https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52745643
Teachers back to work in June with pupils having phased return with a mix of online/in class work.
Can meet other people from other households keeping social distancing.
In addition, people will be able to travel - preferably by walking or cycling - for recreation, although they will be asked to remain "where possible" within or close to their own local area.
Excellent news. Plenty of time for teachers to plan and get things organised for a part time return to classes after the summer hol's.
Sounds very familiar.
In addition, people will be able to travel – preferably by walking or cycling – for recreation, although they will be asked to remain “where possible” within or close to their own local area.
Doesn’t sound particularly enforceable.
Game on.
Hopefully Wales will follow suit shortly, our Schools are in-line with English schools in terms of terms and they're "hoping" to have some back this year.
“small groups” could do with a bit of refining
Oh, and I could rreeeaaalllyyy do with seeing some info about nurseries
Sounds very familiar.
Aye, just coming into line a couple of weeks after England, as predicted. Golf being allowed again will put a lot more people onto the shared paths around here, as the courses have been choc full of doggos recently.
Edit - are Greggs open in England?
Sounds very familiar.
Thankfully, this isn't a contest and seems to be the way things are happening everywhere to reduce lockdown...
But the English one was criticised about a week ago. Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
Teachers back to work in June
I wonder what that means. Teachers have been working but teaching/ setting/ marking and communication from home. I wonder if it actually means back working on site.
But the English one was criticised about a week ago. Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
Big difference is kids (apart from key worker kids) are not going into school until August in Scotland rather than from 1st June in England.
robbo1234biking
SubscriberBut the English one was criticised about a week ago. Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
The english one was largely criticised for being confusing, and being too early. Scotland doesn't seem to have the huge amount of the virus in the population as England does, so it might work out different. We'll see I guess, still seems quick to me.
11th August for pupils - and on a part-time basis.
And that's only on the basis that each Phase of lockdown lifting goes ahead supported by ongoing reductions in cases.
Doesn’t sound particularly enforceable.
No, but they are banking on some people breaking it but most people doing what they're asked.
“small groups” could do with a bit of refining
Phase 1 is one other household, outdoors only, still distancing.
It said school kids transitioning - from nursery to P1 and from primary to secondary - would be prioritised. Thank Christ - someone else can have a shot at looking after my daughter (due to go to school in August)!
It would appear that magic tennis balls are also available in Scotland.
Phase 1 is one other household, still distancing.
But also “in small groups” so big families can/can’t meet up? Don’t think it’ll affect me but it’s still vague
No, but they are banking on some people breaking it but most people doing what they’re asked.
She also stated that “rule #1 still applies”
It would appear that magic tennis balls are also available in Scotland.
Not like those evil gates in Englandshire....
Sounds very familiar.
Apart from the very different timescale, the fact that they have committed to allow industries to have time to plan ahead (e.g. under this phase construction can plan and organise without full opening of sites, schools can allow teacher back on site for preparation etc) and the fact that Nicola ended with a nice gentle version of 'dinnae be breaking Rule No.1, or I'll wind the lot of ye back in.'
Thank Christ – someone else can have a shot at looking after my daughter (due to go to school in August)!
mrs_oab is next to me planning EY transitions into school for her LA....
But the English one was criticised about a week ago. Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
The English one was largely criticised for being confusing, and being too early. Scotland doesn’t seem to have the huge amount of the virus in the population as England does, so it might work out different. We’ll see I guess, still seems quick to me.
As I understand it, Wales and Scotland have a different set of Challenges to England. Because of our sparser Populations the Virus didn't spread as far or wide. You could argue that lock-down came too late for England, but not for us.
The challenge here is similar to the one New Zealand faced, it's possible, even with people travelling for work from others parts of the UK etc that we may eradicate the Virus, but unlike NZ if we lifted the Lock-down here, there would be a sudden influx of People from denser populated parts of the UK causing a local second-wave (you might even argue a first wave)
By waiting a few weeks for things to come more under control in England (and dodging 2 BH weekends). Makes that less likely.
Also, lets be Honest, if you were part of the SNP in Scotland, or Labour in Wales any opportunity to show the Tories in England to be reckless and more concerned about Money than People wouldn't be wasted.
Northwind
Scotland doesn’t seem to have the huge amount of the virus in the population as England does, so it might work out different. We’ll see I guess, still seems quick to me.
Seems like most the UK is about the same and Wales for whatever reason is higher.
Cases
England 260/100,000
Scotland 271/100,000
Wales 404/100,000
NI 245/100,000That's according to the NY Times
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/united-kingdom-coronavirus-cases.html#states
lockdown came too late for us as well. No doubt but hindsight is 20/20 We have had at least as high infection rates as England have we not?
From what I have seen folk are sticking to the rules / applying them sensibly here by and large - compared to what I have heard of in England
Seems to me like this roadmap is reasonably clear and thus hopefully easier to stick to
Sounds very familiar.
...apart from the addition of a weeks notice and the 48 page explanatory pamphlet explaining the detail of what she just said.
But also “in small groups”
Ah- this bit?
Massive difference is scotland can't go travel wherever they want for excercise. have to stay in own local area. as well as this there are extremely clear rules and timeframes for each step and announced well in advance. I dont think its that 'similar' in this regard
@scotroutes
Page 39 under "Seeing family and friends"
More outdoor activity permitted – such as being able to sit in the park, as long as physically distanced.
Meeting up with another household outdoors, in small numbers, including in gardens, but with physical distancing required
Doesn't say whether it's 1 other household or 1 other household at a time though.
The thing I don't see mentioned in this thread so far is that in the first phase the travel for exercise is described as:
Permitted to travel short distances for outdoor leisure and exercise but advice to stay within a short distance of your local community (broadly within 5 miles) and travel by walk, wheel and cycle where possible.
So massively more restricted than England.
So massively more restricted than England.
It's almost like it's a well thought out easing of the restrictions, rather than a free for all...
It’s almost like it’s a well thought out easing of the restrictions, rather than a free for all…
I think there's quite a lot of room between the travel free for all in England and stay within 5 miles of your house for another 7 weeks minimum in Scotland. It's not really a relaxation at all.
so its OK to drive 30 miles to hit a wee white ball but not to drive 30miles and cycle somewhere
Seems like most the UK is about the same and Wales for whatever reason is higher.
Cases
England 260/100,000
Scotland 271/100,000
Wales 404/100,000
NI 245/100,000
Reported cases only really reflects testing though.
That link also included per capita deaths:
DEATHS PER 100,000
England
57
Scotland
40
Wales
39
Northern Ireland
27
I'm personally happy with taking a slightly more cautious approach
It would appear that magic tennis balls are also available in Scotland.
Thankfully, this isn’t a contest and seems to be the way things are happening everywhere to reduce lockdown…
Tell that to Jimmy Krankie, she berated the hell out of the 'English plan' and said we're doing our own thing because the English plan is irresponsible.
Then caves and realises it wasn't such a bad plan and the best thing to do is align them because its better for the public and the science advise is the same received for all 4 nations (SAGE advises them all).
Seems like most the UK is about the same and Wales for whatever reason is higher.
'We' had been told it was because we were so hot on Testing here in Wales... certainly at the start it looked as if Newport was a huge hot spot of Covid, but it proved not to be the case, we just tested more there.
Looking at the data now though, it seems the 'Deaths by 100k' figure is pretty high in Wales too.
Massive differences per region though, some of the more remote places have very low figures.
so its OK to drive 30 miles to hit a wee white ball but not to drive 30miles and cycle somewhere
I'd be astonished if at least 90% of the population of Scotland didn't live within 5 miles of a golf course.
Where did you get 30 miles from?
It's all being done fantastically better in Scotland obvs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52747041
I don't think anyone is really listening. Once England's rules relaxed that was it as far as Scotland was concerned from what I could see.
next door is a member at Aboyne golf club 29.4 miles from house to GC. Therefore can I drive to Aboyne and ride there?
Tell that to Jimmy Krankie, she berated the hell out of the ‘English plan’ and said we’re doing our own thing because the English plan is irresponsible.
Phase one isn't much different what we actually have the now. That is totally different to what England have done.
p.s. really mature calling the first minister Jimmy Krankie.
next door is a member at Aboyne golf club 29.4 miles from house to GC. Therefore can I drive to Aboyne and ride there?
Therefore he can't drive to play there would be the inference i would have taken.
If I was a member at Augusta National then it wouldn't be OK for me to get on the next plane to Georgia, would it?
A line needs to be drawn somewhere and, in this case, it's a circle of roughly 5 miles radius.
Larry_Lamb
Tell that to Jimmy Krankie, she berated the hell out of the ‘English plan’ and said we’re doing our own thing because the English plan is irresponsible.Then caves and realises it wasn’t such a bad plan
Any idea how pathetic that opening remark makes you appear?
The point is that Scotland (and Wales) had no alternative but to follow the English "plan" because we cannot close our borders. Otherwise you may have seen a very different approach.
The WHO have a very different assessment of the First Minister's strategy than your Daily Excrescence newspaper.
I'm already getting quizzed at work about what the '5 mile' guidance really means.
Nicola did say that further guidance will be given in the next week before the 28th and that the 28th did depend on numbers continuing to reduce.
Certainly the 'take on the street' here and the press seems to be you can now drive up to 5 miles to take your exercise. Though she obviously was saying she'd prefer you to still stay local and cycle and walk, and also to minimise time outside. I'm expecting many people to take it as I will drive 'my 5 miles' to fish, golf, walk etc.
It sounded reasonable to me - a more measured, cautious adaptation of the English plan with the continued (very sensible) lockdown on construction until a proper plan can be developed.
My main question has been raised above - when it refers to socialising with one other household, is it the same household you have to socialise with every time, or can you socialise with different households, one at a time?
Sensible guidance on the travelling to excercise - it stops everyone in Glasgow rushing up to Loch Lomond the weekend after next.
Greggs open in England?
No but the factory has been doing test run in preparation.
But the English one was criticised about a week ago. Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
Yes it was and now it seems in Scotland it’s fine because they’re giving a bit notice.
next door is a member at Aboyne golf club 29.4 miles from house to GC. Therefore can I drive to Aboyne and ride there?
Please keep off Aboyne golf course. Some of us are running through there...
Yes it was and now it seems in Scotland it’s fine because they’re giving a bit notice.
It's being done differently though. A gradual relaxation of the rules, rather than England's "you can drive wherever you want to do whatever you want".
A line needs to be drawn somewhere and, in this case, it’s a circle of roughly 5 miles radius.
where do you get this 5 mile radius from?
Tell that to Jimmy Krankie, she berated the hell out of the ‘English plan’ and said we’re doing our own thing because the English plan is irresponsible.
Misogyny aside, it's quite different to the English relaxation, as explained above.
There's little difference in the new rules but it's crucially got a period of notice so that workplaces and schools can draw up plans, see what works and pull things back if infections go up or things cannot be implemented. This is a huge difference compared to what Boris did.
I hope Wales follows the Scottish lead on this, preferably after the bank holiday is done.
where do you get this 5 mile radius from?
From when I was watching the announcement on TV and she told us we could only go roughly five miles from the house. It's in the document she published at the same time. Page 39
where do you get this 5 mile radius from?
Scot Gov COVID framework
Page 39: Phase 1 is : "Permitted to travel short distances for outdoor leisure and exercise but advice to stay within a short distance of your local community (broadly within 5 miles) and travel by walk, wheel and cycle where possible. "
richmtb
Reported cases only really reflects testing though.
Do you have any current data for the number of tests carried out in each country? I couldn't find anything up to date at all.
If you have to walk or cycle that’s not travelling to exercise, that’s exercising.
Page 42 Sport, culture
and leisure
activities
Unrestricted outdoors
exercise adhering to
distancing measures.
Non-contact, outdoor
activities in your local
areas e.g. golf, hiking,
canoeing, outdoor
swimming, angling.
So hiking and outdoor swimming in and around the suburbs of Aberdeen it is then, hoping that the local neds adhere to the non contact mugging rules
So if you live in England can you drive to Scotland now? What does the actual legislation say?
It’s interesting that it’s being interpreted as “travel up to five miles to start your exercise” rather than “stay within five miles of your house during your exercise”. The latter would be an increase in restrictions rather than a decrease for many.
Also, bear in mind that there aren’t so many roads in bits of Scotland. Staying within five miles of your house is very different in the highlands compared to Glasgow.
So if you live in England can you drive to Scotland now? What does the actual legislation say?
You can drive to the border and then you have to stay within 5 miles of it.
So if you live in England can you drive to Scotland now? What does the actual legislation say?
You can drive to the border and then you have to stay within 5 miles of it.
Yep, pretty straightforward eh? 🙂
Staying within five miles of your house is very different in the highlands compared to Glasgow.
Assuming the majority of people play by the rules, your chances of meeting someone who's in a position to either infect you or enforce those rules is similarly remote.
That's why it says "broadly" and "local area" to allow for a bit of leeway in enforcement.
Of course, nobbers will take advantage of that.
You can drive to the border and then you have to stay within 5 miles of it.
Only if you live right next to the border. It's five miles from your house. Broadly.
Delivery may be better with Scotland but the concept is the same.
Only in so much as its a gradual lifting - the detail is very different ie stay local not travel where you want to.
I'm guessing the 5 mile thing is for 'leisure journeys'. Plenty will be driving further than that for work. In my new house I'd starve if I could only travel 5 miles - that or chase the local sheep around with a bit of ambition and lust in my eyes.
Also, bear in mind that there aren’t so many roads in bits of Scotland. Staying within five miles of your house is very different in the highlands compared to Glasgow.
As ever, the guidance has been written by people in Edinburgh / Glasgow who don't realise that there is a population outside of cities. 'local area' can have a very different meaning to people in rural locations. I, for example, have been driving 20 - 25 minutes each way every week throughout the 'lockdown' for food because that's where my local supermarkets are. To confuse things even more, the journey includes crossing the border in to England. I consider all of that, and more, my local area.
The miles seems to be advice. Yeah good luck with that.
the miles seems to be advice. Yeah good luck with that.
I for one will not be sticking to that. I'll maintain social distancing and be very sensible and discrete but I am quite definitely going to drive further than that for a decent run in the hills. I'm quite happy to go back to work and face whatever risks there are there but I resent being told simultaneously that I can't engage in my much safer leisure activities.
Yes, it does smack of rules designed in and for the central belt.
I suspect that everyone is going to start driving to exercise on my local hill now, which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't go there at busy times anyway. I'd usually stick the MTB in the car and drive the 30-50 miles to get somewhere remote where I can ride all day without seeing a soul. But that's still not on, so do I join the crowds on my local hill or don my hair shirt and ride round in circles near my house feeling all virtuous?
Very good spin. Ignore the guidance. How responsible
You do understand its about giving a simple message? If everyone does as you do then there is no point in any distancing or any policy to ameliorate this
rover[pig - a bit of imagination? We have been finding stuff to do near our house - mainly walking not cycling but its astonishing what you can find away from the crowds with a bit of imagination
Lucky - thats fine hence the "local area" which as yo rightly say is different in different parts of the country
Very good spin. Ignore the guidance. How responsible
Disapprove away. Your disapproval flows off me like water off a duck's back. My actions will bring no risk to anyone so my conscience is clear.
If everyone was in a position to do and did exactly what I will be doing there will be no issue whatsoever.
Yes, imagination was fun for a couple of weeks, but I guess my imagination is not as great as I thought 🙂
I tell you what TJ, I'll cycle the 30 miles to where I was planning to run and that will make everything OK because I haven't driven and the recommendation is about driving!
Spin - that is not the guidance. The guidance is clear. Stay local "broadly" within 5 miles no matter how you travel.
Your actions do increase risk and why are you so special that the guidence does not apply to you?
its really simple - if everyone ignores the guidance then lockdown will have to be reinstated because infections will rise. If you can drive 30 miles to exercise then why can't everyone?
To be fair to Spin, what the 5 miles is trying to do is stop what is happening down here with the well known tourist hotpots getting deluged. If only those from 5 miles or closer had been allowed to get to Perrenporth beach yesterday for example there would not have been the 500 hundred people all trying to use the beach and a queue 50 long for the toilet. What its is not trying really try to stop is an antisocial sod finding somewhere to be antisocial - that's more of a byproduct.
I think the main thing is if you are going to go rogue in an attempt to be on your lonesome (rather than get to go to a hotspot) you do it with a bit of stealth and you don't pop it on social media (or here).
I write this as someone in the very fortuitous position of having solitude out of my front door and I know how lucky I am.
Your actions do increase risk
How? I live in an area with very low rates of COVID-19, I'd be staying within the NHS/local authority area, I would be going to places I know to be very quiet and in all probability meeting no one and I would not be using any services or interacting with locals.
I think the main thing is if you are going to go rogue in an attempt to be on your lonesome (rather than get to go to a hotspot) you do it with a bit of stealth and you don’t pop it on social media (or here).
That's exactly what I intend to do, I'm just venting a bit at this point! From an access to outdoor activities point of view this 'relaxation' essentially represents a minimum of another 7 weeks of the status quo.
@Spin I get it your heading in the opposite direction to the crowds but so will a lot of people.
I'll bet there's not one person here who isn't tempted and who couldn't build an case for why it's different. But really, is that how it works? We either hope most folk are "sensible" enough to follow broad advice. Or we say **** it, it's not designed specifically for me because I'm different so I'm doing what I want.
Good point @convert I've pretty much stuck to the rules so far, but still have Strava set to private. I'll make my own decisions about what to do next and listen to all sides of the argument, but will refrain from talking about specifics I think.
Welsh version is here:
https://gov.wales/unlocking-our-society-and-economy-continuing-conversation
Came out a week ago and everyone ignored it
Nothing changes till next week.
Stay home, stay safe, don’t be a dick is still the message in Scotland.
Oh and teachers are working very hard if my kids schools are anything to go by.
It's like nobody has read the actual guidance. Oh wait, it's STW, of course they ****ing haven't.
If you had bothered you would see they recognise there are geographical differences and there will not be a one size fits all approach. It's all there in the very easy to read and understand PDF.
5 miles radius seems a bit crap but then they've never defined 'local area'. As for being in a low infection area, that's great until you're the one that dragged it back with you through some unforseen event.
All seems quite sensible. Remains to be seen though if the general population shares the same trait. Potentially another 7 weeks to wait before putting the bike in car to take to decent trails.