The Stewards decision is really quite odd, isn't it? You can see the Lewis slowed and would have been able to make to corner and to take the lead if Max had made ANY attempt to make the corner at all. He didn't even start to brake until he was almost at the apex, he knew that he'd either spear into Lewis or force him off. Lewis backed out as he had room to do so and there was no collision.
Max would've caused a collision if Lewis didn't back out a little. They ruled no fault.
In the mirror oposite of this at silverstone, lewis is on the inside (with more of his car alongside Max than Max had in Brazil) and max goes full tilt around the outside and doesn't back out of it, but continues, not braking, but turning in, causing a collision.
Max did cause a collision because he chose not to back out of it a little and Lewis was found to be predominantly at fault.
Which rule is it?
I think your allowed to make repairs and minor aerodynamic changes under Parc Ferme rules once the car is released from scrutineering.
RickDraper
Full MemberRB have worked on the rear wings before the race in all of the last 3 races.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/what-is-behind-red-bulls-rear-wing-troubles/6762903/
That only talks about Mexico and USA too? Was published before Brazil: "While the next race in Brazil can throw up some challenges for teams, the circumstances that triggered the wing problems for Red Bull in the USA and Mexico are unlikely to resurface there."
Are people referring to gurney tape as it’s often called?
I always assumed it was allowed to be added under parc ferme as it seems to be a regular occurrence.
Or am I confusing it with something else?
Sorry, can’t let this one pass! DC one of the worlds greats?!?! Seriously
No, he's just third on the list of 'most wins without a title'🤷♂️
bluearsedfly
Free Member
Or am I confusing it with something else?
Gurney Flap? Don't think i've heard of Gurney tape
@mashr- watching Ted's Notebook post Brazil he confirmed yes, RB had to repair the rear wing again under parc ferme. Same issue as the US and Mexico and to do with the snubber apparently.
That is weird, can probably ignore the Austin issue but odd to have the same problem at Mexico and Brazil
Gurney Flap? Don’t think i’ve heard of Gurney tape
Yes, gurney tape as in applied to the trailing edge of the rear wing.
I’ve heard of a gurney flap and aero tape but could have sworn I’d heard gurney tape mentioned previously.
Sorry, can’t let this one pass! DC one of the worlds greats?!?! Seriously? 😃😃
He is certainly working hard for his red bull cheer leader salary at the moment
cheer leader salary
I held my nose and bought a month of Now TV to see me to the season end. DC has been dreadful MW better, but it was getting to be too obvious. I presume Turn 4 was a “racing incident”, naturally?
Gurney Flap played a live set on Marc Riley's show last night
. I presume Turn 4 was a “racing incident”, naturally?
Of course! It was funny to listen to it live on the radio, where everyone was 100% in agreement that it was a penalty, then see the C4 highlights - DC was the only person (apart from Horner) who said it was fine.
Apparently the stewards "couldn't get" on board footage from Max's car when they made their decision.
Apparently the stewards “couldn’t get” on board footage from Max’s car when they made their decision.
No but Masi has said that they've requested the forward facing camera and 360 footage to review post race. Still possible that Masi wants to "say hi" to Max again 😀
Who do they get it from? I assume F1 not Red Bull. If Red Bull I imagine it'll be "lost"?
The commercial rights holder owns all the TV footage and releasing it will give them a load more airtime/views/hits so expect they'll release it as soon as they can.
Masi has the same footage as every armchair official. As I said “dog ate my memory stick” incoming… and a five point fine and relegation to third. Perhaps.
Just read a Hamilton interview...he doesn't think it should be a penalty tho I suspect he may be saying the opposite of he hadn't won!
Alfa have announced Zhou as Bottas' team mate for next year, which completes the grid. Until everyone starts speculating on someone (usually Alonso) quitting mid season.
He's not exactly excelled in F2 but I guess the marketing value of a Chinese driver will be worth a fair bit for Alfa. The €30m he's reportedly bringing can't have hurt either!
Alfa have announced Zhou as Bottas’ team mate for next year, which completes the grid. Until everyone starts speculating on someone (usually Alonso) quitting mid season.
Has Hamilton announced he's moving to Ferrari yet?
If Alpine's 2022 car is rubbish I think Alonso will walk. No point staying while Renault try and polish a turd.
He’s not exactly excelled in F2
He's second with a few rounds still to go and has 2 or 3 wins hasn't he? That's not too shabby. he's also a F1 test driver IIRC. But yeah, It won't hurt the marketing to have the first Chinese driver in your team.
He just didn't bother trying to make the apex. It'd be more telling to see the telemetry regarding steering inputs and his braking point on every other lap of the race at that corner...
For me it shows that Max was never going to make the corner at that speed, but he'd have known that anyway. So instead of slowing to make the turn he keeps his speed, runs wide and gives Hamilton the choice of crashing or bailing out of the pass.
Can they get Albon to try it a few times to see if he gets round the corner?
He just didn’t bother trying to make the apex.
And yet he managed it every lap prior. I wondered what it was about this lap that made him run so wide...
It’d be more telling to see the telemetry regarding steering inputs and his braking point on every other lap of the race at that corner…
Yeah this.
Also INAF1D but wouldn't you expect to see more steering applied at the turn in point rather than the exit?
And yet he managed it every lap prior. I wondered what it was about this lap that made him run so wide…
claims his tyres were going
Also INAF1D but wouldn’t you expect to see more steering applied at the turn in point rather than the exit?
He starts turning more as soon as he's finished braking. I think he's understeering at that point so more input probably wouldn't have helped. One for the telemetry
Just racing innit! 🙂
Max does momentarily hold his wheel stationary in the middle of the turn to run wide. He's careful not to put in any opposite lock, but he does hold it still longer than he should if he had any intention of staying on the track. That plus his intended late wide-arc.
I have to say, that looks ok to me…
Yeah me too, he's obviously braking a lot later than he normally would've done, but you can clearly see he's fighting it and heaving on the steering wheel to try to get it to turn. I think the stewards called it correctly on the day.
I think the stewards called it correctly on the day.
You can bet that if Hamilton had done that to Verstappen, RB would be on the radio demanding penalties for Merc.
The fact that they were straight on the radio saying "it's just racing, it's all fair" indicates they knew that it was right on the edge of fairness and legality anyway and there was always the possibility that the stewards might decide that way...
One rule for them...
You can bet that if Hamilton had done that to Verstappen, RB would be on the radio demanding penalties for Merc.
Oh sure, without a doubt, I think even Horner said he would told his Sporting Director to get on the blower to the stewards. I think we're all aware of how RB operate. But, once all the dust has settled from the weekend, this particular incident looks to me at least like two guys racing hard.
You'd have to be a lot more informed about the performance of F1 cars the I am to make any firm conclusions about intent based on that video.
Clearly, he:
1) brakes too late
2) is going to miss the apex by a country mile and doesn't really try
3) is understeering on the exit of the corner
The question is how much he anticipated what would happen. I'm going with 'completely' but it's surely impossible to prove? But also isn't the rule that you can't run people off track, regardless of intent? In which case surely Max is guilty?
There's a thread on Twitter by Alex Brundle which goes into it in some detail (including that they BOTH braked 10m later than before)
Have you got a link? That would be great to read..
It looks like exceeding track limits to gain an advantage, same as braking too late into a chicane and going straight through.
But stewards may have decided that neither of them was going to make the turn from there, and just left it at that.
Far be it from me to question Alex Brundle but surely when you're on the outside line you can brake later because the turning circle is greater offering more grip?
Perhaps what he meant to say is that Hamilton's braking was perfect and he would easily have stayed on track, whilst the driver on the inside would have had to have braked earlier than the driver on the outside in order to make the apex.
We've all learnt this the hard way when cornering on our bicycles.
It also helps if you turn the steering wheel before you get to the corner rather than once you're nearly off the track. He didn't start steering until he was off the racing line and on the dirty (slippery) side of the track. Had he tried to steer whilst he was on the bit of the track with rubber laid down then the tyres would of found traction and he'd have made the corner, (albeit in second place).
You don't need telemetry to work this one put, anyone whose ever ridden a bicycle can tell that Verstappen deliberately got that corner as wrong as he could in every possible way.
I have to say, that looks ok to me…
Yeah, racing incident.
They both braked later than usual and Max just understeered wide.
Lewis was never going to go around the outside on that lap either.
Putting Red Bulls moaning to one side, this is one of the closest seasons in years. These guys just need to race it out wheel to wheel.
You have to read his replies to other Twitter users' questions to get all the info....but it's clear he thinks it was fine. I'm not aware he has any links to Redbull and probably knows more about driving cars fast than all of us put together! (Apologies if anyone here is a proper racing driver)
Mercedes have asked for a review. The biggest problem now is that if they try and add on a 5/10 second penalty the RB will just say they were cruising so that isn’t fair…… which then starts is heading to court, possibly after the season
Verstappen deliberately got that corner as wrong as he could in every possible way.
Perfect summary. Whether it amounts to a punishable breach of the sporting regulations I don’t know.
Mercedes have asked for a review. The biggest problem now is that if they try and add on a 5/10 second penalty the RB will just say they were cruising so that isn’t fair…… which then starts is heading to court, possibly after the season
Looking at the rulebook it seems that if the penalty is after the end of the race they can go up to 30 seconds time penalty or a grid drop of any number of places at the next event.
The grid drop would obviate the whinging about time penalties and I expect merc would prefer that option too, as it gives bottas another chance to hold max up/put him in a crash or bail position. If only bottas could work out how to defend his position...
Thanks for the link, that was some intetesting reading!
I’m not buying that the tyres were gone line, Max clearly makes every apex before and after going wide.
For me it’s the lack of steering input until he’s sailed past the apex and got on the marbles.
Whether or not it’s worth a penalty now I’m not sure, I’m inclined to say move on to the next race but what happens next time?
I still don’t get why it’s taken this long for the footage to surface, every other angle from every other car is usually available instantaneously.
