Not sure how he avoided a penalty for his “defence” against Lewis either.
I wonder if anyone’s asked for Horner’s thoughts on his objections to Hamilton’s line through Copse after Silverstone:
“Hamilton braked late and overshot the corner. He was travelling at such a speed that he was never going to make the apex of the corner and his trajectory through Copse meant he was never going to miss Max, even with braking he ran very wide”
Familiar stuff?
One of the key differences between Max and Lewis seems to be that Lewis is smart enough to understand that crashed cars don’t win races.
Mercedes have determined that the ICE is degrading and are replacing only that. Seems fair. The same options are open to every team afterall.
I thought the idea of the penalty was to allow for levelling-up - reducing the cost of a season and therefore allowing the smaller teams to compete? If the penalty isn't harsh enough then the wealthier teams can simply spend around it.
That certainly was an exciting race to watch. And a sublime drive by Hamilton. He was helped a bit by the safety car but I feel that only brought the inevitable a bit closer. I admit, I do have a soft spot for Hamilton so am conscious to try not to let that cloud my view of the race. I do think that MV is quite the bully on track and feel that the thin line between "hard racing" and "gamesmanship / bullying" is one he crosses more often and easily than others do. The second overtake that Lewis pulled on him you could sense that MV was going to let the car drift wide and Hamilton would do the sensible thing of not fighting it. So I could see him going off track, but then, when the camera panned out and we could see how far off the track both Hamilton and MV had gone I find it staggering that the stewards didn't give a penalty. The weaving was pretty bad but I'm not sure that Hamilton as close enough for it to prevent him overtaking, but it did smack a lot of desperation and intimidation. On the whole, it really does seem as though Merc were treated quiet harshly this weekend and I am quite chuffed that they came through it with the win. Interesting that apparently Horner was on the blower to race control as soon as MV had pushed Hamilton wide saying "this is just hard racing, let them race".
On the other hand, I'm liking Vettel more and more this season. He seems to have grown through the arrogant stuff from his latter days at Red Bull and the clearly troublesome times at Ferrari and is a lot more relaxed and funny. Found his radio commentary about "touching Hamiltons rear wing" quite amusing.
One of the key differences between Max and Lewis seems to be that Lewis is smart enough to understand the fairly simple fact that crashed cars don’t win races.
TBH, I think stuff like this is inevitable when two drivers are in close competition for the title. I do think Max should have had a penalty, but I understand the thinking behind "let them race". The stewards made their decision, time to move on.
The problem for me isn't so much what Max did, it's that Horner and Red Bull are so over-the-top about their complaining when things don't go their way. It's a team's job to support their driver, even when they are at fault, but most teams know that you moan a bit on Sunday afternoon and then just get back to work on Monday. The Red Bull Silverstone thing just made them look like fools. Now their driver has made the same mistake and they don't seem the least bit embarrassed about it.
I’m curious about the reported fact that Red Bull were allowed to work on their rear wing in parc fermé. Haven’t seen much detail on it yet, but on the face of it, it seems extremely odd in light of Hamilton’s penalty.
I’m curious about the reported fact that Red Bull were allowed to work on their rear wing in parc fermé.
Yes, the whole thing with both Red Bull's and Merc's wings is very strange.
That was in Mexico. They saw a problem, asked permission to fix and it was granted. Different to qualifying with a car that fails regs and then fixing it for the race
Also remember that both Mercedes and RB did the same in Austin as the track rattled their cars to pieces
And the lack of onboard from Verstappen's car when he forgot to turn left.
TBH, I think stuff like this is inevitable when two drivers are in close competition for the title. I do think Max should have had a penalty, but I understand the thinking behind “let them race”. The stewards made their decision, time to move on.
Oh, of course it’s inevitable—it’s just surprising that in the context of having the fastest car in race day Max would still rather come to blows than bide his time whereas Lewis will stay in the longer fight instead of going all-in one one corner.
I didn’t personally think it should be a penalty (nor, it seemed, did Toto) but I do agree with Coulthard’s view that it was “playing his joker” and not something that could be repeated without penalty. It was quite clearly a deliberate move rather than a loss of control from over-optimistic braking.
The slightly curious aspect is that, if I recall correctly, Max had already made his weaving move that had earned him the black and white flag; but I forget whether they’d actually made that decision by the time they chose not to investigate the main one.
In any case, it was all good action in the race, and it was pleasing that there were no interventions from the stewards.
That track’s certainly seen its fair share of classic races. One of the great venues on the calendar.
“Hamilton braked late and overshot the corner. He was travelling at such a speed that he was never going to make the apex of the corner and his trajectory through Copse meant he was never going to miss Max, even with braking he ran very wide”
Familiar stuff?
Familiar and yet also quite difference. Hamilton would have probably made the corner at Copse - admittedly with no room for Verstappen on the outside (except for the massive tarmac run off)
Vertappen was nowhere near making Turn 4 within track limits. So either he made a mistake that was bad enough to force another driver off track (he's makes mistakes under pressure) or he's deliberately pushed a rival off track to try and prevent an overtake (he's a cheat)
Has to be one or the other.
Ah, hadn’t realised the Red Bull wing thing was Mexico.
Different to qualifying with a car that fails regs and then fixing it for the race
That’s not quite the case, though, is it? I thought they qualified with a car that passed that test in scrutineering but was then found to be marginally beyond the limit after qualifying…? I got the impression that Mercedes even notified the FIA that there may have been an issue but were denied permission to check it. But I may have misunderstood the post-race chatter in the small hours of the morning.
I think the best answer to Max's cornering technique and weaving was that Hamilton still passed him, and went on to put 10 and half seconds into him at the finish.
Job jobbed despite all the fun and games. Got to give a boost to the Mercedes team and make RB think about what a task it will be to beat Hamilton after being handed a massive advantage, and still get beaten.
On the other hand, I’m liking Vettel more and more this season. He seems to have grown through the arrogant stuff from his latter days at Red Bull and the clearly troublesome times at Ferrari and is a lot more relaxed and funny. Found his radio commentary about “touching Hamiltons rear wing” quite amusing.
This. I never liked him when he was at Ferrari, he seemed massively arrogant but he's mellowed greatly at AM. Seems genuinely funny and likeable now. Stuff like helping out litter-picking in the stands post-race and cycling to the circuit (even in the rain!).
Caught a brief bit of the new Top Gear last night when he was on and again, he seemed pretty chilled out with a good sense of humour.
"Hindsight will probably show that regardless what happens in the championship. The performance yesterday will be the thing that people remember. So in that way he has kinda already won"
Very much this. At the end of the day all the shenanigans only make the win more delicious. Just like Turkey in the wet and that 'stardust' quali in Singapore Hammy delivers another astonishing performance. It's where the greatness comes from rather than the number of titles accumulated.
Pretty sure Max has used up all of his FIA get out of jail free cards, he won't get away with a stunt like that again this season without incurring a penalty. The stewards are now under more scrutiny than Max himself and will be obliged to act next time or else risk bringing the sport into (Even more) disrepute.
I think Vettel would be the ultimate Top Gear host, his humour is so Monty Pyton. He would bring what Clarkson bought to the show without the dodgy bits. His routine would be like a 'woke' Benny Hill, he knows how to play a British audience like a fiddle.
Don't know if they could pay him enough but you know it makes sense.
and went on to put 10 and half seconds into him at the finish.
And Bottas was <5 seconds behind Max. Just to rub in the implications of a (retrospective) penalty...
It’s where the greatness comes from rather than the number of titles accumulated.
In fairness, I think Max has had some of those—including at Interlagos—and will no doubt have more. There’s no doubting Max’s greatness as a driver. It’s just that he’s so pugilistic on-track that it’s quite reasonable to have a variety of views on that. Personally I’m largely fine with it. Where I draw the line is outright dirty tactics and underhandedness, which is why I never liked Schumacher other than that one weekend of Spa ‘91. I’ve not seen Max edge into that territory yet; for me his edging over the line comes more in the form of being literally pugilistic off-track as well—presumably his Dad’s genes coming out.
“ I think Vettel would be the ultimate Top Gear host, his humour is so Monty Pyton. He would bring what Clarkson bought to the show without the dodgy bits. His routine would be like a ‘woke’ Benny Hill, he knows how to play a British audience like a fiddle”
Agreed - he’s a big fan of British culture and comedy IIRC.
I reckon getting to the point to win the WDC and staying there probably made Vettel into something he wasn’t and now he’s more relaxed he’s being more “himself”. I really couldn’t stand him at one point but my wife and I are both agreed in liking him a lot now.
Classy from a RB mechanic. No idea if this is true, but Autocar are reporting the Audi have bought the entire McLaren group
and went on to put 10 and half seconds into him at the finish.
I wouldn't read too much into that gap. Agree that Hamilton absolutely had him this weekend, but I'd imagine RB then turned the engine down as far as they could get away with once they knew the race was done
And Bottas was <5 seconds behind Max. Just to rub in the implications of a (retrospective) penalty…
IMO unless it's dangerous or the result would be altered by cheating/avoidable accident, I'd prefer it to be dealt with via super licence points. I assume he'll get some if the full data shows this wasn't avoidable? I was surprised they announced no investigation so quickly though, even if it looked inevitable that Hamilton would take the place back.
Agree with the comments on Vettel above too.
bluearsedfly
Free MemberClassy from a RB mechanic.
/blockquote>
Oh come on 🙄 he’s using the “stick of truth” on a Lego car, lighten up
Classy from a RB mechanic.
I thought it was quite funny
The Audi - McLaren news is bonkers (assuming it gets confirmed). Not sure if McLaren-Audi F1 works for me
Yes Bez,
The fact that Verstappen hasn't had a team mate who can come anywhere near him shows how exeptional he is as a driver.
The rivalry has a man vs boy narrative arc running through it, you know there's going to be a movie made about this somewhere down the line (I'd have Seb's character narrating it!), Max is unwittingly making himself a villain for the ages!
He looked wounded and surprised when the crowd turned on him, he and Red Bull have been riding high on the historical Hamilton hate this season but I think the broader tide of public opinion is beginning to turn in Hamilton's favour as he's shown maturity by playing 'rope a dope' with the young pretender.
A lot of it depends upon who you have in your corner mentor wise and both have been spoilt in this regard but spoilt in different ways leading to different outcomes.
The Audi – McLaren news is bonkers
What news? There is speculation galore, I haven't seen anything that would qualify as news.
As per the tweet on the last page, Autocar are certainly claiming its happening
Autocar are certainly claiming its happening
Autocar are claiming "a source" said it's happening. Until the companies make an official statement it's just speculation.
Yes, that's why I wrote
assuming it gets confirmed
@mashr- RB seemingly did some work on their wing at this race too...
Oh come on 🙄 he’s using the “stick of truth” on a Lego car, lighten up
Not sure what a stick of truth is, but RB seem to bring the Victor Meldrew out in me.
This is so enthralling - it seems like both drivers want this WDC more than any other. Lewis because 8 titles would solidify his GOAT status, and you kind of imagine he might do something else once he's achieved that. Max, because he knows that even if he were to win the next 5 or 6 WDCs, this will always be 'the one where he was up against Hamilton'. They'll make Hollywood films about this in 30 years' time.
I can't be anything other than cynical about Max's driving at turn 4, though (and the stewards' response). It seemed like Max was being extremely reckless in the full knowledge that he'd be favoured if they both had to retire, which is dangerous not to mention unsporting. It was extremely similar to what happened at Silverstone, and HAM got a significant penalty there (although, clearly came off better ultimately). But I'm no expert in these things, not even an armchair one.
I am looking forward to the Max footage coming out. He’s claiming now that his tyres were gone
@mashr- RB seemingly did some work on their wing at this race too…
Interesting, any other details floating around on this one?
I am looking forward to the Max footage coming out
Well you either turned the steering or you didn't. Should be pretty unequivocal really. and I don't believe the stewards had real-time steering sensor information for the decision. "The dog ate my memory card" is coming from Horner 😉
One, potentially delicious, option is that somehow Lewis wins this year's WDC title and MV goes on to be "the greatest driver never to win a WDC". With the regulation changes next season and George Russell coming into Merc this may turn into the season that was the best chance MV had to win one.
Sure, being realistic about it, the chances are good that MV will win multiple championships but I'm not sure he will get to 7 or 8.
“Penalty for what?” says Horner:
“If it had been the other way round, I’d have told my sporting director to have a moan about it, but I wouldn’t have expected to get anything from it.”
MV goes on to be “the greatest driver never to win a WDC
Already has the most wins without a title, 19 for MV, 16 for Stirling Moss and 13 for DC.
More than quite a few champions.
MV has won as many this year as Mansel did in his dominant 92 season, obviously a few more nowadays
Is saying something is "wholly inaccurate" the same as saying it's not true??
been talks of this over the last week, all parts of the VW group have abandoned F1 engine projects and teams. The engine will stay the same for a while, but suspect if it goes ahead you may find 2 parts of the VAG group in F1 eventually..
Interesting, any other details floating around on this one?
I do recall Horner being interviewed prior to the race, I can’t remember what was said exactly but I’m fairly certain Horner confirmed RB had carried out some work to the rear wing of one of the RBs due to ‘reliability issues’.
Cancel that. Just found the clip and they were discussing Mexico pre quali.
Horner said the RB rear wing was worked on pre quali in Mexico under parc ferme, followed by a miffed Toto complaining Merc couldn’t do the same this week.
RB have worked on the rear wings before the race in all of the last 3 races.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/what-is-behind-red-bulls-rear-wing-troubles/6762903/
MV goes on to be “the greatest driver never to win a WDC
Already has the most wins without a title, 19 for MV, 16 for Stirling Moss and 13 for DC.
Sorry, can't let this one pass! DC one of the worlds greats?!?! Seriously? 😃😃
