Well, the nobber has lost me 2.5% on the value of my pension in the last couple of weeks, so that will be a no to any US products from now on.
American voters to a large degree voted in the last US presidential election fully aware of Trump's first term in office.
I think they were fully aware of how great he said his first term was, I think there's a difference between that and being fully aware of the realities of his leadership.
Gosh, Americans are that stupid?
Trump is truely economically illiterate. Not only that, he clearly has absolutely zero understanding of global supply chains.
Furthermore, Trump appears to be living in the 60s, when manufacturing required a large workforce. He doesn't understand that when manufacturers onshore, they won't be building factories like they did back in the day, they'll be building factories run by AI and automation. There won't be any jobs to be had.
I think this provides a plausible explanation regarding Trump's motives
https://news.sky.com/story/trumps-tariffs-are-about-something-more-than-economics-power-13341209
the nobber has lost me 2.5% on the value of my pension
Pretty much the same here. Which might be tolerable if it were many months or several years in the future, but I was planning to realise it as an annuity sometime in the next few weeks. Looks like that idea is going to have to go on hold for a bit. As ever, he's a ****.
Don't know if this will appear behind a paywall (it hasn't for me) but in reference to the comments made in the link on the previous page :
https://www.ft.com/content/0431ef42-7386-4e19-935e-a06ae40f474c
Few of them have moved to retaliate. In an attempt to reduce its 20 per cent tariff, the EU is instead prepared to cut the $235.6bn trade surplus it racked up in 2024 by buying more US goods and lowering some tariffs.
Brussels has offered to drop car tariffs of 10 per cent to Washington’s level of 2.5 per cent, said officials briefed on the talks. It could also increase energy purchases, buy more American weapons or join US actions against Chinese product dumping.
Edit :
https://archive.is/2025.04.03-204522/https://www.ft.com/content/0431ef42-7386-4e19-935e-a06ae40f474c
Edit 2 : The archive link doesn't work but should do if the article is copied and pasted in there
Gosh, Americans are that stupid?
Your choice of word, not mine. It's been done to death, but I think Trump voters have been lied to, just like Brexit voters were - it's the constant unchallenging media platforming and lack of accountability for those lies that is the problem.
Which might be tolerable if it were many months or several years in the future, but I was planning to realise it as an annuity sometime in the next few weeks. Looks like that idea is going to have to go on hold for a bit. As ever, he's a ****.
Imagine how you'd feel if you were a USA'n and you were forced to realise your full 401k pension fund in the middle of a Trump-crash!
Then the pandemic happend and funnily enough all the austerity of the past decade evaporated in a few weeks and governments spent trillions propping up jobs, businesses and other stuff like the past decade never happened
We all saw that but we all saw what followed, national debt skyrocketing , tax take collapsing and a surge in interest rates and inflation that followed, hitting the poorest hardest
It would be lovely if that could be avoided but Im still waiting for MMT proponents to explain how ?
Trump has gone full MGDA- Make the Great Depression Again
(Sorry, that didn't need to be said twice)
It's been done to death, but I think Trump voters have been lied to,
So they are all suffering false memory syndrome from Trump's first term in office, but they are not necessarily "stupid"?
And you think people in the UK know better, despite the fact that more than 50% of voters in the US voted for Trump?
Yes Trump is a liar, that is an undisputable fact. It doesn't however mean that American voters don't know what their experiences were during Trump's first term. If they found a job after being unemployed for a period of time, or saw their wages increase in real terms, or were lifted out of poverty, or/and saw friends and family members experience the same, then that is likely to have affected how they voted.
@pondo your comments reminds me of these words written 120 years ago by Joseph Rowntree:
Seems he was right.
...he also said:
I hope those who come after me will do their best to maintain the purity of Elections in York. For this end it may occasionally be necessary to prosecute offenders or to lodge petitions against the return of those who have been elected through corrupt means.
So they are all suffering false memory syndrome from Trump's first term in office, but they are not necessarily "stupid"?
I don't know - for the second time, "stupid" is your choice of word, not mine. But they were lied to before, during and after his first term, and they've been lied to before and during his second term.
It's ok if we hold different opinions on this.
It's been done to death, but I think Trump voters have been lied to, just like Brexit voters were - it's the constant unchallenging media platforming and lack of accountability for those lies that is the problem.
The problem I see is that it wasn't unchallenged, they just found a way to instantly dismiss any challenge they didn't like. For the US everything they don't like is "Fake news", for us it was "Project Fear".
Whenever I brought up anything anti-brexit it was instantly dismissed by it's fans, with no real evidence, as being project fear.
The problem I see is that it wasn't unchallenged, they just found a way to instantly dismiss any challenge they didn't like. For the US everything they don't like is "Fake news", for us it was "Project Fear".
Whenever I brought up anything anti-brexit it was instantly dismissed by it's fans, with no real evidence, as being project fear.
That's very fair, and I would totally agree. But I think the media has also allowed some untruths to be platformed loudly and regularly without there being any challenge - not to go all misty-eyed, but you think of a well-briefed Dimbleby or Paxton eviscerating any politician that wasn't equally as on top of their own brief, then contrast that with the simpering, kow-towing of Kuensberg and Mason.
Its not just that the media failed, its that there are so many alternatives. Joe 'horse tranquiliser' Rogan is a primary source of news analysis for millions, including in the UK- his podcast is the most popular in the UK & USA
Im not sure how you deal with someone balls deep in trumpland and happy to spread misinformation so readily
But they were lied to before, during and after his first term, and they've been lied to before and during his second term.
I think most people are fully aware that Donald Trump is a liar, including most Americans. In fact it is probably his single most definitive characteristic.
Which is why I am not convinced that American voters would believe Trump if he told them that they were personally better off during his first term and it was in complete contradiction to their own personal experiences.
Sure some people might believe him in the same way that some halfwits probably believed his nonsense about bleach and bright lights during the covid pandemic, but do you think most Americans did?
Known liar wins election after lying - I think that's why he won. Do I think most Americans believe him? No, most didn't vote for him.
It's ok if we hold different opinions on this.
Do I think most Americans believe him? No, most didn't vote for him.
Well I'm glad we have cleared that up! Although that wasn't the question, it was do you think that most Americans believed his nonsense about bleach and bright lights with regards to covid?
But anyway yes, we agree, the majority of Americans are perfectly capable of filtering the nonsense coming out of Donald Trump's mouth,
So if their personal circumstances were worse during his first term than he claims then they would be fully aware of that.
It's ok if we hold different opinions on this.
Thanks for reminding me.
Although that wasn't the question, it was do you think that most Americans believed his nonsense about bleach and bright lights with regards to covid?
Do I think most Americans believe him? No
Sorry if that's not solely answering the question you asked, I don't think most believe him about whatever specific point you care to land on.
Thanks for reminding me.
Since we're broadly in agreement but it feels you want to argue the point anyway, I thought it worth repeating.
Are we even sure Trump actually knows what import tariffs are 🙂
i’m pretty sure I’ve seen reports of him say it’s fake news about reporters going on the street and explaining that the foreign country exporting into ‘Mercia doesn’t pay it and it gets passed on to the importer and then to to the man in the street doing the buying.
TBH why would normal people be aware of the mechanisms of international trade, Brexit after the fact educated a few more people in the U.K. but unless your actually work involves it or do your own personal importing.
The whole tarrif thing is fascinating.
Voters hadn't asked for it (global trade was nowhere on the list of voters priorities).
Congress would not approve it if asked.
The tarrifs chosen are purely based on bilateral trade balance (so totally arbitrary - may as well have done them based on number of letters in the name of the country).
It's Trump's personal idea which now has his brand stamped to it (so can't easily be unwound).
Has the potential to cause a global economic depression.
Trump's entire MO is he sees himself as a dealmaker (see - The Art of the Deal). Therefore this latest episode feels like he's looking to disrupt all US trade in a divide and conquer move, so that all the other world leaders are now queuing up cap in hand to try and make a deal with him.
Whatever they arrive at he'll then try and present as a win for him.
The whole tarrif thing is fascinating.
Interesting times for sure. I have no idea how this will play out. I don't really believe some of the more outlandish theories of Trump doing this to destabalise the US in order to sieze greater executive power or even stay for a 3rd term. I think it's simply a result of his transactional thinking applied to US trade with the rest of the world. Best case scenario is probably a gradual roll back after claiming they've done their job of rebalancing trade or gaining other economic benefits (minerals deals etc). Worst case is they escalate, cause a massive recession/depression which then degenerates into war. Personally I don't think they'll last long once the pressure of crashing markets and rampant inflation takes hold and starts to hit US voters in the pocket. Republicans are holding fast for now but they won't stand behind Trump crashing the economy for no apparent benefit.
It’s a funny one because any trade deal that the USA has negotiated , like NAFTA (which is why car/parts is split accross 3 countries) has just been decimated on a whim.
Theres no benefit in negotiating trade deals if that is how they treat them, so any U.K.-US trade deal is going to be worthless as any time anyone upsets el presidente in the bin it goes.
Agreed.
Plus, it's absolutely tanked some of the 'US' flagship brands - Nike, Levi's, Apple, Amazon, so wonder how much longer they'll be willing to put up with his nonsense before coming out with statements.
Anyway, while we've all been distracted by the tariffs thing, they've been coming for the National Security chiefs. Apparently for not being loyal enough to Trump. Which I'm pretty sure is not in their job description.
BBC News - White House fires National Security Agency chief
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgerl183j3o
Whilst the tariffs thing is interesting, what caught my eye today was the firing of the head of the NSA - based purely on the advise of Trumps Russian handler Miss Laura Loomer - a massive far right nutjob (though surprisingly pleasing on the eye - blatant Russian bait)..
Don is clearly a full on Russian asset, tasked by Vlad to bankrupt and destabilise the west, it's the only explanation 😉
Anyone else looking at their pension graphs today .
What an utter tosspot that man is
I wonder if someone who’s losing lots of money and has a better aim than the last one is thinking of a solution to all this?
Yeah agreed, I don't think trump will be immune to the economic fall out. Let's hope he's just done a Truss
Republicans are holding fast for now but they won't stand behind Trump crashing the economy for no apparent benefit.
My understanding is that pretty much everyone inside the Republican Party is now scared of Trump.
If you are looking for what motives Trump I reckon that the Sky News link I posted earlier is probably not far from the truth.
As a massive narcissist Trump undoubtedly enjoys the spectacle of foreign governments, friend or foe, queuing up to grovel before him. His tariffs seem to have guaranteed that.
He has already managed a similar spectacle with regards to the Republican Party.
a massive far right nutjob (though surprisingly pleasing on the eye
Hmm,may be time for that eye test.
Of course some folk love that Addams family look 🤣 🤣
I wonder if someone who’s losing lots of money and has a better aim than the last one is thinking of a solution to all this?
Unless they sort Vance at the same time it won't do any good.
🤷♂️
It’s a funny one because any trade deal that the USA has negotiated , like NAFTA (which is why car/parts is split accross 3 countries) has just been decimated on a whim.
NAFTA was renegotiated/replaced in 2020 by none other than Donald J Trump, which makes his current tariff agenda even harder to work out
Trump will flip flop on some tariffs for token concessions, he also promsied to deregulate as that was the other part of his plan to get jobs back to America, which means less worker protections etc which he has already started doing https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/28/trump-order-union-rights-federal-workers
hes also gutted the agencies that monitor workers rights https://www.npr.org/2025/01/28/nx-s1-5277103/nlrb-trump-wilcox-abruzzo-democrats-labor
But all this chaos is not appealing to businesses who want stability
I can see China doing well out of this, they will happily take investment and happy to play the reliable trading partner
They'll be loads of regular Americans looking at their 401k funds tanking who will be wondering what they voted for
Miss Laura Loomer - a massive far right nutjob (though surprisingly pleasing on the eye
Reminds me a little of Melisandre from GOT.
