MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I think Piers just offered a suggestion…
https://twitter.com/spittingcat/status/1337447235618037763?s=21
It all seems so hollow now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/feb/21/boris-backs-brexit-video
Edit:
Yeah, you fought the man Nigel. The man is now leaving the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/24/nigel-farage-eu-referendum-this-victory-for-real-people-video
I still remember the feelings of waking up on that morning in 2016 and seeing the result. Shock, confusion, unease, despair.
I remember too, but what I really remember most is going into the office. The crowing from the thickos who did the stuff that really should have been replaced with a couple of macros was insufferable. Especially from the one who had managed to insult the girl of Asian background who she sat near by exclaiming "I'm not eating that muck" when a curry was mooted as Xmas night out 2015.
A couple of hours later she was on the phone to hubby telling him to get down the post office sharpish to get the Euros for their holiday to Spain because "you'll never believe what's happening to the pound". I actually walked out at that point with a stage whisper of "for ****'s sake" as I went.
It was utterly predictable who would be cheering.
It was utterly predictable who would be cheering.
I don't think anyone where I was working at the time was really "cheering" as such but there were definitely a few people there, fairly high up, who admitted to voting Leave. One said it was "because of all that money we sent to the EU".
This in a sports governing body that absolutely relied on freedom of movement to permit its athletes to attend training camps in Europe, race in European competitions, to maintain a European base of operations, to cross borders sometimes dozens of times a year, that was flying/driving support staff across Europe and that employed coaches and support staff from all over Europe.
Utterly ****ing insane.
My ire is directed at everyone who said ‘Right, that’s it. 50%+1 is enough to burn everything to the ground and work it out later and if you disagree you hate democracy’
Don't be under the mistaken belief that was an original concept, 50% +1 was the criteria in 2014 when I was told I was being ridiculous for suggesting such a result would be contentious at best and grounds for rioting at worst.
As one of my French colleagues said, “if this was happening in my country, we’d be out on the streets rioting”. Maybe they had the right idea with la revolution.
There is only one leave voter that I know for whom I say fair enough and can respect his choice. He is a lifelong supporter of Scottish independence, not a loudmouthed noisy one, but a thoughtful and very decent chap. He voted leave as he believed it would increase the likelihood of Scottish independence. He doesn’t dislike the EU at all, and thinks an independent Scotland will rejoin.
Give us some dates.
On here, in the last month or so, I can think of at least 4 examples.
Examples of “back in the day”, when people helped each other more? It’s nonsense. People today help each other as much as ever, we just ALSO have (but are steadily dismantling) complex systems that offer additional support, and aren’t limited to small groups (families, neighbourhoods, forums, whatever). Individuals have always supported each other… but help between neighbourhoods, regions, nations, continents… that needs organisations, rules, systems, staffing to work. Remove those shared support systems, and we can not replace that with acts of individual smaller scale offers of support, like we did “back in the day”, because we never stopped doing that… losing those bigger shared methods of cooperation and support is a lose lose situation.
teesoo
Full MemberAs one of my French colleagues said, “if this was happening in my country, we’d be out on the streets rioting”.
Honestly, that's a huge part of our problem. I mean, look at the last year. WE have a government that's absolutely failed at its job. Not just on brexit, most obviously on covid which they've been disastrous at. The absolute worst thing they might face, is getting voted out of office in 4 years. O noes! But even then, there's a good chance they won't. There are no meaningful consequences at all, for them at least, though there are consequences for 63000 dead people, consequences for the millions of people that'll be unemployed, consequences for small businesses and people on benefits and everyone except for the people that did it. And of course, we should blame other individuals, never the government- traditionally everything is the fault of the Other- the foreigner, the EU, the communist- but this last few years has proved you don't even need an Other, people can be convinced to blame other people who're exactly the same as them and are doing pretty much the same as them.
And in the meantime... Any sort of civil disobedience is Wanton Criminality and to be crushed, any protest that behaves exactly as they're told is completely ignorable and probably all just students and the unemployed, the law's been changed to allow police to commit crimes with trivial cause to allow more agent provocateur and dodgy intrusion into public politics, you need a stronger mandate to strike than you do to become prime minister... And voting, like I mentioned up the page, leaves a party with 41% of the vote acting as if they have a true crushing majority and opposition parties with 41% of the vote left as spectators.
It is imo a bigger problem than brexit, or covid, because it's the hardware that all those things run on.
On here, in the last month or so, I can think of at least 4 examples.
(Aside from the fact that you were talking about your grandparents 'back in the day' so this is a non-sequitur,)
No you can't.
I mean, maybe you can, but if you're trying to prove a point with zero evidence or references to back up that point then it requires equally no evidence to dismiss out of hand as nonsense.
The majority of my work colleagues are red top/Mail readers and voted leave - this is despite being in automotive supply chain manufacturing in Lancashire with European raw materials and mainly for export. A few of them are bleating that it isn't now what they voted for. Really????!!!!!
At least being in engineering I'll be the last one out after unbolting everything and shipping it to Europe.
Monbiot describing Brexit as the ‘beach-head’ in ‘capitalism’s civil war’
... but capturing a country like the UK, without the need for a military coup? That’s a much bigger prize.
Another Marina Hyde bullseye.
I remember an interview with the guy that first coined the name/phrase "Brexit" in a paper he wrote a few years before the referendum.
He said that he saw Brexit as a fight for the counties soul effectively, between a Welfare State and a free market economy.
I think he was/is spot on. We are going to witness the dismantling of the NHS and midi social care and all the safe guards "we" have taken for granted since the end of the second World war. Austerity was a perfect training ground to prep for it too...
I find it chilling and I honestly feel alien on my own country. Something I've never felt in my entire life.
Three pages in a day to catch up on, you have all been busy. And a refreshingly perceptive bunch you all are. Keep up the good work, the polls are tipping in your favour:
Of the 50 or so STWers who said they'd vote out there have been a couple of converts and the rest don't come anywhere near this thread, or anywhere near the chat forum for the most part.
You just need someone to lead a revolution now. Starmer won't, any volunteers here ?
(Aside from the fact that you were talking about your grandparents ‘back in the day’ so this is a non-sequitu
I was asked for dates. Those were the most recent dates that came to mind. The others would be meaningless to anyone who wasn't there because they would not be 'evidence' if you don't accept that it happened without you witnessing it.
But since you are telling me I can't you've won the argument. Congrats. I guess the fact that I actually can doesn't count as evidence. Guess you never took logic, since proving the absence of sometime is impossible
Do you genuinely believe we as good at taking care of each other as we were? Given the threads on here about neighbours? Most people would struggle to name their neighbours, never mind know when they need food, clothes, a sympathetic ear. We've left that to social services. Most people don't even pick up their own litter, never mind anyone elses.
If what comes out of this is that we depend less on government and more on our community and each other, it won't be nearly as crap as it otherwise would.
We’ve left that to social services.
I think you need to reach out to your neighbours. One of mine needed social care, not just the kindness of the immediate community, in recent years, but that’s dementia for you. Unfortunately she died recently, and 3 vehicles of trained staff arrived to try and help her in her dying hours… anyway, go and talk to your neighbours (at a safe distance). Having functional shared care and support systems has never, and will never, replace looking after each other… and removing them will not result in the return of some mythical time when we were more caring and supportive to those around us. Of course, if you can’t see this ongoing community kindness and help that goes on all the time… and always has… ask yourself if it’s just because that’s how you lead your own life.
On our street the kids play out together and the parents make each other cups of tea and coffee to chat while they do.
Not so much over the last 8 months of course.
But I was still lending tools to the guy 2 doors down last week and he had another offer from the other end of the street but it wasn’t quite the right tool.
Folk can and do still interact and look after each other.
Oh and just for a laugh, that’s not a born and bred, working class, salt of the earth type street I’m describing. This is a very middle class street where folk are from a variety of countries never mind counties.
And yes it’s a lovely place to live.
I'm not sure if anyone else is having the same issues but anything we order from outside UK has gone from a couple of days delivery time to weeks.
Our research institute is effectively shut down now, a lot of essential reagents from Switzerland & Germany are simply impossible to get.
With the pressures of Covid on research & funding already this is the last thing we need.
think you need to reach out to your neighbours.
I think would need to know about my relationship with my neighbours before you advice me on that. I know all of them btw.
One of mine needed social care, not just the kindness of the immediate community, in recent years, but that’s dementia for y
I had a relative who suffered from that for years. Her famiky took care of her to her last
Having functional shared care and support systems has never, and will never, replace looking after each other… and removing them will not result in the return of some mythical time when we were more caring and supportive to those around us.
Never said it would. Although you are wrong about that. The research has been done for you if you care to look.
you can’t see this ongoing community kindness and help that goes on all the time… and always has… ask yourself if it’s just because that’s how you lead your own life.
My community is great thanks, because we all contribute.
Again the research has been done on this and it disagrees with everything you say. It's all out there if you care to look. For various reasons we have come to rely on formal organisations be they govt or charity, because families and communities don't do the things they used to, for all sorts of reasons.
If you want 'evidence' go read the research.
If anything good comes out of this it will be that we do more for each other, unfortunately because we have to.
It’s all out there if you care to look.
So… what are the dates you want us to look to compare now to? Let’s start with that.
When was this rosey time when we all looked out for each other more?
(Even though in your own experience it seems we are doing pretty well now).
If anything good comes out of this it will be that we do more for each other, unfortunately because we have to.
I'm really not sure that being dependent on your neighbours because brexit has caused state funded social care to collapse, really counts as a win
I’m really not sure that being dependent on your neighbours because brexit has caused state funded social care to collapse, really counts as a win
File that alongside
He voted leave as he believed it would increase the likelihood of Scottish independence.
I mean, he wasn't wrong but there's something decidedly machiavellian about throwing 61 million people under the bus just to advance your cause. Great if we go Indy and rejoin. Not so great for everyone else or those Scots caught as collateral damage.
I was asked for dates. Those were the most recent dates that came to mind.
You were remeniscing about some glorious past, you were asked "when?" and you replied "four days ago." This makes no sense.
The others would be meaningless to anyone who wasn’t there because they would not be ‘evidence’ if you don’t accept that it happened without you witnessing it.
Well, no, you just need to put some meat on your point beyond "it all used to be better."
I guess the fact that I actually can doesn’t count as evidence.
Of course it counts. Off you go, fill your boots. You've got a captive audience.
Guess you never took logic, since proving the absence of sometime is impossible
No-one is asking you to prove the absence of anything, what are you on about?
Do you genuinely believe we as good at taking care of each other as we were?
Do you genuinely believe we are worse at taking care of each other than we were?
Given the threads on here about neighbours? Most people would struggle to name their neighbours
Oh, I think I might know this one. Is it because they're brown?
I can name my neighbours on both sides and I moved in here a fortnight ago.
I can name everyone on my street and a few more on the periphery for bonus points.
If you want ‘evidence’ go read the research.
Ah “do your own research”
You just need someone to lead a revolution now. Starmer won’t, any volunteers here ?
Too late, it has to happen to prove the stupidity of itself. Only then can the corrosive hubris be pushed back with any permanency.
While I'm no brexiteer I am feeling a bit better about life today. uncertainty is the killer. Being fairly certain that life just got a little harder actually feels better than yesterday where it was on a knife edge. I appreciate its not 100% set yet but we'll see.
No deal is of course only temporary. We'll want a deal soon enough and so will the EU when the fishermen start burning down french government buildings, so we just need to get through this period of nonsense for a while. Successive governments have (because you know they're sovrin' n all) made terrible decisions over and over again. History will just remember this group as especially bad at, well, everything.
Life is just a game of getting from birth to death as least badly as possible as I see it, the game just got a little tougher for a few years, but you'll all make it through I'm sure, so don't let it get you down too much!
While that’s all very admirable and philosophical, we need to bear in mind one critical thing
We are inflicting this on ourselves
For absolutely no good reason that I can see.
More importantly, it’s the poorest and most vulnerable in society, those who can least afford it, who are about to be hit hardest. They’re going to be the ones made to pay the price for some nebulous bullshit about sovereignty.
All while those driving this lunacy will be insulated from any of its effects by their privilege and wealth. A lot of them will ‘prosper mightily’ from investment positions already cynically taken
And that makes me really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really ****ing angry!!
And that makes me really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really ****ing angry!!
And does that help?
But binners it’s always - in general - been that way since the dawn of time. You have those at the top, and those at the bottom. In the middle you have those trying to go from the bottom to the top, and sometimes yet rarely the other way around.
Unwanted Employees get fired, bosses get higher status and more money, those I the middle work hard to keep the status quo with more work or higher targets to achieve. Being at Work is my analogy for Brexit - someone else make a decision which furthers their cause but makes life more difficult or catastrophic for someone else. I take Ben Pinnicks view in the main these days, life’s there to crack on with, get through each day the best you can. Living in a constant world of self induced anger and stress will do nothing but depress and harm you.
Put that energy into improving what you have not fighting against the (tide) things you can’t change individually. When voting day comes we’ll have our time.
You gov survey just asked me if I'd support an extension to the transition period or not and also who would i hold responsible if no deal was made government or eu?
Is the government getting twitchy and considering extending but checking public opinion 1st?
All through this pandemic there have been you gov questions asked about do you support a lockdown, masks, should uni students be kept at uni etc just before the government decides something new.
Anyone else do these surveys? I started about a year ago as i was sick of reading about survey results saying this or that about Brexit and wanted my opinion heard.
The navy is readying four ships - gunboat diplomacy springs to mind. It just seems to get more bizarre by the minute.
I’m not sure if anyone else is having the same issues but anything we order from outside UK has gone from a couple of days delivery time to weeks.
@kimbers that may be covid related, nowhere near as many passenger flights flying, up to 80% of these flights hold space is sold for cargo.
The navy is readying four ships
And the target audience is lapping it up...
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Has anybody noticed that the EU is kinda proposing extending the TP informally anyway - through a series smaller targeted initiatives e.g. letting UK truck drivers in without the permits for another six months, and something Mr Whittingdale said at a conference on Monday about the data adequacy assessment;
“To avoid a cliff edge, negotiators in London and Brussels are working on an interim solution. One option on the table is to temporarily wrap data flows up into the wider trade deal — for a period no longer than six months — to allow more time to make the adequacy assessment, according to one official close to the talks.”
They really are running rings around the UK Gov team - they can put in place small targeted measures to ease the impact of no trade deal arrangements on 1 January in their own territory. These are just two I have seen spoken about publically - I haven't got around to reading the EU mitigation plan yet (nest week)
Meanwhile UK customs are considering a beta test of a new customs IT system, less than two weeks before xmas.
But binners it’s always – in general – been that way since the dawn of time.
Here's a mad idea... how about it not being, for a change?
Those presently at the top of the pile probably haven't had this much proportional wealth since the Victorian era, and that appears to be what they want to take us back too.
life’s there to crack on with, get through each day the best you can.
The period since the start of lockdown has marked the greatest period of change (and creativity) in my whole life.
Living in a constant world of self-induced anger and stress will do nothing but depress and harm you
I'm sorry but as I look on this heist by an elite that will impoverish us all, literally and metaphorically, then I can't be anything but angry and depressed. Not least because it is all so easily avoidable and utterly and needlessly destructive
It's largely because of people's apathy that we're in this ridiculous situation in the first place.
@myti the yougov polls have nothing to do with Govt, they're just opinion pollsters who sell stats for newspaper headlines etc.
To the barricades Binners!
100% Binners.
They know they can do whatever they want, and apart from the odd awkward PMQT or protest outside parliament, in a few days it'll be a shrug of the shoulders.
Mustn't grumble.
Living in a constant world of self-induced anger and stress will do nothing but depress and harm you
Is it only me that sees responses like this and find them vaguely condescending. In the same way that you wouldn't look at someone who's broken a leg and tell them to turn their pain receptors down so it doesn't hurt as much, this isn't a 'rational' choice to be angry, but it's an entirely normal and expected one. It's like a bereavement, a major wronging, where anger is perfectly normal. Unlike a beareavement - every week there a chance to mitigate the loss (even reverse it) but we keep doubling down over and over again. My broken leg isn't feeling any better because every week someone kicks it again.
So great if you're wired in a way that enables you to 'deal with it' better than others. I know my anger won't do any good but right now I can't just dial it down and you telling me to makes me angrier still....because it could be dialled down if only those in charge weren't such a bunch of self serving ****ing ****s that they don't give a shit about the impact on the rest of us (even those that wanted it)
So I appreciate the advice and know it's well intentioned, but I'm ****ing livid right now and I'm going to stay livid for a while yet. And I'll fight anyone that tells me I can't be or shouldn't be 😉
100% theotherjonv, exactly how I feel, I'm also fuming at bigoted idiots that voted for this and then voted for Boris, I can tell you now were not all in this together, you can reap what you sowed because the coming shitstorm is going to hit many of the low paid Brexiteers the hardest (although of course it will still be someone else's fault and that makes me angrier still).
Is it only me that sees responses like this and find them vaguely condescending.
Absolutely not just you - it's a denial of your right to your feelings and thoughts.
@kimbers that may be covid related, nowhere near as many passenger flights flying, up to 80% of these flights hold space is sold for cargo.
Quite Possibly
Things have been slower but we've been back in work since September & it just seems to have all ground to a halt in the last 2 weeks
I'll bet the navy are chuffed to bits with their new role.
They're being made to look ridiculous and if they do actually have to do any policing they will end up being the poster boys for a preposterous little shitass country threatening fishermen with heavy weaponry. It is going to look brilliant in the world media.
This is where lies, bullshit, bluster, bluff and pumped up petty nationalism gets you...
For me it's the fact that we've gone from best deal ever to no deal and dreadful consequences and people are acting as if this is what they wanted all along.
It’s all right everyone! The German car makers have turned up!
https://twitter.com/ukvolkswagen/status/1336276412752343040?s=21
Oh!
The media is failing here, it needs to pin them to their earlier lies and make it clear that they will not be allowed to rephrase or reinterpret them to cover their dismal failures.
https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1336327841223385097
We'll get through it, but only in the same way you'd get through your house burning down. A lot of time, money and effort to try and get yourself back to the position you were before the fire. Meanwhile the person with the matches is telling you to be positive at least you'll get that new kitchen you wanted.
People who say we should just put up with shit are nearly as bad as the people who force the shit on us in the first place.
Over centuries we’ve worked out a form of democracy that protects us against the wilder swings of public opinion and here we are advocating that mob-rule is the only way to make decisions now.
But as Hunt has correctly identified, a temporary 2% margin 4 years ago doesn’t give anyone any mandate to make tough decisions. And that swings both ways now, once we’re out (and international pariahs for being dicks) we won’t get back in with 52% support for rejoining.
We have to make the best of this very small window to limit the damage. We could still end up staying in SM and CU if the leadership actually listened to the public opinion now.
And I repeat: No one voted for this.
And I repeat: No one voted for this.
I suggest you go read some comments on some newspaper sites. I think you'll find a lot of people voted for this and are still all for no deal.
They voted for no deal. We’re not going to get no deal as there is no such thing. Whatever we end up with will not have been voted for by anyone.
Here’s a mad idea… how about it not being, for a change?
Interesting comment given your opposition to any politician or commentator who actually wants to change things.
Has anybody noticed that the EU is kinda proposing extending the TP informally anyway
It was always going to happen for reasons I've already stated. There is too much money at stake on both sides to allow the disruption of trade to happen. At the end of the day January will come with a deal or without, and the nutters will get to say that the roof didn't fall in. All bollocks of course but the facts don't really matter, it's what they're able to sell to the voters. If remainers are waiting for supply chains to collapse to prove their point they'll be very disappointed.
But up until recently no deal wasn't going to happen and wasn't an option how can they have voted for it four years ago?
We’re not going to get no deal as there is no such thing
The common understanding of "no deal" is that no trade and security agreement is signed by the UK and EU to replace the privileges of EU membership. That's a thing and looks like happening as of 31/12.
Matthew Parris has written a piece in the Times this morning pointing out that this whole project is being driven by two men, Johnson and Gove, who never believed in any of this in the first place. They only did it to further their careers in what they thought would be a heroic plucky failure.
Apparently, there are literally only a couple of cabinet ministers who don't think this will be a complete disaster too. Rishi Sunak is *ing himself as he knows the hit the economy is about to take.
But so completely has the mainstream Tory party been infected with the UKIP mindset that none of them dare speak up. On doing the numbers there are now over 100 Tory MPs (including the new hardliners Boris himself recruited for the last intake for his own short-term interests) who will vote down ANY deal Johnson brings back
So this is why he's now saying that no deal is inevitable. It's because it is. Even with labours support, he knows he can't get anything through parliament as the Brexit ultras that he courted will vote it down
What a *ing way to run a country
Here’s a mad idea… how about it not being, for a change?
Those presently at the top of the pile probably haven’t had this much proportional wealth since the Victorian era, and that appears to be what they want to take us back too.
Oh the irony. Last person who stood on that platform got shot down by...
*checks notes*
...yup you. And still does just about every day. I thought all that talk about fair societys was just immature naive sixth form common room social bollocks? Or is the penny finally dropping now that your own comfortable existence is under threat and not just a few ignorant racist flat roofed pub inhabitants?
Nice of you to finally get on board, shame it took this long to actually get here.
There was no deal to be voted for four years ago unless I missed something. There was no proposed deal othe rthan "cake and eat it". So people voted for an imaginary deal i.e. no deal. I've had to point out to real life people that that they just voted "out" and that was it; they didn't vote for a deal, they voted "out" in the absence of a deal.
Here’s a mad idea… how about it not being, for a change?
Interesting comment given your opposition to any politician or commentator who actually wants to change things.
Mate, there's a world of difference between what you see as 'changing things' and what sane people do 😛
Oh christ! The sixth formers all here to derail another thread
Do you think we might possibly keep this one on topic instead of another spirit-crushingly tedious Jeremy Corbyn/socialist thwap-fest?
For everyone's benefit FFS!
Over centuries we’ve worked out a form of democracy that protects us against the wilder swings of public opinion and here we are advocating that mob-rule is the only way to make decisions now.
What a load of bollocks. We've never worked out anything to do with democracy. The only thing that has happened throughout history is that the rich and powerful have successfully held on to control of economy and the legislature to protect their interests. Every now and again they come under pressure and are forced to listen to the rabble, and brexit is one of those moments. The problem is not extremes of public opinion, it's that the public aren't listened to and don't have any real power.
Glad I can still have my regular portion of lobster, I was very worried that might be a casualty of a No Deal.
By coincidence (or not) lobster is readily available (to tourists at least) in Cuba, another isolated island nation. But they have sunshine. And music. And rum.
It’s largely because of people’s apathy that we’re in this ridiculous situation in the first place.
I'm not apathetic, or as the otherjonv might hint at elitist either. Maybe it's because I'm a born worrier I've been / am a paranoid stress-head and have spent years now trying to calm it down for my own health I'm dealing with it better - at least as I post today - that's all. Maybe its about applying how I learned to deal with my Sales role, by not focussing on the big number just taking the correct small steps to get an end maybe, and hey guess what, sometimes I lose deals and have to change my focus/effort.
I've had times, stressing in the Coronavirus thread nearly bring myself to tears in March thinking we are all doomed, and here, but I know living my life with a raging head, high blood pressure and cortisol levels is no good for me or my family. No, I don't want to leave Europe, no, I don't want to even more worse of than the single and reduced income family we already are, yes I'd love a Balearic holiday in August that I can afford, but I can do no more about those things than you now, or at voting time. Be angry by all means, but please don't drive yourself into a worsened health condition by the actions of some cock in Westminster.
Perhaps you could see it as an "ignorance is bliss" attitude, whereas in reality I'm focussing on my immediate world with one eye on some educated reading here and elsewhere filtering out the "what ifs" and "maybes" as well as Daily Mail wind ups for my own good.
When Brexit is unfortunately done, life may not be as we want it for some time, but there are plenty of other independent countries in this world that manage perfectly well. We will too, eventually.
Matthew Parris, writing in a Times article with a headline ‘We’re heading for a true believers’ Brexit’ said: “If you feel the EU has been holding Britain back then no-deal makes sense. But most of the cabinet know that isn’t true
“They don’t believe in it. The tragedy and the ignominy of this cabinet is they don’t even believe in it themselves. They don’t believe in the painless Brexit or the sunlit future they’ve promised to deliver.
“There is something infinitely depressing in the picture of a British cabinet avoiding the eyes of history even as they make it. Shame on the whole damn lot.
Can there be a sadder disgrace than for those in power to pursue a project they know will damage the nation they lead?
waiting for supply chains to collapse
Um… not sure what you make/sell, but attempts by (checks notes) everyone to get stocks of parts and supplies in before the end of year deadline has already collapsed supply chains.
Every now and again they come under pressure and are forced to listen to the rabble
Brexit isn’t a cause of “the rabble”… the public were asked to vote on EU membership because of a battle between two groups of immensely rich capitalists, with differing interests economically and politically to each other. We were asked to take sides (or sit it out and face the consequences). It wasn’t an uprising by the British voters, it was a game played out by public school boys with international backers, at our expense.
I gave up paying attention along time ago, but my interest was peaked when I read we are looking to take over the high seas once more in a hat tip to 1805.
So can someone bring me up to speed, why are we prepared to jeopardise every single aspect of the uk economy simply to protect our fishing waters? Does the uk fishing industry honestly contribute that much to our economy
Or is this entirely a (very misguided) point of principle?
As has been said, not really been paying attention to how this shit show has panned out so there is probably far more to it than this, but thought id check...
I’m not apathetic, or as the otherjonv might hint at elitist either. Maybe it’s because I’m a born worrier I’ve been / am a paranoid stress-head and have spent years now trying to calm it down for my own health I’m dealing with it better – at least as I post today – that’s all.
Very much this. You can't live your life worrying or being unduly angry about stuff you can't control. I learnt this lesson a long time ago after digging myself a very deep and angry hole about the state of the world, in particular about climate change and other related stuff. It didn't achieve much other than making me very depressed and anxious. Now I just look on with bewilderment and some amusement at the stupid and contradictory things we humans do, and brexit is a classic example of that.
Mmmm...military patrols of the seas to chase unarmed fishing boats away...what will that do to the export market for what the UK fishermen actually catch...where will it go, what tariffs will apply....I think someone mentioned that it may be good for increasing stocks in the short-term as the biggest market will have gone.
Can there be a sadder disgrace than for those in power to pursue a project they know will damage the nation they lead?
A good point. We don't have a leadership with the wherewithal or balls to stand up and say "**** the vote, its very bad for the country we are not doing it"
But then 52% of the British public - or likely more - would be moaning about dictatorships.
You know that "why get angry" thing?
Poll tax, Thatcher.
Seemed to work back then. Just a matter of.... timing.
So can someone bring me up to speed, why are we prepared to jeopardise every single aspect of the uk economy simply to protect our fishing waters? Does the uk fishing industry honestly contribute that much to our economy
No one really cares about the fish. It turns out though when we looked at the hand we'd been dealt after deciding to leave our cards included a recipe for Victoria Sponge, a christmas card, used, and one about fish. It's literally the only bargaining chip we have other than pretending we won't buy european stuff anymore.
I really don't get why we want to protect our waters.. We have already ascertained that as a population we don't even like the fish that are caught in it.
I don't think that i have never been so worried in my life, and I've had 50 odd years of one so far. I was a teenager in the 80's and was quite politically active, looking back to that time I never felt as so helpless as I do now.
I work as a sales engineer for a company that has a niche product selling to the rail industry all over the world. There are two other companies that manufacture a similar product to us. Margins on our products are so tight that we barely make 3% on the on the projects, it's all about turnover levels that keeps us in business. Our competitors are Europe based and both have a much lager share of the market.
We have a sister company in India which was originally set up to service the Asian market, but has increasingly been making product for the European market. Initially because capacity issues. During the last two years we have costed everything out of India. The UK cannot compete and I fear after 1st Jan the UK operation will be slowly wound down as more will be made in India. Any no deal tarif will be the last nail..
I might be lucky as I can do my job remotely. I was banking on this as I was hoping to relocate to France with my Wife after the kids have flown the nest in a year or two. After 1st Jan my rights as a european citizen are stripped and the longest I will be able remain in France is 90 days in a 6 month period.
My wife came to the UK 32 years ago, she feels let down. She was let down by my family who voted for this, we hardly speak to my family now. She wants to leave and return to France.
Our anxiety levels are through the roof we are both so angry with it all. Our hopes and dreams are in tatters..
In tatters because a bunch of lies that was sold on a catchy phrase... Reminds me of a Simpsons episode..
So can someone bring me up to speed, why are we prepared to jeopardise every single aspect of the uk economy simply to protect our fishing waters? Does the uk fishing industry honestly contribute that much to our economy
I think the actual figure is 0.01% of the British economy. And that's in a tariff free world where we export to the EU
The Tory party is hell bent on a No Deal Brexit and needs a reason to justify collapsing the talks. Fish is something that, while completely economically irrelevant, gets the gammons whipped up into a frenzy, and gets the French all hot under the coller too. Its the one area that guarantees a handy ruck which you can then blame for everything else.
It has also had the added bonus of Johnson being able to deploy some gunboats for a bit of macho military posturing. And its worked a treat. The gammons are literally delirious with joy. A no-deal Brexit and the Royal Navy patrolling the channel. It's like they've died and gone to heaven
I don’t think that i have never been so worried in my life, and I’ve had 50 odd years of one so far.
You missed the TV ads about how the Royal Observer Corps were going to monitor nuclear explosions when the Russians bombed us. And the weekly testing of the air raid sirens.
And I repeat: No one voted for this.
I suggest you go read some comments on some newspaper sites. I think you’ll find a lot of people voted for this and are still all for no deal.
I'd suggest that many of those who voted 'Leave' back in 2016 did so for a variety of reasons, many prompted by a general feelings of frustration, disenfranchisement and socio-economic FOMO that could probably be traced back to at least the Credit crunch a decade or so earlier, but probably much further back in time...
A lack of foresight and/or historical perspective made a slim majority of people do a rash thing, but what got us to this point is a pervasive and growing culture of never admitting a mistake or acknowledging a lack of understanding...
Those people commenting on click bait articles/FB/YT really didn't vote for this, if anything they were sold the opposite. But the only thing worse than crashing out with no deal, wrecking our economy and international relationships and deepening the divides between "have's and have-not's" is still admitting that you made a mistake and were taken in by a lie...
We're perhaps seeing a similar power-grabbing grift in the process of collapse on the other side of the Atlantic. That might encourage people to think the same could happen over here soon. But I think the sheer stubbornness of those who've been indoctrinated, coupled with aligned media coaching of the necessary doublethink is going to help Bozza and chums nudge no deal over the line...
Our competitors are Europe based and both have a much lager share of the market.
Worry not, after brexit we'll be able to slash wages and worker protections and undercut our EU competitors, and if that doesn't work we can go back to the good old days of protectionist govt subsidies propping up industry, and filling the pockets of monopolist corporate bosses with newly printed money.