Not sure where all the woe is coming from. Against all expectations here and elsewhere we made the final, for heavens sake, could have got an equaliser in the last minute (ball headed off the line) ! I wouldn’t have picked Kane either, but I’m not the manager ?♂️
One of the greatest of his generation, Cristiano Ronaldo, missed a penalty. Doesn’t really matter how the goals get scored, point is they do, and he got as many as anyone else.
My ill informed tactical analysis – 3 center backs and wing backs pushing high would have left a lot of space for Spain’s wingers, who were a lot more dangerous than previous opponents. Having the wing backs sit deeper would probably mean starting an extra defensive player, which is a hard call to make. The 5 in previous matches looked like it shifted to a 4 quite fluidly anyway with Saka and Walker playing down the right.
In my ill informed tactical opinion, one way to stop the wingers having a free run is to keep them occupied chasing back at overlapping full backs. A couple of times Saka and Walker combined really well (second time iirc Saka didn't play Walker in - wrongly) and we ended up having to chase back. Sure it is a risk but if you just hand possession to a team like Spain then they'll do you in the end.
You have to make them at least answer your questions, and in the way we played against the press, and the way we stopped taking risks going forward meant we didn't ask enough of the right sort. The only consistent one we seemed to ask was whether they could defend against a palpably unfit, immobile 9
Spain were clearly the better team & they deserved to win. However, if the second Spanish goal had been offside (& there was only inches in it) & the header off the line had gone in, Gareth Southgate would be a genius. Fine margins.Such is the the way of football. England did OK & got to the final. Only one other team did.
Hmm at the end of the day it was 2-1, and as above, 2nd goal offside and one of three headers in that melee had gone in we'd be in a different place.
Seems like most people would like to start crashing out to Iceland at the quarters again...
Southgate has won more knockout games than all the other England managers since 66.. combined. But still it's woeful and antifootball
You have to make them at least answer your questions, and in the way we played against the press, and the way we stopped taking risks going forward meant we didn’t ask enough of the right sort. The only consistent one we seemed to ask was whether they could defend against a palpably unfit, immobile 9
Yeah I don't think it was a good performance overall but neither side produced much in the first half. Problem was Spain adapted and England didn't seem able to.
i’d be on the phone to Roy Keane to get some advice
Because he was such a successful manager?
Seems like most people would like to start crashing out to Iceland at the quarters again…
Or crashing out of the World Cup at the earliest opportunity. Short memories in this thread...
Classic stuff by Spain to come absolutely racing out of the blocks straight after half time, we could have taken the initiative.
After they scored I thought the only way your going to get past them is quick breaks, the two banks of 4 were so adept at closing down we could have sat there all day, we scored off a quick'ish break before they got set up.
Kane is not quick enough but we have the players who are, give yourself some options - being brave has been mentioned a bunch of times but it's that.
We have to break this hoodoo, I think when we do we'll realize it's not impossible and expect to win rather than run around being scared of losing
I've heard a couple of things that it wasn't as happy a camp as it has been in the past. Obvs in a tournament with a 26 man squad some players will have limited or no game time but some rumours of almost being excluded from a bit of a core set of players.
And also some jealousy or whatever the right word is at Bellingham. Came into tournament on the back of the season he had at Real Madrid, TBH he disappointed me a bit overall, but in a sparkling 45 mins at the start of game 1, and of course that moment against Slovakia, got loads of good press. There was a bit of petulance at times on the pitch but he's 20 - the running at the cameras shouting 'Who else!' is a fine margin - you want supreme confidence in your ability but if you feel a teammate is getting favourite treatment then it can wear a bit. I heard he was added to the senior players group....not sure that's right, you want tournament nous in that, not raw talent which is for the pitch.
I don't know if I believe it - I know there's shots of Gordon looking glum at not being called upon for example, but that is natural, he was player of the tournament for the U21's a year ago and in the 5 mins he got showed some quality. And at the end yesterday Bellingham was around consoling everyone like a leader. This was Southgate's big strength, in the squad cohesion, the togetherness.... I hope they haven't lost that and he or whoever else they replace him with can get that back.
Because he was such a successful manager?
I was on about Mainoo and Rice getting tips on moving the ball through midfield.
An article in the Graun about that throw in I was grumbling about earlier. It was the 75th rather than 85th minute. But it still felt symbolic:
So Southgate's gone - not sure who will replace him. But I predict the same level of abuse from the media.
Glad he's gone - but nervous about who they get in - fingers crossed it won't be someone like Lampard or Gerrard
I would just like to take this opportunity to be the first to say that the new manager is a dribbling cretin without an ounce of football nous. He needs to go!
Klopp?
Who the hell would want the job?
Get into back to back finals and the latter stages of other tournaments and get dogs abuse for your troubles. You'd have to be an absolute masochist!
Who the hell would want the job?
What's it paying? I'll have a go at it
Who the hell would want the job?
£5 million a year?
I think if smug Eddie is prepared to leave Newcastle then the FA will go for him, but I've said for a while that I think Graham Potter has been lined up to replace Southgate. Mainly based on the fact he's turned down so many jobs since Chelsea and just seems like he was waiting for something (could just be enjoying the pay off from Chelsea though). He's definitely a better coach than Southgate, if you look at their club record, and tactically Potter is pretty good too. Though I do wonder how well some of his sometimes leftfield decisions to play players in odd positions will go down though.
If the FA want to appoint an English manager then I think it’s going to be a Head Coach from the Championship.
Eddie Howe and Gary ONeil are unlikely to be interested and Steve Cooper has recently joined Leicester.
The only other coach who knows the players and the Premier League who’s available is Poch but again, why would he be interested?
Edit, I forgot about Potter, I think you’re probably right.
Get Nigel Clough in - he's got great form in polishing turds! 🙂
Yes he has gone finally, enjoy your knighthood Southgate and your Millions thanks for all your work.
Klopps having a rest before the Germany job. All fule no that. Pep - no chance - not interested., and he won't get the time to mould them to what he wants to do. What's Potter doing?
I’ve heard a couple of things that it wasn’t as happy a camp as it has been in the past.
Looked pretty good to me. One of SOuthgates big wins has been that the camp hasn't been as cliquy and disjointed, unhappy as it has been in the past when there have been big splits based on team, N vs .S, race..
FA may well promote Lee Carsley (currently England U21 coach), just like they did with Southgate - and obv they were very happy with the end result of their decision to do so.
Potter has been out of the game for too long and hasn't proved much beyond producing patterns of pretty play without an end product. Sure, he didn't have the players to finish off those moves, but IMO he should have taken another role last year and proved his credentials.
Howe is a good shout, certainly more progressive than the man departing.
There's logic to doing everything possible to entice Klopp to take it now or Pep to take it next summer. Both options would surely elevate our team to the top tier.
I expect it'll be Potter. It felt like the right time for Southgate to move on, maybe the haters will come to realise that overall he did an excellent job. Geoff Hurst thought so, anyway.
Eddie is my guess.
Steve Bruce.
Neil Warnock is a shoe in !
Southgate did a great job in building a team spirit (although there does seem to have been some leaks that was more PR than reality) and it is hard to imagine anyone could have dealt with the external pressures around taking the knee and the political attacks that brought any better.
However he was tactically so far behind even average managers, he is just another ex international regurgitating the training he did as a player without any knowledge of the patterns of play he needs to develop with the players he has.
I think it would be a good idea if they made him some kind of director of football at the FA to take the external pressures off any new manager, just let them get on with the job of coaching the team, IMO that would/could work really well.
The FA probably want Howe but will appoint Potter for no other reason that he’ll cost a lot less. Newcastle will want a lot of money in compensation to release Howe from his contract.
Steve Bruce
After watching England over the last few weeks I was beginning to think it was Steve Bruce in a Southgate mask, exactly like watching Newcastle before Eddie Howe took over
Big Sam has served his time on the naughty step, Shirley?
tomhoward has it - time to bring back one of the old masters; in addition to Allardyce, other contenders are Hodgson and McClaren.
Potter has been out of the game for too long and hasn’t proved much beyond producing patterns of pretty play without an end product.
Blimey he's only been out of a job for just over a year. Makes me feel a bit weird sticking up for him but, in the last 6-9 months he was at Brighton it finally seemed to click, we won something like 7 out of 9 games at the end of the 21-22 season and took us to our then highest league finish of 9th and then the start of the following season we won 4 drew 1 and lost 1 and were 4th in the league before he buggered off to Chelsea. He even started well at Chelsea pretty sure he was unbeaten before we got our sweet revenge and battered Chelsea at home before the wheels fell off.
Was always going to happen, Southgate is a nice bloke, but just doesn't seem to get the best out of the resources he has, it's no slight, as many international managers seem to be the same, look at Deschamps in France, and Germany these days.
I just think that there's a lot of decent 25 or under players for England just now, some of the old guard are on the way out, a new manager might make it easier to make tweaks with Kane and so on, rather than feel it's letting down his core players.
Not sure where he'll go now, international to domestic never works that often, could he be the new face of commentary somewhere?
back to ordering pizzas wearing a brown paper bag?
Big Sam. Its been a week for miracle comebacks.
How about Roberto Martinez. He’s got form in failing with talented squads - the Belgians and now Portuguese.
Thomas Frank should be the answer.
but just doesn’t seem to get the best out of the resources he has, it’s no slight, as many international managers seem to be the same, look at Deschamps
Hasn't he won a world cup ? Though they also had the same problem as England in that they couldn't get the attack working properly.
I'd bear in mind that if the FA appointed a manager with a similar record to the Spanish (which has worked out well) the pundits, papers etc. would go mental.
Why do they have to be English?
Doesn't have to be but it's preferable, especially for a country with a big history and a big league system.
It really isn't necessary though.
That is such a parochial attitude.
