[Closed] Does anyone not wear a poppy, and why?

Where were you lot yesterday when I dared to suggest silence was pointless? I wear a poppy as it donates money to people who need and deserve it. Still boils my piss when people think just because they have been quiet they have done something when they have done nothing. Like that idiot defence sec in Helmand yesterday laying wreaths and being quiet in public whilst cutting funding and putting lives at risk in private or making people redundant and not helping the old and vulnerable many of who sacrificed so much. Too many people do nothing but think they have done something.

The hilarious thing is that some of the most popular comments on The Daily Mail today, are about how bad todays "youff" are because 13 year olds are not willing to go over the top into withering machine gun fire in a war caused by the political elites. They're actually worshiping a child soldier, pedos are bad - child soldiers are good apparently. For king and country and all that, I was half expecting to see along side the article "Why ethnic cleansing is good for London, our brave boys did it in Kenya".

The Flynn effect seems to have gone into reverse.

@aa

To paraprase; forget the remembrance, feed the war machine. Nice.

I donated, just haven't worn the poppy apart from at a Remembrance Service yesterday.

The Legion does a colossal amount of good for ex-servicemen, whether injured or not. But I'm from a Forces/Merchant Navy family, probably part of the first generation to have not served on active duty

agree with supporting those in need.

politicians,dictators whatever should go fight their own battles
and the gun sellers should find something useful to do.

I donated to War Child. I think it was that Legion photo of the kids in the "Future Soldier" t-shirts that pushed me down that path this year.

I don't think remberance glorifies war. It's just about taking a moment for people who died due to decisions made by politicians which WE elected.
Regarding the recent conflicts, I don't for a second think that anyone who voted for Blair thought he'd send us into two wars, but he did and it was the british electorate who empowered him to do so. It may have pissed some of the public off, but at least we're not maimed, mentally scarred or dead as many of our military and countless civilians are. It's not a comfortable truth but what I'm trying to say is that indirectly, we are not blameless.

I donated to War Child.

It's just about taking a moment for people who died due to decisions made by politicians which WE elected.

You don't think the Daily Mail is using remembrance to glorify war?

Who sent professional soldiers to war without listening to the general public's opposition to the war in Iraq? Were we given a choice to go or not to go?

No, it's always the decision of the political elites who have only their interests in mind - regardless of who we vote for they will always take us to war if it's within their own narrow interests. It's been that way since the dawn of time.

You don't think the Daily Mail is using remembrance to glorify war?

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Where were you lot yesterday when I dared to suggest silence was pointless? I wear a poppy as it donates money to people who need and deserve it. Still boils my piss when people think just because they have been quiet they have done something when they have done nothing.

We told you what the silence represented, and why people wanted to take part yesterday.

You obviously couldn't be bothered to try and understand any of the responses.

This thread is really the very point of remembrance day for me talking about the tragedy and waste and challenging the point of war hopefully with a view to ensuring we do our best to not go down the world war path again.

I did not wear a poppy but did observe the two minute silence with a Thi arsonist and interpreter.

I couldn't tell you what the mail does/writes. I don't read it. Just because they write it, doesn't make it so.

I just read it to gauge what the enemy is up to. Seeing as it's one of the most widely circulated papers in the country, it's opinions and the opinions of it's viewers are very useful.

I wasn't having a dig! Or accusing you of being a mail reader!

It's ok Wrecker I didn't take it as a dig, I like you and forces personnel as a whole - I was just thinking allowed. One thing that bugs me is that everyone I know who was/is in did it for every other reason other than patriotism, then when I see Cameron et al talking about them as if for example they weren't sink estate kids who once badly needed a job but instead heroes who joined up to fight for the nation... I start getting wound up. No honesty.

I observed two minutes silence anyway.

Versailles didn't cause WWII: Imperialism and expansionism were part of the manifesto of the Prussian state as created by Bismark; basically the Prussians were doing in Europe what Britain, France and Belgium were doing in Africa etc.

Not trying to start an argument, not the time or place, Versailes IMO was a catalyst, the reparations it demanded, the wehrmarcht. the rise of the Nazi party. I am not saying it caused WW2, nothing is ever that simple, it just didn't help and led to an environment where the NAZI party could rise.

If the mainstream doesn't serve the people, then the people look elsewhere. It has happened so many times. I suspect it will happen many more times too!

I donate each year but do not recall a time I wore the poppy.

I was at Kingston Bridge yesterday at 11am, paying my respects at the end of a ride and was suprised at how many people just got on with their lives, didn't stop, turn off their engines, etc whilst the police had stopped all the traffic etc.

You may not have gone out of your way to be there, neither did I, but for FFS stop and take 2 mins out of your life, for just a moments reflection.

My father fought in the 2nd world war, it changed him from a boy brought up as firm Methodist to a man with no time for god or the church, such was the horror he witnessed. This was the first year since the end of the war due to ill health he could not make it to his local cenotaph, I know that this upset him deeply.

After the appalling pr stunt at the Albert hall then I will not be giving the British legion another penny. I felt really sorry for the little girl who was stitched up with her dad coming home early. He was actually flown in for 48 hours just for that 2 minutes and then flown back to his deployment

Motivated by your post I was just reading about the 'Festival of Remembrance' and the stunt with one of the 'Poppy Girls'. The whole thing looks like a tacky yet terrifying militaristic state propaganda exercise the like of which Kim Jong Il would have been proud to preside over. 😕

i don't wear one--for many of the reasons others have stated, but mainly as a result of my grandad, who served in the last world war, he refused to wear any of his medals etc, to him it had been hi jacked by the state to legitimise militarism

I think the blanket appearance of poppies on tv talking heads from late October onwards cheapens and dilutes the whole thing...it has the air of Milo Minderbinders Great Loyalty Oath Crusade about. Far more powerful atribute just for it too appear on lapels on the 11th or Remembrance Sunday.

This isn't a criticism of British Legion by the way - far from it they force no one to wear one...but the tv companies seem to insist people do.

I was at a location today which wasn't a military one, but with an organisation that worked hard during the war and saved a lot of lives...as they do today. We stopped at 11 for a few quiet moments to think and remember...it was quiet outside too. It was fitting and powerful.

the men and women who consciously gave of themselves in the two world wars

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms. They weren't, and the Malayan insurgency, the Greek civil war, the Mau Mau Uprising, the Aden Emergency, and the Korean War weren't either.

"We will remember them (but not what they were doing or why)", apparently.

To be fair konabunny, whilst WW2 was totally avoidable I still think it can be described as a just war. We were fighting for political freedoms in that war and arguing otherwise is tantamount to a rather bad case of revisionism.

Although the reasons as to why we were fighting the Pacific War are certainly more blurred and much more to do with imperial interests as opposed to the survival of the nation and it's European allies.

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms.

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

That's not why the war was fought, though - the concentration camps weren't known of by most people in the UK - and didn't even exist at the start of the war.

Sorry, that's wrong.

The Nazis built the first of their concentration camps in the early thirties.

I didn't wear a poppy. I bought one for my 3yr old son.

Why don't I wear one? Its like Britishness, you don't need to communicate it. Its there. If I go to Brugges in a few weeks I will visit Ypres again and probably have a wee cry again when I hear the names being read out on a never ending track. 🙂

The same as being of Christian faith. I don't go to Church but I believe.

I don't wear a poppy, However I always donate when I see a poppy seller, and will always encourage my kids to do the same.
We always take the time to explain to our kids what it is all about, and my Daughter laid a wreath at our Village war memorial on Sunday on behalf of the Sunday School kids.

I can't really explain why I don't wear one - I guess I don't feel the need to advertise my support?

Every year I always find it difficult to place my thoughts on this time of year. When I was younger only really thought that Remembrance Sunday was to remember the fallen and lost of WWI and WWII. Those wars have shaped what we live in far more than any other 'war' we (as in Great Britain) have been involved in and the loss of those wars would have surely changed how we are living today. That's what I personally choose to remember. I have worn a poppy some years, just for a day or two, and I remember those fallen much more when I spend time reading or watching programs about those wars.

However, being from Belfast I have read a few articles about Irelands involvement and the with in being at the time of the Easter Rising. There still seems to be a lot of hatred I guess, expressed in the opinions of people in regards to the Irish involvement in the Great War. I do find it slightly upsetting that people believe the British Empire 'forced' the Irish to go to war. Many, not all, Irish opinions seems to say that they had no other choice.

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms.

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

The idea that we fought WWII to save the Jews is quite ridiculous - and seems to have become quite prevalent.

I used to wear one on my coat before I started to commute by bike, I don't fancy sticking pins in my Gore-Tex bike jacket! I also used to wear one on my school jumper. I do however wear one on Remembrance Sunday whilst taking part in the parade.

Cheers,
Jamie

grum - Member

The idea that we fought WWII to save the Jews is quite ridiculous - and seems to have become quite prevalent.

Could you provide some examples?

Real people fought and were killed protecting and serving the interests of the nation and moral principle. Warfare is a desperately unfortunate condition, but one that happens all too frequently when national politics become aggressive. It is a truly scary business that requires courage to endure. Regardless of how people became soldiers, or whether you agree with the principles or national-interests involved in any particular conflict, I respect a soldier's courage and sacrifice.

[i]Direct your anger at politicians throughout our history who have sent brave warriors into conflicts for unsound reasons.[/i]

I'm just not inclined to pin a hole in my GoreTex jacket.

I already did:

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms.

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

See also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/endeavour-press/rewriting-history-wwii-an_b_2091449.html

Admittedly he doesn't provide any evidence but it's something I've noticed too.

And this is a bit misleading:

Sorry, that's wrong.

The Nazis built the first of their concentration camps in the early thirties.

Concentration camps yes (think we invented them first) but I don't think the existence of 'death camps' where people were systematically executed was known about by most people until very near the end of the war or afterwards.

I include the Polish as 'we' since they fought on the same side. Was the persecution pre-war not a major concern? Does this not point to religious freedom being a factor in the war? Obviously the next example would be the invasion of Poland. Does that not point to Political Freedom being a factor in the war? Even if obviously we were concerned about our own rather than that of the Polish people.

When you say "gave of themselves", do you mean "mostly conscripted at pain of arrest and imprisonment?".

Edit - html formatting fail removed

Was the persecution pre-war not a major concern?

Was it?

Not for the Daily Mail in 1930.

[img] [/img]

And I know a few Poles that would have some choice words to say about the fight for political freedom in WWII - given that we abandoned them to the Soviet Union immediately afterwards.

Here's Churchill in 1940:

In his famous "Blood, Sweat and Tears" speech, the great British wartime leader said that unless Germany was defeated, there would be "no survival for the British empire, no survival for all that the British empire has stood for..." A few weeks later, in his "Finest Hour" address, Churchill said: "Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire."

According to him it seems to have been mostly about protecting the Empire and Christian Civilization.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have fought the Nazis, obviously - but we have a lot of myths that have built up around WWII that are quite embedded in our national consciousness. Interesting article here:

http://www.ihr.org/news/weber_ww2_may08.html

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

I include the Polish as 'we' since they fought on the same side.

BBC R4 today at 12:00 you and yours

Is RS losing its true meaning?

10m time PSA

If WW2 was about saving the Jews, it seems weird that UK would have allied itself with one of the most xenophobic anti-Semitic regimes on earth in order to do it...

...and then suggesting that the Poles fought WW2 to save the Jews is just ludicrous.

I don't think that HAS been suggested, has it?

chrismac that stunt is disgusting more so if dad really is only on 2 day leave not home early. So empty too on officer on anti piracy in the Seychelles why not a squaddie from operations in Afghanistan.

Yes.

why not a squaddie from operations in Afghanistan

I've had a look through and I can't see it.

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms.

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

Which, if Richpenny wasn't suggesting a link, seems a bit of a disjointed post.

Obviously I dunno what RP was saying either but a post that says
"[i]Some people suggest ww2 was fought coz of religion/political freedom[/i]
Well a lot of religious people died"
is either a suggested link or 2 random bits of info tagged together.
Dunno, just a suggestion, grum (and a couple of others) seemed to think so too.

grum - Member

There is some ludicrous re-engineering of history going on here to make it look like WW1 and WW2 were wars for religious and political freedoms.

My wife's home town had a population of 60000 Jews in 1939. By 1945, 200 were left alive.

The idea that we fought WWII to save the Jews is quite ridiculous - and seems to have become quite prevalent.