something about it. This was inconvenient in the case of Rwanda - where it took about half a million murders to convince them to act. I can’t imagine them accepting the existence of a genocide in Palestine anytime soon.
Of course they are inherently biased, you either support a genocide or you oppose it.
That’s quite a binary viewpoint Ernie. I’m a centrist. I can see the arguments for and against a genocide.
