[Closed] Does anyone not wear a poppy, and why?

I'm surprised by how many people don't wear them. Sad really.

I only managed to buy one on Saturday. It was the first and only place I came across selling them.

Me. I have major reservations about the way the campaign has shifted over the last five years.

I think it's pretty disgusting the way there's a huge witch hunt now over ANYTHING that is perceived to be "doing poppies the wrong way". For example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/10441144/Google-criticised-for-demeaning-tribute-to-Britains-war-dead.html

Last week the Poppy Appeal's official twitter feed included pictures of smiling young children in "Future Soldier" t-shirts.
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It's completely distant from my own personal feeling of what remembrance is.

I'm not "refusing", nor am I doing nothing personal to commemorate. I'm just choosing not to engage with the campaign itself in its current tone and form.

Here's one take on why: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2010/11/british-war-poppy-carnage

There's this too: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith

I don't. For numerous reasons, but really because I don't like being told when, where, how and for whom I should mourn.

Buy one and wear it, but there is an air of jingoistic patriotism creeping in which is quite unpleasant, there was the white poppy thing a few years back but Im not a pacifist as such so that don't help. not quite at the stars and stripes lapel badge state yet though.

I actually noticed a real lack of purchase opportunities this year, got one in Tesco in the end.

I have never worn one, never really thought too much about why not, just suppose I have never felt the need nor desire to.

However other Twitter users liked the design. David MacLean (@David_MacLean) wrote that criticism was the "equivalent to criticising someone for wearing a poppy instead of a massive poppy onesie and a poppy hat." [/*]

I'm not wearing one because I've got a load of different clothes on the go, it just so happens not to be on a garmet I'm wearing. Hope that is acceptable 😉

I wear one, in remembrance of all those who gave and continue to give so that we are free to make the choice not to* if our wish or desire is thus.

* or wear a white one, or whatever else others may choose to do instead. Even burning them, if that's what you think. That's what a free country is about.

I have never worn one, never really thought too much about why not, just suppose I have never felt the need nor desire to.

This.

Also, when do we remember the civilians needlessly killed in the recent, pointless 'wars'?

I do, but has to be said I'm half and half with the support of the Forces and the loss of Millions of innocent folk in any conflict we've been involved in.
For some reason I've been watching a lot of WW2 Documentaries recently and followed a series of programmes on Hitler etc. and jeeeze I've been rather moved by the total destruction of humanity that went on..
So I wear one, but I fold it in half (thereby looking "normal" but my little attempt at my private protest/thoughts for the innocent)
🙁

Having met the 3 people that were featured in this years poppy appeal posters plus many others over the last few years and heard their stories about how the legion has helped them i happily donate every year and wear my poppy with pride.
The Legion does a lot of good work and step in when people are desperate for help.
i take what i read in the newspapers with a pinch of salt having seen the positive effect of giving money to the legion.

@warton - I think the idea is that you remember them on rememberance sunday - the proceeds from the poppy appeal areraised, used and distributed by the British Legion and hence are primarily for ex-servicemen/women however the day/minutes silence and the poppy appeal are not the same thing and remeberance is for all killed in war including civilians

Also, when do we remember the civilians needlessly killed in the recent, pointless 'wars'?

I didn't buy one this year. I have some reservations about supporting unjust/ unnecessary wars. I have nothing but admiration for those at the front and have in the past bought poppies to support them.

I doubt anyone doubts the Legion's good work.

It's the Poppy Police on Twitter and in newspapers' letters pages, and rent-a-quote MPs loudly shouting that Google's poppy symbol wasn't big enough, and the TV programmes that feel forced to hand out poppies to keep up appearances (yesterday's countryfile had a beef farmer in all his dung-scooping non-finery, with a crisp poppy, filmed in what was clearly mid-summer judging by the leaves on the trees). It's also the sense of militarism and nationalism that it's being embued with - more "We love our armed forces" than about remembering the horrific death of millions. That's what's shifted in a big way in recent years, I think, and I find it really distasteful.

warton - Member

Also, when do we remember the civilians needlessly killed in the recent, pointless 'wars'?

Um, as I understand it, Rememberance Day has always been about remembering war and [i]all[/i] its victims, precisely so that its cost is never taken for granted.

Also, when do we remember the civilians needlessly killed in the recent, pointless 'wars'?

The poppy is just a badge, the important thing is to remember. If you choose not to remember those killed in recent wars (or any), then don't.
Nobody should feel obliged, do so only if it feels right, if you feel grateful to those who died doing the bidding of the country (and I'm not saying you should).

I've not worn one this year, not for any particular reason. I've donated money and I know that I have taken the time to remember. I don't need to tell everyone I meet that I've done so.

Sometimes I do, but I also think it's a superficial gesture for many people and - like bencooper - I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of enforced remembrance.

Also, when do we remember the civilians needlessly killed in the recent, pointless 'wars'?

I think we're supposed to forget about those.

🙁

Always give money but i've always chosen not to wear a poppy.

enforced remembrance

The museum at Auschwitz is a bit 'in your face' too i suppose?

I don't often wear one, but always remember and always donate. I'll often donate and not take the poppy unless I'm suited and off to work or going somewhere. Seems pointless and a waste of resources unless I'm out an about.

It's our acts and our attitudes that define us not our trinkets or appearance.

I doubt anyone doubts the Legion's good work.

It's the Poppy Police on Twitter and in newspapers' letters pages, and rent-a-quote MPs loudly shouting that Google's poppy symbol wasn't big enough...

If that's the way you feel, then I think your position is entirely reasonable.

I don't think [i]anyone[/i] should be harrassed or coerced into wearing a poppy. Indeed, if they are, then it's a sure way to undermine the true purpose of a shared commemoration.

I only wish that more people voluntarily gave thought to the purpose of Remembrance Day, and felt that they could enter into the communal act of remembering.

We have a new guy working for us from the states come over this week, he asked why everyone was wearing one. Is the poppy just a UK thing?

I wear one as a simple mark of respect. I observe silences for the same reason.

But I am always wary of anything that glamorises the true horror of war (BUT definitely not suggesting that poppies nor the manner in which we pay our respects around the date, does this). IMO this is not really the day to have this discussions but suffice to say that we sanitise war too easily and miss its true horror. War is a truly horrible and often futile exercise with grotesque and unnecessary losses of life all too often for unclear aims.

We should not shield future generations from its true horror but should protect then from allowing it happening again.

Thank God for all those who made the ultimate sacrifice. May future generations be spared this.

FFS

The museum at Auschwitz is a bit 'in your face' too i suppose?

By enforced I mean that if it's compulsory then it doesn't mean anything.

Do you understand my point?

I've always gone to the local memorial for the silence on the Sunday, and think it's important that we take our kids too. However, I didn't sing along with the national anthem to with the praising of God that sadly got included alongside it.

i always donate both my money and my thoughts on remembrance sunday/11th november. i haven't worn a poppy for a few years. no particular reason.

if you want to take part then do so. if you don't that is absolutely your right too. i don't think anyone should try to enforce their view on anyone else either way.

One problem I have is that it's a moveable feast. A remembrance of those who died in WWII and WWII is fine, though I'd prefer if those on all sides and civilians were remembered, but whatever.

What I don't like is how it's being extended to all veterans of all subsequent wars. The world wars were special, in terms of the numbers involved, in that most were conscripts, and in the carnage. Subsequent wars have been fought by professional soldiers and have not really been wars of survival - the soldiers in Afghanistan are not fighting to save or protect the UK.

And that little girl up there, wearing a "Future Soldier" t-shirt - that's just f***ed up.

It's not compulsory though is it?

You don't need a poppy to do it and you don't need to cry crocodile tears like the politicians but if you don't maybe take a moment to reflect (wherever and whenever that may be) on the deaths of millions people, many in the most horrible circumstances imagineable, then maybe that says more about you than the society 'oppressing' you into doing it

wors - Member

We have a new guy working for us from the states come over this week, he asked why everyone was wearing one. Is the poppy just a UK thing?

Nope. Canada too. If you haven't impaled yourself on a poppy pin, or dismantled the poppy to use the red bit as comedy 'lips', then you didn't grow up in Canada.

I don't wear one. The creeping jingoistic overtones, and the apparent incomprehension of Poppy's original meaning by especially politicians sending troops to fight in foreign wars, and the changes to the RBL funding and structures Mean to me It's become an embarrassing fig leaf.

Is the poppy just a UK thing?

Largely yes, although I'm sure that some other parts of the Commonwealth will wear them too but at different times e.g. ANZAC day in April.

It's not compulsory though is it?

It is if you're a TV newsreader, apparently.

I'd far rather encourage my kid to learn for themselves and think for themselves. Just about every churchyard and cemetery has some commonwealth war graves in it. It's relatively easy now with the internet to find out the story of any one of those young people's deaths, and to read and learn about the battles and campaigns in which they fell. I think it puts a hugely individual perspective on it: These were real people, often very young, with a whole childhood and young adult life snuffed out in an instant.

That's real, genuine, and (in my view) infinitely preferable to the "I AM CONSIDERABLY MORE POPPY THAN YAAOU" nonsense that goes on at the moment, which for me has considerably demeaned the whole thing.

It's not compulsory though is it?

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22not%20wearing%20a%20poppy%22&src=typd&f=realtime

Think it's bad just now? Just wait until all the celebrations planned for next year.

Saw a bus in Glasgow today, with a poppy sticker on the front.

I've always gone to the local memorial for the silence on the Sunday, and think it's important that we take our kids too. However, I didn't sing along with the national anthem to with the praising of God that sadly got included alongside it.

Why on earth did you need to make that last comment? We're talking about poppies and Remembrance Day, not religion. Does the fact that there is some religion still attached to some of our cultural touchstones really need remarking upon here? I mean, it's like asking about the use of 3D in movies, and feeling the need to make a remark about religion even it has nothing to do with your main point. And who would think of doing such a thing? Oh wait... 🙄

So they stand behind newsreaders at 11 o'clock and make sure they do some proper remembering? Or do you mean it's compulsory for them to wear a poppy?

Anyhoo this is a stupid argument, I don't like jingoism and I don't like revisionists saying rememberance is a military thing. And I certainly understand you not wanting to wear a poppy in light of some of the more recent political/patriotic goings on. but ithink you should do something for rememberance, but i can't make you.

So let's leave it at that.

I always donate and get a poppy, but the darn thing never wants to stay on and drops off,...I don't have a panic attack about going out without one one, I don't feel I need to wear it....I've given that is enough i feel and i observe the silences.

No, and not sure why really. Just never have done. Ignorance is bliss I suppose :\

Just wait until all the celebrations planned for next year.

We're suppose to celebrate the start of the slaughter? I'm holding off for celebrating it's end.

Why on earth did you need to make that last comment?

Because there have been a few [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/10/remembrance-sunday-cenotaph-church-of-england ]articles mentioning the religious involvement at the Cenotaph[/url] and it was a thought that occurred to me at the time on Sunday when there seemed to be a lot of praising of the Christian God going on, rather than remembering those of all faiths and none who have died in war.

I have no idea at all what you're on about with the 3D in movies or the 🙄 at the end, but the whole tone of your comment seems rather out of place on this thread.

So they stand behind newsreaders at 11 o'clock and make sure they do some proper remembering? Or do you mean it's compulsory for them to wear a poppy?

Certainly the latter. If anyone on TV dares not to wear one, the complaints flood in.

Which is why, as I said, you get Countryfile segments obviously filmed in summer*, where everyone is wearing a pristine (and presumably handed out by the producer) poppy.

*Unless Staffordshire's deciduous trees are still in full leaf in October/November, that is.

My biggest problem is that I get the feeling that the type of people who are the most ardent for people to wear a poppy would have been the same ones handing out white feathers during WW1.

My biggest problem is that I get the feeling that the type of people who are the most ardent for people to wear a poppy would have been the same ones handing out white feathers during WW1.

Spot on.

Let's try not to turn this unpleasant, especially today. But Mike I hope that you noticed that leaders of a cross section of religions played an important role at The Cenotaph as I am sure a lot of atheits and agnostics did too. So did representative of different nations etc. Perhaps your comments might need some adjustment

I don't wear one....not really sure why not.

Perhaps your comments might need some adjustment

I think the general tone of the thread is anti-thought police, not pro.

I am not suggesting otherwise. Merely pointing out that certain, specific observations may be slightly misplaced. Anyway enough from me, I don't want to be guilty of moving this thread in the wrong direction. There has been enough of that in the past 24hrs.

What I don't like is how it's being extended to all veterans of all subsequent wars. The world wars were special, in terms of the numbers involved, in that most were conscripts, and in the carnage. Subsequent wars have been fought by professional soldiers and have not really been wars of survival - the soldiers in Afghanistan are not fighting to save or protect the UK.

This is why I don't wear or donate any more. always observe the silence and use it to remember my Grandpa. Not that I'm excluding all those who gave their lives but it feels right to think of him as a representative. He survived the war by the way, and I'm just as grateful to those that did make it back.

miketually - Member

...there have been a few articles mentioning the religious involvement at the Cenotaph and it was a thought that occurred to me at the time on Sunday when there seemed to be a lot of praising of the Christian God going on, rather than remembering those of all faiths and none who have died in war.

I was at the Cardiff cenotaph yesterday, and there were Christian, Jews, and Muslims there leading prayers side-by-side. Same the university service today. We can rest assured, though, that the men and women who consciously gave of themselves in the two world wars would have been overwhelmingly Christian in this country. Mass migration, as we know it now, did not really start until after WW2; hence, the association of Christian practice with Remembrance Day. It would be entirely appropriate now, though, to include others.

I have no idea at all what you're on about with the 3D in movies or the at the end, but the whole tone of your comment seems rather out of place on this thread.

Sorry. I'm going to give up even trying to be funny. Woppit did this on his thread about 3D cinema. I assumed you might have read it. I alluded to it merely as a joke about the apparent irrelevence. Apologies for offence.

I don't wear one.
Why? I detest war, the military, weapons, and everything to do with it and would rather not remember it each year.. There are still ongoing wars, what do you wear to commemorate/acknowledge those? Nothing! And what good would it do if you did?

I hate politicians and all religions too. Those ****s start wars!

Edited.
Can't be fussed.

I never have. Just because someone has decided that's the way to 'remember', doesn't mean I have to join in.

We had 2 minutes silence before our Sunday league football game yesterday morning, perfectly oberved by all involved.

http://www.welshnot.com/history/welsh-military-remembrance-machine/

I didn't wear one this year - consciously and for the first time. I did donate and observe the silences. Personally I have deep feelings and regard for those whose lost their lives or health - whether civilian or service personnel. I am not sure that I like the direction and emphasis which seems to currently be prevalent regarding poppy wearing - some of which I have seen here too. I also am not comfortable with remembering only soldiers of the commonwealth, to my mind the remembrance of the fallen or our former enemies is also very important, and this isn't formally part of Remembrance.

I am very firmly against commemorating the start of the First World War next year and will not be taking part. Celebrating the end of the war is a completely different matter...

This is an interesting article from Robert Fisk of The Independent, posted on the Stop The War Coalition website

[url= http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead#.UoEXmnBM9Z6 ]do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead[/url]

Both my folks were in the forces and so whilst I do respect the sacrifices made by our armed forces (especially those that fought in the first and second world wars) I am a bit disturbed by the apparent fetishisation of the poppy that has taken place over the last few years. The BBC seems to be the worst offender with even the entire audience on A Question of Sport being issued with poppies in the episode I watched the other night.

My dad, who served with the RAF for 12 years, has never worn a poppy. He doesn't see the point.

Not sure Fisk is explaining himself clearly enough there, though I agree with his sentiments.

This article was much more interesting...
[url= http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/bbc-s-jeremy-paxman-told-to-apologise-for-calling-david-cameron-a-complete-idiot-on-world-war-i#.UoEaiye7QRY ]http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/bbc-s-jeremy-paxman-told-to-apologise-for-calling-david-cameron-a-complete-idiot-on-world-war-i#.UoEaiye7QRY[/url]

Three religions were present at our local service yesterday: CofE, Methodist and Salvation Army. But, this probably isn't the time or the place for this discussion

So you don't like Poppy's cause lots of people are promoting them? Let's face it the bbc has to fill its airtime somehow and unlike other commercial stations it is serving a public service and not pandering to the popular masses - god knows we see enough footballers, one D and lady gaga on more than enough of the other channels, so just switch channels if you don't like what the bbc are broadcasting. For me it's all about taking a few minutes a year out of my busy and pretty selfish life to reflect and remember and thank those who have made the ultimate sacrifice so I can enjoy my freedoms and bring my kids up in a world in relative peace and security - more peaceful and secure than it ever has been in human history for sure. And that peace and security has come at a very high price. So for me it's not about endorsing wars I may not agree with or politicians I may not agree with. I guess its different things to different people. At least we get a choice which is sort of the point. It's also a good charitable cause to support those soldiers returning from conflict who bear the physical and mental scars of the horrors they've been through.

@Miketually - we do the same, always attended the village remembrance parade and service at the memorial. As an atheist I don't participate in the religious observances or the national anthem. I always buy a poppy as my 2 grandfathers fought in WWI and my father in WWII, they lost lots of friends and I just feel it's appropriate to remember everyone who died both those in the armed forces and civilians on both sides.

This was an interesting move by Dan Snow: [url= http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1332656.ece ]http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1332656.ece[/url]

more peaceful and secure than it ever has been in human history for sure

Seriously, c'mon?

I noticed on Strictly that Len and someone else were wearing normal poppies and not the glitz-ed up fashion poppies that the BBC were obviously putting on them.

I don't need a flower on my shirt to remember. It's sad how many people are demonized for not wearing one.

Absolutely Rene. When has it ever been more peaceful? You can visit more countries of the world as a tourist now with relative (common sense rules apply) safety and security than ever before. Since the end of the Cold War the nuclear threat is looking less urgent, though not completely irradicatef, When has it been more safe? You can even visit war torn countries now as a tourist, I have Syrian colleagues who have returned home to visit their families for holiday, so the conflicts that do exist are not necessarily as widespread as the bbc and wider media would have us believe, though I'll stick with Majorca or the South of France for my hols next year all the same.

I don't. For numerous reasons, but really because I don't like being told when, where, how and for whom I should mourn.

+1

ormondroyd - Member

Me. I have major reservations about the way the campaign has shifted over the last five years.

Last week the Poppy Appeal's official twitter feed included pictures of smiling young children in "Future Soldier" t-shirts.

what he said.

i was brought up to think that the day of rememberance was to remind us of the horror of war, the cost to all sides - even our 'enemies'.

but it's just gone weird, and quite scary.

(i still put a couple of quid in the pot, as i hope it'll help someone)

Posted this in another thread but:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=625136347524388&id=209224299115597&set=a.211785712192789.51018.209224299115597&source=48&ref=m_notif&notif_t=share_reply&__user=603351473

Some of the comments are sickening and just show the mindset of 'poppy fascism'.

It all just seems quite jingoistic and goodwill towards the services is used cynically to garner support for strategic/economic military action.

I find people trying to paint WWI and WWII in the same light fairly sickening as well.

i was brought up to think that the day of rememberance was to remind us of the horror of war, the cost to all sides - even our 'enemies'.

+1

I don't need a flower on my shirt to remember. It's sad how many people are demonized for not wearing one.

+1

 

At work today, the only person I saw wearing a poppy was the receptionist in our building. No one in our company was (that I noticed), nor at the gym at lunchtime, nor at the Vets this evening.

Every year I buy a poppy and observe the 2 mins silence. But I don't wear the poppy. Personally I don't feel the need to advertise the fact that I've shown my support and remembered those that have lost their lives.

So you don't like Poppy's cause lots of people are promoting them? Let's face it the bbc has to fill its airtime somehow and unlike other commercial stations it is serving a public service and not pandering to the popular masses - god knows we see enough footballers, one D and lady gaga on more than enough of the other channels, so just switch channels if you don't like what the bbc are broadcasting.

I may have missed some posts, but I don't think people are complaining about the BBC's actual coverage of Remembrance, but the forced wearing of the poppy for fear of negative comment.

I used to wear one, but not any more. My thought's are more with all the innocent(armed or un-armed) killed in all the wars, and I observe the silence out of respect to them.

Wobbliscott - human history spans many many years and as peaceful as it may be now compared to recent and modern history, I've got to think there was once a more peaceful time long before nuclear weapons and war torn countries even existed.

Then again I've a very poor grasp of history so I should probably have kept quiet.

it seems to be true though...

[url= http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html ]TED linky[/url]