Has anyone else forgotten how to sleep?
I go to bed between 10 and 11pm and I'm awake most mornings at about 4:00am, or will have a couple of hours awake between 2 and 4 am.
If I go to bed earlier I'll wake up at about 1:00am
Driving me bonkers and I'm constantly knackered.
57 years old, and feeling it.
Anyone else?
Been like that for a couple of years mate. some nights I get good night's kip, but it's rare
Yep! Was at GP's yesterday regarding this - in bed between 10 and 11. Normally up between 6 and 7. I wake at least3 times every night. Not just knackered, Im absolutely spent, all day, every day. Full bloods ordered. Hopefully can be fixed, even taking the dog for a quick spin is an effort recently. 55 y/o.
Absolutely. I can remember the last time I slept well, it's that rare. Even last night, was playing football til 8, decent dinner, bed by 11, lay awake til 12, and then tossing and turning most of the night.
1. Get up and go to the bathroom. Old Man's bladder gets me here a lot
2. Stress - routinely keeps me awake at night - normally money/job/staffing issues. Unavoidable until I retire at this rate
Yep, same. 62, been like it since I was late 50s. Nytol or Amytriptaline, sometimes help. Not always. Last night was ****in awful. Wanted to ride in had alarm set for 6:40, 4ish wide awake, thought I'll sleep in and drive, reset alarm for 7:30. 6:15 still awake. Got up and rode in. Nothing stressful going on, just wide awake brain thinking shit or singing songs from London Calling (listened to it while mowing the lawn on Saturday). Insomnia is really quite irritating.
Even last night, was playing football til 8, decent dinner, bed by 11, lay awake til 12, and then tossing and turning most of the night.
You've just described the perfect recipe for a bad night's sleep.
Harry, you have described how most nights go for me. It is actually getting to the point where I get anxious about bedtime. Very comforting to see that I am not the only one but would be great if someone could offer solutions beyond the usual perfect "night time preparation" bullshit which, IMO, can only be adhered to if you live in the countryside and on you own.
Are you drinking enough (not booze)? If I've not drunk enough during the day I sleep really badly and it took me years to work out the link. Even now I'll wake in the middle of the night and it'll be a while of not getting back to sleep before I think "maybe I'm thirsty". Down a couple of pints of water and I get back to sleep fine.
Same problem here but at the weekend I was home alone for 3 days. I did the usual waking up between 4 or 5am but stayed put until I drifted off and stayed in bed until 9 or 10. Absolute bliss. I felt like a different person with regular energy levels all day long.
It made me realise what I'm missing out on being woken up by kids between 5 and 6 and then feeling like crap all day. I feel like they've taken years off my life!
Yep, at 46 I've been struggling for a couple of years.
Bed at around 11pm, get to sleep pretty quick and from my watch fall into a deep sleep for less than an hour. The rest of the night then feels like I'm semi-conscious and awake multiple times before waking properly at 5-6am knackered but unable to get back to sleep.
Bloods showed nothing.
Are you drinking enough (not booze)?
I always sleep better after a few glasses of wine or beer. Too much water and the prostate will have me up in the night multiple times. I think the booze relaxes my brain better than most things. Haven't, and won't try, weed!
I sleep mostly through the night, but according to Garmin, my deep and rem sleep are usually far too low, I spend most of my time in light sleep.
Personally, mine is a cycle, IBS leads to poor sleep, poor sleep leads to worse symptoms. I've eliminated everything I can, exercise plenty, drink little alcohol, but ultimately I still don't seem to improve much.
Are you drinking enough (not booze)? If I've not drunk enough during the day I sleep really badly and it took me years to work out the link. Even now I'll wake in the middle of the night and it'll be a while of not getting back to sleep before I think "maybe I'm thirsty". Down a couple of pints of water and I get back to sleep fine
I've never slept well and it feels like its' got worse as I've got older. Booze definitely doesn't help - try having a few nights a week at least where you have none. I think part of my problem has been drinking too much water over the evening - for sure if I drank a few pints of water I'd be up again before the night was out.
Try a magnesium supplement in the evening. You need the right sort apparently, but not necessarily the dose they're trying to sell you (you'll get some from your normal diet so you don't need to add the RDA). It has definitely made a difference for me - I wouldn't say I'm sleeping through and waking up refreshed but it seems to have cut multiple get up to pee's down to one a night.
Another one here. I usually get off to sleep well enough, usually listening to soothing music on soft headphone/headband thing helps and I rarely get to the 30 min timer still awake.
But awaken once or twice typically and then have to work really hard to stop the brain starting to think about things. I need something to occupy the mind enough to stop stress thinking, but not enough to be interesting - I either imagine my drive to Dad's house but keeping count of all the left and right turns, or counting upwards in prime numbers, but I've done that so often I need the added task of keeping count of how many I've counted. So, 1,2,3,5,7,11 (that's six so far) 13, 17, 19 23 (ten) etc.
And then I'm still tired and regularly fall asleep in my armchair in the evening I'm so tired. And I know that not sleeping all night and sleeping in the evening are linked but trying to beat that cycle just adds stress, because if I don't sleep well tonight I'll then be dozing tomorrow...etc.
Haven't, and won't try, weed!
I'm considering CBD gummies from H&B for chronic pain (hip arthritis) and some have said they also calm the anxious mind. Sort of the same / not the same.
I'm 57 and sleep like I've been knocked out by Mike Tyson* - I'm still knackered all day though!! 🤣
(*with a couple of pee break intervals but I'm straight back to sleep)
Does anyone know much about the connection between exercise and sleep? It seems counterintuitive but evening exercise keeps me awake.
I usually sleep like an absolute champion but last night I did a 1hr road ride early in the evening and, this is now becoming a trend, had a terrible nights sleep.
I used to night ride, getting to bed at about midnight. Legs would be fizzing and sleep got to be double-crap. Had to give it up.
Going to give the CBD Gummies a go.
I have similar problems especially after an evening ride but sometimes after a particularly big day. Maybe dehydration as has been mentioned. But I wonder if adrenaline/overstimulation/eating late are more of an issue.
Does anyone know much about the connection between exercise and sleep? It seems counterintuitive but evening exercise keeps me awake.
Garmin regularly gives me a slap for evening exercise. Try something more calming like yoga or stretches or even a walk.
I used to night ride, getting to bed at about midnight. Legs would be fizzing and sleep got to be double-crap. Had to give it up.
Same experience here. thought I'd be worn out and sleep well but just didn't work for me. I never do any exercise past 7pm now.
I wake up through the night, 4am is normal and sometimes it's 1 or 2. However my superpower is that I go out like a light each night (whether that's 10 or 12), and usually get another chunk 5am-6ish so I'm ok overall.
I don't exercise late, that used to leave me buzzing, especially an MTB ride home at night after a long day at work that I used to do occasionally.
Does anyone know much about the connection between exercise and sleep? It seems counterintuitive but evening exercise keeps me awake.
I usually sleep like an absolute champion but last night I did a 1hr road ride early in the evening and, this is now becoming a trend, had a terrible nights sleep.
I do most exercise early in the day. Often 6am. Never after 6pm. I sleep pretty well. 6.5 to 7 hours a night. Whenever I exercised in the evening when I was younger it would take me hours to wind down enough to sleep.
Are you drinking enough (not booze)? If I've not drunk enough during the day I sleep really badly and it took me years to work out the link. Even now I'll wake in the middle of the night and it'll be a while of not getting back to sleep before I think "maybe I'm thirsty". Down a couple of pints of water and I get back to sleep fine.
If you're downing a couple of pints of water in one bounce, I'd be getting a blood sugar test for diabetes.
I always sleep better after a few glasses of wine or beer.
So do I, but it's lower quality sleep.
For me it’s stress that’s causes poor sleep ie waking up early, even if I don’t feel stressed
It’s rare for me thankfully but if it happens I now try and work out what it is that’s causing it
Booze is also terrible for bad sleep
Another one struggling with this.
No issues getting off to sleep but always wake up some time between 3am and 5am and then struggle to get back to sleep or just have really poor sleep.
Often it can be an old mans wee or work worries bothering me but just seems to be the way my sleep is these days.
Tried Magnesium but has made absolutely NO impact at all (interested to know what actual ones people have found that worked).
All a bit annoying and I spend every single day just feeling tired.
This was me. Early 50s. Was regularly up for an hour or two in the night. Used to stick a podcast on to try and get back to sleep and would then have a fitful few hours until get up time.
Completely changed my sleep routine a few months back. Bed about 11-11:30. No phone after 9. And no phone in the bedroom. No podcasts. I don't eat after 8:30pm. No coffee after lunchtime. Strict wake up and out into daylight at 6:30 - usually just do a few stretches in the garden while the kettle boils.
I do still wake up every night around 1 or 2, but I get back to sleep much quicker. Overall I feel much better, and despite the wake ups feel like I'm getting enough sleep.
I find that stress is a huge reason why I do not sleep. I find that proper exercise helps. Only decaf drinks, and even then only water generally after 6pm. Fresh air, even if the room is cold, is better for my sleep. We bought wool mattress, pillows and duvet and only pure cotton bedding. Never do phone or TV in bedroom.
We also moved into a house that has a CO2 meter in the bedroom - and I do not sleep well when that is showing higher CO2. We have started sleeping with window open even more than we used to.
I cannot say I am perfect, but I do sleep better than I used to.
I always sleep better after a few glasses of wine or beer.
This isn't great advice for most folks, and TBH, it's often not the best quality sleep. Before mithering the GP- try;
routine - you seem to have that one nailed
cut out screens for an hour or so before bed
bedroom temperature makes a surprising difference. cold room is often better sleep.
cut out the booze (says the GP trying to eat his lunch in peace across the room) and caffeine, and eat earlier. so your not trying to digest your dinner
exercise in the evenng helps
When was the last time you changed your mattress or turned it over? (I'm raising my eyebrows at this one), but he's saying that if you're uncomfortable, it makes a difference.
Now leave me alone so I can eat my lunch... no, wait, I don't think that one counts
My sleep was awful in early '23, waking up several times a night with stress, ended up being prescribed Mirtazapine. Got me to sleep within hour of taking it, problem for me was that it made me very drowsy when I surfaced around 0900 until late afternoon the next day. Stopped taking it summer '23
I've been struck in another sleeping rut since, I rarely sleep before midnight and struggle to surface before 1000. On the odd day I might surface near 0900, but I don't get a routine going and on night's after relatively hard exercise on the turbo or outdoors, it's often a struggle to surface before 1100.
My exercise is usually mid afternoon, but if I do anything after dinner, it's light intensity.
We have a sucker cup blackout blanket on the window, but during the summer months I can sense the sunrise light unless my sleeping mask has stayed properly in place.
I'm trying to drink less caffeine, cut down from 4 cups before 1700 to 2/3.
No booze.
This was me. Early 50s. Was regularly up for an hour or two in the night. Used to stick a podcast on to try and get back to sleep and would then have a fitful few hours until get up time.
Completely changed my sleep routine a few months back. Bed about 11-11:30. No phone after 9. And no phone in the bedroom. No podcasts. I don't eat after 8:30pm. No coffee after lunchtime. Strict wake up and out into daylight at 6:30 - usually just do a few stretches in the garden while the kettle boils.
I do still wake up every night around 1 or 2, but I get back to sleep much quicker. Overall I feel much better, and despite the wake ups feel like I'm getting enough sleep.
This is me in the last 6 months.... I already do all the measures - no caffine after midday, not eating late etc.... I sleep before 10pm and get up at 6.30am - I need 8 hours per night to feel alive but lucky to get 7 with waking from 2-4am after the 'old man' bathroom call and not sleeping for 2 hours. I haven't changed anything in the last year but cannot get back to sleep. It was almost like a trigger 6 months ago. There must be a solution!
I still go with I sleep better after booze. Everyone says "you don't" but they are wrong. I'm not advising, I'm saying what works for me. Sleeping is better quality sleep than not sleeping.
Also the screens - I sometimes have a quick nosey on my phone before sleeping, often read off a Kindle screen, but I almost never have problem falling asleep in the first place.
Count backwards from 300 was good advice I was given once. Works well, unless Rudi Can't Fail interrupts the counting.
Co-pilot say......
a {
text-decoration: none;
color: #464feb;
}
tr th, tr td {
border: 1px solid #e6e6e6;
}
tr th {
background-color: #f5f5f5;
}
Why this happens in your 50s
Several changes converge around this age:
1. Sleep becomes lighter
As we age, we get less deep (slow‑wave) sleep and more fragmented sleep. Once awake, the brain is quicker to “switch on”.
2. Circadian rhythm shifts
Your internal clock moves earlier. At 2–4am, your body may already be drifting toward a “lighter sleep / waking” phase.
3. Night-time urination (nocturia)
Even waking once can be enough to break sleep momentum. The problem is often not the bladder, but the brain not switching back off afterward.
4. Stress hormones
Cortisol (the “alert” hormone) rises in the early morning hours. In mid-life, this rise is often stronger.
What actually works (in order of importance)
1. Change what you do after you wake up
This is the biggest lever.
✅ Do
- Keep lights very low (no bright bathroom light)
- Don’t check the time
- Move slowly and calmly
- Return to bed with the expectation of rest, not sleep
🚫 Avoid
- Looking at your phone
- Mentally reviewing your day
- “Trying” to sleep (this backfires)
The goal is to avoid activating the thinking brain, which is what traps people awake.
2. Remove pressure to sleep
Paradoxically, wanting sleep too much keeps you awake.
Instead of:
“I must get back to sleep”
Try:
“I’m just resting; sleep will come or it won’t”
This reduces adrenaline and allows sleep to re‑emerge naturally.
3. Get out of bed if you’re wide awake
If you’re alert and tense for ~20–30 minutes:
- Get up
- Sit somewhere dim
- Do something boring and non‑stimulating (reading dull pages, gentle breathing)
- Return to bed when sleepy again
This re‑trains the brain to associate bed with sleep, not frustration.
4. Adjust evening fluid and stimulant timing
Simple but powerful:
- Stop caffeine after late morning
- Reduce fluid intake 2–3 hours before bed
- Alcohol worsens early‑morning awakenings even if it helps you fall asleep
5. Morning light + consistent wake time
This stabilises your body clock.
- Get bright daylight within 30–60 minutes of waking
- Wake at roughly the same time daily (even after a bad night)
Sleeping in after a poor night makes the next one worse.
6. Address the “second brain wake-up”
Many people get stuck because the mind starts thinking.
Two effective techniques:
- Slow breathing (longer exhale than inhale)
- Neutral imagery (e.g. visualising walking slowly through a familiar place)
Avoid problem‑solving in bed.
What usually doesn’t help long‑term
- Sleeping tablets (often worsen fragmentation)
- Melatonin (limited benefit for this pattern)
- Going to bed earlier
- Napping after a broken night
I wonder if I could put a hole in my mattress with a funnel in and a bucket underneath.
Then I could roll over and pee in it without getting up and walking around with the lamp on.
I'm so glad that you added that second sentence.
I go to bed quite late as I've always been more of a night owl. Say around 12. but do not have to be up until 8. If I do some really intensive sport then I might get a good 8 hours. Oddly, if I go and stay at my dad's near the ocean I have been known to sleep some 11 hours.
But getting up to pee as I age is a curse.
Try a magnesium supplement in the evening.
I've been taking magnesium with dinner for a couple of months now and it's a game-changer. I'm not sleeping much better, but I just wake up feeling "ooh, didn't sleep so well, bit tired", rather than totally non-functional.
I read something on social media a couple of weeks back that sounded plausible, something like at 3am your cortisol levels are at their... lowest?... and your melatonin also reaches an inversion point, so you're very likely to wake up at that time, and then your brain is very likely to go into weird doomloop thinking.
The issue I have is I'll usually drift off to sleep fairly quickly, but then wake up about 45 minutes later and be wide awake for another hour or two. No clue why or what to do about it
Surprisingly, one thing that helped me was using a sleep app and leaving the phone under the pillow. (This was before smart watches were common)
I get the waking early or in the middle of the night thing still, but I thought I was a super light sleeper and would wake constantly, and this caused frustration and made me feel worse and probably more tired than I was.
The app showed that actually, once I’m asleep I’m a fairly solid sleeper and get a good few quality hours. I was waking several times after 4am and as I tend to try and not look at my phone when I wake in the middle of the night, I had just assumed I was waking up constantly throughout.
Generally tend to sleep better now as I’m not stressing so much about waking up all the time
Co pilot feels right about the deeper earlier sleep. Garmin bears it out for me - all my deep sleep is before my 1/2 am wake up. Everything after is lighter. But at least now I’m getting some sleep after!
I've posted this before but it helped me accept that it's OK not to have the mythical 8 hours continuous sleep, and being awake for a while in the night isn't the end of the world. That knowledge meant I wasn't so bothered about waking up which in turn made me more likely to go back to sleep.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep
Oh and if you're taking magnesium there's a big difference between the way the body absorbs (cheap, widely available) magnesium oxide and (more expensive) magnesium glycinate. Spoiler - the cheap stuff doesn't do anything for sleep.
I had a bunch of problems ranging from a stroke to being hit by a car. Ended up with crippling anxiety and would wake up 2am like clockwork feeling like the world was going to end. Ended up changing jobs (new product development in a spirits company was leading to self medicating) and speaking to my GP and psychologist. I’m now taking some medication (quetiapine) that keeps the demons away and keeping off the booze. Life is much better.
I’ve suffered on and off from poor sleep for a few years - mostly waking to pee and not getting back to sleep. I’ve made several small changes that have helped, like many others described above, such as stopping caffeine after the morning and sticking to a sleep routine. Several of the suggested approaches to aid dropping off, such as mindfulness, have worked for a bit, but for me counting backwards from a large number has worked surprisingly well.
Stress has a noticeable effect (I sleep way better when on holidays for example). Exercise during the day I find really helpful for both feeling sleepy at bedtime and reducing stress. The only time I sleep through these days is after an epic adventure somewhere.
My dad suffered from an enlarged prostate, to the point where he was going to the bathroom several times a night. In the end he had two operations to reduce it in size. They worked, but on the last one they found bladder cancer. Now he has a urostomy bag and is quite happy. The silver lining for him has been that he doesn’t need to wake to go to the loo any more!
