From 0 to 911.... (one for enthusiasts)

Hoefully you'll be lusting after something electric by then and 911s will be seen for what they are - horrible noisy polluting things. 😉

I've noticed original Tesla roadster prices are heading skywards, that might be a better bet.

Just PM WCA,he could bodge one up for you at a very good price👍😉🤣

I had a 997 Carrera S, owned it for a couple of years and got my money back when I sold it.

However I got very lucky that someone went into the back of it and so the ~£10 000 bill for replacing the exhaust and catalyst along with the rear bumper went to them rather than me.

I enjoyed driving it, but it was just too fast for public roads. I’m not sure I’d have another one, no matter what my financial circumstances.

If I did get another one, then it would be the base model. Part of the joy of a 911 is getting it to make the noise as you rev it to the limit. You’re able to do that more often in the slower ones.

I much prefer the mid-engine Porsches. Can't stand the lazy/poggoing turn in of the 911. I would really test drive both before committing, OP.

I spent ages poking about the idea of a 996 or a boxer.

In the end I'm a total cheapskate and running an expensive car at my budget was asking for bill I couldn't pay.

My budget was the bottom of the market I would have had a car that had been through loads of people. Some possibly in the same boat as me, can afford to buy it but not maintain it.

Tales of new engines due to valve liners really put me off. My mate still has an engine block from a 911 in the garden as a planter. Another mate bought an old boxer and commuted 40 miles a day in it. After the third body off fault he bought something else to commute in. He said the body had to come off to get at the engine. I did wonder at the time if the backstreet garage he was taking it to was totally legit.

I was in a local Porsche garage ages ago trying to persuade them to take some training. They were politely not interested.

They did say some people spend ages (years in some cases) building a relationship with the dealer before finally putting down a deposit and waiting for a car to be built.

Get down your local dealer. Try some cars, get saving. 10 years should give you plenty of time. In 10 years time who knows what faults will develop in newish cars.

£150 an hour for diagnostics at BMW. I'd want to know what the labour rate is at Porsche. I'm quite sure I would be going "HOW MUCH!' so go in with your eyes open

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-10/porsche-drivers-teeth-chatter-with-taycan-heater-on-the-fritz

On the other hand a teacher mate has had a boxer for 10 years. No problems, loves it, still feels every drive is an event, regular servicing and it has thrown nothing other than mildly expensive consumables.

I've lived this tale through a good work colleague.

997 gen2 is the 'best value' of the early water cooled but still have some big ticket service items. Gen 1's and 996 are into potential bore wear territory/Hartage of Bolton rebuilds.

There are a lot people selling these cars, do your homework carefully.
Friend bought a 'good un' that wasn't quite and bailed out quickly into a Maserati Granturismo instead that he prefers.

You can’t drive them fast on the road unless you want to risk losing your license, and they aren’t cheap to run.

An mx5 will give you the roof down enjoyment of a rwd car, without the license losing ability, or cost of ownership. It might not have the badge, but who cares if you are enjoying yourself?

we had the same plan, both love 911’s and planned to get one when the mortgage was paid off in a few years.

anyway we were looking to replace my wife’s Fabia vrs nearly 3 years ago. We went to a garage to look at a Golf and they had an 05 Boxster there as well. Test drove it, both loved it and bought it.

It had already had crossover coolant pipes replaced (1k job) and well maintained by Porsche and then specialists.

3 years on we have spent just over £2k on maintenance, a full service inc spark plugs and belts, minor service, new brake lines ( corroded behind under trays) and a new window regulator.

it’s a base 2.7 987 and it’s not fast by modern standards 6s to 60, but that just means you can use more of the performance within speed limits. It sounds glorious once you get over 4k revs.

we are more than happy to keep this long term and give up on a 911, I don’t think the additional spend could increase my enjoyment anymore. It’s the perfect second car to my Tesla  model 3.

I found a specialist called Unique in Bolton to look after it. They are excellent and around £80  per hour on the labour charge.

Chris

As above. If you’re wedded to the idea of a combustion engined sports car, a nicely sorted MX5 will cause you a lot less stress than a Porsche or any flavour. Pennies to fix by comparison and a lot more rewarding to drive at legal speeds. I’m not going back to fossil fuels now, but if I were a BBR tuned Mk4 MX5 would be my choice £ for £ over anything more exotic.

If you really want a 911 make sure you really do your homework. Piston Heads forum  is a good place to both read and get advice. 

The 997.2 is probably the best place to start since the engines are more reliable that the earlier water cooled 996 / 997.1. Also they look great to me (other opinions may differ).

They are very nice things to drive, quite a unique experience compared to mid/front engined cars and own (I'm on my second and had very little trouble with them).

Although who knows what people will be driving in 10yrs time.

Personally if I was in the market for a 911 I’d get the 911 GTS. Basically has all the sensible options already specced, and depending on model/year sometimes has a tiny bit of extra performance.

I wouldn’t bother with the Carerra 4 GTS though, there is grip a plenty in the 2WD versions.

Looked hard at a variety of options. The 993’s are my first love and we have an independent garage in our road, so I see a lot of them. In reality a 997.2 is the one to have for reliable enjoyment. In the event, needing a dog carrier and with a Ulez non-compliant family CRV, I settled for a Macan S. At least the dashboard is the same. And driving it is a pleasure too. A 911  is not dog friendly, and a Panamera estate still out of budget.

I’ve only had front engined pork (3 944s).
You get the poor man’s Porsche tag with the £250 for a water pump costs.
However they are astonishing in how well built they were and the quality of the fixings. Being able to undo nearly 40 year old bolts without stripping a thread or a welder is quite a thing. They don’t mind rusting though.

As to the argument of you don’t need all that power on modern roads, being able to overtake without fear is great.

My 944 turbo has around 350bhp and can be a lot of fun whilst never breaking a speed limit, (although 350bhp is hot hatch territory these days).
No driver aids whatsoever and you can happily give it full beans without ending up on fire and upside down.

They can be addictive though. A friend of mine took his 911 to Australia, on the grounds it was worth much more there, so he’d make a profit. He lived there for a couple of years and bought the car back to the UK again.
So actually an expensive exercise.

I do know of a 911 996 that is going for sale in West Sussex at a good price and I can bypass the dealer for you if required. PM me for details.

I am in Southampton and happy to let you have a look around mine and I can take you out for a blast if you want. Again PM me.

I am not as stunned and amazed as I was hoping to be by the 911. I have a 2005 C4S and while the tight handling and road holding is great, I miss the power and acceleration of my old Merc. They are quite pricey for parts but often it is the labour that stings. It is not that you are overcharged, it is that for so many basic things you have to drop the engine and transmission or half the front of the car apart. If you want to work on them yourself then you need ramps and the 997 only has 4 point you can jack the car up on so lots of the cheaper ones won't work unless you make some kind of adaptor like I did (

Also don't expect much more than 20mpg for general driving and obviously less when pressing on. My 5.6 V8 Supercharged Merc could do over 40mpg by comparison.

Having said all that seemingly negative stuff, I do really like the car and as I only bought it to ruin with modifications to the bodywork, I can live with the shortcomings.

Also- where are you going to actually drive a fancy car to?

Not work as it's post retirement.
Supermarket?
Center of town for a nice meal?
To a country pub for a non alcoholic drink?
Track day to actually get your foot down for more than 4 seconds?
Put a rack on the roof and park it in a deserted car park for riding?
Euro roadtrip? Where are you going to park it? I would have to base my hotel choices on car parking.

I've totally talked myself out of a sports car. There is a bright red newish Ferrari that lives on my way home from work.

I still can't work out what I'd use it for. None of the above! I've not been for "a drive" for years.

A bloke I knew told me his mate retired and bought a fancy Porsche, which ruined his life because he could never relax when out for fear it was getting scratched or stolen.

One of the advantages of a 911 in a discrete colour is that you can park them in most places and they’re ok.

[i]Also- where are you going to actually drive a fancy car to?[/i] - A bland silver 911 isn't a particularly 'fancy' car so as Kramer says, you can use them to go anywhere. Not much space for the shopping though. I often just go out for a drive for the enjoyment of driving, weird huh? Buying a car to enjoy driving in. That doesn't mean I have to drive everywhere at a bazzillion miles an hour and obviously I can't fully exploit it on public roads.

Have a think about your bikes for a moment though. Do you fully exploit it on every journey? Do you use it to the exclusion of all other transport or just when you want to? etc etc etc

The bike is a hobby you 'waste' money on. The car is exactly the same 'waste' of money. Great fun though

911s make a great daily driver. You can also fit people in the back, but it’s uncomfortable enough that they wouldn’t choose to ride in it regularly. 😉

Planned on getting a sports car later in life. When my mum sadly passed away I took her love of Italian things and bought a Maserati Granturismo. Figured if I waited then it might never happen! Had to pick something that can actually sit 4 people or  I don’t think I would use it as much. Usually get out once a week in it, running errands or picking the kids up from clubs etc. Had it bit over a year and still haven’t really gone for a drive in it. It works as I don’t have to use it daily. Still makes me smile starting it up. Realistically the Tesla is much faster in any kind of usable way and the diesel estate not that far off but neither make me smile  like it

One of my old colleagues was going to get  a 911 but in the end went with a Boxster and loves it. He’s properly retired and doesn’t have to run around kids anymore so gets away with it.

On the flip side my much more practical sister bought an MX5 instead ( and a new motorbike for my BIL) instead and uses it daily.

I use my not so fancy Porsche to carry my bike. It’s about as economical as a van doesn’t depreciate and I get to have fun before and after I have fun on my bike.

Have a word with the Porsche Club GB guys. I had a hankering for a Cayman for a while but we needed a four door car, I had a long chat with them on their stand at RaceRetro a few years ago. Would be a good source of info on potential issues and common faults etc.

https://www.porscheclubgb.com

a 924 is not a fancy car. they were selling for well under a grand a decade ago, and just look like a mildly interesting, svelt 70s car. I had a 944s2 and preferred the 924 looks but wanted a bit more power. They do rot quite a lot, so check for that, later 924s is probably the one to go for (assuming you haven't the budget for a carrera), as they use the 944 engine.

lots of buyers guides with common faults in them. I found mine fairly tricky on-limit, but fun the rest of the time.

Currently trying to get my one month old to burp, so

@WorldClassAccident

Have a think about your bikes for a moment though. Do you fully exploit it on every journey? Do you use it to the exclusion of all other transport or just when you want to? etc etc etc

Nope I've been taking it steady and deciding to take the less tricky line for the last few months and will be for quite a while. Next time I'll be on an uplift somewhere to fully exploit it... End of summer? Maybe?

Out on my road bike yesterday and that really comes alive when I'm giving it some beans. Currently I can manage beans mode for about 5 min of a 3 hour ride. It's wasted on me but still nice to ride.

I struggled to make a cake with my 4 year old due to sleep deprivation this week. Fully exploiting anything seems a recipe for disaster right now!

When I did drive fast, I found it was the same buzz as biking. Just with higher consequences. 15 miles an hour over some tricky rooty off camber bit was just as thrilling (for me) as a peak district twisty b road at the speed limit. If I got the biking wrong I'd probably bounce and the bike would be fine. If a tractor was coming the other way in the car there would be significantly more consequences.

Alway good to see and hear people enjoying their passions.

That wee car you converted looked awesome. I'm curious to see how your 911 ends up 😀

You can’t drive them fast on the road unless you want to risk losing your license, and they aren’t cheap to run.

An mx5 will give you the roof down enjoyment of a rwd car, without the license losing ability, or cost of ownership. It might not have the badge, but who cares if you are enjoying yourself?

This.

Had two 911’s, 993 and a 996. Technically they were the girlfriends, but I drove them just as much as her. Running costs were minimal. They were always our second car so didn’t have to rely on them…..not that we had any major issues in about 5 years of ownership. These were both company cars so owner ship costs were covered under warranty. Alternator issue and an issue with water ingress on the soft top 996.

MPG wise, going back a few years but absolutely fine and far better than my AMG Merc.

Before the Porsche I had a TVR Chimera, the Porsche was a far better daily driver. It could be used in all conditions without any thoughts it was going to jump into a bush. And I have to admit, it was nice to have the speed should we want to drive quickly, but I found the 911 was a relaxing place to be and we didn’t really drive it to its maximum…..one caveat…..we lived on an island with a maximum speed of 40mph, so most of the driving was A and B road pootling. We did head over to the continent quite a lot, but again most of the time we drove sensibly.

Ive had other expensive cars, even relatively new cars of the same ilk as a 911, I would be budgeting about £4k a year for running costs.

There’s some amazing info and experiences here, thanks for posting all.  Right now I need to digest that; I’m not in a position to buy but I want to have enough info that I can credible rock up at a meet/club/showroom and engage in the beginnings of an enthusiasts conversation.  <br /><br />

WCA thanks for the offer I would absolutely love to come and have a coffee with you and look over your car, I’ll drop you a PM - I’m in London so its and easy journey and just the thought of being so close to one fills me excitement.  Interesting what you say about the Merc becuase I’ve been thinking about changing my always-driven-in sport-mode 320d to a C43 as a daily. In all practically terms that sounds very stupid (I have been endlessly watching 340i touring reviews), but I’m harking for the sound, the feeling, the power of owning something a little special without the attention and theft risk of RS ownership.   I suppose my perfect daily is a significant estate for getting the bikes to places in.

Anyway, we are now fortunate to be a debt free family so with some job wobbles I’m hesitating to get on any kind loan scenario ever again, hence the longer term plan.  

When I was 19/20 I experienced that after the company owner I worked for sold up and threw a party for the employees, he let me sit, start and experience his new grey / red leather DB9.  It was a special moment, and I want one of those moments for myself when have the means to do so.  It’s isn’t the thought of blasting around country lanes irresponsibly, it’s about the experience of being in one, owning one, and taking care of it as best I can.  Sometime I might choose just to give it a wash and sit and stare in my old age 🙂

What about a db7 then?

I had a fast A8 and have driven a few other fast Audis and was somewhat underwhelmed. Yes they look and feel solid, yes they will through you back in your seat under acceleration, but they are pretty dull to drive. The A8 I had was big, fast, comfortable, loaded with every bit of kit the original buyer could find to tick on the options list but still sent me to sleep. My wife loved it as a a passenger. The Mercedes CL600 that followed was another land yacht but felt nicer to drive as you felt you were at least partly involved in the process. This is probably my wife's favorite car I have owned - mine is probably still the DC02 Integra Type R.

I did look at an Aston DB7 but, although beautiful, it looks like I styled and built the interior - need a sat nav? Nick a square one from Volvo and stick a bit of shaped plastic with leather glued on to the top so it almost matches the facia, but not quite. Repeat for switch gear and most other fixtures and fittings. I also tried a Jag XKR Supercharged but couldn't get through the door comfortably. Reminded me of some American cars - how do yoiu make a car so big feel cramped?

I'm a lifelong car lover and honestly I've gone off them. The last fun car I had just sat there doing nothing but it did attract a gang of burglars to my house twice.

If I was looking for something entertaining I'd buy a mk3 MX5 and go as high up the BBR path as budget would allow. Preferably at least a turbo conversion. No one looks twice at an MX5 and as a machine for driving you can't do much better without going to extremes.

One other suggestion Kryton - book a session at the Porsche Experience at Silverstone. I've done s couple (911 and most recently a Cayman GT4). Superb place, posh food, brilliant service etc as you would expect and the cars, well... Obviously they will be new but will give you chance to experience the car without limitations on their handling circuit. You will of course become even more obsessed!
Take a look at the brochure link here as the website is undergoing an update

https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/porschedrivingexperience/

My advice - buy a fun car while you can still get in one.
No point waiting till your 60's when your knees/back may be knackered and you have to crawl out of it! 🙂

What he ^^^ said too.

I have cocked my body up is some many novel and exciting ways that I can't bend my back/neck enough to get in a nice Ferrari. I can stand/walk enough to push a Lotus down the hard shoulder. I can't drink or take enough cocaine to drive a Pagani through Paris.

Old age sucks.

If you’re wedded to the idea of a combustion engined sports car, a nicely sorted MX5 will cause you a lot less stress than a Porsche or any flavour.

When I read posts like this, all I can think is:

I'd really like an Ilya Repin to go over the shoe rack in the hallway.

If you really must get a picture, why choose an expensive Repin? This painting by Jack Vettriano also depicts people on a beach, and it'll cost 1/100th of the amount.

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

Nothing to add as im not a petrolhead (cars) but when i rocked up once to 10 Under The Ben (10hr race), some guy had a 911 with a double bike roof rack (and with the bike still on it). Id been reliably informed by one of my mates it was a really good 911 😀

So where id the bike rack going? If your getting a convertible, not on the roof.... 😀

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

A painting that hangs on a wall doesn't have running costs and potentially life alteringly expensive failures.

986 Boxster owner here. On the right day its amazing. Quite a lot of the time its just a car. Sometimes its a complete PITA and I resent the time and money it soaks up.

I'm lucky enough to live near some open well sighted roads with nice corners, but even then, getting dry AND deserted tarmac for more than about 20 seconds at a time is a very rare thing, so you never get any flow going. 3rd gear doesn't really come on cam until 50mph and redline is well past any speed limit in Europe. And there's 3 more gears to go.

The handling is lovely(especially since getting it fettled by Center Gravity), but again - how often can you actually stuff it through a corner hard enough to make it worthwhile? The tactility of the experience does show quite how rubbish most modern cars are. Being able to read the texture of a manhole cover through the brake pedal is quite a thing.

Yes you can just pootle in it and its still enjoyable, but it tends to involve summer evenings, sunsets, top down, maybe a decent meal in a pub. How often do you do that now? And if you don't - are you suddenly going to start chucking £100+ at an evening drive (with meal attached)? And there's always the temptation to unleash the madness that comes at 4k+rpm. "Just going for a drive" seems increasingly wrong in the current day, so you need to add a purpose to that, which cuts down a lot of the usage potential of a 2 seat soft top - you can't get an 8x4 of plasterboard on it!

The Boxster is quite practical - boots both ends - we've done weeks away in it very comfortably, and its very liveable with cruising on the motorway. I slightly wish I'd got a Cayman so I could carry a bike on the roof, but then no top down, which was one of the big selling points for the missus.

I do most of the maintenance myself - The majority of the "they all do that, sir" have done that (sir), but I do get a specialist to do the servicing to keep the history going. Parts costs are weird. Some big bits are quite cheap. Others are !!!HOW MUCH!!! for a plastic screw??? I guess it costs me £2-3k a year to keep on the road inc insurance, tax, tyres etc. So a couple of weeks skiing, or a full on bespoke mountainbike holiday. You pays yer money and takes yer choice!

We've done NC500 (just before it properly took off and became detrimental to the area), a week touring Normandy and next summer it should be taking us down to the Alps for a week's mountaineering. After that, we'll have to see.

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So where id the bike rack going? If your getting a convertible, not on the roof…. 😀

Posted 9 minutes ago

Didn't @chipps have a boxer with a bike rack that he sold on here?

^^ there is an exoskeleton type frame thing that you get (not cheap!) to put a roof rack on a boxster, but I believe its not the quickest thing to put on and off, and its ****ing hideous. (also not sure if you can fold the roof with it fitted - could be wrong)

Another Boxster owner here (a 986 though) - similar experience to JonEdwards - 90% of the time I love it - have a local garage that know what they are doing with it for reasonable money (and they let me store it under cover there) but sometimes it can be frustrating - the weather we've had lately means I'm just starting it up and running it for  while but the summer is great - drives to a nice pub, weekend tours (the 2 boots hold loads of stuff).

Am in no rush to get rid of it but have wondered wether an older S3/RS3 would be a better fit though - looked at other options before I bought the Boxster - a 3.2 Audi TT came close but the MX5s I looked at were either more than the Boxster or rust buckets. Overall I love it - not a sensible choice but TBH my 3 MTBs would cost a lot more new than the Boxster cost me!

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

The is STW. There are only 2 car options, which only vary by the question being asked, Octavia and MX5

The is STW. There are only 2 car options, which only vary by the question being asked, Octavia and MX5

Octavia is out of style now, I think it got too sporty. Berlingo is the vehicle of choice.

My experience is I bought a Ferrari to make some cheeky money, lost my shirt on it as bought at a terrible time and the market went elsewhere.  I wouldn't have minded but really got no joy from driving it.

I guess what I'm saying is make sure you really really want it (that track day seems a good idea, as is itching the scratch now while you're in good health)

that track day seems a good idea

Not sure I'd agree. The rule "don't track what you can't afford to lose" applies

My dad bought a 993 cab when he retired, although this was after several years in a mk3 MR2 and a Fiat Coupe before that. Not so many trackdays now, but between the Porsche Club GB and their local motoring club there's lots of stuff to go to or get involved with if that's your bag. I think if I had something like that my stage in life I'd never use it. At least 911s mostly make a good daily driver if you don't need to carry too much stuff.

Dog travels OK in theirs on the shelf behind the front seats when you fold down the rear seat backs.

It's had plenty of work done to it, engine rebuild, suspension refresh, new hood etc but that's all cost less than the rise in value. Buy the right thing and it needn't be expensive overall to run for a few years.